nah they use the new fitting probably with suboptimal/pve fits , and cant gasp what our problem is

Still not seeing this change on SiSi - any idea when it'll be there?

Patience, give them two or three more years, they just started to work on it.

Hmmm, I am now motivated to make a stupidly simple analogy for what you're saying about blasters vs all other weapon types.

You give a person a shotgun (Gallente ship with blasters), you give the opponent an assault rifle (Minmatar ship with AC's). You place these two people in an open field at 50m (any place in space where the ships do not land on top of each other). The person with the shotgun is actually Aretha Franklin, while the person with the AR is Usain Bolt. Usain is able to run at full speed while shooting his gun and never missing, while Aretha "runs" while shooting and never hitting. Sure, it'll take a few hits before she goes down, but she has absolutely no chance to ever hit her target. NOW BOOST HER SPEED BY 10%!!!!

And you tell me this is fair?

Let's get back to Aretha Franklin with her shotgun and Usain Bolt and his M16


What can Aretha do to survive this fight ?

- Hide in fog (if not toxic)
- Get another Weapon (a walther ppk is not an option!)
- Get Inside a jeep with a mashine gun
- lay out traps for Mr Bolt (remind that this is not allowed inside a shopping mall!)

Giving Aretha the ability to spin faster and removing the need to reload her shotgun won't help ^^


P.S.: Watching Bolt orbiting a spinning Aretha looks pretty silly!

If u dont like the short range, you shouldnt have chosen gallente as your main faction.

All factions are actually "similar" (not equal but similar), or should I ask for a SP reinbursement for playing caldari and being useless in PVP with 9 of 10 of my ships? All factions have their handicaps and strengths. Gallente have biggest drone bay space, strongest weapons, wepons with the highest tracking, they can also use the weapons with the longest range (RG) they are the second fastest ships... those are plenty of bonuses.

Hamox:

I do agree with u in that something needs to be done, but if we give gallente ships a straight speed bonus + a DPS bonus + a range bonus, were going to make gallente OP, and thats what we dont want.
As EvE players, its also our duty to try to find a reasonable solution, which wont alter the game ballance. There4 I agreed with the drone idea, because it would bring in more versatility to the game, while gallentean ships are generally bennefitted of drone improvements.
This thread, is full of good ideas, but also of a lot of cry and nosense, such as a 25% range and dps bonus for blasters, or stuff like that. Of course CCP is not paying attention to this, lets be reasonable and propose productive stuff and those things will also get the attention they deserve.

Rail
1) Hyperion and Mega still cannot fit a full rack of 425-II and a decent armor tank they need more powergrid and cpu given tha fact that you need a cap booster+mwd on every decent rail fit for fleets
2) 425 damage still to low compared to projectile turrets of the same caliber + capacitor usage and tracking make them whorse on every aspect
3) T2 ammo still remain useless compared to factions
4) ammo type granularity still overkill, lessen them pls

WTF are you doing in a Proteus for PvE? Domi for missions, Ishtar for exploration, problem solved.

WTF people. Stop thinking CCP will code up something magical and introduce in the game.

Propose something by just tweaking the current game mechanics and you might get something. Propose a pony and you won't get any this christmas.

Why is this so hard...

Patience, give them two or three more years, they just started to work on it.

Personally I've been using hybrids for the last 3 years with no complaints, and yes I can also use t2 projectiles and lasers. I've always preferred hybrids and so that's what I use...

I dont know why people are so pissed. The chages so far, while not the ultimate solution, are pretty damn good.

Clearly they arent looking to chage hybrids roles and/or make them mimic lasers/projectiles. These chages going live are a boost to their current roles. Ill take it - given that he said gallente ship tweaks are next. That is where the big canges will come from - the ship bonuses.

This is the right way to do it. Change guns first, see how they play. Once you have an idea on where the failures are, fix those holes with ship tweaks and bonuses. Doing it any other way will introduce too many variables that cant be evaluated properly.

Said another way -given these changes are slight, it suggests to me that we are going to get some pretty significant ship changes soon.

My predictioms for simple change we might see:

Most gal ships get larger utility space fo an extra flight of drones
Myrm and Eos get boosted bandwidth.
Active tavking cycles will be tweaked. Gallente in general will get some kind of tweak so we use our armor and structure better.
Perhaps the return of thr long web for certain ships.
I also think blaster ships at least should get some kind of overheat bonus for durqation andor module done. That wouls indirectly boost many things:damage, speed, tank, tackle, etc. That is a sship bonus that would be easy to fix,

Regardless, the changes need to ship-specific, and SIMPLE to code. The treatises here are mostly unrealistic because of their length.

