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Attribute remap

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ztarpope Audeles Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille 0	Posted - 2011.11.04 08:25:00 - [1] - Quote Please, remove the stupid time limit for attribute remaps. Instead have a fee for remapping attributes. For example, - 1st remap within a month 5 mil isk - 2 nd remap within a month 50 mil isk - 3 rd remap to unlimited remaps within a month 250 mil isk - If left unchanged for a period of a month then it's back to the basic fee 5 mil isk This is a suggestion and i think it will work without anything being unbalanced and gives ppl a chance to adjust attributes to better fit training of skillpoints. Why having a stupid year time limit???? It's not even sure ppl stays a year in the game if they made a mistake during th remap allowed. Btw. This is how it works in WoW for example regarding talent tree. What do other think of this?
Tynian Erath APEX ARDENT COALITION NEM3SIS. 1	Posted - 2011.11.04 08:39:00 - [2] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Btw. This is how it works in WoW for example regarding talent tree. Good go back to WoW then.
ztarpope Audeles Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille 0	Posted - 2011.11.04 08:51:00 - [3] - Quote Tynian Erath wrote: ztarpope Audeles wrote: Btw. This is how it works in WoW for example regarding talent tree. Good go back to WoW then. Ok, that's your opinion. Recommend players to start playing other games, and yes there are a game coming soon that i maybe start playing. Eve are unbalanced as it is if you're new so i guess all veterans should continue play Eve and not letting new players in to their territory. Btw, Thx for your mature opinion!
Shivus Tao Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild 7	Posted - 2011.11.04 09:47:00 - [4] - Quote If we could remap any more than once a year, or at the absolute most once every 6 months, ccp may as well remove attributes because people could just pay up every month or so to render attributes meaningless anyway. There was a time when we had no remaps, be thankful we can remap once a year. At this point 1 year isn't even long enough. I can remap in April, but have enough perc/will skills on the list to easily take me into the fall or even winter.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1171	Posted - 2011.11.04 14:22:00 - [5] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Please, remove the stupid time limit for attribute remaps. No. It's a very sensible limit. You plan ahead, and you stand by your choice. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 31	Posted - 2011.11.04 15:25:00 - [6] - Quote No - the system as it is right now is actually good in that it rewards strategic planning for character development rather than just "flavour of the month" training. The decision making in character development system has already been simplified (and actually that was a good thing long term as it removed a nasty little barrier to entry for new pilots). ztarpope Audeles wrote: Eve are unbalanced as it is if you're new so i guess all veterans should continue play Eve and not letting new players in to their territory. Btw, Thx for your mature opinion! I think you fail to realise that your proposed system would not benefit new players - it would benefit players who can drop 250 million ISK at the drop of a hat if they so choose to. (Though in all fairness, most of the ones I know who have that kind of ISK also know how to plan ahead). One of the things which I love about EVE is that it is so friendly to new players relative to older pilots. A two week old pilot who's figured out which way ships fly can already be an asset to a corp. In most other MMO's until said pilot has developed to "endgame" level he is nothing.
rodyas The Scope Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2011.11.04 17:08:00 - [7] - Quote I dont know I really dont like the easy to be an asset early in EVE. In WoW if ya wanted to join a raid, just go healer or some other class ya didnt want to play then you are an asset to the corp/guild and can join. Reminds me of that too much. Really didnt like frigs early tbh, mostly noticed alot of older players did. I wanted cruiser and getting into bigger ships too much. So yeah if I dont play what I want to then yeah I am an "asset" early on. If lower skills maybe some bitching out and told what to train as well. Just fair warning and such.
Will Strafe Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2011.11.05 11:04:00 - [8] - Quote I dont think it's a bad idea, Eve could really use a money sink. So if a remap was priced at 500 million, or maybe just a flatout Plex (won't be a moneysink if it costs a plex, or is a manufacturable though) . People would spend some of those billions they have hoarded. And if you look at it, someone who remaps once with an Evemon plan, and someone who remaps 10 times following the same plan, The latter dude doesn't get a benefit the other guy can't compete with. It won't let him "pay to win", to do remaps. And yet at the same time, it would be an attractive option.
