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Ivanova
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Posted - 2003.09.03 05:13:00 -
[1]
Is it true that the activation cost of a Tach is currently set to be 125? (Can't log into chaos ATM)
Um, insane?
I was already going to stop using them because of the relatively high activation cost, and I have Controlled Bursts 4, 3 cap relays, and an Apocalypse!
CCP, please, if you want to nerf something, filter it through my signature first.
If this is not correct, well then, nevermind. :)
-- "Never use a sledgehammer to drive a thumb tack." |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.03 05:22:00 -
[2]
yes, and somebody with no tachyon experience insist it's still overpowered.....lol
btw, tachyon need 4750 powergrid too :p
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Agent Shield
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Posted - 2003.09.03 05:52:00 -
[3]
And me sitting with a researched blueprint for a gun that now nobody is gonna want? 
I hope it is not true.
Agent Shield |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.09.03 06:44:00 -
[4]
No they are about to botch tacheons badly. Better start training artys.
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.09.03 06:58:00 -
[5]
With the screwing around with the lasers stats, nobody will want to use them. 
Hey, CCP, GET OFF MY GUNS!
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.09.03 07:25:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Darth Maul on 03/09/2003 07:27:14
Yes tachs are sucking very bad right now, all the anti laser propaganda not withstanding..
Sure with their increased damage mod, and 7 or 8 extruded heat sinks you can get BIG hits against unhardened shields.. IF the target isn't moving since they cut the tracking in Half.. and IF it isn't very far away since they effectively cut about 20km off it's range.. not to mention they decreased the ROF.. so even with the larger multiplyer the DOT isn't all that different.. Oh.. and 120 cap and 4750 grid fitting? That means that you wont be using more than 3 of them, even on an APOC, and with that cap useage you won't be firing them very much either, even with an Amarr BS.. since you had to use all your low slots for Extruded heat sinks in order to come to the forums and cry "OMG OMG 600 damage WTFPWN!!" and didn't fit any cap relays remember?
So yeah.. there was a litttle rush for tacheyon BPs after the last patch.. and we all bought em and sold a few and tried em out.. but soon you'll be able to move those BPS to the unused section of your manufacturing hanger along with the basic cargo holds, miner 1's, and inertial stabiliser BP's.
If you want to plan ahead tho.. buy some good projectile BPS.. because demand for those are soon going to go through the roof once people see what they're doing on chaos compared to the rest of the stuff.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.09.03 07:49:00 -
[7]
You guys never heard of Cap Boosters?
Those are like new ammo for Amarr ships, making them -useful- modules to fit (yes, even on a BS).
The high grid req means you have to fit Reactor control unit.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.03 07:54:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
You guys never heard of Cap Boosters?
Those are like new ammo for Amarr ships, making them -useful- modules to fit (yes, even on a BS).
The high grid req means you have to fit Reactor control unit.
you are telling me 75 cap per 15sec going to "fix" cap issue? or the best 300 cap per 15 or so sec..... and did you ever see how much space those charges take?
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Ivanova
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Posted - 2003.09.03 08:22:00 -
[9]
Keep in mind that the weapon changes are not final yet.
If they are... Well, it would be very consistant with the past philosophy of taking something that is somewhat unbalanced on one direction and moving it light years in the other direction. Perhaps after hammering 20 or 30 thumbtacks with jackhammers, someone with authority will realized that they are destroying more than they ar fixing, and realize that there is a middle ground. They don't have to completely destroy any and all usefulness of an item because of a percieved advantaged.
Balancing means just that--to "balance". If you have one side of a "balance scale" dipping too far down, you may need to slowly add weight to the other end of the scale to even things out, but one does not "balance" an irregularity of a few "ounces" by adding several thousand tons to the other side. It ends up worse off than it was to begin with.
As an analogy, I find myself wondering, when the people that make these decisions are driving and find their vehicle approaching another person's lane, do they violently swerve the steering wheel the other way as hard and fast as possible to get out of that lane (and then some)?
Eventually, they are going to drive right off of a bridge.
-- "Never use a sledgehammer to drive a thumb tack." |
Carbon
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Posted - 2003.09.03 12:41:00 -
[10]
Uhm.. I just spent a couple of weeks training for large energy turrets and associated skills to make them viable on my Apoc, and now they're making Tachyons worthless?!
Who on earth is feeding the developers inaccurate information.. that kind of cap use and energy grid requirement will make them worthless. And Discorporation: Do a bit of math - even with lv 4 engineering and a crapload of reactor control units/power diagnostics, you won't be able to fit any number that would actually make them worthwhile. 3750 powergrid is already high, as well as 70+ cap, as projectiles need practically nil and hybrids less than half.
