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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
FatBloke
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Posted - 2006.02.14 13:55:00 -
[1]
Given that we now have players with more than 50 million SPs, HACs in most systems, and even the alts these days are using covert ops and interceptors... is it worth considering a small 'bump' to starting characters skill points so that they are not thrown into the game like lambs to the slaughter
OR
is the fact that you start in a relatively useless ship, with no real abilities to use decent equipment one of the things that gives Eve its appeal?
Discuss |
Capsicum
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:01:00 -
[2]
Without wanting to dissuade discussion, this topic crops up weekly - and it's rarely constructive.
I'd urge people to be constructive or this will get locked quickly.
Thanks for listening!
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Duraeli
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:05:00 -
[3]
In short my response is no.
We all started at that same point, and I hardly think new players today have the under hand. When the rest of us started there were no avenues for help, everyone was in the same boat, and we had to work hard to get where a lot of us are today.
That said, you are hardly at a disadvantage against more skilled pilots. True, they may be able to fly the biggest and baddest ships in the game, but with a little tactical prowress you and your buddies can take them down just as easily as they would you in a 1v1 fight.
The only difference is, when you take down someone with 50m SP who's flying around in a Macharael it hurts them a LOT more.
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Persona non grata |
Swamp Zero
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:09:00 -
[4]
Agreed with above poster.
I'm a week old noob myself, but I feel like stuff are being handed to me by the game.
I really am able to make more than enough money for my needs, buy a lot of ships, do stuff. I feel like what I have really matters.
From what I gather, you didn't make money before as you do now. We 're having it easy in everything BUT skills.. and skills won't matter if you specialize in something and do it right.
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:29:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Capsicum
Without wanting to dissuade discussion, this topic crops up weekly - and it's rarely constructive.
I'd urge people to be constructive or this will get locked quickly.
Thanks for listening!
If it appears weekly, and is rarely constructive, then why allow it at all? Perhaps now more than ever this thread needs a permanent sticky entitled "Frequently Asked Questions: Read this FIRST", then get biblical on violators.
General discussion is rapidly losing what little usefulness it's managed to have recently. Isn't a bit of cleanup in order?
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Heritor
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:40:00 -
[6]
There was no 50mill sp characters around when i joined to ask advice and guidance. So infact they are better off.
I flew about for over a week not training anything because there ws nobody to ask 
Always where your seatbelt, its far harder for the aliens to abduct you! |
Righteous Fury
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:47:00 -
[7]
Back when I was a nublar, things were a lot harder then they are now. It took me three weeks to afford an Omen, three months to even break the 10 million isk mark.
Nowadays, noobs can earn 100 million in their first month. It's pretty ridiculous.
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Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:51:00 -
[8]
I can have 30mill skill point, and still be pwned by (OP) after a week of play. Why, because I have all my skillpoints in Science and Corp management.
Having a lot of skill points is not equal to be better in everything. Its imoprtant to stop comparing SP with XP in other MMO's. But that can be hard to begin with 
Answer to you leg-up suggestion, will be no from my point of view.
To your last statement, all noobs in every MMO start with useless equiptment. Differance is, that your still dangerous in EvE as a noob. 40 lvl 1 in WoW have absolutely NO chance agenst a lvl 40 (just to compare).
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Burlock Ironfist
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:51:00 -
[9]
eve has a very steap learning curve, do you want to make that even steaper by giving them more ships to learn how to equip / more types of modules they dont know what they do to learn?
if you start with nothign then you can learn the game bit by bit. if you start with lots of skill points then there is a even bigger chunk than now to have to lear in the first few weeks.
Directing TDOJ Traffic since 18/12/2005 |
Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.02.14 14:57:00 -
[10]
If you're going to give new players something, what does the existing playerbase get? Your ideas don't even bother to explore that middle-class of EVE players, the ones who are neither in 0.0 all the time or on their trial account flying a rookie ship. Suddenly we'd be wedged between newbies flush with power that we've tried to acquire through hard work, as well as the always dangerous 0.0 crowd.
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Emily Spankratchet
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:28:00 -
[11]
If I'd had a leg-up a year ago as a new player I would have missed out on a lot of the enjoyable and valuable learning experiences. No point getting things quickly if you don't understand how or why they work.
Of course, with my second account the waiting for things was a bit of a drag.
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Lyra VX
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:37:00 -
[12]
No, no and more no. You do not need to fly a Mothership to play Eve constructively and enjoyably. |
Doomed Predator
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Doomed Predator on 14/02/2006 15:45:48
Size is not all.A few well skilled frig pilots can take out a bs.Hell a ceprtor can take out a bc so new players can become real killers fast.
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:46:00 -
[14]
Tech 2 isnt even required to be effective in EVE, my Caracal and Ferox do just fine with their Tech1 modules.
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The Hooch
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:33:00 -
[15]
With all due respect to the original poster, you heart is right but...