Shivus Tao Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild 7	Posted - 2011.11.05 11:49:00 - [9] - Quote I sincerely doubt people would spend that much to remap regularly. Older players have planned out skill queues for at least a year at a time. The optimal target for purchasable remaps would be new players since they literally have to train everything, they don't have that kind of money to be throwing around, and it sets a poor precedent. Isk can buy time through plexes. Adding this would also give isk the power to speed up time through fine tuning attributes. Eve needs a few more money sinks yes, but the money sinks shouldn't come in the form of character enhancement. Since plex and isk are freely interchangeable it sets up the pay to win dynamic everyone wants to avoid.
Will Strafe Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2011.11.05 12:17:00 - [10] - Quote Shivus Tao wrote: Since plex and isk are freely interchangeable it sets up the pay to win dynamic everyone wants to avoid. If thats your argument, then everything which can be bought with ISK is pay to win. Faction gear? Pay to win, for example.
Will Strafe Caldari Provisions Caldari State 6	Posted - 2011.11.05 12:25:00 - [11] - Quote And I don't think remaps are only for new guys and that they particularly need it. Infact a think a new guy can come along way with just a single remap. However he specs his stats, he will be finishing level 3 and level 4s daily. And the level 5 he needs will be few and still relatively short, a remap would shave of a day at most, big deal. A vet on the other hand, who is looking at +30 day skills, he could find it tempting to spend ISK to cut of days on a selected few skills.
Calapine Xeno Tech Corp Flatline. 83	Posted - 2011.11.05 15:02:00 - [12] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Please, remove the stupid time limit for attribute remaps. Instead have a fee for remapping attributes. For example, - 1st remap within a month 5 mil isk - 2 nd remap within a month 50 mil isk - 3 rd remap to unlimited remaps within a month 250 mil isk - If left unchanged for a period of a month then it's back to the basic fee 5 mil isk This is a suggestion and i think it will work without anything being unbalanced and gives ppl a chance to adjust attributes to better fit training of skillpoints. Why having a stupid year time limit???? It's not even sure ppl stays a year in the game if they made a mistake during th remap allowed. Btw. This is how it works in WoW for example regarding talent tree. What do other think of this? It's a flat out bad idea. (Sorry if that sounds harsh) You do realise if you allow monthly remaps you might as well do away with attributes alltogether. Everyone would train at optimal speed 100% off the time. If you are concerned about attracting new players, why do away with one of Eves stand out-ish features? Cala P.S.: re 'mistake during remap' Usually if you happen to misclick during a remap the GMs are rathe helpfull and reset your attributs, as long as you file a ticket right away and it's the first time. So no, it's not a good reason to quit.
Shivus Tao Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild 7	Posted - 2011.11.05 20:14:00 - [13] - Quote Will Strafe wrote: Shivus Tao wrote: Since plex and isk are freely interchangeable it sets up the pay to win dynamic everyone wants to avoid. If thats your argument, then everything which can be bought with ISK is pay to win. Faction gear? Pay to win, for example. Nope. Currently it's all contained within the same time frame. A new character can't tailor his attributes to min/max into a carrier for instance unless he does it the long way with 6 months of int/mem, and 6 of perc/will. And then navigation and drone skills remain "off" combinations int/perc and mem/perc. Instituting a remap for isk would enable that player to buy his way into a carrier, or anything, ahead of schedule, even with poor planning. The pay to win dynamic in this case comes from the ability for a player to essentially speed up training, training at the maximum rate for any skill he wishes as long as he has the cash to blow on GTC's. It's the same as what happens in a free to play game that offers increased experience gains for paying customers" and this is where it should remain.
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat 102	Posted - 2011.11.06 06:05:00 - [14] - Quote You know, you don't have to remap, right? My alts use a generic mapping like 23i 21p 21m 17w 17c so never remap. I'm old Achura with low charisma, so I'll probably never remap. Everytime I look at remapping, EVEmon shows me it will save maybe 15 days a year. Big deal. I just train whatever suits me at the time, rather than planning grandiose year long plans which I'll never be able to stick to. I try to restrict my plans to 90 days or less, but even those I rarely follow 100%.
ztarpope Audeles Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 15:18:00 - [15] - Quote Well, thank good BF3 is out so there is something to play while waiting, waiting, waiting .... for the time to go in Eve. Or at least until the paid period ends. It's all about waiting in Eve, it's a unique game in the way there is nothing fun to do the first year because you don't have skillpoints for it. Skill isn't important in Eve, only skillpoints and thus time played.
