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Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
202
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Posted - 2013.11.13 19:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Nearly a month ago, we were promised a survey by the CSM to address the community concerns over the SOMER Blink issues: Link
At the time, it was stated that the list of questions was being finalized, and that the survey should be "completed in a few days". Now, I can understand how with all of the developments since then, things could have taken longer than expected, but frankly 29 days is more than a little ridiculous.
I'm still not altogether certain whether a survey is the appropriate response to the situation, but at least it would be a response! It seems that both the CSM and CCP have gone dark on this issue, and we have not had any kind of update in weeks, despite previous promises and encouragement that a solution would be reached.
So where are you on this CSM? Do you have any intention of living up to your previous promises? Or are you and CCP just hoping this will disappear? I think it is far past the time in which you owe the players you represent an update on the situation! Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2622
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Posted - 2013.11.14 19:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Here you go:
Q: Should CCP engage in repeatedly spawning valuable items for hand-picked player organisations, vouch unreservedly for their credibility, and turn a blind eye to years of pseudo-RMT behaviour, at the expense of their rivals, in a player driven sandbox environment?
[ ] Yes [ ] No CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
205
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Here you go:
Q: Should CCP engage in repeatedly spawning valuable items for hand-picked player organisations, vouch unreservedly for their credibility, and turn a blind eye to years of pseudo-RMT behaviour, at the expense of their rivals, in a player driven sandbox environment?
[ ] Yes [ ] No
Not that I don't love the survey - it's clear, concise, and effective - I was more interested in whether anyone on the CSM is even still paying attention to this issue.
I suppose I can take the silence so far as an answer. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Alphea Abbra
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
455
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
You might say that, since the behaviour that demanded a looking at has been set on hold or terminated, the need for such a survey is also terminated. If the survey was because the CSM wanted good numbers to tell CCP what they should - well...
I don't know if that is the reason why the survey hasn't come forward, but I could see it being exactly that. |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
219
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Posted - 2013.11.19 19:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Alphea Abbra wrote:You might say that, since the behaviour that demanded a looking at has been set on hold or terminated, the need for such a survey is also terminated. If the survey was because the CSM wanted good numbers to tell CCP what they should - well...
I don't know if that is the reason why the survey hasn't come forward, but I could see it being exactly that.
Then at the very least we deserve a response explaining that. If you're going to promise to do something, and then cancel it, you should inform those you had promised of the change and why it was necessary. To go completely silent on the matter is highly disrespectful, and breaks trust as the promise goes unfullfilled. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
The Legendary Soldier
Ore for Glory
315
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Posted - 2013.11.20 19:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
The CSM has made itself irrelevant.
Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corp's standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
230
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 19:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
From the formerly stickied thread on this subject:
Shai 'Hulud wrote:CCP trying to sweep it under the rug is an admission that the "vocal minority" is actually a subset of the majority. For them to make official announcements, do polls, etc., would be to shine a much brighter light on the issue than we can by posting on the forum.
CSM, I invite you to keep your word to the players you represent and prove whether this statement is true or false. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
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Posted - 2013.11.22 21:09:00 -
[8] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9c_KttvQPU |
Care Bear Flair
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.11.24 23:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hoping to hear something on this after the weekend. |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
206
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Posted - 2013.11.25 00:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP has been pretending that SOMERgate didn't happen for over a month now, so having a survey about it would be counter-productive towards that goal. Since the CSM has been working as CCP shills throughout the entire matter and then went silent when CCP did, I wouldn't expect anything from them either. |
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
449
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Posted - 2013.11.25 12:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Care Bear Flair wrote:Hoping to hear something on this after the weekend.
Which weekend, we were going to hear something by the first weekend it surfaced, then after Vegas.......... |
Care Bear Flair
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.11.26 15:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Still waiting... |
Care Bear Flair
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.11.28 00:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Any news on the survey(s)? |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2643
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 10:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
CSM? What's the CSM?
Is that the thing that CCP explicitly ignored when they decided to directly aid an ingame player ran business over all others with direct endorsements and unjustified claims about legitimacy? Who they deliberately didn't inform that they were going to hand hundreds of billions of isk to that in game business for it's own uses, and then directly hand even more as personal gifts?
Or is the csm the group of people who will think they have some "inner circle" access despite being deliberately ignored time and time again, and who wont want to be too critical lest they upset the applecart and potentially lose access to that "inner circle"?
oh its both i forgot |
Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
3186
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 22:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'm poking people about the survey. But I'd prefer the minutes get out first! Like any honest politician, "My door is always open, and my hand is always out" |
Frying Doom
3412
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 08:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I'm poking people about the survey. But I'd prefer the minutes get out first! Which ones the Summit you had months ago or the Summit you are not far off having Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
243
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 16:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I'm poking people about the survey. But I'd prefer the minutes get out first!
Who are you poking exactly? CCP or other CSM members? If CCP, why? Didn't you indicate that the CSM was going to conduct its own survey separate from CCP? If so, then why are you waiting for them to take action? If other CSM members, then please, let us know which of our representatives have been dragging their feet! This matter has gone on far beyond what is reasonable without a response, and we should be holding people accountable. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
215
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 18:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:I'm poking people about the survey. But I'd prefer the minutes get out first!
