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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Jason Xado
Xado Industries
143
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Posted - 2013.11.16 04:39:00 -
[61] - Quote
This is huge. |
Pirmasis Sparagas
Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising
30
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:45:00 -
[62] - Quote
WHAT ABOUT SHUTTLES??? |
Lord Timelord
GETCO O X I D E
10
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Posted - 2013.11.16 06:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:My freighter alt, who does lots and lots of short warps, hates you.
Megumi Ohsawa wrote:If I understand correctly, the freighters will double the time spent on warp under 50AU which is an important part of the warps they are doing in empire. So the round trip of 35 jumps will not take 3 hours but 6 hours, in manual control, approximately.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Dolan wrote:Gotta go fast! Check out all the details behind the warp speed changes coming in EVE Online: Rubicon on November 19th here. So, if I have read correctly: Today: 1) My fast and rigged ships warp so fast that I get a timer preventing me from jumping in the next system until said timer is over. 2) My freigthers are boring and slow like molasses. After Rubicon: 1) My fast and rigged ships will warp faster so I'll have to wait longer at the next gate before the timer clears them to warp. 2) My freighters will become even more boring to fly.Is this change basically only aimed at who uses interceptors in deep null sec, in those 200 AU long systems?
CCP, the above posters have a valid point. Freighter and Jump Freighter Pilots are going to be pulling their hair out from adding EVEN MORE TIME needed to do hauling logistics over numerous jumps between regions when hauling goods. The rest of the ships look good, but the Tech 1 and Tech 2 Freighters are going to need some tweaking! |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
840
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Posted - 2013.11.16 07:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Slow freighters can only be good for the regional markets. Now everything is Jita + 5%.
Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Subrahmaya Chandrasekhar
The Three Musketeers
38
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Posted - 2013.11.16 07:29:00 -
[65] - Quote
Travel time test
Ordion Amarr Navy Testing Facilities moon 16 to Jita 4-4 (23 jumps) undocking to docked manual warp time in a Nightmare faction battleship with no special rigs or mods that affect warp, no implants that affect warp all relevant navigational skills at level 5 no gate delays or delays in manual warping*
Time on Tranquility = 28 minutes 12.3 seconds
Time on Sisi = 36 minutes 42.5 seconds
* ran through all the gates on Sisi before the test to make sure they were all online and there were no delays. The richest man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the least. |
Paxte Eriker
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.11.16 07:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
For those of us interested in the warp calculations can you say if the decel k values are exactly as listed or actually one third of the accel k values and are just rounded off by the spreadsheet formatting. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4669
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Posted - 2013.11.16 08:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Slow freighters can only be good for the regional markets. Now everything is Jita + 5%.
That's not due to freighters speed but to information propagation speed.
When you can instantly see the price of every trade hub in the game (by using EvE Central or one of many websites), you are instantly informed about the current price over there. A delay of 45 minutes to bring stock there vs former 30 minutes is not going to change anything.
Your objection would hold if ships had to pay fuel (the cost would affect stock), gate fees and whatever that in RL really plays a role on prices. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
840
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Posted - 2013.11.16 08:55:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Mashie Saldana wrote:Slow freighters can only be good for the regional markets. Now everything is Jita + 5%.
That's not due to freighters speed but to information propagation speed. When you can instantly see the price of every trade hub in the game (by using EvE Central or one of many websites), you are instantly informed about the current price over there. A delay of 45 minutes to bring stock there vs former 30 minutes is not going to change anything. Your objection would hold if ships had to pay fuel (the cost would affect stock), gate fees and whatever that in RL really plays a role on prices. Technically it may be more expensive per jump as I can't imagine Red Frog will keep their prices if the trips takes 50-100% longer.
