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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4304
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Posted - 2013.11.21 17:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:The Margin Trading Scam exploits the mechanic where a character with the Margin Trading skill can place buy orders and only place a portion of the ISK in escrow. If they then transfer all of their ISK away, the order will fail when someone tries to sell to it, essentially allowing them to make a fake buy order. Usually this means players make purchases that are grossly overpriced with the expectation that they can sell them to the margin trading-based buy order and make money, but instead are left with a pile of items that they will have to take a loss on.
The Margin Trading Scam exploit's the mark's credulity and unwillingness to do basic research before investing. The market history window provides more than enough information to allow easy identification of overpriced items.
Bolded the part where you seem to be saying every bit of market PVP is bad. It's a zero sum game, someone wins and someone else loses. Signing up to play (the first bolded bit) exposes you to the risk that you'll be the one losing (the second bolded bit). Neglecting to properly research the game (Market PvP) you're signing up to play increases that risk. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4305
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Posted - 2013.11.21 18:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kal Arkhenty wrote:I think being fined for not having enough funds to pay for an order, albeit annoying, is reasonable. In the real world you get fined if you write a check you can't cover. It would force you to pay more attention to how you lay out your buy orders.
You actually don't get fined for writing a check you can't cover. You get fined when someone tries to cash a check you can't cover. It's a pretty important difference.
When you give someone a bad check, you receive something of value, and the person who sold it to you ends up receiving nothing in exchange.
When a margin order fails, you receive nothing and the person who's trying to sell to you loses nothing because no exchange took place. This would be like you writing a check, calling your bank to find your balance is low before giving the check to the seller, and deciding not to complete the transaction. The seller keeps the goods, you keep your lack of money. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4309
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Posted - 2013.11.21 21:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Simc0m wrote:Gizznitt Malikite wrote: This is often coupled with contracts to sell their goods, or with goods located in a different station in system. That's not a margin trading scam. "Order cancel scams" are a completely different kind of scam whereby the buy order does not FAIL due to insufficient isk but is manually canceled after the sell contract is accepted.
Nope. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4324
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Posted - 2013.11.22 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Tippia wrote:Oh, and the buyer might have ran out of money, but that's ok because you are still being 100% protected and you're not going to lose a dime. The purpose of this thread is to eliminate the instance where the buyer has an order up that he can't perform on. Everything you listed is part of normal market game play.
You're right, running out of money is normal gameplay. At which point, the seller is protected by retaining his goods, and the person with the buy order is punished by forfeiting the broker's fees he paid.
Quote:There is no logical reason that such an order should exist. And the broker placing the order wouldn't let someone continue to place worthless orders either. That IS the point of the order guarantee, ie the guarantee that the order is legitimate in the first place and can be completed.
There is no such order guarantee in EVE. EVE's brokers do not provide the exact same service as RL brokers (who act as both a broker and a short term lender providing float). A major use of the Margin Trading skill is to place orders that you cannot complete right now.
From the Broker's point of view, the trader says "I'll be able to cover it by the time someone's ready to sell to it." If that happens, great. If it doesn't, the broker shrugs and declines to complete the order, and the seller is left entirely unharmed.
Quote:No one is looking to guarantee that someone can click a mouse fast enough to get to an order. Jesus, what a straw man argument that is.
What's the difference between being unable to sell to the order you've pegged your hopes on because it's already been completed/cancelled and being unable to do so because the buyer is broke?
The chance that a potential buyer will be unable to pay for ordered goods is the reason why sensible businesses require deposits or cash up front before beginning special orders. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4325
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Posted - 2013.11.22 23:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:Of course they don't provide the same services. Even then, they shouldn't keep orders on the market knowing the owners can't perform
They don't. That's why the orders cancel as soon as the buyer is unable to produce the cash required for a purchase. Remember, the whole point of the Margin Trading skill is the ability to say "I'll have the money before someone sells me the goods, so put the order up now." Whether there is money to cover the order is of entirely no consequence until someone attempts to fill the order, at which point the Broker checks, and takes the order down.
Quote:Except for the part where the order wasn't legitimate and the buyer couldn't perform.
The order is perfectly legitimate. The market allows you to put less ISK into escrow than is required to cover the entire order. In other words, whether the buyer can complete his end of the order is entirely irrelevant until there's a seller ready to provide goods.
If the buyer can't pay, the order's canceled, the seller loses nothing, and the buyer is out his broker fees.
Quote:The difference is that the order that was completed/cancelled was a legitimate order.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
Orders placed using the Margin Trading skill are placed following all the normal rules of the EVE market. That's the very definition of legitimacy. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4328
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Posted - 2013.11.23 01:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
SJ Astralana wrote:I think the simplest solution is to show multi-unit margin orders in red. Attempting to buy that item will pop up a big warning that the buyer proceeds at his own risk. It's the simplest code change, it educates the marks, it doesn't impact legitimate players, and it puts the scammers out of business.
