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Nosferatu nerf?

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Tassi	Posted - 2006.02.14 09:39:00 - [1] Hi guys. I am considering to train recon cruisers to lvl 5 to get all out of the curse. This is bad if we will get a nosferatu nerf in the near future. What do you think? Will there be a swing of the nerfbat to the nosferatus any time soon? tass
Shin Ra	Posted - 2006.02.14 09:52:00 - [2] Its been on my list of expected things to nerf for a long time. Sadly, I feel it will be nerfed for the sake of it rather than for any game-breaking reason. However, if it is nerfed, you can expect recon cruisers to get bonuses which will enable them to be far superior in using them. For that reason, I would suggest you do train up for them if that is your thing.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.02.14 09:57:00 - [3] Originally by: Shin Ra Its been on my list of expected things to nerf for a long time. Sadly, I feel it will be nerfed for the sake of it rather than for any game-breaking reason. However, if it is nerfed, you can expect recon cruisers to get bonuses which will enable them to be far superior in using them. For that reason, I would suggest you do train up for them if that is your thing. Never thought of it that way , maybe the curse/pilgrim are the only ships that can "effectively" use the nosses after the nerf It is still ghay that you have to consider "nerfs" on how to place your skillpoints
Jorev	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:03:00 - [4] There's a vocal minority of roaming interceptor/HAC ganker pilots that are forcing this nerf. It will come, as this group was hugely successful lobbying for turret and missile nerfs before.
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:05:00 - [5] They'll be nerfed the same day warp stabs are. For the same reason. Whiners. The Eve Guild Wars Project!
Ante	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:17:00 - [6] Neither really need nerfing, however if they were to be nerfed one would hope that a stacking penalty would be the extent of it.
Tassi	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:19:00 - [7] A stacking penalty would totally ruin the curse/pilgrim :/
Ashurian	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:31:00 - [8] Edited by: Ashurian on 14/02/2006 10:32:33 i hate all little child whinning and demanding nerfs for all they dont like in the games. By the other side, if you like the curse try to get it, after all, maybe the nos will not be nerfed and if they finally are, at least the model skin of the ship is so sweet... :) sorry for my english
Anominity	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:35:00 - [9] I can't say what you should do, but i am definately going to train Recon Ships 5, the Curse and Pilgrim abolutely rock atm, and if i can enjoy that for any time, it will be better than no time :)
Alliaanna Dalaii	Posted - 2006.02.14 10:37:00 - [10] The missile nerf was needed It has nothing to do with whiners, Caldari where overpowered when comparing relevant Sp invested. NOS is not overpowered... but my moneys on it being nerfed anyway Alliaanna

Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.02.14 12:58:00 - [11] Nos are BADLY broken - they have zero opportunity cost for short ranged setups. They share this dsitinction with prescision cruise. Wanna argue prescision cruise are not brokenly powerful? (considering a Raven can one-volley an intercepor...) Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
DayVV4lkEr	Posted - 2006.02.14 12:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii The missile nerf was needed It has nothing to do with whiners, Caldari where overpowered when comparing relevant Sp invested. NOS is not overpowered... but my moneys on it being nerfed anyway Alliaanna If u see that from the side of the race that has drones they can use as weapons then u are right. they are not overpowered from this point of view. But take a look at ships that don't have any dronebay (or at least a very small one) ishtar vs. cerberus (ishtar best dronebay hac and cerberus no dronebay at all) guess who will win if the ishtar is in nosing range. 2 dominix one with NOS fitting and one with gun fitting, which one will win ??? NOS are sucking your cap dry trough no resistances and i would say that is somekind of overpowered.
Alliaanna Dalaii	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:10:00 - [13] Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii The missile nerf was needed It has nothing to do with whiners, Caldari where overpowered when comparing relevant Sp invested. NOS is not overpowered... but my moneys on it being nerfed anyway Alliaanna If u see that from the side of the race that has drones they can use as weapons then u are right. they are not overpowered from this point of view. But take a look at ships that don't have any dronebay (or at least a very small one) ishtar vs. cerberus (ishtar best dronebay hac and cerberus no dronebay at all) guess who will win if the ishtar is in nosing range. 2 dominix one with NOS fitting and one with gun fitting, which one will win ??? NOS are sucking your cap dry trough no resistances and i would say that is somekind of overpowered. Actually im a pure Amarr pilot But I do kinda of see your point, but 1... range. take for example the Cerb Vs Ishtar. If the cerb can stay out of 10km thats a number of highslots wasted on the Ish before the fights even begun. If there was anything that needs a slight adjustment id say it was Heavy NoS... not med/small. more to the point if you nerf medium NOS my Sacrilidge becomes a 100mill heap of junk (More so than it is now ) Alliaanna Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:19:00 - [14] Edited by: LWMaverick on 14/02/2006 13:19:37 I guess some ships will become overpowered if nosses are nerfed, ever thought of that? With great power, comes great responsibility.
