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Degarion Soth	Posted - 2006.02.23 11:41:00 - [1] Now with the new patch the Sac is loosing its missle ROF and gaining a laser damage bonus. This has been mentioned before but please reconsider this. Can you please swap the "Medium Energy Turret optimal range" with the laser damage bonus and leave the missle ROF as is. The Sac was one of those ships where you would never quite guess the fitting, but with the proposed changes that will be out of the window. This way it would still increase the damage potention (much needed btw), keep it in line with the Khanid role and not make it a mini-Zealot. Please reconsider!
Deva Blackfire	Posted - 2006.02.23 11:46:00 - [2] I can only say: /signed Dont change sacri into another pure laser boat...
Celador Nane	Posted - 2006.02.23 11:49:00 - [3] Agreed, making it a poor zealot would be a waste of time, but i would like to see it changed somehow... atm i find little reason to get mine out of the hanger :/
Xeenon	Posted - 2006.02.23 11:49:00 - [4] Edited by: Xeenon on 23/02/2006 11:48:55 /signed Currently optimal bonus on suckrilige is useless. /Dream on But I wish Tux changed Sac to Khanid Missle Boat with bonuses like: Cruiser skill: 10% to heavy missle velocity, 5% to armor resists HAC skill: 5% to em heavy missle damage, 5% to heavy missle launcher rof 5 missle hardpoints, 2 turret hardpoint. /Dream off
Faruda	Posted - 2006.02.23 12:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Xeenon Edited by: Xeenon on 23/02/2006 11:48:55 /signed Currently optimal bonus on suckrilige is useless. /Dream on But I wish Tux changed Sac to Khanid Missle Boat with bonuses like: Cruiser skill: 10% to heavy missle velocity, 5% to armor resists HAC skill: 5% to em heavy missle damage, 5% to heavy missle launcher rof 5 missle hardpoints, 2 turret hardpoint. /Dream off Ammar slavers wish for Cerberus for the slavetrading forces. NEVER! Zealot is more than enough for us!
Kinsy	Posted - 2006.02.23 13:53:00 - [6] Edited by: Kinsy on 23/02/2006 13:53:53 Fine, but give it a 4th missile slot. Stop us having to waste time on half/half ships. Zealot IS more than enough for us, now please buy me some for less than 150m.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.02.23 13:55:00 - [7] its already known as the suckrelidge - personally i'd replace the turret optimal bonus with something like a 10% nos range or (preferably) 10% nos amount sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Xanta	Posted - 2006.02.23 14:00:00 - [8] bit boring just making it a crap zealot tbh
Tar Ecthelion	Posted - 2006.02.23 18:24:00 - [9] /signed. I like my sac setup with 3 hvy beam II, 3 heavy missle II. Gives you options to play around with. Lose the range bonus, change it for a laser/rof bonus please. ..... de gustibus non est disputandem
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.02.23 18:36:00 - [10] /me signed The sac is meant for heavy tanking and a Damage mod on guns only means a focus of additional guns over missile hardpoints, reallocating capacitor into the guns and leaving less for a tank. Please consider giving back the RoF bonus or perhaps adding a missile damage bonus (ala Inquisitor) so that the Sac can remain a heavy tanking ship with a generally unpredictable loadout. --------------

Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.02.23 18:56:00 - [11] I suggested in the above sticky, keep the RoF bonus and give it EM missile damage instead of optimal laser range. Would make it a bigger malediction and better damage dealer. The shield to armor change is ok. ------ Ö Ship lover
Forsch	Posted - 2006.02.23 19:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Hellspawn01 I suggested in the above sticky, keep the RoF bonus and give it EM missile damage instead of optimal laser range. Would make it a bigger malediction and better damage dealer. The shield to armor change is ok. That would be nice! And to top it off, add 1 missile slot. That would be a ship I'd love to fly. ________________________________________________________________ Forsch Defender of the empire
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.02.23 19:10:00 - [13] /signed And I dont even fly Amarr...