Just my opinion.

they are not going to give you whiners the god like capabilities...

you and the others in this thread whining are just reinforcing the old adage "give a man an inch and he will take a yard"

... but ffs every ship and race should not be able to do it well.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


narrow minded person trying to say their opinion is everyones.

all bow to the minmatar lords.
what's thy bidding ....


So aretha is still using a shotgun but u. bolt switched rifle with a tankkiller mashine gun :p

I still think this thread is too cluttered with suggestions that just mask the underlying issues.

PAY VERY CLOSE ATTENTION CCP! THIS IS THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM WITH HYBRIDS!

Lets say we gave blasters an effective range that allowed TEs to boost it into the 20-25km range, much like autocannons and scorched pulses.

Let's also say we gave railguns respectable alpha damage and increased its dps to match either artillery or beams.

This is, by the way, pretty much what the playerbase has been asking for in this thread, as best as I can interpret.

Given these changes were made live, would I use hybrids? HELL NO!

Why not?

-projectiles are cap-free
-lasers have instant ammo reload
-ships with projectile bonuses provide the pilot with the best speed in the game; this is a passive defensive mechanic
-ships with laser bonuses provide the pilot with the best EHP in the game; this is a passive defensive mechanic

If you are not willing to give Gallente/Caldari hybrid ships a native, passive, defensive mechanic, IN ADDITION TO GIVING HYBRID TURRETS MATCHING DPS AND RANGE STATS TO MAKE THEM EQUALLY EFFECTIVE IN COMBAT, then you WILL NOT entice pilots to choose hybrids.

The only thing I learned from the hybrid changes in Crucible is CCP doesn't understand the underlying problem. Well, here it is.

Make hybrids fun. Make them USEFUL. Make sure blasterboat pilots don't have to play the "all-in" game by committing to a fight without any option to run away. Make sure railguns are WORTH the trouble of costing cap, plagued with reload timers, stuck on weak ships, have fixed damage type. Hybrids still have all cons and no pros. You have yet to address this in Crucible.

let us think that through. once we would make the blaster platforms the fastest ships ingame, so to say they could catch anything, they definitly would become the new fotm and quite surely op.
one could trash all kiting ships, because they would not be able to maintain a distance, dieing horrible fast because they sport tanks much more on the thinner side of life (speed tank, etc). in fact every ship would have to bow before the blasterspeedster which will rush in and melt face as soon as on grid.
the only viable option in this department would be to give them much thinner tanks, or in other words copy the minmatarstyle and put a gallente sticker on it. nobody wants that homogenisation or that kind of talos swarms.

i still think it is worth a try to give hybrids a unique benefit in making them little cap booster, thus every firing hybrid gives the ship a little cap back, the amount would be a question of balancing, but it would defenitly make hybrids desireable.
it would also make blaster/hybrids much less vulnerable to neuts, a common danger lurking in blaster range.
of corse there would be amarr and minmatar pilots putting hybrids onto their ships, but after all we want make hybrids to be used, aren't we?

increasing range of blasters and making blasterboats fastest ships ingame is not the way to go, imo
and the other limitations of hybrids still would be "needed".

Meh, this should be a hybrid thread, but except for mag, all it is is Gallente blaster ***** fests.

[quote=Julius Foederatus]
... but those implying that your ship should have some unique stopping or catching power just cause you're shortest range guy... are just trolling.

The thing is:

- range of heavy missiles is way too good (cut it down to 40 km)
- TEs provide way too big falloff bonus (15% seems reasonable)
- passive shield tank mods should slow you down just like passive armour ones

After getting the stuff above sorted out, we may start looking at speed values and/or consider giving blasterboats something unique, like web resistance bonus (surely not 100% one - total immunity is proven as stupid at supercaps).

But it's crucial to follow the order. Trying to 'fix' gallente straight ahead is counter-productive.

fking forum eated my post

atm blaster weapon era fine on TQ the main problem is the ships that use them, they are slow and they struggle to get in range especially when fitted with plates and trimark, many of you suggested to remove the speed penalty from armor rigs but that would also boost amarr and some minmatar ships and they dont need a boost.
so my idea is to boost reiforced bulkheads, give the a +45% to ship hull hp remove all the speed/agi penalty from them and just give them a locking RANGE penalty like 7,5% per module because the engeneer have to remove some electronics for extra hull hp (this also prevents megabaits with 7 bulkheads) drop the cpu requirements to 25/30 cpu per module.