MuadChef	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:36:00 - [15] The only reason people are demanding a nerf over nos, is because they feel that it is too dangerous to fly against. But this is simply not true. 3 examples. Point 1. Nossing Dom.. Biggest waste of money over 25k. U cant nos anyone, therefore ure only weapons are the drones.. Therefore only good for small close range engagements. Point 2: If an Apoc, Temp or any other bs is attacked by a frig, it only has very few lines of defense, one being a nos. So basically what ure saying is, nerf the nos, loose ure bs. Point 3: Nos nukes cap, so u cant tank, therfore u will die, this is a very valid point. But a jammer stops u targetting, so u cant do anything, u die.. So whilst on the subject lets nerf everything that someone else could use to kill you, stick I win buttons on ure ships and call it a day. its becoming a sad day, when we have to have things nerfed because people cant think "outside of the box".. Learn to adapt and you will be fine, we dont have to destroy gameplay becuase or people's lack of ability. P.S. Maya with regards to precision cruise, u cant nerf something becuase its doing its job..
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:39:00 - [16] It's not too powerful BS vs BS, no. That's not where I want the change. And the point is that NO module should allways be a clear choice because it has NO disadvantages. Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command
Ante	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:44:00 - [17] Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 14/02/2006 13:19:37 I guess some ships will become overpowered if nosses are nerfed, ever thought of that? What ships were you thinking of there?
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:48:00 - [18] Edited by: LWMaverick on 14/02/2006 13:53:01 Originally by: Ante Originally by: LWMaverick Edited by: LWMaverick on 14/02/2006 13:19:37 I guess some ships will become overpowered if nosses are nerfed, ever thought of that? What ships were you thinking of there? Mostly Hac's, T2 Bc's and so on (Especially my Absolution) Im just trying to set things in perspective.. Think about it.. Imo they could use a balance or somekind of skill training blah blah... but not a Nerf. /Mav With great power, comes great responsibility.
Nival	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Maya Rkell It's not too powerful BS vs BS, no. That's not where I want the change. And the point is that NO module should allways be a clear choice because it has NO disadvantages. They dont have a disadvantage? NOS tie up valuable high slots and reduce your overall firepower accordingly. Some ships are able to work around that (domi, phoon...) but some arent and are gimping themselves in fleet situations. Its a choice: either you fit for damage or you fit for attrition war, each has its own uses in different situations. Its not like NOS are some magic free module of insta i-win doom.
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2006.02.14 13:55:00 - [20] Those ships have a pretty large sig radius. Given my suggestion, the effect of a BS 100-energy nos on them would drop from 100 to ~80. 20% will still leave nos as one of the best anti-HAC weapons (and make neuts more attractive - they wouldn't be changed at all). Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command

Gal'tashec	Posted - 2006.02.14 14:21:00 - [21] About Nes Nerfs.. found a few test items in the RmR Export Data the other day http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=274124&page=5#144
Mimio	Posted - 2006.02.14 14:31:00 - [22] It will not be nerfed because it works perfectly.
