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Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 14:33:00 - [1] - Quote I'm looking for a replacement for my PvE Nightmare. The Nightmare is a fantastic ship which suits my playstyle very well. Problem is, it looks absolutely horrible. I hate actually flying it, and feel embarrassed every time I undock. So I'm looking for an alternative ship with a similar feel, meaning long range weaponry (but no missiles, mixed weaponry or reliance on drones for DPS) and shield tank. My current top contender is a Vindicator, so I've included a basic test setup for reference: [Vindicator, Rail fit] Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Signal Amplifier II Co-Processor II Pith X-Type Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II 100MN Afterburner II 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I Large Semiconductor Memory Cell I A very tight fitting that doesn't allow as large tank, has much worse tracking than the Nightmare, but is faster and does comparable DPS. So my question is - is there any other ship/fit that would serve as a better replacement? I'd gladly shield tank a Napoc, arty fit a Mach - or even run a Vindi without web ;) - if that does the job better. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 94	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:24:00 - [2] - Quote Arcilla wrote: I'm looking for a replacement for my PvE Nightmare. The Nightmare is a fantastic ship which suits my playstyle very well. Problem is, it looks absolutely horrible. I hate actually flying it, and feel embarrassed every time I undock. WHAT? I'll gladly add a third "horrible-looking" Mare to my hangars if you offering?
Riot Girl Krypteia Operations CODE. 1985	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:24:00 - [3] - Quote You could shield tank a Paladin. Oh god.
Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:26:00 - [4] - Quote So I came across the post-Rubicon Paladin thread and someone mentioned a shield tanked Paladin. Despite some scepticism I rolled one up in EFT and it looks like, although inferior to an armour tanked one, the shield Paladin actually mimics the Nightmare pretty well. And the Bastion mod and tractors are just gravy on top.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 492	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:30:00 - [5] - Quote putting rails on a vindi is very much like putting a square peg in a round hole, as evidenced by what you had to do to that fit. If you want rails, use a kronos, a hyperion, or a navy megathron and armor tank them. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Riot Girl Krypteia Operations CODE. 1986	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:30:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah, it looks pretty decent. Why don't you want armour? Oh god.
Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:31:00 - [7] - Quote Riot Girl wrote: You could shield tank a Paladin. Heh, beat me by two minutes. Yeah, this looks like a pretty strong fit, despite not utilizing the armour rep bonus.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 492	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:32:00 - [8] - Quote or a shield tanked navy domi with rails. That works pretty good. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 303	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:42:00 - [9] - Quote dislike the looks of a nightmare?! seriously? must be a troll. but.. well.. eh.. shield navy domi is pretty darn good too
Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:42:00 - [10] - Quote The reason I don't want to armour tank is the same reason I don't want to use my Nightmare because I don't like its graphics: flavour. The trekkie in me wants to divert all power to the shields, and I inherently dislike the concept of active armour tanking.
Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:54:00 - [11] - Quote Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS.
Batelle Komm susser Tod 492	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:02:00 - [12] - Quote Arcilla wrote: Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS. Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Mra Rednu Black Watch Guard 450	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:41:00 - [13] - Quote Arcilla wrote: So my question is - is there any other ship/fit that would serve as a better replacement? I'd gladly shield tank a Napoc, arty fit a Mach - or even run a Vindi without web ;) - if that does the job better. Thanks in advance for any advice. No there is no ship which would be better, also stop doing horrible things to good ships.
Arcilla Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.11.25 17:45:00 - [14] - Quote Batelle wrote: Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text. I realize a blaster Vindi is much better than a rail one. But remember that the reason why I'm asking here is precisely because I'm not content with the Vindi fit, and I'm looking for suggestions as to what could do the job better.
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 210	Posted - 2013.11.25 22:58:00 - [15] - Quote This is what I fly since the summer for L4, used it in amarr, minmatar and gallente space, without any kind of issues. Didn't use my Paladin since. It does require a bit more work than a static tach ship but it is a lot of fun to fly and if you make use of the mobility and use clever positioning it beats the pala/nm for speed running in most L4s. It feels like a Zealot on crack. [Apocalypse Navy Issue, Amarr Victor] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Heat Sink II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Core A-Type Large Armor Repairer Core A-Type 100MN Microwarpdrive Cap Recharger II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Mega Pulse Laser II, Conflagration L Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation II Large Energy Discharge Elutriation I Garde II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 Hobgoblin II x3 A small fraps footage that I did to show the handling: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1306/New_NAPOC_Smuggler_Interception.mkv Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
The Djego Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition 210	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:23:00 - [16] - Quote Batelle wrote: Arcilla wrote: Navy Domi is a very solid ship - arguably stronger than a rail vindi, and probably a lot cheaper - but as stated in my original post: no reliance on drones for DPS. Pretty sure putting a sig amp and a coproc on a vindi is uglier than anything else you've claimed to dislike. with 50km base lock range and a web bonus, it may as well have said "BLASTERS ONLY" in the flavor text. A 90% web is actually one of the best things you can have for a rail ship if you do omni tank + every mission in the same fitting with it, because it fixes one of the main issues(zero dps at close) in a way where you end up with max rail + sentry dps at close(a bonus is that you never have to use light drones), what was one of the reasons the old Kronos actually was a ok ship across every NPC type, even with the low raw dps. The major problem of the Vindicator is that awful capacitor, what makes it kind of meh with mwd and without any cap mods(compared to the old Kronos that performed pretty good in a setup like this) and the inability to project sentry dps up to 100km(again one of the things that made the old Kronos good). I'm currently playing a bit around with a Vindi looking for something that might be as useful as the old Kronos(no success yet. Improve discharge rigging: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=246166&find=unread
Cpt Tirel 61	Posted - 2013.11.25 23:33:00 - [17] - Quote Yep Nightmare is ugly i agree, i tried flying it, switched to a Navy Geddon because of the looks Rail Vindi is not as bad as many think, it gets a good bit more dps than artillery Machariel, more tracking too, but it is slower, has more cap problems and lower tank. If you can deal with those, go for the rail Vindi
Thaddeus Eggeras TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 108	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:05:00 - [18] - Quote If you like lasers, use a Paladin, hybrids Kronos, proj Vargur and missiles Golem. Marauders are back on top of PvE now.
