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Bosie
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Posted - 2006.02.15 22:12:00 -
[61]
I love my Eagle/Harpy yet when I PvP with a BS I use a Mega, why... because it's a railgun platform. Long ago I used to fly Raven in PvP but it just became an expensive and fruitless light show.
Give me a Caldari railgun BS and I will be very happy.
Bosie.
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errorist
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Posted - 2006.02.15 22:24:00 -
[62]
i startet out as caldari loving the missiles, but heard that turrets where the way to go in pvp,
and thats when i trained all these gunnery skills and such, then i find out, the moa sucks, the ferox sucks even worse, and scorp and raven dont have enough hardpoints
so i conluded that the only good caldari ship was the merlin/harpy/hawk :D
i would like to get a tier 3 railboat pls, preferably also a alternativ gallente one :D
If something is hard going, its not worth doing |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.15 22:31:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
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DayVV4lkEr
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Posted - 2006.02.15 22:39:00 -
[64]
Altough a Tier 3 Railboat would be lovely (would be a reason for me to train gunnery skills from med to large) i think the placeholder is just totally imbalanced.
Let's think they use the placeholder:
8 High Slots (7 Turret Hardpoints and 4 Launcher Hardpoints)
7 Med Slots
5 Low Slots
Now let's think they follow the route with the Moa/Eagel 5 % Shield Resitance and 10 % Optimal Range.
Ok the Highslots would be pretty clear, rail guns ftw! With a range of around 300 km.
But the Med-Slots are completly insane fitting a complet Shieldtank (better then the Raven's) or Jammers almost like a Scorpion with enough Low-Slots to armor tank it quite well.
The problem about the Caldari ships is that they are hard to balance. Shield-Tank items are med slot and so are jammers, that means u can almost get a complet shield tank and still sniper or for fleet fights almost a perfect Railscorp.
CCP should really think about that.
btw i'm caldari only pilot and i would love to see a railboat in game BUT i don't want it to be nerfed all over the place after it was realesed. if i train for a ship i'm at least expecting that the ship is still usefull when i finished skilling ...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.15 22:57:00 -
[65]
Edited by: j0sephine on 15/02/2006 22:58:11
"Ok the Highslots would be pretty clear, rail guns ftw! With a range of around 300 km.
But the Med-Slots are completly insane fitting a complet Shieldtank (better then the Raven's) or Jammers almost like a Scorpion with enough Low-Slots to armor tank it quite well."
You'd have essentially Raven with insta-damage but minus the insane ability to hit anything down to frigates at close ranges for huge damage, and with weak point of guns failing to track fast moving/close targets (like any other gunboat)
armour tank is questionable at best, since Caldari ships are routinely low on grid. this new ship might have enough grid to fit the turrets, but then you'd need to give up low slots to enhance the grid to mount the armour tank, which leaves it both with mediocre tank (not enough slots left) and weak damage (no damage mods) ... making it overall pretty balanced.
Not to mention the overlooked issue of cap drain for the railguns... Raven might tank like mofo with her cap-free missile launchers, but the rail ship is going to guzzle the cap roughly twice as fast as she does.
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Nero Scuro
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:01:00 -
[66]
Christ, 5% resists would be excellent. I would literally come if this made it into the game. Give it a 10% boost to shield boosting and 8 turret slots and I'd never fly another ship. Ever.
___
The world isn't going to end; we're not that lucky... |
Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:11:00 -
[67]
those of u saying 300km are incorrect. with a workable setup 250km optimal with the weakest ammo is possible. that is with t2 425mm and 2 tracking comps + 1 tracking enhancer all t2 ofcourse.
-------------------Sig-----------------------
Decrease blaster CPU useage
Decrease Hybrid cap useage
Balance all weapon systems
DO IT SOON |
DayVV4lkEr
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:11:00 -
[68]
Edited by: DayVV4lkEr on 15/02/2006 23:18:34
Edited by: DayVV4lkEr on 15/02/2006 23:13:31
Originally by: j0sephine
You'd have essentially Raven with insta-damage but minus the insane ability to hit anything down to frigates at close ranges for huge damage, and with weak point of guns failing to track fast moving/close targets (like any other gunboat)
in fleetbattels and during sniping sessions no problem (or a very low problem)
Originally by: j0sephine
armour tank is questionable at best, since Caldari ships are routinely low on grid. this new ship might have enough grid to fit the turrets, but then you'd need to give up low slots to enhance the grid to mount the armour tank, which leaves it both with mediocre tank (not enough slots left) and weak damage (no damage mods) ... making it overall pretty balanced.
Good point didn't think about that but anyway a shieldtank in meds should be possibel
Originally by: j0sephine
Not to mention the overlooked issue of cap drain for the railguns... Raven might tank like mofo with her cap-free missile launchers, but the rail ship is going to guzzle the cap roughly twice as fast as she does.