Now I would love to see import/export fees being charged by the empires at their borders (and it would give us a proper smuggling profession at the same time). Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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El 1974
Freedom For Fantasy The Unthinkables
102
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Posted - 2013.11.16 09:52:00 -
[69] - Quote
Maximizing decelleration at 2 is not really a handsome solution. It results in the most important phase (decelleration) being the same for all fast ships. I'd rather see a more complex solution like: k=(2/A)-2 (making it vary between -0.5 and -1.75 for values between 1.36 and 8). Even better would be a variation where you trade some of the max warp speed of slower ships for a bit faster decelleration. At present it's mostly the decelleration making the difference between shipclasses, not the warp speed. |
Von Reichenbach
Maraque Enterprises SteRoid.
7
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Posted - 2013.11.16 11:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
I would like to weigh in on the impact on freighters.
I can only see this raising prices on everything. Hauling from the far reaches to Jita will take up to fifty percent longer, which in turn will lower the amount of shipments possible. As Jita prices are the standard all prices are set, and logistical prices "should" go up, distribution back out to the reaches will be impacted again.
I understand the intent of the change... but this is gonna hurt a lot more people than just the haulers. Lets hope the interceptor enjoy their "Ludicrous speed"... My alt most likely will stop hauling. That's ok, capsuleers don't like carebears anyways.
Von |
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Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1874
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Posted - 2013.11.16 11:41:00 -
[71] - Quote
The overall idea is to spread out the warp speed spectrum so that small ships warp significantly faster than big ships. I don't see anyone disagreeing with this general idea. Unfortunately due to physics constraints the spectrum can't be entirely shifted downwards. Therefore large ships have to warp slower than now. EVE isn't built on the fact that it takes X minutes to get a freighter from Jita to Amarr. So what if it takes X*1.5 now?
If anything, the freighter change specifically encourages outsourcing hauling to 3rd party companies, which promotes player interaction.
I fly freighters, JFs and caps frequently and I am fine with losing a little for a change that will benefit the whole game. |
Cass Lie
State War Academy Caldari State
89
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Posted - 2013.11.16 11:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote: Technically it may be more expensive per jump as I can't imagine Red Frog will keep their prices if the trips takes 50-100% longer.
Now I would love to see import/export fees being charged by the empires at their borders (and it would give us a proper smuggling profession at the same time).
This is a great idea actually. A very slight tax on imported goods on a high sec - high sec border, lower or no tax on a low (null) - high entrance. Would cause a lot of uproar, but would also be really cool. |
Sgt Oddbodge
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
As a freughter pilot i now spend now much of my time looking at the wormhole effect as it is.
My route is mainly 30 jumps of 20-40 au's per jump with a few 50+ au jumps thrown in.
If i read the change correctly correctly my freighter will now warp at 1.36 and take 78-100 secs per jump, while the old took 55-95 secs per jump.
Which is 23-5 seconds per jump added.
You gave 3 solutions to increaceing your warp speed.
1. Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs whih cant go on a freigter. 2. Use a Strategic Cruiser module which cant go on a freighter. 3. Plug in an implant ... may do usefull depending on which slot it is on and what i already have in that slot.
If i choose the implant option then my warp speed changes from 1.36 to 2.17 (60% increace iirc) whch places it on your data table between BS and T2 BS range. i will ignore the low percentage implant already available.
This will allow my warp in about the same time as i currently do before this change.
While the change will allow more price fluctuation between regions, it will also make jita even more powerfull as a go to place. If that is possible.
Please change freighter and JF to be usable as a freighter in the time available for people to play.
For any freighter pilot who spend too long in warp, this change will convert eve online into "watch futurama's hypnotoad" hyperspace effect.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2523
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:The overall idea is to spread out the warp speed spectrum so that small ships warp significantly faster than big ships. I don't see anyone disagreeing with this general idea. Unfortunately due to physics constraints the spectrum can't be entirely shifted downwards. Therefore large ships have to warp slower than now. EVE isn't built on the fact that it takes X minutes to get a freighter from Jita to Amarr. So what if it takes X*1.5 now?
If anything, the freighter change specifically encourages outsourcing hauling to 3rd party companies, which promotes player interaction.
I fly freighters, JFs and caps frequently and I am fine with losing a little for a change that will benefit the whole game.