Tinweasel	Posted - 2006.02.14 14:33:00 - [23] Why is it that people go completely nuts about smaller ships? Ohhhhhhh hes got a bigger, better equipped,more expensive ship, with larger weapons, and more everything than i do. I shouldnt ever have to worry about anything he can do to me. fairly soon newbies are gonna be issued a t3 battleship and have to work their way down to frigates.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.14 14:45:00 - [24] Originally by: Ante Neither really need nerfing, however if they were to be nerfed one would hope that a stacking penalty would be the extent of it. Nah. It's much more likely that they'll just get the equivalent of tracking/explosion radius. IMO the issue isn't that picking a Nos isn't a no-brainer - it's that picking a large Nos is a no-brainer, because it's as effective against frigates as it is against BS. Actually, you could argue that it's proportionately more effective against frigs, while still giving a large advantage against BS. You'll note that there are two types of module in the game: sized and unsized. Unsized modules have one set of fitting reqs, usually fairly low, and one magnitude of effect. Scramblers work equally well against all ships and can be used by all ships, for example. Sized modules, on the other hand, have varying fitting requirements and varying magnitudes of effect. A frigate can't use a BS turret, and a BS turret does far more damage than a frigate turret. So far, Nos work fine with the pattern - a frigate can't fit a BS Nos, and the BS Nos transfers way more energy than a frigate Nos. However, a BS turret is rubbish against a frig, under normal circumstances. If you want to hit frigs in your BS, you need frig or cruiser turrets, or some webbers or something. Torps are pretty weak against frigs - you need to use smaller missiles or painters. Large Nos, however, are as effective against frigs as they are against BS, and way more effective than small Nos, but frigates can only fit small nos. Is there an imbalance there? Maybe. Is there a huge inconsistency with the way all other sized modules work? Yes.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.02.14 16:30:00 - [25] Oh please... not another frigate can win a BS thread. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! [white]Jenny Spitfire podded me [:oop
Dexter Rast	Posted - 2006.02.14 16:35:00 - [26] make all nos 20km, small med and large add signature as with missiles on how much each one will drain, that way bs can mount small, medium or large nos fitting a heavy nos these days is a must for a bs pilot, that in itself tells you there is something wrong with it, barring that remove the modules from the game altogether, there starting to get on my t1ts anyhow --------------------------------------------- Please use a signature that conforms with the EVE-Online forum rules for signatures - Jacques'
Tribunal	Posted - 2006.02.14 16:53:00 - [27] Quote: fitting a heavy nos these days is a must for a bs pilot, that in itself tells you there is something wrong with it It is not a "must" have mod. It's use is very limited as it's range is very limited. Saying that a large amount of BS pilots use NOS then it must be broken is a wack coment. A large amount of BS pilots use armor reps, should we nerf those as well? How about sensor boosters? In fleet combat it is a "must", so should we nerf them as well? Originally by: Tinweasel fairly soon newbies are gonna be issued a t3 battleship and have to work their way down to frigates. QFT "We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers
Ephemeron	Posted - 2006.02.14 17:09:00 - [28] I'm a battleship pilot and I use heavy Nos all the time. I don't fly frigs at all, I fly HACs sometimes, not so much these days. I'm not afraid to admit that heavy nos is overpowered. I don't want it to become useless. I don't want frigs to become immune to it like they are to large guns. I do think the game balance would benefit from slight reduction in heavy nos effectiveness.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.02.14 17:32:00 - [29] Originally by: DayVV4lkEr Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii The missile nerf was needed It has nothing to do with whiners, Caldari where overpowered when comparing relevant Sp invested. NOS is not overpowered... but my moneys on it being nerfed anyway Alliaanna If u see that from the side of the race that has drones they can use as weapons then u are right. they are not overpowered from this point of view. But take a look at ships that don't have any dronebay (or at least a very small one) ishtar vs. cerberus (ishtar best dronebay hac and cerberus no dronebay at all) guess who will win if the ishtar is in nosing range. 2 dominix one with NOS fitting and one with gun fitting, which one will win ??? NOS are sucking your cap dry trough no resistances and i would say that is somekind of overpowered. I think your examples are illogical. The Cerebrus is clearly meant for ranged skirmishes. 40k + infact. As well as a Dominix with Nos vs Dominix w guns. Both have the same drone bay and Guns can get range. The NOS domi cannot compete at range and after the mid 20's range the highs on one domi are absolutely worthless. If you want to talk about NOS being broken I think you need to revise your scenario's. Infact what you are pointing out is that NOS vs Tackling gear seems broken. But this idea is a circular, and subjective debate since people can and do work around NOS to tackle and the risk vs reward debate also come sinto play. Also, since Tackling gear is not class based why should NOS efficiency be? In fact, I would say NOS, Smart Bombs AND tackling gear need to be looked into. Furthermore, I would say that if Smart Bombs and Tackling were fixed then NOS wouldn't seem to be as uber as people make it out to be. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.02.14 17:34:00 - [30] Originally by: Dexter Rast make all nos 20km, small med and large add signature as with missiles on how much each one will drain, that way bs can mount small, medium or large nos fitting a heavy nos these days is a must for a bs pilot, that in itself tells you there is something wrong with it, barring that remove the modules from the game altogether, there starting to get on my t1ts anyhow Fitting a scrambler and a web is a must for interceptor pilots... is that broken too? Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do



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