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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
t00r
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Posted - 2003.09.04 21:38:00 -
[61]
I consider my bs, with my harvy drones, a piece of advanced mining equipment. |
CLONE 9
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Posted - 2003.09.04 21:42:00 -
[62]
What Eve says about the Megathron:
 Quote:
The Megathron has established itself as one of the most feared and respected battleships around. Since itĘs first appearance almost two decades ago it has seen considerable service in the troublesome regions on the outskirts of the Federation, helping to expand and defend Gallentean preeminence there.
What Eve doesn't say :
Quote:
The Megathron - rather nice piece of advanced mining equipment
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Drake Kazayama
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Posted - 2003.09.04 21:44:00 -
[63]
Quote:
Perhaps im getting confused at all the points ppl r putting across, but i was under the impression i was arguing for the fact that can mining wasn't an illusion and nothing else. I did read ur post, i understood it, and it had good input/views. Theres no need to have a sly dig at the bottom. So u have a good point... so does everyone else. This has turned from a debate into kinder garden babble. Yes, i have added to the babble. But like urself, i put across a good point & get shot down with pathetic childish responses.
We all have good points. Yes I understand how the victims feel when I recover their ore, but they take no measures to secure their property. If they cared about it so much, why do they let it sit out in space?
I think we should all stop this arguing amongst ourselves. The real problem here, once again, is CCPs lack of response. Will the dev team ever respond to this thread?
Perhaps we should band together... and get CCP to give in to our demands. Once again, the only way to solve this problem is to:
1) lower the jettisoned can capacity to 100,
2) raise the jettisoned can buffer to 10 minutes and lower the life expectancy to 30 minutes.
3) allow trade windows in space when less than 1500m from the trader.
4) fix the bugged secures
5) create vehicles specifically for mining, or allow more than 1 mining laser to be put in an indy (seriously, 2 high slots, but only 1 turret mount? I'd like to see indys have 1 weapon turret mount, 4 mounts for mining lasers only, and add a drone capacity of atleast 100m3.)
6) do not add criminal flag to container picking. This would not be needed if the above demands are met.
You all need to realize we're all on the same side.
Lets stop the bickering, and join forces. Flood the board with these demands. E-mail the dev team. Let your words be read by those who can change this situation. We will be victorious.
We will call ourselves the People for the Removal of Exploit Containers, or PREC. (ha... kinda sounds like that word t00r called me once...)
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t00r
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Posted - 2003.09.04 21:46:00 -
[64]
No, but eve does say this;
Quote:
CCP:When the player has mastered the basics of the game, amassed some money and equipment and advanced his/her character through basic skills, the possibilities become almost endless. Players who wish to explore peaceful paths can continue to upgrade their ships to bigger and better-defended cargo vessels, purchase advanced mining or research equipment, and continue to develop their character by specializing in their preferred skills.
My preffered skill is a miner. How can i advance my skill without having a better ship to do it in. The possibilities wouldnt be endless if i could only mine with an imi.
Like i said. My bs is a piece of advanced mining equip. |
Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.04 22:11:00 -
[65]
Finally, some poeple are starting to make sense.
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Freddy Krueger
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Posted - 2003.09.04 22:32:00 -
[66]
Ore thiefs are scum, just as bad if not worse than gate camping noncing pirates. Do what I did, although costly, blow the bugger up with your well armed ship. Although Concord blew the hell out of me, the satisfaction was worth the sacrifice.
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.04 22:46:00 -
[67]
HERE IT IS.....
READY?
IF YOU JETTISON SOMETHING IT IS GARBAGE!!! JETTISON WASN'T CREATED SO THAT YOU COULD USE THE SUBSEQUENT CONTAINER AS A HOLDING AREA FOR YOUR ORE, BLUEPRINTS, LOOT, SPACE MONKEYS, OR ANYTHING ELSE.... ALBEIT A NICE IDEA.
OK?!?! OK?!?!
I'm sorry... I'm being insensitive... I'll give a real-life space jettison example...
Modern day (2003) space shuttles and capsules jettison stuff all the time and they usually don't want it back. Unless they are saving fecal bricks for "refining" back at the international space station. 
Posting for Numbnutz |
Doctor Arkangel
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Posted - 2003.09.04 22:49:00 -
[68]
P.S. - the above is not an ore thief nor supports ore thievery. Ore thieves must die but please please people stop the fussing about ore stealing..... |
Skelator
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Posted - 2003.09.04 22:59:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Skelator on 04/09/2003 23:01:26
Quote:
What? WTF is wrong with you? Just don't post if you don't have anything worth while to say.