Cyniac Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance 46	Posted - 2011.11.09 15:47:00 - [16] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, thank good BF3 is out so there is something to play while waiting, waiting, waiting .... for the time to go in Eve. Or at least until the paid period ends. It's all about waiting in Eve, it's a unique game in the way there is nothing fun to do the first year because you don't have skillpoints for it. Skill isn't important in Eve, only skillpoints and thus time played I recently recruited a three week old player into my corp. I assigned him the role to scout out a nullsec constellation, told him the basics about not getting blown up and he's out there playing with the sharks. He'll be part of a combat fleet before the week is out. Why? Because he was the will, the drive and balls to do it. It's your attitude that's wrong, not the system. Sure his skills are suboptimal but it's not skills that get things done. It's pilots. Learn to work with your limitations, you will appreciate your in game skills all that much more when you finally get them.
ztarpope Audeles Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 15:56:00 - [17] - Quote Cyniac wrote: ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, thank good BF3 is out so there is something to play while waiting, waiting, waiting .... for the time to go in Eve. Or at least until the paid period ends. It's all about waiting in Eve, it's a unique game in the way there is nothing fun to do the first year because you don't have skillpoints for it. Skill isn't important in Eve, only skillpoints and thus time played I recently recruited a three week old player into my corp. I assigned him the role to scout out a nullsec constellation, told him the basics about not getting blown up and he's out there playing with the sharks. He'll be part of a combat fleet before the week is out. Why? Because he was the will, the drive and balls to do it. It's your attitude that's wrong, not the system. Sure his skills are suboptimal but it's not skills that get things done. It's pilots. Learn to work with your limitations, you will appreciate your in game skills all that much more when you finally get them. Well, i simply don't like a time consuming game. When i start playing a game i want some fun from the start and this isn't possible in Eve. That's why i'll stop playing Eve. Can't suite everybody. Have fun!!
MethodAnarchy Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 0	Posted - 2011.11.09 18:41:00 - [18] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, i simply don't like a time consuming game. When i start playing a game i want some fun from the start and this isn't possible in Eve. That's why i'll stop playing Eve. Can't suite everybody. Have fun!! I like your idea. Most non indy people I have talked to bite the bullet on Drones, Leadership (and PI, which a lot of new players do for the early money) skills and train them without remaps. Usually because they are either mapped for perception or intel because that is what most of the core ship flying skills are. I wouldn't get too discouraged about the feedback. Any time you propose a change you'll get people fighting it, It doesn't matter what the change is. You'll always get "it is fine how it is. Just plan ahead better, or jump through 9 hoops like I had to." type responses.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1374	Posted - 2011.11.10 15:03:00 - [19] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, i simply don't like a time consuming game. When i start playing a game i want some fun from the start and this isn't possible in Eve. That's why i'll stop playing Eve. Can't suite everybody. The game isn't particularly time consuming (aside from some of the travel, which can getGÇª snoozeworthy). It's your approach to the game that consumes time. You can have fun right from the start and all along the way. In fact, if you don't, chances are that you never will because once you get to that place you've been waiting for, nothing will actually change. The game will be exactly the same GÇö if you waited before, you will now just wait for something else. You're quite right, the game can't suit everyone, and that is one of the things that tends to be a clear divisor: the ability to have fun with what you have instead of infinitely waiting for what you will get some dayGÇª GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Kesshisan 58	Posted - 2011.11.11 17:28:00 - [20] - Quote I came up with an idea for attribute remapping that may actually work. Every 26 days give someone 1 attribute to remap. You can accrue a total of 14 attribute remaps before it "caps out." This is effectively a full remap every 1 year. New players would start with 28 attributes to remap. A player remapping from mem/int into int/mem will only use 6 remaps. A player remapping from int/mem into mem/perp will use only 10 remaps. A player remapping from int/mem into pecp/will will use a full 14 remaps. I believe this would make it a little easier (going from int/mem to mem/int is about 6 months) but without making attribute points worthless. .