Garak n00biachi Capital Destruction AL3XAND3R. 47	Posted - 2013.11.26 01:05:00 - [19] - Quote Resculpt and get rid of that red hair, youre making me look bad....
Thaddeus Eggeras TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 109	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:15:00 - [20] - Quote what and who and huh?
Shalashaska Adam DubiousOnes 4	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:19:00 - [21] - Quote The nightmare is a monsterous beauty that i'm proud to undock in. But if you can't stand it then a shield tanked Paladin is the only comparable ship.
Thaddeus Eggeras TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM 109	Posted - 2013.11.26 02:28:00 - [22] - Quote I agree I think the Nightmares looks cool and looks mean, I'd hate to face a ship that looked that demonic
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 76	Posted - 2013.11.26 10:46:00 - [23] - Quote Shield tanked tachyon paladin. that is the closest you will get. tracking will suffer but you will get good range with INMF (70+41) and 482 tank with a dcu, invul and pith b-type. 1033 dps without drones 3 navy + 1 t2 heatsinks and a t2 burst rig.
Anize Oramara S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass 76	Posted - 2013.11.26 10:51:00 - [24] - Quote Shield tanked tachyon paladin. that is the closest you will get. tracking will suffer but you will get good range with INMF (70+41) and 482 tank with a dcu, invul and pith b-type. 1033 dps without drones 3 navy + 1 t2 heatsinks and a t2 burst rig.
Silmas Feanarius iFly Holdings Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 10	Posted - 2013.11.26 12:38:00 - [25] - Quote Triple-box nagas for fun & profit. Is that even possible? Cunnu 'e mamma tua bagassa limpia.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 193	Posted - 2013.11.26 13:44:00 - [26] - Quote I sort of know where the OP is coming from on the 'mare - it took a long while (and a lot of time ratting them) before the design grew on me enough that I would have been willing to fly it... Rather than butchering the Vindi (and I'm sure I can provide safe and secure accomodation for both the 'mare and the Vindi' to allow them to recover from the (for want of a better term) abuse...) What about an Arti-Mach? Or even, at the range suggested by the Vindi, the AC Mach (though it's less good than it used to be).
Arcilla 0	Posted - 2013.11.26 16:24:00 - [27] - Quote Thanks to everyone who replied so far. It looks like there is some consensus about shield Pali being my best option, so that's what I'll be going for (although I'll most likely use a Pulse fit rather than Tachs due to concerns about tracking). I actually preferred the old Apoc hull, but the new one is still better than a Nightmare. Oh, and I apologize for any digestive problems caused by suggesting a Vindi rail fit. I would've thought shield fitting a ship with an armour rep bonus would be more of an eyesore, but now I know. ;)
Riot Girl Krypteia Operations CODE. 1996	Posted - 2013.11.26 17:16:00 - [28] - Quote Arcilla wrote: I'll most likely use a Pulse fit rather than Tachs due to concerns about tracking). With a couple of Locus rigs, you can hit out to max targeting range with Scorch, so that's probably what I'd do too. Oh god.
Lloyd Roses Blue-Fire 330	Posted - 2013.11.26 19:01:00 - [29] - Quote Could just take a paladin, slap an eanm and an armor repairer on it - rest gank, and just PRETEND! 5 lows for damage/TEs and 3 mids for application, that's pretty much nightmare. "I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
TedStriker The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.11.26 20:09:00 - [30] - Quote actually, i tried an armor-paladin today, just to see if bastion mode changed anything for fast-missioning pure amarr chars that don't want to crosstrain a nightmare. quite cheap even, only a IN large rep and 3 IN heatsinks and 5% imps. well, actually, you can now get nearly the same out of it, bastion mode only used in the few missions where you need the tank. same tracking as nightmare (very important if you want to get rid of cruisers), 1009dps on 50+30, 860dps on 70+30 (without drones of course, who needs drones in fast missioning besides a few frigs), capstable tank of 276 (em/thrm), 700+ in bastion. well, not better, but an alternative with less flexibility, i still prefer not to have to use bastion mode (you lose time in bastion) and having more flexibility with the nightmare fit (swapping webs/mwd/ab/resists as the missions requires).

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