Malken	Posted - 2006.02.23 19:11:00 - [14] w00t more cross posting 4tw, there is a sticky thread about this already.
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.02.23 19:27:00 - [15] Originally by: Malken w00t more cross posting 4tw, there is a sticky thread about this already. No its not. Someone unsticky¦ed it. Also my "Attention tux" post got locked due to some clueless forum mod (prove that I¦m wrong with this one). Looks like they dont like our defensive position on this one. Conspiracy anyone? ------ Ö Ship lover
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.02.23 20:03:00 - [16] Obviously
Selim	Posted - 2006.02.23 20:05:00 - [17] Armor-tanking missile spammer, please.
Tomsudy	Posted - 2006.02.23 21:15:00 - [18] having just got the sac the optimal bonus is absoulutely no use signed another way to increase the damage and make it more powerful would be to add anotehr high slot adding to the damage potential of the ship but that wasjust a freeky idea i had ________________________________________ Warlords corp Core Collective council member
Wheya	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:14:00 - [19] Edited by: Wheya on 23/02/2006 22:16:13 With the coming changes as a producer I expect to sell more Sacrileges which is good for my wallet. This changes are good for PvE although the Zealot will stay the better mission runner. Sacrilege becomes the carebear version of the Zealot. More tanking but less damage. For PvP this is a nerf especially against Minmatar t2 ships. The Sacrilege will deal even less damage because using the damage type of missiles wisely increased the damage output. I know I will miss the missiles. I also invested lots of skillpoints on two accounts in missiles solely for the Sacrilege which now turns out to be a complete waste. I have not yet tried to fit a Sacrilege with lasers. I fear Nosferatus won't be an option anymore because of powergrid issues. I admit I have not really tested laser based loadouts. I will try some setups before making more comments on this issue. There are two things I am hoping for: 1.) some amarrian missile boats in future 2.) more damage types for crystals
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Degarion Soth Now with the new patch the Sac is loosing its missle ROF and gaining a laser damage bonus. This has been mentioned before but please reconsider this. Can you please swap the "Medium Energy Turret optimal range" with the laser damage bonus and leave the missle ROF as is. The Sac was one of those ships where you would never quite guess the fitting, but with the proposed changes that will be out of the window. This way it would still increase the damage potention (much needed btw), keep it in line with the Khanid role and not make it a mini-Zealot. Please reconsider! signed this doesnt help sacs dps, just means the sac is another, still crappier then zealot, turret ship. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!

Nyphur	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:23:00 - [21] Originally by: Foomanshoe this doesnt help sacs dps, just means the sac is another, still crappier then zealot, turret ship. The Amarr have never been missile-users. The Sac is for close-range high-speed combat and tanking. It performs admirably at that task. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:27:00 - [22] It's not fast, for one. It's generally useless because if you want to use it for the one thing it does ok, tanking, you might aswell use a fully insurable Apoc with stock mods. Less cost, more bang. Contact 'The Enslaver' ingame for good prices on Cap Recharger IIs, Zealots, Vagabonds and several other Tech2 Items + HACs!
Guardian Alpha	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:28:00 - [23] Quote: The Amarr have never been missile-users But their variations due to the Khanid are not something to ignore. Malediction, Apoc, Inquisitor, and so forth all have missile slots avaliable for the use of missile damage. The inquisitor itself has an impressive bonus to all damage types for missiles. It isn't unheard of in the amarrian race but remains a common stereotype. Kali should break this stereotype in particular. ------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin
Bazman	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:31:00 - [24] Nerf the Sacraledge please. I don't want elve killing anything more than he already does. Thanks ----- Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks.
Elve Sorrow	Posted - 2006.02.23 22:32:00 - [25] Edited by: Elve Sorrow on 23/02/2006 22:32:49 Go die please. Nubcakes. Contact 'The Enslaver' ingame for good prices on Cap Recharger IIs, Zealots, Vagabonds and several other Tech2 Items + HACs!
