1.) Changing corporations while in space while next to a war target to surprise them, or to get them concorded.
Fix - While in lowsec/highsec prevent members from joining/leaving a corporation while it's at war if they're in space and a war target is in system.

2.) Wardecced corporations may join and leave an alliance to escape any wardec. This is commonly used to save reinforced towers without the attackers having any chance.
Fix - There is much debate how to fix this. Possibilities include corporations do not drop wardecs upon leaving alliance. Corporations with reinforced towers take longer to drop wardecs. An added delay for corporations to leave their alliance if at war, etc.

3.) Dec Shields (a dec shield is when you have many alt corporations wardec your shielded corp such that any future incoming wardec costs against you will be inflated substantially). These are fine if the incoming wardecs are actually being paid (as then it actually costs ISK to maintain, but that's not how they're used. You can toggle a war mutual right before the bill comes and the incoming attacker does not have to pay for that week, and then untoggle mutual to restore the shield. This allows dec shields of infinite size to be maintained for free, while still costing new attacks much money.
Fix - If a war is set to unmutual then the aggressor has to pay the bill within X time or the war is declared invalid.

4.) A corporation that has left an alliance cannot be wardecced until after the next downtime.
Fix - A corporation that has left an alliance can be wardecced.

5.) Corporations join an alliance 24.5hrs before their tower comes out of reinforced. Alliance fleet surrounds enemy fleet who then instantly becomes valid war targets without any warning. This is a version of #1.
Fix - When a corporation you're at war with is accepted into an alliance it sends a warning message that the war will carry over to X alliance in 24hrs.

*stuff*

I have been offering free wardec removal to any corporation in efforts to bring attention to the situation. There is no reason what I do should be legal.

Your complaining about something your doing?

Then why continue doing it? This is confusing.

One of the best ways to bring attention to game-breaking loopholes is to abuse them so badly the developers HAVE to fix it.

thats like begging to get banned.

2.) Wardecced corporations may join and leave an alliance to escape any wardec. This is commonly used to save reinforced towers without the attackers having any chance.
Fix - There is much debate how to fix this. Possibilities include corporations do not drop wardecs upon leaving alliance. Corporations with reinforced towers take longer to drop wardecs. An added delay for corporations to leave their alliance if at war, etc.

Wardecs have always been and will always be pointless. As long as they follow the corp and not the player, they can and will be evaded. In effect, this means wardecs affect only people who care about their corp name, have a POS they can't take down quickly, and the clueless. Any change to wardecs that makes them against individuals will lead to those people leaving the game. They don't want to fight. They aren't going to fight. There is nothing you or CCP can do to make them. Period. The End. There is no fix for wardecs. Just get rid of them. Ganking is, was, and will always be the only way to get individuals.

The only failing of the change to wardec policing by the GMs is POS destruction. The only solutions that are needed are ones that make POS bashing in hisec possible.

Also, you forgot the biggest war dec exploit of all ... hiding your ISK-earning high sec alts in NPC corporations.

whine & butthurt

An easy solution to war dec greifing.


A corp or alliance has to have an in space destroyable resource to declare war on another corp or alliance.

It's called your ship/pod.

well, until the door opens and i can hunt you down in station, that's not a viable option to hurt a turtle.

Your missing the point.

War Decs happen to specifically take your ship and pod down.

Everything else is just the means to an end.

If you havn't figured that out yet....you have no business posting your ideas to attempt to solve this so called paradox.

You can do that without a wardec, just ask the goonies and all the blue ice miners in empire.
i don't miss the point, i get the point that its currently a way for cowards and greifers to get their rocks off. Whats the matter, don't like the mark fighting back? well tough. Carebears have teeth, and when you figure that out, you run and hide, and we want our chance to bite back, were hungry for your pod too. but concord wont let us crack you out of a station, so, no risk, no reward as you PvP'rs like to say.

Have you ever heard the expression, GÇ£You can lead a horse to water, but you canGÇÖt make him drinkGÇ¥? The fundamental issue here is that some people just donGÇÖt want to fight. The devs and GMs and mercenaries may wish otherwise and may seek to find ways to force the issue, but those efforts are doomed to failure.

If a dec mechanic locked a corporation into an alliance (or out of one) and locked every single member into that corporation for the duration of the war, it would only lead to people leaving the game. The only result of a push to force people to PvP is that there will be no PvP from those people. ItGÇÖs just not going to happen. Just like its not happening now, just like it hasnGÇÖt been happening for years. The change to wardec policing changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that canGÇÖt be taken down quickly, and those who donGÇÖt know better. ThatGÇÖs it.

CCP should spend a little time gathering information from those players about why they donGÇÖt want to fight. Or under what conditions they would.

At the end of the day, this is what weGÇÖre really talking about when weGÇÖre talking about wardec shields and evasion. Like it or not, you can lead a carebear to war, but you canGÇÖt make him fight.

Wardecs have always been and will always be pointless. As long as they follow the corp and not the player, they can and will be evaded. In effect, this means wardecs affect only people who care about their corp name, have a POS they can't take down quickly, and the clueless. Any change to wardecs that makes them against individuals will lead to those people leaving the game. They don't want to fight. They aren't going to fight. There is nothing you or CCP can do to make them. Period. The End. There is no fix for wardecs. Just get rid of them.
Ganking is, was, and will always be the only way to get individuals.