Sink, or swim. The best part of Eve is that you gut it out and learn to exsist in a world of giants and ants. I am almost 2 years in this game and I can only now begin to fly where and when I please to, knowing that I can give as good as I get, also knowing that Eve is not a safe, warm and fuzzy place.
Run with the big dogs or stay on the porch with the other puppies in the box. You can grow fangs or stay in .5 and up space.
Harsh... but that is the reality of Eve.
Cheers
Hooch, Military and Political Guru, Peacenik, Flame Baiter, BoB Watcher, BoB Lover, BoB Hater, BoB Fanboi, *****um, Troll, Forum Warrior, Mister Star Trek, Captain Obvious, Carebear... |
Creslin
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:47:00 -
[16]
I think giving newbs the first 4-5 ranks of their T1 learning skills would be a good step honestly. its not so many skillpoints that it hurts middle vets, its not so few that it doesnt help(and it removes alot of the tedium of those initial months), and it doesnt really detract at all from the learning curve.. getting a better ship is already simple and easy with in like an hour of starting the game... other skills atleast offer a sense of progression so its not so boring.
I know i have had a few newb friends get discouraged and quit when they find out that they have to train basically 2 months worth of skills that dont really advance your character in a way you can see. Other skills like gunnery skills/trade/ssc and stuff does a good job in the early game of giving you a strong sense of progression and get people hooked so they dont need to be changed imo.
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Oosel
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:50:00 -
[17]
ive been here since day beta 4 yet for all that time in 0.0 i get my butt handed to me on a regular basis and even though im highly skilled you could get yourself into a capital ship probably quicker than me......
with specialisation now playing a big part in the game you would be suprised how many of us arent that happy at being stuck with attribs that we thought then were going to be of use in a science reverse engineering type of way so be lucky you can start now and pick better attribs....
skills play a part yes but actually knowing the game is what its all about
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Ed Gein
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:56:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ed Gein on 14/02/2006 16:57:47
When speaking strictly from a PVP stand point, more and more of the "noobs" are told to specialize from the get go, which most of the older players never really put much thought into. Don't get me wrong, there are some first day players very specialized, but most are a jack of all trades so to speak, simply because when you play a game like Eve, its very easy to want to do and try everything after 2 or 3 years of play. The new players coming in are almost immediately told to train learning skills, and specialize.
True, it takes a while for learning skills, but its almost good, because it gives the player time to learn about the game before hopping into a valuable ship and if they can't put up with some patience and waiting, they could get irrated with Eve anyway and shouldn't waste their time.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.02.14 17:51:00 -
[19]
I have an alt doing the learning skill grind right now. The fact that it's going to be a couple of dozen million skillpoints behind my main, did not discourage me from seeing that one day my alt will be useful. There will still be noobs joining EVE a year from now, and my alt can go own them. 
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Zirator
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Posted - 2006.02.14 18:02:00 -
[20]
Plain and simple no.
I started last year in september and with some good choices I'm allready flying around in 0.0 in AF's and Inties. Soon I'll be able to fly a BS as well with a descent skills. And I allready killed players solo that are more then one or two years old.
New players don't need any extra love, spend your skillpoints in the first few months well and you will be having fun in no time.
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Montague Zooma
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Posted - 2006.02.14 18:33:00 -
[21]
I started playing in July and I think things are fine. Sure there are plenty of highly skilled players around, but that was to be expected. There are also plenty of fellow noobs around, too.
It doesn't take all that long to develop useful skills...although it may take a good deal longer to figure out which ones are the best to concentrate on first.
I just wish it were made more obvious as to which starting attributes are the ones you most likely don't want to be too low at character creation....
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One noob. One corp. One complete waste of 1.6 million isk. |
Mallrat Extreme
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Posted - 2006.02.14 18:39:00 -
[22]
Eve is awesome precisely because new players can be useful right off the bat. All you need is Propulsion Jamming 1, High Speed Maneuvering 1, and your race's frigate skill, and you're tackling in a pvp gang. From there you have time to see how battles are coordinated and fought as you work on your learning skills, then after a few months your learning skills are done and you're ready to start skilling up to move up to combat frigates or cruisers.
There is no other game that makes new players as useful right from the start.
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Tutsunucann
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Posted - 2006.02.14 18:50:00 -
[23]
I'm also going to vote 'no'. I started in mid-december and am currently at 1.6 mill sp, yes there are a lot of ships I still can't fly, and YES training mostly the learning skills up front is quite boring and takes some Real-Life willpower. But there is plenty to do, try and learn about EVE in that time.
Catering to new players by handing them sp or better starting equipment might boost the new player base for awhile, BUT would have some major consequences:
1) You will end up with a larger percentage of immature, whiny, self-centered, short attention span players - exactly the sort that enjoy griefing others and tying up GM's with spurious complaints.
2) The older player base will hold ALL newer players in contempt for the 'handouts' they're getting. The social fabric of the game will suffer in all sorts of ways.