How would you get a popup when interacting with a sell order or contract for an item based on what *buy orders* may be in existence? Or do you mean that you get a popup when you try to interact with the buy order?
Also, you don't need a minimum quantity greater than 1 to do margin scams.
In other words, I think that's 3-4 false statements out of 4. 1. The simplest change is no change (since there's not actually a problem). 3. It certainly impacts legitimate players (1. Scamming is legitimate gameplay in EVE, 2. An additional popup box every single time you buy something would be a decent sized impact) 4. It fails entirely in putting anyone out of business. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4329
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Posted - 2013.11.23 02:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aryan Kerrigan wrote:The only reason CCP is concerned is because their market UI is not representing information accurately to the users and this can be exploited.
So what's inaccurate about the information that's being presented? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4334
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Posted - 2013.11.24 03:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Truth Quantico wrote:QFA.
Adding a completely new mechanic with market fines, station trading lockouts, and trader ratings would also work, but prohibitive fines for failed orders seems a simpler solution that could knock off 98% of scam occurrences.
That would, in fact, affect 0% of Margin Scammers and significantly affect the ~99% of active traders who are not perfectly precognitive.
Here's how you margin scam with punitive failed order fines. 1) Make buy order on behalf of Corp wallet 1. 2) Empty Escrow as normal 3) Someone buys your overpriced stuff (at this point, the scam is over). 4) The mark tries to sell to the buy order. 5) The order fails, and the corp wallet goes negative with fines. 6) Repeat with Wallet 2, or start a new corp if you're out of wallets.
or: 1) Eat the fines. If they're high enough to actually discourage (ignoring the above workaround) scams, they'd be absolutely devastating to any normal beginning to intermediate trader. So the fines wouldn't be all that high.
There are a couple fundamental problems with trying to "fix" the Margin Trading scam by changing the Margin Trading skill: 1) The scam is over before anyone touches the buy order. 2) The scam does not require the Margin Trading skill to be viable. 3) The only people hurt by the many proposed changes are those who use the skill for reasons other than scamming. 4) There's no actual problem to fix. The market provides accurate information. The "problem" crops up when people make false assumptions about that information and draw inaccurate conclusions from those assumptions. They then complain about it rather than reworking their assumptions to match reality. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4335
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Posted - 2013.11.24 08:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:RubyPorto wrote:The market provides accurate information. The "problem" crops up when people make false assumptions about that information and draw inaccurate conclusions from those assumptions. They then complain about it rather than reworking their assumptions to match reality. I see the only problem as the game is pretty damn complex and there's no instruction manual. Adding the small bit of information to the UI 'buy orders are not guaranteed to be backed by the full amount of ISK' continues the current development trend of making EVE easier to understand and manipulate while maintaining mechanical complexity e: and cold dark harsh etc. if people ignore that piece of information, or don't factor it into their decisions, it's on their head
I'm always a fan of UI being used to break people's false assumptions. I'm not quite a fan of your wording, maybe something like:
"Orders shown are subject to change and/or revocation at any time, for any reason." "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4349
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Posted - 2013.11.25 04:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Anyway, you are correct. Most of us, aside from those with white or blue badges, are just faces behind a screen.
Stop discriminating against the faceless.
We are Meat Popsicles behind a screen. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4365
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Posted - 2013.11.26 22:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lilliana Stelles wrote:Remove the skill entirely and reimburse players who have it. Or Prevent the order from being cancelled, making wallets go into the negative if an order is filled.
Personally I'm just mad at the crazy prices appearing on random-items that players may or may not need at some point.
So is it that you hate new traders and want to prevent them from making significant profits, or that you like seeing infinite fountains of magically created ISK?
If you don't like the prices, work to reduce demand or to increase supply.
ArchAngel Jibril wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Reilly Duvolle wrote:Delete the margin trading skill. Problem solved. Ban players who are incapable of or unwilling to exercise a little due diligence when attempting to use the market. Problem solved. I like how you attribute the fact that the game Interface is lying to you, to "lack of player dilligence".
The game is telling you that there is an offer to buy X units of Y item at Z price. That is all it is telling you.
You are assuming that that means it's telling you that there will be an offer to buy X units of Y item at Z price when you want to sell to it.
Your assumption is the reason you think you're being lied to. Not checking your assumptions against reality is called "failure to exercise due diligence." "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4366
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Posted - 2013.11.27 00:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
ArchAngel Jibril wrote:RubyPorto wrote:The game is telling you that there is an offer to buy X units of Y item at Z price. That is all it is telling you.
You are assuming that that means it's telling you that there will be an offer to buy X units of Y item at Z price when you want to sell to it.
Your assumption is the reason you think you're being lied to. Not checking your assumptions against reality is called "failure to exercise due diligence." It seems to me that it is you that are completely ignorant of the basic premise of this whole discussion. So let me quote: CCP Rise wrote:This isn't about scamming or whether or not it's okay for people to trick other people, which is obviously extremely EVE and we have no problem with. The issue here is that the client (via the market interface) is essentially lying to the player by showing an order which can't actually be filled.
