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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17505
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Posted - 2013.11.24 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Roggle wrote:I cant imagine this was its primary purpose but its seems like it could be abused. It has no primary purpose. It's a tool for players to use to come up with new ways of approaching the various problems they face in the game.
Maybe you shouldn't have attacked him in a place where he was free to refit to match your moves, hmmGǪ? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17543
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 15:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Fail argument - Bring an heavy interdictor. Cause they can cloak in WH right? Won't work on T3s without focused. Fail argument - fit more scrams. So a tackler now needs to fit up to 4 scrams to tackle one ship. Fail argument - anchor a bubble. So we warp in, ask the guy to wait while we deploy a bubble and it anchors. Won't work on T3,s. Fail argument - bring friends. Because the only way we should be able to catch a single ship is by ganking them. Remember for each ship you'll need a focused interdictor or a tackler with at least 4 scrams, for 8 low slot ships one will need to be a +3 of course. Fail argument - put it into reinforced. It has 18k EHP. To reinforce it before he can right click and auto load his fit you're going to need about 3kdps. No. None of those arguments fail. Quite the opposite, in fact: they provide working and easily available solutions to the (non-)problem. Just beacause you can't or won't employ strategies that work doesn't mean the strategies are invalid.
Quote:We need this depot fixed such that it cannot be used during combat. Why? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17543
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 16:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:You cannot fit more scrams than you have mid slots. This module removes any functionality that a interceptor has regarding CCP's supposed "they're supposed to intercept". Please Tippia, explain to me how any interceptor can intercept a ship that can fit more WCS than an inty can fit disruptors? By ensuring he doesn't get the chance to fit nothing but WCSes or by bringing more misdlots or by using methods that don't care about warp stability points.
Quote: Tell me how we're supposed to jump into a renter system with a 10 large bubbles on a gate, tackle a ratter and stay alive long enough to keep him there with our 3 scrams, no prop mod, tank, cap injector? Same as above.
Quote: Yes, lets ask the target to sit around while our bubbles anchor Just like you should just sit around and waut while his depot anchors. And there are more than one type of bubbleGǪ
Quote: Bring friends... as I said above, every gang needs 8 interceptors now to tackle one ship? Your unwillingness or inability to employ a strategy does not make it a GÇ£fail" strategy.
Quote: To put an 18k depot into reinforced in a tackling ship is impossible before the owner can click it and refit, it takes several seconds to refit. See above. Do it right and you'll need an impossible 200dps. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17543
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:I have a depot deployed. I have 8 heavy neuts. Cap booster. Warrior 2's. 3 webs. 8 WCS. Some sensor damps and the depot filled with Cap Boost 400's.
How do you propose you're going to kill me? By spotting the depot and picking something other than crows and cynabals. He's prepared; I need to prepare back. Alternatively, I gamble on the DPS the four ships put out. Each needs to deliver 1,000 HP damage to reinforce the thing GÇö a tall:ish order for the crows, but quick enough for the Cynabals. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17543
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 17:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:All of my mega will be sporting these just because of this thread. Yeah, but what are you going to do? Replace all the nanofibres with other nanofibres?  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17544
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
By the way, maybe I have an outdated version of pyfa, but it sure looks like a bomber can pretty much insta-reinforce a deployed depotGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17545
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 18:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Jythier Smith wrote:Isn't this still coming down to "A properly prepared opponent can get away before I can get them locked down"? Is that really not the way it should be? Yes.
WellGǪ except for the part where you can quite easily ruin all the preparation in a single shot, but it requires some sneaking and finesse to get that shot in. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17549
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 19:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Oh so they're capable of chasing down a fleeing ship, as in being able to warp to it before it warps off. No, as in if it tries to run away, they will arrive wherever it is going first and stop them. You knowGǪ intercept them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17549
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Well we know where they'll be warping to won't we. Yes. It's usually quite easy to spot. Well, unless they have a very handy safe spot, in which case it's time to break out the probers as usual. But again, nothing about this really changes with depots (except that it's a bit easier to find those safe spots if the fleeing party is a bit of a clutz).