Axearm Thunk'um Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous 6	Posted - 2011.11.16 00:14:00 - [21] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, i simply don't like a time consuming game. When i start playing a game i want some fun from the start and this isn't possible in Eve. That's why i'll stop playing Eve. Can't suite everybody. Have fun!! The funny thing is when player train a character for months without playing because they just want to fly the bog ships and what not. SO they get their big bad ship that their character can pilot but that they, as a player, have no clue how to use because they didn't want to 'waste time'. Mean while someone who has been playing for two weeks in a rifter can just dominate them because in those two weeks they have learned not to prize the ship they are flying, has learn game mechanics, knows every limitation of the ship they pilot, etc. You have pretty much said it your self. This game is hard, you don't like hard games, and so you won't be playing. That is fine. If there are other noobs reading this, feeling similar i give you this advise. You are not your ship. go out and lose them with great regularity. you may lose ship after ship before you pick a lesson about gate guns, but it doesn't matter, get out there and play, die, have a good time. Don't let some skill training hold you back. There are plenty of corps that love new players, who will teach the ropes and supply you with FREE SHIPS. Go out and have fun now. (Flying Dangerous is recruiting, we have ship replacement programs and we want you! Contact me if you have any questions)
Obsidiana White-Noise 17	Posted - 2011.11.26 19:37:00 - [22] - Quote ISK for SP = bad AUR for SP = bad I understand your frustration, but after awhile you play Eve in terms of years. You plan, plot, tradeoff, and decide your future. Until then, you trade off some speed for good all-around training.
Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 29	Posted - 2011.11.27 06:44:00 - [23] - Quote Reminds me of a book i read to my son. If you give a mouse a cookie. First people complained about training time for new players. So new players were given 3 remaps, double training time for the first 1.2 million skillpoints. Dont forget the skill queue, allowing you to go to sleep and wake up with 10 new level 2 skills... I had to set a lvl 4 or 5 before bed my first few weeks of playing. Then people complained about learning skills, they were taken out of the game to make it easier for new players. All we are doing is removing things that make the game the way it is. If you want to sit there and not undock until you have 20 million skillpoints, by all means go ahead. Or you can be useful and undock, learn to play the game, and train the appropriate skills as you see a need for them. You dont need to have stupid amounts of SP to be competitive in this game. You referenced WoW, so I will do the same. If you take 40 lvl 10 characters and attack a level 85 what happens? The 40 lvl 10s die without the 85 breaking a sweat. If you get 5-10 2 week old characters in eve you can easily take down players with 50-60 million skillpoints depending on what they are flying. TL:DR, undock, play the game, and quit whining.
Obsidiana White-Noise 20	Posted - 2011.11.27 07:03:00 - [24] - Quote Hamatitio wrote: First people complained about training time for new players. So new players were given 3 remaps, double training time for the first 1.2 million skillpoints. Dont forget the skill queue, allowing you to go to sleep and wake up with 10 new level 2 skills... I had to set a lvl 4 or 5 before bed my first few weeks of playing. Then people complained about learning skills, they were taken out of the game to make it easier for new players. Before the queue I had over a dozen unfinished skills that I never could time right around my schedule. That was long over due. As for new players, as Eve is a complicated game, there is no real solution for that. Any help is appreciated. As for learning skills, I have mixed feelings. I trained two to five, used them, and got a return on my investment. Then the rest were removed before I could get to them. Now I train more slowly, making me miss them. Now I have spare SP and I don't have to train them, making me happy. I wish they reduced them or did something else, but the vast majority of Eve is in favor of the move.
Bibosikus Elite United Hard Moose Moose Alliance 0	Posted - 2011.12.13 16:11:00 - [25] - Quote In the long list of Eve game mechanics & features that really do need attention, remapping doesn't even warrant an appearance. It's properly weighted for new players and balanced just fine for older ones. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux.
Anariana Shoot First And Ask Questions Never 18	Posted - 2011.12.14 03:10:00 - [26] - Quote ztarpope Audeles wrote: Well, thank good BF3 is out so there is something to play while waiting, waiting, waiting .... for the time to go in Eve. Or at least until the paid period ends. It's all about waiting in Eve, it's a unique game in the way there is nothing fun to do the first year because you don't have skillpoints for it. Skill isn't important in Eve, only skillpoints and thus time played. your stuff, I can haz ?

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