Show me where CCP Rise claimed to be infalliable. He's making the same assumption you're making. No matter who's making the assumption, the assumption does not match reality.
Of course, he's in a position to change reality to match his assumptions, but that invites the question of why CCP should start guaranteeing the availability of buy orders. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4366
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Posted - 2013.11.27 03:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reilly Duvolle wrote:RubyPorto wrote:
Show me where CCP Rise claimed to be infalliable. He's making the same assumption you're making. No matter who's making the assumption, the assumption does not match reality.
Of course, he's in a position to change reality to match his assumptions, but that invites the question of why CCP should start guaranteeing the availability of buy orders.
Brilliant. But why stop there? Why not have the game Interface changed in such a way that you cannot trust a single piece of information it gives you? If the ability to grief/scam other players via a misinforming game interface is a good thing, why should it be confined to the trade window?
You can trust every piece of information the interface actually gives you. The problem is that many people think that it's giving them more information than it actually is (i.e. they make assumptions).
Quote:See that gate? It may or may not be bubbled. Its up to you to guess.
Yep, that's every nullsec gate before you jump through it. The game doesn't tell you. So if someone started posting "The game's lying to me; it let me jump through a gate into a bubble and I lost my ship when I assumed the gate wouldn't let me jump into a bubble" would you be here pushing for a "bubbled gate indicator" or a ban on bubbling gates? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4374
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Posted - 2013.11.28 08:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Drab Cane wrote:Right now, we take it for granted that the order will be filled.
This right here is the problem.
Nowhere does anything in the game suggest you make that assumption. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
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4382
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Posted - 2013.11.28 22:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Drab Cane wrote:Right now, we take it for granted that the order will be filled. This right here is the problem. Nowhere does anything in the game suggest you make that assumption. Incorrect. Placing buy orders on the market suggests this. Unitl a player trains MT which is some time into most players game experiance.
EVE is an exception based design. Should CCP remove every ability because people who don't have the skill to use that ability can't use that ability?
Regardless, where in the UI elements related to placing buy orders does it say that everyone must place 100% of the value of the order into escrow? "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
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4385
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Posted - 2013.11.29 18:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:RubyPorto wrote:EVE is an exception based design. Should CCP remove every ability because people who don't have the skill to use that ability can't use that ability?
Regardless, where in the UI elements related to placing buy orders does it say that everyone must place 100% of the value of the order into escrow? That wasn't the question. The question was what suggested it. You have been educated as to what in the interface gives the suggerstion that buy orders are guaranteed. Experiance.
In an exception based system, that you can't do something does not in any way imply that nobody can do that thing. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
4386
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Posted - 2013.11.30 01:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ayana Mayuko wrote:Couldn't a simple fix just be to give the seller a warning that the order they're selling to won't be fulfilled, and then give them the option to sell to the next highest valid order?
That already happens. The order fails and the seller is able to sell to the next buy order if they wish.
The people complaining want the order to fail before they make any attempt to actually acquire the item. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
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4386
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Posted - 2013.11.30 02:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ayana Mayuko wrote:I was more thinking along the lines of actually warning the seller prior to the sale so they can make a judgement as to whether its a worthwhile sell - if they just sell to an order that can't fulfill they're automatically charged tax.
They are not. No transaction occurs. No tax is collected. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
d-£-󦦦º-ó-ꦪ¦¦e¦¦-í-ë-í-󦦦+¦¦¦»-ö¦+b-¥¦º¦¦¦¦¦½¦¦-ö-ëa-Ŧ+-¥¦í¦+-à-à¦ñc¦ó-á¦í-ƒ¦«¦½¦Ö¦¦¦á-ò-çl-Ǧ¢-ü¦+-û¦ƒ¦¦-ô-ë-Ö-ô¦Ñ-ô¦¬¦½e¦+¦¿¦ù¦¦¦ÿ¦ù¦Ñ¦¼-ò-ꦽ¦¦¦+¦+-ö¦¦-à¦á¦ú¦ÿ |
RubyPorto
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4401
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Posted - 2013.12.03 18:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rob Crowley wrote:There is no way to tell if a buy order is covered or not.
Because it doesn't matter. You cannot be harmed by a buy order failing for any reason. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
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Posted - 2013.12.04 15:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dav Varan wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Rob Crowley wrote:There is no way to tell if a buy order is covered or not. Because it doesn't matter. You cannot be harmed by a buy order failing for any reason. Incorrect. What if you just travelled 15 jumps in a freighter full of trit to make a buy order ?
Before you attempt to sell your goods, you have your goods at some location. After you attempt to sell your goods, you still have your goods at the same location.
How have you been harmed? Your speculative efforts before attempting to sell your goods are irrelevant. "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
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