I fear I'm going to have to train for a Tempest now and leave my Apocalypse for mining duties 
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ROFL
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Posted - 2003.09.03 12:47:00 -
[11]
This has been the way. Stop wasting time and train all guns skills, so you can mount whatever supergun exists for that particular patch. This is the only way to survive.
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Revolution
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Posted - 2003.09.03 14:08:00 -
[12]
4.5 dmg mod, 40km optimal, 16km falloff, 125 cap, 4500 to fit, still the hardest hitting large turret in the game by a long shot, notwithstanding shield hardeners have been dropped to 40%.
If you people had read some of tombs posts in the patch review, you would know that he has stated they still have another 2 weeks of balancing to go before the patch gets released.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.09.03 15:05:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Who on earth is feeding the developers inaccurate information.. that kind of cap use and energy grid requirement will make them worthless. And Discorporation: Do a bit of math - even with lv 4 engineering and a crapload of reactor control units/power diagnostics, you won't be able to fit any number that would actually make them worthwhile. 3750 powergrid is already high, as well as 70+ cap, as projectiles need practically nil and hybrids less than half.
Quote:
Check the weapon thread on the ships & modules thread. There are explanations there  (the gist of it is that Tachyons are a special breed of laser weapons. In my opinion , it's jsutified that it sucks cap like there's not tomorrow. Just fit only two on your arma/apoc and you'll be fine)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Falhofnir
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Posted - 2003.09.03 15:55:00 -
[14]
it just makes other large energy turrets ACTUALLY WORTH USING.
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.03 16:11:00 -
[15]
Quote:
it just makes other large energy turrets ACTUALLY WORTH USING.
yep, the supposed to be the weakest large laser-dual heavy- actually is the best
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Aleister Crowley
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Posted - 2003.09.03 16:59:00 -
[16]
Actually some of you energy users (myself being one) can do a little experiment.
Calculate your DPS/cap use using 6 megas, then calculate using 1200 art. You will find that since you can mount more damage pumps and not worry about cap you can effectively do better damage with proj in an amarr ship. ie. 7 pumps and a CPU. as opposed to 4 pumps, CPU, 3 relays.
With the added bonus of having a bit of cap to run that hardener/shield recharger.
Not to mention the Proj pumps have that extra 1% RoF bonus over the energy pumps.
Must be that the devs only 'intended' energy to be used for killing NPCs.
Someone at CCP ought to give a full briefing on what this game is 'intended' to be so that we can at least have some foresight into the drastic changes they keep throwing out.
'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law' |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.09.03 18:04:00 -
[17]
Hmmmm....
Can you imagine the war with Iraq and the UN saying "Stop Stop... that tank is too powerful you must now use a water cannon instead!!!"
To be honest instead of nerfing existing equipment they should introduce other equipment that counteracts it. That way we wouldnt have to keep learning what the hell has changed with your tried and tested tactics.
So lasers are strong... the devs should have introduced a new mod for laser defence.
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
QBall
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Posted - 2003.09.03 20:47:00 -
[18]
You could always be in a missle boat like a Raven. IMO all guns are overpowered now. Dmg mods either A) shouldn't stack or B) Give exponential diminished returns.
And FYI Tacyons have never been the best laser. The best ones are .... oh you will just have to go find that out yourself, but its not megabeams either.
--------
"OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!"
-QBall
And
QQ is QQ |
Drutort
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Posted - 2003.09.04 02:50:00 -
[19]
yes why not have diminishing return weapon upgrades???
you know how sweet that would be???
right now the ones that we have should be right smack in the middle...
then others we should have that take away or do less dmg and do more ROF
and others do more DMG but less ROF
to the point were you can get your guns slower but very hard hitting
as well as were you can make your guns weaker but faster a lot faster...
the diminishing return should be done so in a way to be in balance
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2003.09.04 04:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Omniwar on 04/09/2003 04:58:07
I dont like the idea of putting the nerf on Tach¦s, they should boost hybrids and projectiles instead, but the strange thing is that the medium weps outclass large weps atm, but they shouldnt nerf rare mediums, just boost large ones, like they are doing now with the level 2 battleships.
Spawn of the Devil
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Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.09.04 06:09:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Actually some of you energy users (myself being one) can do a little experiment.
Calculate your DPS/cap use using 6 megas, then calculate using 1200 art. You will find that since you can mount more damage pumps and not worry about cap you can effectively do better damage with proj in an amarr ship. ie. 7 pumps and a CPU. as opposed to 4 pumps, CPU, 3 relays.
With the added bonus of having a bit of cap to run that hardener/shield recharger.
Not to mention the Proj pumps have that extra 1% RoF bonus over the energy pumps.
Must be that the devs only 'intended' energy to be used for killing NPCs.
Someone at CCP ought to give a full briefing on what this game is 'intended' to be so that we can at least have some foresight into the drastic changes they keep throwing out.