You losing a little when freighting may take twice as long? Do you even know someone who's got a life beyond playing EVE?
These changes mean that hisec second class players will be forced to pay for the privilege to not waste their precious leisure time just moving stuff from A to B. Hauling yourself is a non-option if you used to spend a whole gameplay session hauling and fancy to not spend two days doing what you used to do in one day.
Taking a terrible feature and making it worst is not good game design. But then, this is CCP. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2523
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:05:00 -
[75] - Quote
Sgt Oddbodge wrote:(...)
Please change freighter and JF to be usable as a freighter in the time available for people to play. (...)
If you don't second-job EVE, then you're playing it wrong.
The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
marly cortez
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
31
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:06:00 -
[76] - Quote
I can see a lot of Ratting Carriers, Marauders and Mining Gear coming on the market cheap very shortly followed by a drop in membership, Way to go CCP. |
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc. Disavowed.
51
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Posted - 2013.11.16 12:46:00 -
[77] - Quote
Maybe a stupid question but does the autopilot (who many pilots use as a way to plan the fastest route) now take into account the ranges between stargates when setting a route? |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
412
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Posted - 2013.11.16 15:52:00 -
[78] - Quote
I understand all the mixed reactions, especially when your favorite ships are getting a bit slower, but I think that this adds a lot more realism and is probably long overdue... |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2525
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:00:00 -
[79] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:I understand all the mixed reactions, especially when your favorite ships are getting a bit slower, but I think that this adds a lot more realism and is probably long overdue...
Want realism? Let me light a cyno above Jita 4-4. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
284
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Posted - 2013.11.16 19:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Red Frog Rufen wrote:
which required 6b and a whole lot of other skill useless to high-sec traveling.
JF are not faster in warp than freighter, they only align faster.
They are faster. If my memory does not fail a freigther goes at 0.7 and a JF at 0.75 or so.
Your memory is failing you! :)
they are both at 0.75 wihtout implants.
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Red Frog Rufen
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
284
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Posted - 2013.11.16 19:36:00 -
[81] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
When you can instantly see the price of every trade hub in the game (by using EvE Central or one of many websites), you are instantly informed about the current price over there. A delay of 45 minutes to bring stock there vs former 30 minutes is not going to change anything.
Your objection would hold if ships had to pay fuel (the cost would affect stock), gate fees and whatever that in RL really plays a role on prices.
Technically it may be more expensive per jump as I can't imagine Red Frog will keep their prices if the trips takes 50-100% longer. .
I can indeed confirm that you can expect a raise up to 50% coming with Rubicon. It will be discussed within the directors soon.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4672
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Posted - 2013.11.16 19:59:00 -
[82] - Quote
Maul555 wrote:I understand all the mixed reactions, especially when your favorite ships are getting a bit slower, but I think that this adds a lot more realism and is probably long overdue...
Please tell me how's realistic to:
- Today get to next gate on inty / cov ops so fast I get a timer and have to wait some seconds at the gate, vulnerable and all.
- Tomorrow get to next gate faster, have to wait longer due to the same timer and so waste the same time and be more vulnerable and stuff. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Kazu'ul
OMG PWNAGE
9
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
xttz wrote:
Also have you considered giving Warp Core Stabilisers a small bonus to warp speed? Between 1-4% depending on meta level would be reasonable.