Well I Do its "PART" of the "Game Rules" just like a Referee is part of the field in American Football.
If He causes a Receiver to drop a Pass for the winning touchdown with no time Left, They DONT give the receiver another chance because it is in the RULES.
Unforunately thats the way all games are
They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards |
Fetty Chico
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Posted - 2003.09.04 23:06:00 -
[70]
possetion is 9/10ths
------------------------------------------------
Tell my tale to those who ask.
Tell it truly - the ill deeds, along with the good - and let me be judged accordingly.
If this world was supposed to be friendly
CCP wouldnt have wasted time paying the devs to code so many weapons |
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agrizla
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Posted - 2003.09.05 00:36:00 -
[71]
Edited by: agrizla on 05/09/2003 00:39:32
Edited by: agrizla on 05/09/2003 00:38:01
Quote:
Edited by: t00r on 04/09/2003 21:21:15
Quote:
and you don't care which n00bs you tread on to get your own greedy way.
said the ore thief to the miner.
Perhaps you'd like to hear what happened to an online friend of mine? He couldn't complete the tutorial for the simple reason there was nothing left in the belt to mine. In addition to that the surrounding systems had a few small veld roids left - that was it. I helped him out but he'd have given up otherwise - we all know how we learned the game don't we? We mined and picked up tips from other players as we mined (I exclude beta players from this).
Why was he in this situation? I'll tell you why. It's because of griefing carebears. Yes you did read that right! Go take a little trip around the starter systems (and the safe adjacent systems). It won't take you very long to spot a fleet of battleships with accompanying drones/indys stripmining. Some of them take great pleasure in mining every last roid in a belt/system and view it as an achievement.
Way to go! I have a BS and loads of drones and I can sit in a newbie system and mine all the ore.
You want to do that? Fine, but don't come moaning here because you're using a cargo container that was not meant for the purpose!
Yes huge secure cans are stuffed. Everyone knows they are. They are getting fixed in the next patch.
As Helmar himself has said - if you jettison anything then it no longer belongs to you. You were never intended to mine into jettisoned cans so STOP WHINING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DO!
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Rizmordan Hillgotlieb
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Posted - 2003.09.05 01:16:00 -
[72]
Amen agri! |
Enraku Reynolt
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Posted - 2003.09.05 01:29:00 -
[73]
..why bother saying that Ag
it never stops
------------------------------------------------
Do not let the world change you.
Change the world
Here's everything I know about war: somebody wins, somebody loses, and nothing is ever the sa |
agrizla
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Posted - 2003.09.05 01:42:00 -
[74]
I know but there's times the muppets get to you and you can't help responding
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t00r
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Posted - 2003.09.05 03:30:00 -
[75]
Quote:
I know but there's times the muppets get to you and you can't help responding
rest assured, some of us feel exactly the same way...
I think we've established the fact about what the rules say & how much a 'part of the game' it is & we all accept that now, it was starting to turn into a fairly decent discussion. |
Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 08:22:00 -
[76]
Quote:
This is ironic as hell. You justify thieving from jettisoned cans because it's allowed within the game mechanics, but if someone uses a BS to strip mine in 1.0 they should nerf the BS's to keep them from mounting mining lasers? If you have the one, brother, you gotta have the other. One's fair in your eyes and the other not fair in your eyes. I'll use the common arguement if favour of the ore theives: It's part of the game.
I'd have to agree with that. |
Boneca
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Posted - 2003.09.05 08:30:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Boneca on 05/09/2003 08:31:43
"First of all, Kozak is right on this. 100%. This issue is one that arose out of an accidental combination of 'fixes' to other facets of the game.
>>
It's a game these people play within the rules if you don't like the rules don't play.
These people aren't even thieves in the eyes of Concord they perform a very valuable task , namely clearing up the junk you dump into space
<<
This sort of quote is the same retarded junior-high bullcrap I see repeated time and again by ore *****s.
This situation is not within the 'rules' - it is simply enabled by a poor combination of technical details. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, one originally was allowed to shoot a thief and not have Concord immediately pop in, as if they were waiting 10km off. "
First time i have been quoted and i get called an ore ***** which i am not , i have had ore taken myself and i keep a "cheap" cruiser at stn which i am prepared to lose to concord jus to teach these ppl a lesson.
Please read the FAQ's section of this web site where it clearly says that this IS within the rules
People who come to these boards whining because they can't accept the stated rules are the sort of people who should still be in Junior-High learning to read.