what we get in this way?
all the hull tanking ships keep their original speed agility with a decent buffer tank a mega fitted with 1DC+4 bulkheads would have a speed of 1000ms (1500ms in OH) with a 130k EHP tank, 2 slot left for MFS and all the rigs slot free for hybrid rigs 1dmg rig +2 tracking rigs are easy to fit now with reduced fittings for hybrid weapons, of course repairs will be harder and costy but you will save about 40mils on rigs so its a fair tradeoff i think.
in this way you can also keep gal ship fully capable to fit a armor tank if the situation need it like RR fleets but you will have a solid buffer tank for solo/small gang situations.

and if we wanna complete the job it wouldnt be a bad idea to change the 7,5% to armor rep in a + 5% hull hp

at least tier 3 bc is a success , even if it is only winmatard who would have thought ?:O

W8 I'm going to try to fit my vagabond with 425mm T2 auto canons and see if I can fully fit the ship like in TQ. Who knows

Tanya if you have no clue about the CCP philosophy on balance you will never get your points across. Even a top of the line T2 cruiser is not always designed to fit the top tier guns, mwd and oversized plates/extenders. This might be the job for commandships.

Also long range ship are designed to use more fitting on the weapons leaving less tank and less mobility to compensate for being able to sit out of tackle range... Unfortunately this part of Eve hasn't been looked into since forever and it's somewhat broken. But if you want a MWD on your Eagle you better be prepared to drop tank or fit RCU's.

Pinky

I'm never letting this thread die.

The players are waiting for more news.

That's a total BS. Railguns already outdamage beams while consuming almost no cap and being extremely easy to fit. And on top of that having superior range.

Heavy Beam Laser II: 3.6 dmg mode / 6.00 = 0.6
250mm Railgun II: 3.63 dmg mode / 6.38 rof = 0.569

Now add a typical pair of bonuses (cap consumption vs damage one) and you'll see that there's no point in using beams whatsoever.

Probably it is too early to see a change in these rankings, but still, following is the
current stats copied from eve kill. ROKH is the sole representative here.

RankShipsKills

---

1Drake79930
2Hurricane45597
3Abaddon31775
4Tengu22205
5Maelstrom18365
6Tornado16221
7Armageddon14872
8Scimitar11504
9Tempest10319
10Sabre9789
11Cynabal9144
12Huginn8606
13Thrasher8188
14Loki7231
15Rapier7170
16Lachesis7156
17Vagabond7141
18Rokh7135
19Zealot7112
20Rifter7106

RankWeaponsKills

---

1Heavy Missile Launcher II33892
2425mm AutoCannon II13747
31400mm Howitzer Artillery II9400
4Mega Pulse Laser II8748
5200mm AutoCannon II7454
6720mm Howitzer Artillery II6344
7220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II5996
8125mm Gatling AutoCannon II5341
9150mm Light AutoCannon II5245
10800mm Repeating Artillery II5046
11Heavy Pulse Laser II4640
12425mm Railgun II2587
13Heavy Neutron Blaster II2388
14Light Neutron Blaster II 2143
15'Malkuth' Heavy Missile Launcher I 2090
16'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher 2000
17280mm Howitzer Artillery II1713
18Dual 180mm AutoCannon II1662
19Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I1598
20Neutron Blaster Cannon II1594

If a damage time delay was added to all projectile based weapons Hybrid & Projectile) that might lessen the uberness of projectile weapons, only laser based weapons should have near instant damage.

We are here and we are reading your feedback.

We will be iterating on our balancing efforts based on the feedback in this and other threads and will release some more balancing in early 2012.

projektiles where crap before 2007 now they are overpowered
what does it tell u ??

... Sentries should be able to teleport or move alongside their ship on the Gila, Domi and Ishtar.

i was hoping to say that huge changes can be made any time in mmos.

and i dont wont hybrids to be overpowered just equal with less then 5% diference in performance compared to other guns.
thats balance

what we have now are huge jumps between them

The weapon is half of problem the other half is the ship bonus

gallente not need rail need a medium range weapon

caldari not need blaster need a medium range weapon

fix the bonus create new weapon

i just wonder if this change is now final

well every time a newbie asked me what to train, i told them minmatar

and if they start arguing how they imagine other races to be better
i just say shut up, and do what grown ups are telling u

so u see the trend
soon, after the most pilots trained for minmatar we have to rename the game from eve-online into winmatar-online

me mayself only 3 months left till perfect minmatar pilot

Is this thread still alive?

Lol impressive.

but i dont get it how do the Dev`s do there math and call it balance...
... at least reduce the fallof bonus on the traking enhancers to 15-20%

Yes, medium rails need work. But in all seriousness Hybrids are pretty damn awesome now. If you're having trouble grasping that, you're pretty bad at using hybrids.

[quote=Tanya Powers]... Blaster cannons in the 30km range will be deadly with the 1.4 range mod.