This makes an amazing amount of sense. Can anyone find broken in it? |
Stridsflygplan
Tigers in the Snow Nyratic
72
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:55:00 -
[84] - Quote
I looked at the new warp speed and also looked at the rigs that improves warp speed. (Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I and II) The calibration cost of these rigs need to be increased from 50 to 125 on T1 and from 75 to 150 on T2 so that Tech 1 ships cant have a higher warp speed then there T2 counterparts. Right now its not really Revenant and since T2 are getting a warp nerf also, HACs for example 3.75 to 3.3 this become noticeable. Since T1 have 3 rigs slots a cruiser with triple Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I will go faster (3x1.2x1.2x1,2 = 5,18AU/s) then a HAC with dual Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II (3.3x1.25x1.25 = 5,16AU/s) and with dual Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer I (3.3x1.2x1.2 = 4,75AU/s). With the calibration fix T1 ships will only be able to fit 2 of these rigs like just like T2 ships. Have CCP Fossie and CCP Masterplan taking this into account otherwise I hope you read this Or do we want T1 ships like Cynabal to warp faster then HACs? |
Habanera L'amour
Heaven's Harvesters LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote: Those are base numbers for each ship class. If you need to go even faster, then you have a few options:
Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer rigs will increase a ship's warp speed, at the expense of CPU output Use a Strategic Cruiser - some of the subsystem options provide a boost to warp speed Plug in an implant - the new Ghost sites coming in Rubicon might have something interesting for you...
I quess since the Freigters will be damn slow after the patch, you will make them able to fit these new rigs? |
thowlimer
Roprocor Ltd
4
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:53:00 -
[86] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Red Frog Rufen wrote:When are we going to see some new freighter class? (a faster version, and a stronger version would be nice) There are TII freighters already which are both faster and more durable.
Actually T2 freighter have the same(0.75 AU/s) max warp speed as T1 freighters, they do have more durability and better agility and they are faster if you need to slowboat them to a gate if you for some reason didnt land within range, but the actual warp is the same for t1 and t2. |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
181
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:24:00 -
[87] - Quote
The One Huge difference I see (and that no one has mentioned!) is the nerf to the "Fast industrial" which was one of the fastest ships in the game .
The Crane (prowler, viator, prorator ) warped at 9. AU and fit with intertial stabalizers and max nav skills aligned nearly as quickly as a frigate.
Those "blockade runners" kept up with the "slow intercepters" and they had at least a few second advantage over T1 frigates and a significant advantage over destroyers.. the ones that can most easily suicide gank them. They also had a speed advantage on T2 asault frigates and bombers.
Now Yes the Blockade runner is a heavier ship.. yet it is a T2 ship with its very name suggesting that great expense has been put into it's mobilty.
.. . with a 100 million hull verse a 500k frigate hull or a 1.5 destroyer hull.. all that speed didn't come for free... and its the top warp speed that we're really talking about which seems more tech based that weight based (acceleration could be harder to over comes) Of course the "physics" are arbitrary.. just wanted to point out the "top warp speed" aspect.
it was that "top warp speed" un-related to acceleration that gave the blockade runners their special T2 trait.
I really think that given the cost the Blockade runners should at least keep up with the bombers and intradictors even if all interceptors (even the attack ones) are now faster than them. Their T2 cost should let them keep up with the T2 in warp speed and exceed the T1 max warp speeds. (that would still be a nerf for the blockade runners as they were faster than those t2 assault frigates and dictors in the past) . |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
181
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
Delete AAAAH BR means Blockade Runner ! lol . |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
181
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Posted - 2013.11.17 21:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:The overall idea is to spread out the warp speed spectrum so that small ships warp significantly faster than big ships. I don't see anyone disagreeing with this general idea. Unfortunately due to physics constraints the spectrum can't be entirely shifted downwards. Therefore large ships have to warp slower than now. EVE isn't built on the fact that it takes X minutes to get a freighter from Jita to Amarr. So what if it takes X*1.5 now?
If anything, the freighter change specifically encourages outsourcing hauling to 3rd party companies, which promotes player interaction.
I fly freighters, JFs and caps frequently and I am fine with losing a little for a change that will benefit the whole game. You losing a little when freighting may take twice as long? Do you even know someone who's got a life beyond playing EVE? These changes mean that hisec second class players will be forced to pay for the privilege to not waste their precious leisure time just moving stuff from A to B. Hauling yourself is a non-option if you used to spend a whole gameplay session hauling and fancy to not spend two days doing what you used to do in one day. Taking a terrible feature and making it worst is not good game design. But then, this is CCP.