I do agree however that this situation is brought about by a flaw in the game play mechanics and therfore jettisoned cans should have a limit of 100m3 which would solve this situation once and for all
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.09.05 08:46:00 -
[78]
Shut up about ore thieves already.
Noone can steal from your cargohold, so bring the ore to the closest station, dump it there, and go back to mine some more.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Sourus
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Posted - 2003.09.05 09:38:00 -
[79]
Yes, you're right. But this issue will never go away because of this:
Drop mining = risk (OK)
Ore thieving = no risk (not OK)
Introduce some kind of penalty for theifs and people will stop whining.
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Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 10:55:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 11:04:35
Quote:
Yes, you're right. But this issue will never go away because of this:
Drop mining = risk (OK)
Ore thieving = no risk (not OK)
Introduce some kind of penalty for theifs and people will stop whining.
Nice idea but flawed. Why should there be a risk associated with taking jettisoned items in a safe system?
In any MMORPG there should always be a good balanced risk-verus-reward system but only when dealng with NPC situations. That is, the risk of hunting NPC rats is they can kill you - The reward reflects the difficulty of the rat. However, jettisoned cargo is a player created scenario.
In no other MMORPG in existance is there a rule against taking items that another player has dropped on the ground. In fact, in some games the NPCs are the first to take it!
The fact is that there is no risk-versus-reward against looting jetted cargo because, without players jetting the cargo in the first place, there should be no cargo to loot (besides discarded loot - again in any MMORPG this is the norm and is fair game to take by anyone).
However!
There is a risk-versus-reward aspect to using unsecure containers in this way. There has to be. The fact remains that by doing this the player is increasing their yield by using infinite space to store their loot. It has to be more risky, therefore, than doing it the normal way. Otherwise, why limit cargo bays at all? May as well just make them all infinite in size if you can get away with using infinite sized containers to do the storage job for you, without any risk at all.
I totally agree that this would all be solved if huge secure containers worked, but until that is fixed this is the work-around. Make as many examples, allusions and points as you like - that is the way it is and nothing will change that except a patch.
I do wonder, however, if this fix (ever may it come) will erradicate these types of threads - Knowing what I do about online game message boards I have reason to doubt that.
Tell you what - Seeing as there are so many real-life examples here (that I think hold no water because this is a game) I'll give you an example of it from another game: Everquest.
This has changed with patches but it used to be the way that you could not transfer items between your own characters of one account (because you could only have one online at any time) unless you got someone to help you who you trusted.
What players would do to get around this was find a quiet spot and drop the items on the floor, quickly log the other character on and pick it up. This worked fine unless the player got disconnected and couldn't log back in before the loot dissapeared, or - of course - another player stumbled by their loot, picked it up and hit the jackpot.
The risk is knowingly taken. And, as with can mining, it is a risk to save time for the player taking that risk.
Much as EVE tries to emulate real life (based on fictional ideals) it would be very difficult to impliment a law system that is so diverse that it can know when an item is discarded, or being dropped to store things (which, erm, it shouldn't be used for anyway).
Secures are there for that so, until CCP change the bug, what is there to complain about? |
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Deadflip2
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Posted - 2003.09.05 11:21:00 -
[81]
what i do about can stealers.... mhh lemme think... i follow them yo their station, tell them im outside ready to shoot him on sight... unless he pays 5 times what he stole back... or i just threatned to kill them if they get within 5 km of my can... problem is that above 0.5 or 0.4 concord really comes to have revenge..
cpp should think of some way to fix this.. stealers should drop in sec rate... for example a rule wich makes you capable of attacking people not in you group or in you corp freely for a couple a minutes without concord interfearing.
---
"this song reminds me of the girl i met on a schooltrip, she was really nice, and she really liked me.
I forgot to ask her her phone number" - Nelix trist
OMG im a pretzel!!! |
Ch'ryl
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Posted - 2003.09.05 11:24:00 -
[82]
Quote:
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 11:04:35
Quote:
Secures are there for that so, until CCP change the bug, what is there to complain about?
Er, maybe the fact that they haven't changed the bug and that there's no other way of doing it until they do?
Why is it that when someone tells you that there are over a billion stars in the universe, you believe them, but if they tell you there is wet paint somewhere, you have to touch it to make sure? |
Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.05 11:53:00 -
[83]
So let me get this straight...
1) Don't use unsecured containers, use the 780 unit secure containers and litter a belt with a few dozen of those.
2) Don't jetisson ore, take it back to base every 2 minutes (that's how long it takes to fill a thorax)
The first scenario will create so much lag that we'll get even more post about that.