About the Cap thing.
if that fitting would be possibel you won't have much of a problem:
7 425 mm rails
1 empty high
1 Shield Boost amp
2/3 Invul Fields
1 XLarge Shield Booster
1 Cap Recharger
1/2 Tracking Comp
Lows full with PD II if needed otherwise maybe 1 or 2 damage mods.
i think that is a pretty good railboat for smaller fleets (fro larger fleets u might want to go more for range)
anyway that is arguabel till it hits TQ but even the idea of such a ship is unbelievabel great (for me as a caldari only pilot)
about that missing dmg bonus javelin ftw ?
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:20:00 -
[69]
Edited by: j0sephine on 15/02/2006 23:20:15
"in fleetbattels and during sniping sessions no problem (or a very low problem)"
Aye; i didn't mean this somehow would make this new ship sucky, but just pointing out it has a weakness which limits possible issue of "godmobile like Raven squared"
it's a very good gunship, but that's about it and it's good enough. ^^ (ECM on it would be hardly the bees knees also, due to lack of bonus to ECM performance... meaning at these long ranges it'd frequently fail. Shield tank in turn has hardly much impact in fleet battles, either. most likely you'd see the usual set of tracking / sensor boosting gear with couple extra mods)
"i think that is a pretty good railboat for smaller fleets (fro larger fleets u might want to go more for range)"
Aye, it looks like it can be a very nice ship. Just simply not to point where it'd require the calls for "omg nerf!" before it's even released on test ^^
(not like that's going to stop Porro from doing exactly that >>;;
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Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:24:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
Hit your any key.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:26:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
Hit your any key.
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DayVV4lkEr
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:28:00 -
[72]
the advantage of caldari ships in general might be that they can have more diffrent fittings then other races and in that way u don't know what u are facing.
i could even imagine the new caldari BS to be a good blaster boat but that is a thing that the exact stats have to tell later.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:29:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Cheechako
Edited by: Cheechako on 15/02/2006 22:08:19
So what you're saying Hippo is that it doesn't matter that the moa is a tier 3 cruiser, and the next logical progression is a tier 3 caldari rail BS just because the Moa sucks?
Wow that's an amazing arguement.
no, that wasn't it all.
most of my argument was not caldari focussed (their cruiser -> BS progression is different to all other races), and responses like this from people who read the OP and then 2 sentences of the other posts are why i have started a seperate thread for my viws - they can be read there. my post does fit in here, but it is possible for stupidity to cause problems when people apply context to distort meaning
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:30:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
i like it 
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:33:00 -
[75]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
i like it
I tried to think of a productive comment, but... well, you've read the thread, right? It's going places
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acolite12
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:36:00 -
[76]
When did CCP give out imfo on the new BSs?
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Ishen Villone
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:52:00 -
[77]
It makes a lot more sense, from both balance and "story" standpoints, to introduce ships that are role-fillers rather than just upgrades
Example: The Caldari Navy is finding out that the missile boat units are having trouble with long range sniper ships. The flight time for torpedos is a disadvantage when fighting at maximum range. A long range railboat would help counter this.
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Chi Prime
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Posted - 2006.02.15 23:55:00 -
[78]
Originally by: acolite12
When did CCP give out imfo on the new BSs?
They didn't. But that doesn't mean the information isn't available.
Linkage
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Cerridwehn Odessa
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Posted - 2006.02.16 00:17:00 -
[79]
I'm re-training my caldari skills mainly because of the new caldari rail bs coming. Tbh it would be silly to have another missle boat. of course, now I'm training all the missle skills up too.. but still.. caldari railgun boat.. oh yes.. makes me happy.
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DayVV4lkEr
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Posted - 2006.02.16 00:57:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Cerridwehn Odessa
I'm re-training my caldari skills mainly because of the new caldari rail bs coming. Tbh it would be silly to have another missle boat. of course, now I'm training all the missle skills up too.. but still.. caldari railgun boat.. oh yes.. makes me happy.
i tought about that too, but i came to the point that there has been a lot of stuf promised that never hit TQ or at least not in the way we were all told so i'm waiting till i see the final version. if it is really a rail bs i will train the skill, if not i have at least not wasted the skillpoints
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Kyozoku
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Posted - 2006.02.16 01:04:00 -
[81]
Originally by: The Wizz117
skilz
How old are you?
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Constantinee
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Posted - 2006.02.16 01:33:00 -
[82]
Originally by: j0sephine
armour tank is questionable at best, since Caldari ships are routinely low on grid. this new ship might have enough grid to fit the turrets, but then you'd need to give up low slots to enhance the grid to mount the armour tank, which leaves it both with mediocre tank (not enough slots left) and weak damage (no damage mods) ... making it overall pretty balanced.
Good point didn't think about that but anyway a shieldtank in meds should be possibel
Originally by: j0sephine
Not to mention the overlooked issue of cap drain for the railguns... Raven might tank like mofo with her cap-free missile launchers, but the rail ship is going to guzzle the cap roughly twice as fast as she does.
