all four of the new tier 3 BCs are getting significantly nerfed before they even get released. All four are being reduced from Recon-quality tanks down to T1 cruiser-quality tanks. More significantly, all four are also having their mass significantly increased; this should result in speed reductions of 250-300m/s across the board. More significantly than that, all of them are also receiving large fitting nerfs. The Naga is being hit the hardest, and is losing a low slot, two role bonuses, 40 grid, and 45 CPU. It will be a "dual-bonused" ship for weapons, keeping the hybrid range bonus and the torpedo velocity bonus. That drops it to the least impressive of the four.

The Talos is second-hardest hit, losing its drone bay and its 90% web, but gaining a tracking bonus and a speed increase. CPU and grid are dropping by 40 and 50, respectively. The Oracle is also being hit hard, losing its best-in-class tracking in favor of a cap usage bonus and seeing its range bonus traded for a damage bonus. It's also losing 50 CPU. It's easy to see where these three changes are coming from: someone clearly tried out flights of the newly-buffed destroyers on these three tier 3s... and the destroyers got themselves murdered. That's clearly unacceptable, so every one of these nerfs affects the ability of these ships to track and destroy smaller targets. If these ships are a rock aimed at the scissor of capital ships, CCP obviously wants to make sure that paper still covers rock.

The Tornado is least-affected of the four, only receiving a 30 CPU nerf, which will nevertheless make fitting it much harder.

Nice quote. Who is it?

Awesome, so the Naga is going from "potentially useful but overshadowed" to "******* worthless".

Seems Caldari aren't supposed to fly anything but the Falcon and Drake.

The Naga devblog will be a interesting read, given that even before the nerf it didn't look useful.

Who doesn't want to fly an oversized Merlin that looks like a vertical Charon?


Oh.

The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.

Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.

"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "

Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.

I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...

Dark, The quote was meant to be informative without opinions included

As for the four guns...I feel that if actually implemented will just ruin these ships.

And totally out of character for a Caldari Ship

The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.

Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.

Umm, how?
It was made to give pilots the choice between a decent hybrid and missile boat. Going with just one completely shafts people who trained for the other half of the Caldari lineup.

Now it's just awful at both.

The naga was awesome. Great dps, decentish tank according to the pyfa release. I was really looking forward to it. A decent fleet of the tier 3s would have made great anti cap/supercap ships. Now, a single mael would alpha these things without a second glance especially with a speed nerf, and with 4 guns, a drake will do more damage with way more tank. These won't be worth flying, since you can just spin them in hanger if you want to look at them.

Naga is still ugly as **** though, so many great caldari designs, they went with one of the worst.

So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?

So how many people have actually fitted and flown these boats?.... oh right there not released yet... but they are useless?

Assumptions are the mother of all.....

Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg

Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)

If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus...

Dan I did not mean my reply as a jab though now that I re-read it it comes off that way...sorry :) I tend to agree with you on the 4 guns thing...but look at the renderings...look at the hard points

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2791/3035/amarrbattlecruiser_wip.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2768/3014/Gallente_ship02.jpg

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/2765/3001/Minmatar_01.jpg

Just visually it looks like the Amarr one has 4 guns...the Gal 5 guns...and the Tornado 8?...I just don't see the hard-points on that last one. This could all change I'm sure in 2-3 months...but the renderings for sure on the Oracle look like it has 4 darn Dual Mega Pulses... :)

If they are 4 gun platforms lets hope they get a nice bonus...

I can see all 8 hardpoints on both the Talos (2 forward on either side of the hull in the circular area's, 2 mid way back down hull before the wings, 2 round areas on outer edge upper part of each wing, and 1 in top rear), and the Tornado (the tornado pic from the contest even shows where the 8 turrets are located).

But the oracle for sure only has 4 in the renders. The ONLY way it could get but 4 turret slots and keep up DPS wise with the others is with a 100% damage increase per turret (makign 4 hit like 8), maybe even up to 105-110% per turret.