The second will make mining so tidious and even more time consuming that people who've hung around using jetissoned cans will be fed up and leave.
We have a couple of members in the corp that are already wanting to leave to SWG due to the tidiousness of mining.
I've told a few noobs too use jetisonned containers because they were asking me if mining is always so boring and time consuming.
Well, if that's the solution, then guess what...
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Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:00:00 -
[84]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 11:04:35
Quote:
Secures are there for that so, until CCP change the bug, what is there to complain about?
Er, maybe the fact that they haven't changed the bug and that there's no other way of doing it until they do?
You missed the point. I'll rephrase it:
what is there to complain to other players about?
There. |
Kozak
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:03:00 -
[85]
Well, any discussion on these forums usually hopes to get the attension of CCP so we can see some changes. Other wise, we'd have the same game that I bought on May 6th.
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Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:10:00 -
[86]
Kozac, you miss the point there. Those are your options, along with the other option: 3) Use unsec cans to store your cargo and accept the risks that accompany it until CCP do something about it.
I think the general message in the replies to your original post is that you shouldn't blame players for something that isn't their fault, especially when what they are doing is allowed.
Honestly, if you and your friends find the original (and time-honoured) way of mining in games boring and no fun [As I've said before, no other single game of this style has ever allowed you to have infinite storage space - especially online ones] then perhaps you should find another game to play.
But no, you enjoy it still because you can use those infinite space cargo containers which make things easier for you - What you want is to have that luxury without any added risk. Sorry, but that's just not the way games are supposed to be. Any game. Not just EVE.
So, what if CCP patched the game and limited the space of those containers and fixed the secure ones... Would that satisfy you?
If the answer is yes, then complain to CCP - Not other players. I think that is a fair point, isn't it?
Nutshell, in a. |
Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:12:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 12:15:37
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 12:13:46
Quote:
Well, any discussion on these forums usually hopes to get the attension of CCP so we can see some changes. Other wise, we'd have the same game that I bought on May 6th.
Of course.
Surely then you should not have made a thread with this title:
"Why do Ore Thieves and CCP think that... "
That is not addressed at CCP alone and nor was your first post. Through a lot of discussion I would hope that we have changed your original out-look and that now you will target your complaint in the correct direction?
Again, that's 90% of what people are trying to say to you - What is wrong with that?
Edit: Actually, you're not the main culrpit of this negativity towards the thieves - There are worse than you, but I digress.
Is there an official feedback system for players to sumbit suggestions, besides the "bug" report? |
Persephonie
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:17:00 -
[88]
I think the fact is you are not supposed to jettison your cargo if you want it. The game was designed with ships made for mining having big holds.
When i started eve i mined and went back to base to unload. Now people are greedy and have decided to mine in ships with small holds and lots of lazers (designed to fight) and drop ore to pick up in a big ship. This should be allowed but you run the risk of losing this ore as it should be.
Because nearly everyone in this game is a carebear as the pirates put it, they complain when it isnt totally easy, so they want secure containers so they can mine with impunity. Because enough people moan CCP have to do something about it and then they made containers secure (i see the problem is still here though) I wish people would just get on with it and adapt as we do in real life, not get the rules changed all the time caus they cannot cope. When you all make it into the real world you will realise you cant complain and get the universe moulded around you im afraid
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Xenovetica
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:43:00 -
[89]
Hmmm... I can't believe this thread is still progressing.
Well, I shouldn't say 'progressing'... but rather 'expanding'.
Necessity:
****ed off miner: "Ore thieves suck ass."
Bystander/Ore thief: "Yeah... just be smart and it won't be stolen."
EOF... honestly.
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Ydiss
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Posted - 2003.09.05 12:47:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Ydiss on 05/09/2003 12:48:38
Sorry for the spam but on my lunch break I considered that if CCP are reading this then perhaps they are taking notes.
There's been various suggestion on how to fix this issue but only one or two of them are without flaws.
My suggestion based on what's been said here and in other similar threads is:
1) Leave unsecure cargo as it is - With the risk that infinite storage (reward) means it can be taken without reprimand (risk) because they are not meant to be used for anything but for waste.
2) Fix passwords on Secures (again, already suggested).
3) Either make Secures invulnerable or give a security hit in safe systems for attacking them.
Why the last one? Well, secures are bought at reasonable cost by the player for the sole purpose of jettisoning for off-ship storage.
As such they remain the property of the owner regardless of where they are kept.
It is unfair for anyone to destroy them without any risk to themselves and this needs to be addressed.
Other than that, what else needs to be changed? |
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