Quote:Right to their precious I WIN button to fit some stabs. GǪwhich they won't be able to do since it's not going to be in working order when they get there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17550
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Unless they shelled out for a Yurt. Those things are going to be very hard to scan down. But they should be at 500m isk. Well, that just comes down to preparation once again, doesn't it? They've prepared for the possibility that it might be scanned down, so now you've got to counter-prepare by bringing out a top-notch scanner.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Nice to see CSM hard at work turning EVE into WOW. SoGǪ how is providing everyone with more tools, more options, more strategies, more counters and counter-counters turn the game into WoW? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17552
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 20:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Its none of those things you mention, its a way of fitting WCS to flee from any risk. In other words, it provides everyone with more tools, more options, more strategies, more counters and counter-counters.
So, again, how does that turn the game into WoW?
Quote:Since you support riskless suicide ganking GǪexcept, of course, that I don't. I simply support suicide ganking GÇö all the tools, options, strategies, counters and counter-counters that go into it GÇö and if people feel that the risks are too low, then that's their problem because they're the ones who are willingly voiding those those risks on the gankers' behalf. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17552
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 21:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:The last part is right. Zero risk, sort of like throwing a bunch of WCS in a container and sitting next to it so you don't have to PvP is zero risk. Too bad that it's such an easy tactic to counterGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thirtythousand wrote:A ship capable of Alfa reinforcing the depo would take so long to land on grid, lock and apply dps that the target would be gone long before that argument was valid. Yes, because bombers are known for being very slow-warping and requiring locks to deliver damage, not to mention being world-famous making their presence on-grid widely known long before they can launch an attackGǪ
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Nobody said anything about alpha. Have you even checked how much EHP mobile depots have? Actually, I did. The point people seem to be missing is that they're just quoting from the bare EHP number quoted in the blog without looking into the numbers and mechanics behind itGǪ
A standard depot has 17,500 HP. It has no listed resists, so that's 17,500 EHP as well. The distribution of those hitpoints is 5k shields + 5k armour + 7.5k hull. How do you reinforce a depot? By punching its shields down to 25%.
Thus: total damage required to reinforce a depot: 75% of 5,000, or 3,750 HP.
Alpha:ing it into reinforced is trivial. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:So you're saying that an alliance, who may or may not be in a TZ that's different from your own, should have to maintain a 24 hour defence fleet on the off chance you decide to shoot their structures? Yeah you're a special snowflake. IZ has forgotten (or never actually learned) that there's a very good reason why they nuked that mechanic and never looked back at the horror it createdGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Oh I know why, because CCP got all buddy buddy with the alliances of the day, and hired a few of them, and of course they did what any alliance bear would do, made it safe for alliances so they didn't have to do any work to keep their space. Gave it millions of HP and made it cast a 24 hour pally bubble on itself right :) GǪand you can prove all this, of course? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.26 23:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:All I hear is Bonobo's trying to change the subject.... anyone can see it's pathetic 35000 people can't defend their stuff and need help from the server against small gangs or solo players... So no. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Casanunda wrote:3 words for you that completely blow the bolded and underlined statement out of the water:
Giant Secure Container To be fair, GSCs sport a pretty nasty tank, so there's protection there as wellGǪ
GǪunlike with a depot, which can be disabled in one shot by a single stealth bomber.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It took me two shots, but my stealth bomber skills are (ironically) complete ****. Fair enough. I'm looking at the ever-present ( ) all-V skillset. 4717 alpha with arbalests and navy torps; 8000 with ze beumb. But again, the threshold is 3750 so you probably wouldn't have to push those skills very far to get there. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17553
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 00:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Obviously when I said "You" eject and anchor I was not speaking of GSC, I was talking about SOV structures which was the topic of the conversation. Obvious or not, what you said was still incorrect. Again. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17555
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 12:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Jose Black wrote:Doesn't the fact that the guy was sitting next to his depot and being able to refit instead having to warp to it mean he was aware of the thread? If so he could otherwise just have warped and cloaked in a savespot. Also what about the thought that if he wasn't planning to use this mechanic against solo pvp threats he might not have risked to be in the wormhole to begin with? The other way around that would mean you get more potential targets in wormholes due to this game mechanic. More risk of the target getting away versus more reward of having more targets. You just need to catch them on the wrong foot = more exciting gameplay. The problem is that you're thinking about it all logically, plausibly, and solution-oriented. That's not the GD way of doing things.  GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17577
|
Posted - 2013.11.27 21:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:In a sandbox game if one of the kids leaves his sandcastle unprotected to go have dinner it shouldn't magically become invulnerable. It should if it creates a better gameplay experience, which it does.