Also in the render for the Naga, it has 8 very visible turret hardpoints on each side. 4 upper, 4 lower.

Who gives a ****? copy/pasta some more hardpoints on the bloody models.

Problem with these tier 3 cruisers is that their implementation does not really seem to fit their design goals.

I understood that the intent in designing these BCs was to provide subcaptial fleets with a punch which could at least give pause to supercaps, so that capital fleets would at least be more vulnerable with a subcap support fleet.


As a concept that sounds good.


However, implementation is a bit iffy - we are getting some cheap DPS platforms yes, but which fit more the bill of "supergankers" than anything else.

Why not give the Tier 3 BCs XL guns - that would make them useless against just about anything that's moving and is smaller than a moon but they would at least have an opportunity to become a thorn on the side of supercaps.

But then, I probably missed something in a devblog or one of the myriad of discussions going on around here

"Still, nerfing these ships was the right thing to do. As I've said already, they were too scary in their initial form. "

Forgot to include that part in the quote. We'll see when they actually get released.

I do agree though that all the renderings and models indicate that 3rd Tier BCs are intended to only field 4 guns...and it looks like 4 of the "smaller" Large guns...

Sisi models say you're wrong.

The split bonuses are silly. So is the fact that both Gallente and Caldari share hybrid weapons as a primary weapon system. Make the Gallente the Hybrid race (blasters and rails) and Caldari the Missile race. Bonus the ships accordingly.

..that should have been done long ago.

Tengu.

The split bonuses are silly. So is the fact that both Gallente and Caldari share hybrid weapons as a primary weapon system. Make the Gallente the Hybrid race (blasters and rails) and Caldari the Missile race. Bonus the ships accordingly.

Naga? Split weapon bonus trolololo. Ranking: 2/10
Oracle? Crappy cap bonus which is already a role bonus. HAH. However, S C O R C H. 5/10
Talos? LOL NO WEB BONUS. LOL NO DRONEBAY. Expect 5% more DPS than the Tornado with 10% of the range. 4/10
Tornado? Hey look, it's Minmatar. MAKE IT THE GREATEST OF ALL THE SHIPS. MINMATAR IS WINMATAR. RABBLE RABBLE. 9/10

Yes, I'm mad.

Naga:


I know it's still WIP, but the removal of explosion velocity/radius bonus on torps is a big letdown.

Why do we even want large hybrid optimal ranged bonus on Naga, when Rokh already has that and nobody uses it?

Either focus on being a complete missile boat or hybrid turret boat, not a poor mixture of both.

Posted: 2011.11.06 00:43

Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Awesome, so the Naga is going from "potentially useful but overshadowed" to "******* worthless".

Seems Caldari aren't supposed to fly anything but the Falcon and Drake.


Tengu.



Those can be killed by Tornado. 100% granted and easy has cake.




if your losing a tengu to a tornado your fitting sucks and you should quit pvp and go back to mining

Me: orbits Tornado at +/- 80km

Me: hits F1

Me: uses 100AB MN fit and orbits the Tornado for 1450m/s

Tornado: puts perfect and wrecking shots at this distance with no TP's on a 180m radius ship flying with transversal for 1450m/s

The tornado isn't too bad, in all honesty.

Can't speak for the other three, though.

That's not good. Capital killer my skinny, yellow Achura ass.

A straight 10% DPS boost, a 12% PG requirement reduction and -30% cap use are changes that address some of the biggest problems with the Rokh. I think we'll probably be seeing more of them in the future.

The tornado isn't too bad, in all honesty.

Can't speak for the other three, though.

A straight 10% DPS boost, a 12% PG requirement reduction and -30% cap use are changes that address some of the biggest problems with the Rokh. I think we'll probably be seeing more of them in the future.

who thought matar fanboy....
isnt too bad?? yeah sure...