About the Cap thing.
if that fitting would be possibel you won't have much of a problem:
7 425 mm rails
1 empty high
1 Shield Boost amp
2/3 Invul Fields
1 XLarge Shield Booster
1 Cap Recharger
1/2 Tracking Comp
Lows full with PD II if needed otherwise maybe 1 or 2 damage mods.
i think that is a pretty good railboat for smaller fleets (fro larger fleets u might want to go more for range)
anyway that is arguabel till it hits TQ but even the idea of such a ship is unbelievabel great (for me as a caldari only pilot)
about that missing dmg bonus javelin ftw ?
Gah you fool if they make a rail boat sheild tanker the cap usage would be insane thats why there is the upped cap on the ship to make it fit and have enough cap torun it all the cap recharger should infact boost the recharge time from 900 sec to 800 sec indeed but i dont think there are enough low slots to fit some cpr all i know is ccp is in trouble with this one
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.16 01:39:00 -
[83]
Whoa man, sentences.
Anwyay.
5% reduction in cap needs for large hybrid turrets per level
5% reduction in cap needs for shield boosters per level
etc etc you take the point :P
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Gierling
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Posted - 2006.02.16 01:44:00 -
[84]
Why must I constantly remind everyone that there is more then one way to skin a cat.
You can come up with interesting ships within design philosophy that are NOT copies of other ships.
PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2006.02.16 01:52:00 -
[85]
I am fully behind making tier III BS have massive volley potential, like 8 turrets + bonuses even.
However, the necessary drawback should be 0m3 drone bay. This, in my view, makes everything extremely balanced.
"Just another fleet vessel I'll never need to use" is fine with me.
Eunoia: The persistent suspicion that the universe is secretly conspiring to quietly improve one's life. |
The Major
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Posted - 2006.02.16 02:34:00 -
[86]
Edited by: The Major on 16/02/2006 02:34:48
Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 15/02/2006 23:20:15
"in fleetbattels and during sniping sessions no problem (or a very low problem)"
Aye; i didn't mean this somehow would make this new ship sucky, but just pointing out it has a weakness which limits possible issue of "godmobile like Raven squared"
it's a very good gunship, but that's about it and it's good enough. ^^ (ECM on it would be hardly the bees knees also, due to lack of bonus to ECM performance... meaning at these long ranges it'd frequently fail. Shield tank in turn has hardly much impact in fleet battles, either. most likely you'd see the usual set of tracking / sensor boosting gear with couple extra mods)
"i think that is a pretty good railboat for smaller fleets (fro larger fleets u might want to go more for range)"
Aye, it looks like it can be a very nice ship. Just simply not to point where it'd require the calls for "omg nerf!" before it's even released on test ^^
(not like that's going to stop Porro from doing exactly that >>;;
ECM at anything over 80km on any ship not designed for it are wasted midslots. I heard stories of pilots fitting tracking disruptors to counter snipers at 250km. Clearly they hadn't heard of the 40km optimal on those things...
ANYWAY! If you are anything like me then when you started playing back in '03 you trained gunnery skills cos missiles sucked big time. Espechilly for ratting in belts and other npc type things. As such you got really good gunnery upto cruiser level and then just trained missile launchers 4 and then trained up for torpedoes to use the Raven.
Or trained large hybrids and got a Scorpion which at the time had rail bonuses and was good at damage dealing as well as everything it does now.
Because of this I actually have more skillpoints in drones than I do missiles.
Of course CCP then changed missiles and the pre-reqs for torps so you were forced to learn the rest of the missile skills to continue flying a Raven but stuck with Rail Platforms for anything smaller. It's not a bad thing but this is what happened.
Anybody joining near or after that point only trained missile skills for caldari ships because by now they were a worthwhile weapon system and on the path to a Raven.
Old timers like myself got stuck with a Scorpion who was rebalanced into an EW only platform that had to use missiles because it would never maintain cap firing it's turrets and running ECM modules anymore.
I got my last Raven blown up about 2 months ago. Been flying the Ferox almost exclusively ever since. I've been waiting 2 and a half years for a Caldari Railgun Battleship and I don't want anybody telling me "Caldari are the missile race and Gallente are the Hybrid race" ever again.
At least the players that join after Kali shall be brought up to give Rails the time and training they deserve.
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k starwind
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Posted - 2006.02.16 04:13:00 -
[87]
i cant wait for the tier 3 caldari BS.
i will finally be able to use 425mm ll on the ship they were supposed to be fitted on caldari 4tw
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.02.16 04:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Gierling
Why must I constantly remind everyone that there is more then one way to skin a cat.
because like weirda, no one ever listen to you 
__
Weirda
Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
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Weirda
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Posted - 2006.02.16 04:14:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Joerd Toastius
Originally by: Crellion
general caveat:
I've read the entire thread and I can't find this guy anywhere. Who are you talking to?
i like it
I tried to think of a productive comment, but... well, you've read the thread, right? It's going places
this whole part of the thread have weirda terribly confused! 
__
Weirda
Assault Ship deserve a 4th Bonus and More!
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