Quote:It's no longer a sandbox in that situation. Such rules have pretty much no impact on the sandbox status. The rules are just as much a defining feature as the tools. It's a sandbox, not an amorphous pile.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17580
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 11:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:The Spod wrote:Kaarous:
Dropping a depot otoh is a lazy thing to do and doesn't deprive you from fittings or immobility while ratting. It doesn't so much compete with watching local as it does with being aligned or fitting escape tools. As a nullsec ratter its a no brainer. Oh, I understand. I just don't think it will be as easymode or as widespread as people seem to think. I do see it as a significant buff to droneboats, though, as you seem to be aluding with the "immobile" part. In particular I can imagine it's use with an Armageddon to pretty much render yourself un-gankable. GǪunless someone takes the trivially easy step of nuking the depot. 
CraftyCroc wrote: Just page 1 of the responses depresses me. Surely the average age of eve players is on the increase
The oP raises a valid point
Not really. He's mainly whinging about how new tools and strategies means he can't always use his old tools and strategies, and prefers the newness to be removed over having to take a minute or so to think what he can do to counter it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17586
|
Posted - 2013.11.28 18:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:next time use a SB... a single bomb will make the depot hit reinforcement mode. GǪor just a single volley of torps GÇö that skips the whole 10s bomb travel time as well. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17592
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 12:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Icylce wrote:1. Bring more friends sollution: Yes that would definetly work. However this completely ignores the fact were talking solo pvp here. Not quite. We're talking about PvP against a player who has done everything he can to prepare himself, which means that just barging in solo and doing what you always do will not work. This is as it should be.
Quote:2. Bring more scrams: Fitting more scramblers gimps your fit greatly. That's ok. Fitting more WCSes gimps his fit greatly, so you come out about even.
Quote:3. Reinforce the depot: I see no problem reinforcing the depot if it is dropped after u arrived on field. However from the information ive gathered it will be very difficult borderline impossible to prevent target from refitting if depot was dropped beforehand. It's pretty easy either way. If they drop it during the fight, you just need to chew through 18k EHP in 60 seconds; if they've dropped it beforehand, you need to chew through 3,750 EHP. Quite a few ship can simply alpha it into reinforced and then get on with business.
Quote:4. Bring this/that ship Since u solo pvp u can bring only 1 ship with u. GǪand this all comes down to preparation. He's made sure to be really prepared for the eventuality of being tackled while near the depot, so it only makes sense that you need to prepare as well.
So from the proposed solutions, all of them help. The only one that doesn't help is GÇ£I want to do exactly as beforeGÇ¥, which obviously won't work since things aren't the way they were before. This is as it should be. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17594
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 13:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Icylce wrote:Yes it is a good "general advice". But solo pvp=/= more friends. GǪand foregoing friends means foregoing a fairly large number of strategies. Without those strategies, some targets will be beyond your reach, such as a target that is fully prepared to run away from a single attacker. If he has made all those preparations, and you refuse to do any to adapt or circumvent what he's done, then his getting away is how it should be.
He's prepared; you need to prepare right back.
Quote:Yes but he doesnt have to commit to his fit. If he doesn't commit to it, he won't get away so that would remove the entire point with his trying to fit them to begin with.
Quote:Ofc preparation is key. However the preparation u have to take as solo pvper narrows down your options way too much in my opinion. Have you thought about bringing along a depot to adjust your fit to what you might encounter? The defender has to put in as much effort as you do to plan what he brings along. And given the size of the equipment involved, cargo space isn't a factor for whether he can evade you or not.
Quote:Never claimed "I wanted to do exactly as before." No, but that is the gist of the main complaint against the thing: that just flying in and blasting the guy without proper preparation and adaptation won't work.
For a short while, it will be a popular tactic to use until the attackers learn to use the myriad of counter-tactics at their disposal. After that, it'll just be easier to go back to the tried and true evasion tactics because they're not so trivially easy to nullify. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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