Vishnej	Posted - 2006.02.24 03:53:00 - [26] Keep the weapons setup how it is, but make it the exceptional tank that it used to be (rather than also-ran to the Eagle, which is also the best sniper). 7.5% to armor + shield resists per level. This is a Khanid ship, and Khanid do things differently - that means shield tanking and armor tanking should both be possibilities, and it should be good at them. And add 200 cap, to match the boasting on the description about its capacitor banks(in reality it's only 50 cap above the runner up). It would make the thing a decent heavy tackler again: even if it's slow as crap, you're not going to pop the thing easily before it reaches you. Industry Demands
Muthsera	Posted - 2006.02.24 04:11:00 - [27] Hemm. I got to say that optimal bonus for me was always such a waste. It won't be a good range ship like the eagle and the zealot becus they got the rof bonus. And the optimal does so litte anyway. Originally by: Wheya Edited by: Wheya on 23/02/2006 22:16:13 With the coming changes as a producer I expect to sell more Sacrileges which is good for my wallet. This changes are good for PvE although the Zealot will stay the better mission runner. Sacrilege becomes the carebear version of the Zealot. More tanking but less damage. For PvP this is a nerf especially against Minmatar t2 ships. The Sacrilege will deal even less damage because using the damage type of missiles wisely increased the damage output. I know I will miss the missiles. I also invested lots of skillpoints on two accounts in missiles solely for the Sacrilege which now turns out to be a complete waste. I have not yet tried to fit a Sacrilege with lasers. I fear Nosferatus won't be an option anymore because of powergrid issues. I admit I have not really tested laser based loadouts. I will try some setups before making more comments on this issue. There are two things I am hoping for: 1.) some amarrian missile boats in future 2.) more damage types for crystals 1. The verdict is out. I dunno if it will be such an asset tbh. 2. I bloody well hope so. However I think I'll be dreaming on that one for a long time. Otherwise I got to agree whit you a lot of what you said. except maybe thet pvp aspect being a nerf. Atleast many other players will be flying it now, if that comes to a nerf or not I dunno. It will have some new ranges now though. I don't think it will be able to fit tank + lasers + nos now though. Very unlikely. Maybe it whould have been better to go all the way on missiles instead of all the way on lasers. I have a feeling the sac will stay an experiment ship for the amarr race for years to come still. It's such an "inbetween". When it comes to the carebear bit. I think your right. Many will go over to this one becus of tanking abillity. For pvp it will always be second rate to the zealot becus of the zealots high dps and good tanking abillity. My thoughs
Hellspawn01	Posted - 2006.02.24 12:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Muthsera Hemm. I got to say that optimal bonus for me was always such a waste. It won't be a good range ship like the eagle and the zealot because they got the rof bonus. And the optimal does so litte anyway. 1. The verdict is out. I dunno if it will be such an asset tbh. 2. I bloody well hope so. However I think I'll be dreaming on that one for a long time. Otherwise I got to agree whit you a lot of what you said. except maybe thet pvp aspect being a nerf. Atleast many other players will be flying it now, if that comes to a nerf or not I dunno. It will have some new ranges now though. I don't think it will be able to fit tank + lasers + nos now though. Very unlikely. Maybe it whould have been better to go all the way on missiles instead of all the way on lasers. I have a feeling the sac will stay an experiment ship for the amarr race for years to come still. It's such an "inbetween". When it comes to the carebear bit. I think your right. Many will go over to this one becus of tanking abillity. For pvp it will always be second rate to the zealot becus of the zealots high dps and good tanking abillity. It was the best armor tank as seen in a short movie vs at least 2x BS and small support. I loved teh suckrilege setup but this wont be possible after the patch anymore. Not with the current grid amount. TUXFORD!! GET IN HERE!!! ------ Ö Ship lover