3) Much of EVE's gameplay will become 'devalued' - nobody, not even new players, will use frigates or cruisers because they'll already be much further on their way to that precious battleship and beyond. Worsening inflation is likely.
4) Older players will see the game 'going downhill', changing and not for the better, and start looking more actively for greener pastures. This happens naturally anyway, but if it passes beyond a certain threshold people will start leaving in droves because not enough of the people they have known and played with/against are left or actively playing.
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0August0
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:06:00 -
[24]
I have mixed emotions regarding this idea. While i do, as a 4 month player, feel sometimes that i've begun running a marathon several hours after the start of the race and that i'll never really catch up to those who began playing when the game was first released, i also understand that learning this game properly is a process that can be detrimental if short circuited.
After all if i were able to fly a HAC or a Titan from day one I seriously doubt this game would still hold my interest like it does after 4 months.
Perhaps the solution is to create areas where n00b players like myself can PvP against those with similar lifespans. Maybe something along the lines of the eve tournament held recently but divided into classes that reflect a players experience with the game.
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Regards,
August
Soldier of the Gooch |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: FatBloke
is the fact that you start in a relatively useless ship, with no real abilities to use decent equipment one of the things that gives Eve its appeal?
YES
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault |
Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:13:00 -
[26]
Ok, say for one moment that all that glue sniffin' finaly got to a CCP Devs head, and he were to implement a system where newbies get a boost in skillpoints.
Where would you draw the line?
At what point do you stop being new, and start being a veteran? I'm 5 months old and have over 6m Skillpoints, there are people who played EVE less than me and as a result have about half of that. Am I eligible for a skillpoint boost, or not?
What about a 2004.xx.xx guy? Yes he has 30 million Skillpoints, but he started a year after the game released. Shouldn't he get a boost too?
See how silly this idea is? It would never work in practice, because the terms 'newbie' and 'veteran' are just labels people give each other to make themselves feel better. You can't define either.
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Inactive as of 11-02-06. Still Whorum Foring though.
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Jentai Cylor
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Duraeli
In short my response is no.
We all started at that same point, and I hardly think new players today have the under hand. When the rest of us started there were no avenues for help, everyone was in the same boat, and we had to work hard to get where a lot of us are today.
That said, you are hardly at a disadvantage against more skilled pilots. True, they may be able to fly the biggest and baddest ships in the game, but with a little tactical prowress you and your buddies can take them down just as easily as they would you in a 1v1 fight.
The only difference is, when you take down someone with 50m SP who's flying around in a Macharael it hurts them a LOT more.
I beg to differ.
When people started playing (after beta) there was no major gap between players. Everyone was new an in the same boat. Yes new players have more readily availbale information then the vets did, but then again the vets already have that information now anyways.
And I would love to see a newb drop a 50m sp toon that wasnt afk. It is possible, but highly unlikely.
New players arent asking for instant vet potential, just something to help them at least be competative if they invest themselves. As it is, new players can look forward to mining, hauling, low end trading, or near zero profit ratting. It will be hard for EVE to retain the new blood when it becomes all to obvious they will need to repeat a boring littany of dull tasks for months while skills train.
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Prydeless
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:32:00 -
[28]
TO OP
your second statement is correct. It is EVE's appeal, go out and work hard, and you will be rewarded. You cant just join EVE and have a leg up against people who never got that, it creates a double standard.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jentai Cylor
We all started at that same point, and I hardly think new players today have the under
And I would love to see a newb drop a 50m sp toon that wasnt afk. It is possible, but highly unlikely.
i'd like to see anyone drop a 50mil SP toon, but caymus never undocks 
no real players have that many SP - i'm not sure how many SP caymus has now, but its probably near 50mil
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault |
Robert Fourier
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Posted - 2006.02.14 20:45:00 -
[30]
I guess I'll put in my two cents here. I'm pretty new to the game. I started on a trial a few weeks back, and decided to go ahead and subscribe. I've been pretty unfocused, trying a little of everything, but I'm having a lot of fun.
It's obvious that there are players whose power and resources are godlike in comparison to mine; however, I don't really see that as a problem. If I'm having fun it doesn't really matter that I'm not the biggest fish in the pond. In fact having to watch my step to avoid being "eaten" by the big fish kind of makes it more immersive for me. In a real world you don't just appear on the scene and suddenly become super powerful over night. Eve is a dangerous place for noobs and to me that makes it seem more real.
Now if your goal is to be super bad-assed in as short a time as possible I can see where the game could be frustrating. But if you're looking to have some fun and adventure and not worried about being bad, then (from my limited experience) this seems like a pretty good game.
To quote Neal Stephenson:
"Sometimes it's all right to be a little bad. To know
your limitations. Make do with what you've got."
Be patient, it's OK to just be a little bad.  In short, I don't think that noobs need a leg up right now.
http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~rollee/snowcrash.raven.quote
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