The only failing of the change to wardec policing by the GMs is POS destruction. The only solutions that are needed are ones that make POS bashing in hisec possible.

Whenever I hear about extending decs to individual pilots, I just shake my head in amazement. What is it that you think will happen? People avoid decs for a reason. They're not interested in fighting. So what happens when the war gets tagged on to the character? Do these people magically decide to change several year's worth of behavior and playstyle and come out with guns blazing? The potential for never ending griefing that goes with putting decs (or kill rights) on individuals is simply too great and its effect is all too predictable.

If you want to kill something, get your ass to losec/nosec. PvP'ers in hisec are making a paradoxical argument: they want to kill whomever they please, but they don't want non-consensual PvP from anyone else. Choose one or the other; you're either for non-consensual PvP for all or for none.

2.) Wardecced corporations may join and leave an alliance to escape any wardec. This is commonly used to save reinforced towers without the attackers having any chance.
Fix - There is much debate how to fix this. Possibilities include corporations do not drop wardecs upon leaving alliance. Corporations with reinforced towers take longer to drop wardecs. An added delay for corporations to leave their alliance if at war, etc.

Here's another possible fix. Every war is assigned an 'original target', which may be an alliance, corporation or even a single character. If the original target is a corp, then it follows that corp as it joins and leaves alliances. If the original target is a character, it follows when that character changes corp. If the character joins an NPC corp, the war is still there, but reverts to a 'cannot fight' status until such time as the character rejoins a player corp.

3.) Dec Shields (a dec shield is when you have many alt corporations wardec your shielded corp such that any future incoming wardec costs against you will be inflated substantially). These are fine if the incoming wardecs are actually being paid (as then it actually costs ISK to maintain, but that's not how they're used. You can toggle a war mutual right before the bill comes and the incoming attacker does not have to pay for that week, and then untoggle mutual to restore the shield. This allows dec shields of infinite size to be maintained for free, while still costing new attacks much money.
Fix - If a war is set to unmutual then the aggressor has to pay the bill within X time or the war is declared invalid.

Not that I can see any reason anyone would make a war mutual, when they can just let their aggressors waste ISK...

An easy solution to war dec greifing.


A corp or alliance has to have an in space destroyable resource to declare war on another corp or alliance. Pos, or TCU. This asset becomes broadcast to the other party involved in a wardec. And the asset can only be used in one wardec at a time. if you wish to wardec more than one organization, additional assets need to be allocated for declaration.

If the said target is destroyed, then the war dec is over at that instant. if in the case of an alliance. If the corp that owns that resource leaves the alliance, the war dec follows the tower or TCU.

This could be expanded further, to high sec and null sec war decs. but null sec would need a lot more "resources" and give and take to make it useful.

This will allow the receiving corp/alliance an opportunity to turn the tables on a corp or alliance that declares war only to turtle up in a station. let the organization declaring war put up something of value as a risk.

I support this thread. First off, shooting at a POS should be like shooting at a wreck or a can. By shooting at it, you are granting the owners kill rights against you. It would mean that POS owners would need to protect their POSes at all times. It would also mean that a large group of pilots would be required to maintain a POS. This is to greater enable the ability to fight over resources.

Second, "conditional" war-decs. My opinion- war-decs should be about a fight over resources (and sometimes revenge). Basically, when you declare war against a corp/alliance, you pay for a number of "conditions". For instance, if your alliance feels that another alliance is mining "your" ore in a system, you can declare a "conditional" war-dec that grants you priviledges to kill any mining ships from the enemy alliance that are found in the target system. Similarly, if your alliance desires trading rights within a system, you can declare a "conditional" war-dec against an opponent, granting you kill rights against any industrial/freighter ships that are brought into the system. Of course, if those mining ships or industrials are escorted by PvP ships, then you have to weigh your options on whether to shoot at them or not. Note- they would not be able to fire upon you first unless they declare the war "mutual" (which then removes the costs that your corp/alliance would have paid).

The more "conditions" you pay for, the more expensive the war-dec will be. A conditional war-dec that targets multiple systems will cost more than one that targets just one system (perhaps a constellation would be the next step up, followed by a region). Furthermore, conditions not related to "resources", would cost significantly more. For instance, if you want total revenge war, the war-dec will cost an arm and leg (potentially upwards of 100s of millions), but could allow for full-on combat anywhere in space.

Conditions would expire 15 minutes after leaving the target system(s). For instance, a cargo ship is shot at, and successfully runs through a gate. The aggressor can still pursue, and maintain kill rights for 15 minutes after the cargo ship leaves the target system(s). This is similar to the 15 minute kill-rights timer from shooting a can/wreck.

What's the point of all this? 1.) War-decs would still allow all-out war, for a price, 2.) POSes in high-sec would have to be supported by large corps/alliances to fight off both ad-hoc and organized assaults, 3.) corps/alliances that wish to push out the competition from a region can do so, and 4.) suicide ganking is still just fine.

Follow-on thoughts: The ability to "see corp members in space" would be a priviledge granted only by the CEO to trusted players. I would further suggest removing pilots from LOCAL unless they have spoken recently. D-scan and combat probes would rule the day.

Be careful what you ask for. If CCP revisits the war-dec system, they may not just close a few loopholes, but overhaul war-dec mechanics entirely. This may or may not be to your advantage, depending on your play style.

Also, you forgot the biggest war dec exploit of all ... hiding your ISK-earning high sec alts in NPC corporations.