There are two ideas at play :
The Big ships vs small ships makes sense relative to "acceleration" and "deceleration" to the extent we want Realism (as others have said. the game is an abstraction with its own arbitrary rules designed for fun game play so take Realism with a grain of salt)
High tech, expensive ships can pay for the best "warp drive engines" ... which dictate the speed while in warp .. which is not related to the aligning and the size/weight (or in this world of made-up physics, it does not need to be)
Giver the huge expense in building a freighter, I'd think they could include special warp drives that had them warping the speed of a standard industrial/cruiser yet still have the acceleration and deceleration factors of Cap ships. That would split the difference somewhat and at least make the long jumps significantly shorter to keep you from washing your car in 3 minute fragments running back and forth between jumps. . |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2539
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Posted - 2013.11.17 22:46:00 -
[90] - Quote
Diomedes Calypso wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:The overall idea is to spread out the warp speed spectrum so that small ships warp significantly faster than big ships. I don't see anyone disagreeing with this general idea. Unfortunately due to physics constraints the spectrum can't be entirely shifted downwards. Therefore large ships have to warp slower than now. EVE isn't built on the fact that it takes X minutes to get a freighter from Jita to Amarr. So what if it takes X*1.5 now?
If anything, the freighter change specifically encourages outsourcing hauling to 3rd party companies, which promotes player interaction.
I fly freighters, JFs and caps frequently and I am fine with losing a little for a change that will benefit the whole game. You losing a little when freighting may take twice as long? Do you even know someone who's got a life beyond playing EVE? These changes mean that hisec second class players will be forced to pay for the privilege to not waste their precious leisure time just moving stuff from A to B. Hauling yourself is a non-option if you used to spend a whole gameplay session hauling and fancy to not spend two days doing what you used to do in one day. Taking a terrible feature and making it worst is not good game design. But then, this is CCP. There are two ideas at play : The Big ships vs small ships makes sense relative to "acceleration" and "deceleration" to the extent we want Realism (as others have said. the game is an abstraction with its own arbitrary rules designed for fun game play so take Realism with a grain of salt)High tech, expensive ships can pay for the best "warp drive engines" ... which dictate the speed while in warp .. which is not related to the aligning and the size/weight (or in this world of made-up physics, it does not need to be)Given the huge expense in building a freighter, I'd think they could include special warp drives that had them warping the speed of a standard industrial/cruiser yet still have the acceleration and deceleration factors of Cap ships. That would split the difference somewhat and at least make the long jumps significantly shorter to keep you from washing your car in 3 minute fragments running back and forth between jumps. Realism again : If you needed an "excuse" of why expensive freighters went quicker than expensive Cap ships or BS when in full warp.. you could surmise that the Anti-matter propulsion systems of the freighters made guns and launchers and repair systems malfunction. Freighters lack of Fittings does make them a unique ship that could mean the abilty to use a unique propulsion system.
If I had to fly the spaceship equivalent of a pregnant whale, I would use vectorizable(?) engines and warp drive. Align the warp drive, spin the engines in the right direction and accelerate while you slowly and painfully align the hull itself -doesn't matters wether you jump sideways or backwards as long as the warp dirve it's aligned and the engines move the hull in the right direction.
Actually I would just make round (circular) freighter hulls so they didn't had a "front" or an "aft" and could be dragged in whatever direction was needed.
But then, that would break EVE art's premise the "shape is the function" and worst of all, it would make sense, which is forbidden in a company that takes a PITA feature and makes it even worst because of aesthetics.
I mean, CCP's attitude is to never let a potential issue make them change direction: once they've decided to make painfully slow ships even more painfully slower, the issue is to convince themselves that it is a good idea, rather than re-evaluate and ask the players what do they think about doubling the travel time of their freighters for a mere design whim.
Give it up? Never! Question it? Never! Change course? Never!
And so another piece of terrible design is introduced. But don't worry: by 2017 CCP Masterplan will no longer work at CCP, the new guys will agree that post-Rubicon warp speeds were stupid and will give you back the current speeds. The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
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