You mean the minutes that were going to give us a preview of Rubicon features? |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2702
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 20:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seriouspost: If CCP are so out of touch with Eve's founding principles that even at this point they need a survey to tell them what they did wrong in their dealings with Somer then things are much worse than I've assumed. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
2648
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 09:33:00 -
[20] - Quote
Is a "survey" even necessary?
Here, I'll tell you what every EVE player will say:
Giving gifts which have a direct ingame value (whether it's a huge chunk of isk from rarity, or if it's actually better than regular items) is unacceptable.
Giving an in-game, player ran organisation that competes with other in-game player organisations official (and unjustified) endorsements is unacceptable.
Giving an in-game, player ran organisation that competes with other in-game player organisations items to use in their competition against other organisations is unacceptable.
Allowing a player or player group to control who is allowed or not allowed to partake in the give aways for new content is unacceptable.
Deliberately hiding all of the above from the CSM is unacceptable.
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Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
247
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 18:03:00 -
[21] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Is a "survey" even necessary?
Is a survey necessary at this point? I would say no.
Is a response and an update on the situation necessary? Most definitely.
So how about it, Trebor? Who is blocking action on this? Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1374
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 21:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Read Trebor's post, those aren't the words of someone too terribly bothered by the whole survey thing, and for good reason. If CCP aren't interested in doing a survey, there's not much sense forcing the issue since they'd have to care about the answers enough to act for it to have any value to anyone.
This issue has pretty much hit take-it-or-leave-it territory. Either move on and hope CCP learned their lesson (or at the very least won't **** up this badly), or unsub. Your call. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 18:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Read Trebor's post, those aren't the words of someone too terribly bothered by the whole survey thing, and for good reason. If CCP aren't interested in doing a survey, there's not much sense forcing the issue since they'd have to care about the answers enough to act for it to have any value to anyone.
This issue has pretty much hit take-it-or-leave-it territory. Either move on and hope CCP learned their lesson (or at the very least won't **** up this badly), or unsub. Your call.
This isn't about CCP doing a survey, this is about the CSM's survey. One of the purposes of which, as I understood it, was to give the CSM the ammunition they felt they needed to push CCP to action. The survey itself may or may not be useful at this point, but this matter most certainly should not be dropped without so much as an explanation of what happened, and what will happen going forward.
Promises shold not be made idly; and I am not one to quietly go away and allow such promises to be forgotten. Either they need to be fulfilled, or those breaking them need to be held accountable. Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1375
|
Posted - 2013.12.06 21:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kirren D'marr wrote:This isn't about CCP doing a survey, this is about the CSM's survey. One of the purposes of which, as I understood it, was to give the CSM the ammunition they felt they needed to push CCP to action.
If any CSM member actually said this (I can't be bothered looking), they lied, plain and simple. The CSM has no actual leverage to deal with CCP directly. Best they can do is try to go above their heads and try to make an outside stir about it and deal with whatever consequences that has. Given how strongly the past 2 CSM's have valued their attaining actual codified access to CCP goings-on, yeah, shouldn't surprise you for a second that they didn't do that.
Here's something to help any further interactions with the CSM you may want: They're not player representatives anymore. They're volunteer consultants for CCP. When we vote anymore, that's all we're choosing, which sad sacks get to work for free this year. CCP likes it this way, and so long as players are willing to step up and be willing (hint: always), that's not going to change. The voter turnout for the next CSM could be literally zero votes, and all that would change is that CCP would just choose the reps themselves.
I'm not even trying to be all conspiratorial here, just trying to save you some time and save some CSM the awkward job of pretending that they're totally going to do something about this when they know deep down that even if they wanted to, they couldn't anyway. It's easier this way. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
Kirren D'marr
State Protectorate Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 20:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Snow Axe wrote:Kirren D'marr wrote:This isn't about CCP doing a survey, this is about the CSM's survey. One of the purposes of which, as I understood it, was to give the CSM the ammunition they felt they needed to push CCP to action. If any CSM member actually said this (I can't be bothered looking), they lied, plain and simple.
From here:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:* The reason for the surveys -- both CSMs and CCPs -- is to gather more data from more members of the community. CSM needs that data in order to make the best possible arguments on your behalf; "the data says" is a better argument than "the opinion of my ass is".
Shifting gears slightly, from earlier in the same thread:
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:We are currently working with CCP to finalize the list of survey questions. We hope this will be completed in a few days, and the forum surveys will go live as soon as possible thereafter. However, things may slip a bit because of EVE Vegas.
That was posted on October 16th. I think it's been a bit more than "a few days". So how is that survey coming? Is EVE Vegas still holding you up? Why a switch on/off? Because the new animation doesn't add anything to gameplay and it's graphically annoying. In other words, it's worse than bad: it's useless. Simple as that.-á-á-á-á-á - Kina Ayami |
Snow Axe
Atwater Capital
1376
|
Posted - 2013.12.09 20:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yep, they lied. Well, Trebor did. I'm sure you'll find out shortly that Trebor was in no way speaking for anyone else on the CSM that cares enough to even address this despite his language indicating otherwise.
Either way, that's the only part that might be important, not the survey. **** the survey, focus on the lie. When that gets you absolutely nowhere, you'll see what I was saying about the CSM no longer being player representatives. "Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread[" |
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