Foomanshoe	Posted - 2006.02.25 21:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Foomanshoe this doesnt help sacs dps, just means the sac is another, still crappier then zealot, turret ship. The Amarr have never been missile-users. The Sac is for close-range high-speed combat and tanking. It performs admirably at that task. Sorry we are talking about the Sacrilige, not the zealot. Sacrilige is slow and of Khalid (who do use missiles, plz read pf and look at malediction, damnation, vengence, etc.)design. The problem with Khalid is they dont do thinks how you typically think of when you would combine 2 racial technologies. Normally you would take the best of each to make something good, not half of each. Now, logically, Caldari have great shields and great missiles. Amarr have great lasers and great armor. You dont take half shields, half armor, half missiles, and half lasers like the devs did and think its going to work. You go from great to meh. Would be better if it was a laser/shield boat, or a missile/armor boat. Neither of those currently exists in eve, and specialized would be great. Personally, id perfer the missile/armor boat as who hasnt wanted the sustainability that armor tanking provides, with the versitility that missiles provide? What amarrian pilot hasnt wanted to beable to use kinetic damage against minmatar HACs? Well, so long to the dream of a amarr HAC being able to damage a minmatar one. Here i thought the amarr empire was the biggest in eve, and had strong ships and used to subjugate the minmatar, and the minmatar resorted to mainly hit and run tactics. Enjoy being stuck with EM damage then, if you think that this is a good change. Im sure the vagabond pilots are happy as its just another amarr ship that is impotent against them. _______________________________________________ Deadspace For Dead space! Originally by: Oveur To the nerfmobile!
Dash Ripcock	Posted - 2006.02.26 10:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Foomanshoe Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Foomanshoe this doesnt help sacs dps, just means the sac is another, still crappier then zealot, turret ship. The Amarr have never been missile-users. The Sac is for close-range high-speed combat and tanking. It performs admirably at that task. Sorry we are talking about the Sacrilige, not the zealot. Sacrilige is slow and of Khalid (who do use missiles, plz read pf and look at malediction, damnation, vengence, etc.)design. The problem with Khalid is they dont do thinks how you typically think of when you would combine 2 racial technologies. Normally you would take the best of each to make something good, not half of each. Now, logically, Caldari have great shields and great missiles. Amarr have great lasers and great armor. You dont take half shields, half armor, half missiles, and half lasers like the devs did and think its going to work. You go from great to meh. Would be better if it was a laser/shield boat, or a missile/armor boat. Neither of those currently exists in eve, and specialized would be great. Personally, id perfer the missile/armor boat as who hasnt wanted the sustainability that armor tanking provides, with the versitility that missiles provide? What amarrian pilot hasnt wanted to beable to use kinetic damage against minmatar HACs? Well, so long to the dream of a amarr HAC being able to damage a minmatar one. Here i thought the amarr empire was the biggest in eve, and had strong ships and used to subjugate the minmatar, and the minmatar resorted to mainly hit and run tactics. Enjoy being stuck with EM damage then, if you think that this is a good change. Im sure the vagabond pilots are happy as its just another amarr ship that is impotent against them. Pretty much how I feel concerning Khanid designs. Look at the Sacrilege in its current state: she has more shields than armour due to her cross-breeding, yet she has a bonus to armour resistances and four med-slots. Good grief CCP û if you're going to make her a hybrid don't make her a jack of all trades! A shield-tanked laser platform or an armour-tanked missile platform would add a lot of spice to the game, and would make you seriously think about whether to go for raw DPS on the Zealot of more specialised DPS on the Sacrilege (concerning the latter option). It would also give them a chance against Minmatar T2 ships. Giving her a laser bonus means she'll just be a weaker Zealot with high resistances. Not really a unique selling point is it... Being realistic here û will anyone sit up and take notice? This was all voiced in the sticky, but nobody in an official position bothered to reply and just de-stickied the eleven-page thread and left it to float to the bottom. So, everyone who posted in there now has the impression it did net nothing. The Firing Range



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