BINGO! Someone that finally grasps the big picture of how loadouts are actually done on the live server and not some *****ed out Chaos fightclub publicity shot from a laser done with 8 extruded heat sinks and the rare named large lasers that are availiable there.
When you add in all the OTHER cap draining things that ships have to run during a battle (tac shields, tracking comps, AB's, shield boosters, ECM, ect ect) anyone who is not totally biased will see why lasers are fast becomming utterly useless.
Since release it was apparent that CCP intended projectile weapons to do less damage per shot in a base configuration. They compensated by giving them lower fitting requirements, no cap drain, better damage mods, and the ability to do every damage type.
Hybrids generally had better tracking, better range, a slightly better overall damage type for both shield and armor (same as pfp for projectiles however).. in return they used some cap, had higher fitting requirements, and harder to fit damage modules.
Then when you come to lasers.. they had the best range, the best tracking, and the best (unhardened of course) damage against shields. In return they had the highest fitting requirements, the highest cap drain, and the worst availiable damage against armor.
A projectile user has no qualms whatsover about filling every low slot with a gyro to bring his projectiles WAY up from base. A hybrid user generally has no problems filling all but one low slot with damage mods and probably 1 cpu since his fitting requirements are higher than projectiles. A laser user generally can only fit a very limited number of damage mods in his low slots, because a CPU will be needed most definately, and several cap regens will also be needed most definately in order to have any staying power whatsoever in battle.
When you look at things in those terms.. it becomes clear that lasers are not the uber death star weapon of doom some people are making them out to be. And if you're not looking at the total package youre just commenting with blinders on.
Besides.. with the recent changes to missles all turrets are crap anyway when compared to launchers spweing 2000m/s torps that hit for 450 each time (minus any resists of course)irregardless if youre 1km or 100km from your target or how high the transverse velocity is.
You name me one turret that can deal that kinda of damage, over that wide a spectrum of conditions and I'll kiss your ass in the town square untill it draws a crowd. 
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Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.09.04 06:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Darth Maul on 04/09/2003 06:10:52
Stupid double post.
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.09.04 08:22:00 -
[23]
heh, that's why when i test something on chaos, i try to use everything i can get on tq.yes, i use about 2 more extruded on chaos(haven't got enough on tq yet so still have to use some skadi),but that's it, all other things are what i have or can easy get on tq. named version laser really screw any test because it not only get same dmg/rof/range etc bonus as other type named version, but also get cap drain bonus, that change the whole balance you could see.
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Archain
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Posted - 2003.09.04 13:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Archain on 04/09/2003 13:20:17
I'm surprised more people don't use the high DoT weapons like the Pulse laser, Ion/Neutron Cannon/Blaster or the Autocannons. Doesn't it make sense to rip a ship to shreds with constant damage instead of trying to punch a huge hole through it?
Space Invaders Movie Library - [SPVD]
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Kennian
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Posted - 2003.09.04 15:39:00 -
[25]
they need to cut ALL weapons damage in half...combat is way to quick....a duel between battleships should take a while, not the 30 seconds it is now...
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Chucky
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Posted - 2003.09.04 18:33:00 -
[26]
I think they should have solve balance issues in beta so players would not have wasted days or weeks on skills for items that have been nerfed to uselessness.
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2003.09.04 20:10:00 -
[27]
Hey, Chucky, your not up to speed on what beta testing is about. Check here.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Majin Buu
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Posted - 2003.09.04 20:19:00 -
[28]
tachs are going to be better next patch than they are atm :), with 600 damage every shot u wont ned to keep on firing with them. Also with the right skills the cap usage/dmg done is alot less in the next patch than it is atm
BoB KillBoard |
Capt Stern
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Posted - 2003.09.04 20:35:00 -
[29]
What are they doing here trying stop lasers from being used against NPCs? I use the the Hvy Modulated vs. Players and that is only a med turrent are they going to nerf all lasers or only the Taychon? If they nerf the Taychon then all they will affect is fights against NPCs. The previous poster was correct also that all laser users need most of their lower slots for cap regn and not damage Mods.
How many players are complaining about Tachyons used against them? I know I'm worring about the Hybrids not a tachyon when I'm fighting players. I think they are just going nerf happy on this one.
Lasers were the range king with this new change they move more to make them look like the other weapons. I liked that they had the range and not the damage. Why not just make one weapon and make it all the same stats if your going to change all the weapons toward the same goal. Then atleast we wouldn't have to all cry every time they make a really really really really stupid decision.
________________________________________________
"Don't worry Charlie I have an angle" - Captain Stern |
Runefinger
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Posted - 2003.09.05 00:34:00 -
[30]
just check the gun after the tachyon now... its better stats then the tachyon has in TQ now.........
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