Not even close to how appalling are clueless tards who, while even unable to post with their mains (ashamed of themselves, apparently), dare to make arrogant demands which are bound to make hybrids no less than OP.

CCP's doing just fine in terms of sheer hybrid stats.

Troll spotted.

Do you even realize Pulse Myrmidon or Auto Canons Myrmidon is preferred to Hybrids Myrmidon and both with shield buffer dish way far more dps than any Hybrids/armor tank set up? -at least until this last buff that might well for once change this stupid situation.

You should train your laser skills after lvl1 or just stop trolling?

Side note about small hybrids:

Small hybrids were already not bad, not the kings of the hill but quite good, ships needed buffs for sure but small hybrids were fine. Now we can have frigates with weapons shooting as far as battleships short range weapons (30km+/- with gatlings but even more with 125mm), this is ridiculous.
No small weapon short range at least should be capable of hit something beyond scram range (8.5 to 13km), and long range past 15/17km.

Then I just look at my Daredevil with light Neutrons and read again his bonus "200% hybrids damage" ...

Really CCP, you don't listen (read) a crap of what we just say (write].

so the drakes get nerfed soon
and u will get a all out minmatar diversity in low and null sec roams

i would say the ccp devs are doing a great job

oh btw dont you find it strange that every advantages other races get is from the bonuses , and still minmatar gets "free" better speed/signature, like a hidden bonus for most of their ships

this
sollution -> stop paying

you surely are one hell of an optimist.
today is the last of january, we'll see if tallest comes up with something.
after that there still is enough time to be pessimistic...

since it is officially february (even in eve time), you shall be granted the right to be overly pessimistic ;P
your sarkasm and irony are refreshing. you may keep that, too. no really, its on the house ;)
time to rant, i guess?
but then, after 90 pages one is surely past the point of ranting....

i think they are done with gallente and now focus on the issues listed in the csm minutes and the fan fest.

there is alot more on my mind but its pointless saying anything here

it is so easy to get a bitter vet :p

the part which is disheartening is not the bad balance it is the lack of a good well rounded communiication.

Turns out CCP Tallest had twins and is now on paternity leave, as the leader of the re-balance team (there are 3 total) it has been put on the side burner untill he gets back. So i woul not expect ANY hyrbrid/Gallente changes/ re-balance for at least 6 months if at all.

this info might be usefull for you :)

Micro Jump Drive I
[+|n] medPower
[+|n] microJumpDrive
[+|n] online
[+] capacitorNeed: 946.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] cpu: 77.0
[+] disallowRepeatingActivation: 1.0
[+] duration: 30000.0
[+] gallenteNavyBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] heatAbsorbtionRateModifier: 0.04
[+] heatDamage: 8.2
[+] hp: 40.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] maxGroupActive: 1.0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] moduleReactivationDelay: 120000.0
[+] power: 1375.0
[+] republicFleetBonusMultiplier: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 1.0
[+] requiredThermoDynamicsSkill: 1.0
[+] signatureRadiusBonusPercent: 500.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 10.0
[+] warpScrambleStrength: -1.0

[+] Mobile Large Jump Disruptor I
[+|n] anchorDrop
[+|n] anchorLift
[+] anchoringDelay: 360000.0
[+] armorHP: 60000.0
[+] capacity: 0
[+] hp: 120000.0
[+] mass: 0
[+] metaLevel: 0
[+] requiredSkill1: 11584.0
[+] requiredSkill1Level: 3.0
[+] requiredSkill2: 3435.0
[+] requiredSkill2Level: 4.0
[+] requiredSkill3: 4385.0
[+] requiredSkill3Level: 3.0
[+] scanLadarStrength: 25.0
[+] shieldCapacity: 40000.0
[+] shieldRechargeRate: 1200000.0
[+] signatureRadius: 450.0
[+] techLevel: 1.0
[+] volume: 585.0

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129

so all the fighting for a better balance was not for nothing

and CCP finally understood the necesity of it
lets hope they do it right this time

This. What the hell has a microjump drive got to do with hybrids? Please make a separate thread in Features and Ideas and try to keep this one on topic.

I am disappointed by where the balancing has left hybrids (IE - slightly-less-awful-than-before) but I can also understand that with the announcement of the "game of drones team" (who we have heard worryingly little from in the Dev Blogs), CCP might not be willing to go further.

With Tallest out on paternity leave I'd expect balancing to go absolutely nowhere until next winter. This does make me feel somewhat cheated given how hard the eve community pushed for consistent iterative balancing, and I think CCP needs to either make a statement on the situation or assign another full-time employee to the task. Ship and module balancing is arguably the biggest gameplay component in eve upon which almost every other activity depends. It shouldn't be affected by one guy needing to take time off.