EVE Search - Suggestion: Modify Sensor Dampners

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Suggestion: Modify Sensor Dampners

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.03 20:15:00 - [1] Most players in the know, know that Sensor Dampners are the most powerful ECM module in the game, easily ecplising actual target jamming modules in effectivness and cost next to nothing to run. As it stands, the best of the sensor dampners can reduce lock ranges by -58% and of course stack. As an added benefit, they reduce lock times in a similiarly dramatic way. The kicker is, they work across all sensor types. Therein lies my suggestion for a fix. Make sensor dampners only work on a specific sensor type, similiar to normal jamming modules. Of course, you could have multi spectral dampners, but these would have to be reduced similiarly to jamming pods. Probably in the range of -25% being the best on multispectral dampners. Obviously this won't go over well with all the Scorp and BB pilots out there, because with 3 dampners, one senesor booster and one warp scrambler, you've essentially won any 1v1 fight. Well, tough. 4 modules on your ship should not guarentee a win. Also, please don't argue that if this change is implemented, that it makes them useless and we'd all just use multi spectral jammers. Now that large guns are becomming useful, one or 2 dampners will easily give you the range advantage your big guns need.
Faramir	Posted - 2003.09.03 20:23:00 - [2] Edited by: Faramir on 03/09/2003 20:25:54 I agree that sensor dampeners need to be changed. They are effective against any type of ship, but take really only a little bit of cap to use... i made a screen to compare a multispectral jammer VS a sensor dampener (2 looted versions). Multispectral jammer VS sensor dampener Besides this is the fact that you need 2 sensor boosters to counter 1 sensor dampener... Vs the fact that if you use a multi spectral jammer you can counter it more easily with lowslot +2 to sensorstrength of the specific range. EDIT >> i calcualted cap-usage.. and in the 34.8 secs it takes the sensor-dampener 10 energy / 30 sec, it takes the 1 multispectral 201 cap / 30 sec ... 190 cap difference.... seems a bit much (and this is only 1 module) use 4 multispectrals and see the huge capdrain difference
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.03 20:25:00 - [3] How about removing the targetting speed modifier and only having them affect the range, and then increasing cap usage? Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Faramir	Posted - 2003.09.03 20:40:00 - [4] Edited by: Faramir on 03/09/2003 20:42:51 i think the range limitation is the biggest problem... i have done some calcualtions with having multiple sensor boosters.... and it still comes down that if someone uses 4 sensor dampeners you won;t get out above 20 km or so... and only by using a few medslot sensorboosters.... PLUS who needs to have 400km locking range when you can only see as far as 200km and not even being able to hit at those insane ranges either?? but also cap-usage should go up, agreed.... btw. talking about the medslot sensor boosters when coming to insane ranges... since best lowslot range enhancer i saw was 10%.... the thing i am trying to say is that it is almost impossible to counter the sensor dampener properly.... 2 modules to counter 1 :\ (and that 1 module has unlimited range too...)
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.03 21:02:00 - [5] Well, I may be wrong but can't 4 Multispectrals jam any Battleship out there? That's about the same effect 6 Sensor dampeners has (~1km target range) so if only the capacitor use was greatly increased so that a cruiser cannot run them for more than 2-3 minutes, I think they would be fine. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
QBall	Posted - 2003.09.03 21:50:00 - [6] Scropion has 16 base Gravametric(I think always get caldar/gallantee confused) So it would take 17 to jam a scorpion (or 5 multis). -------- "OMG IT'S TRAMMEL 2.0!!!!" -QBall And QQ is QQ
Jarjar	Posted - 2003.09.03 21:54:00 - [7] Quote: Scropion has 16 base Gravametric(I think always get caldar/gallantee confused) So it would take 17 to jam a scorpion (or 5 multis). So it's not enough to get it down to 0? (No, I'm not the EW guy )
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.03 22:13:00 - [8] No, you have to overcome thier sensor strength by at least 1 to jam. So it takes 18 (5 pods) to jam a 17 strength. Also, Valeria, you don't need anywhere near 6 sensor dampners to shut down a battleship. 2 is enough for most engagements and 3 is the win.
Nerhtal Al'Thali	Posted - 2003.09.03 22:34:00 - [9] no i disagree. If you wish to avoid sensor dampening use sensor boosters. If you want to avoid ECM jamming use ECCM. The only bonus of sensor dampening is it is not dependant on targets sensor type BUT it still leaves the opponent a chance to lock on (slim i know) yet it exists. Target jamming negates that completely. Also to be effective you will require 3 sensor dampeners on average to safely lock down a target assuming he has no sensor boosters. If you are a long range fighter maybe one or two is enough. For the cap usage of multispectrals i always thought they didnt jam enough but they are more efficient for surprise encounters. 4 of each type ECM = -12str to all but 4 multi's = -16. cap usage is where the difference is. Due to the nature of dampeners they are inherently better then boosters though. 1 booster doesnt cancel out 1 dampener. 2 boosters gets you over your natural sensor range if someone has 1 dampener on you. 50km Natural 25km w/ one Sensor Dampener 37.5km one sensor booster active 56.25km with second booster active. oh damnit i cant be bothered to argue. There is a way to ****er everything in this game. Guns-TSM / ECM-ECCM true some things need a small tweak probably "Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur "First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.03 23:04:00 - [10] Nerhtal, come on now, you can't reasonably argue that Sensor Dampners are overpowered in their current state. I mean 3 modules to effectively shut down another player? Please.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.03 23:10:00 - [11] Edited by: Valeria on 03/09/2003 23:11:21 Err, 3 wouldn't do me any good at all. I'm using Hybrid Blasters you see. 5 would perhaps do the trick but I use 6 to be on the safe side. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Rising Sin	Posted - 2003.09.03 23:24:00 - [12] The best way to fix dampeners is to increase their cap-use and decrease ECM cap use. Simple solution to a simple problem. -- "If they're shooting at you, you know you must be doing something right."
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.04 00:14:00 - [13] Valeria, I don't know your lock range, but I'll figure an average of 75k. With 3 dampners, you'd be at 5556m lock range. Good luck staying reliably in that range to fight. With 4, you'd be at 2,333. 5 and 6 would hardly be needed.
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.04 00:26:00 - [14] I target at 84k and always carry atleast one uber sensor booster and that's what I assume my enemies do aswell. So 6 it is. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Entity	Posted - 2003.09.04 00:33:00 - [15] Edited by: Entity on 04/09/2003 00:33:42 cough To targetjam someone you must reduce his sensor strength to 0 or below. Zero means nothing, nada, zip, zilch. Zero strength = no targeting. Edit: yes. this was tested with 14 ECM against a megathron (14 magneto strength). It got jammed.
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.09.04 00:56:00 - [16] I would rather increase the strength of sensor boosters, so one can defend themselves against sensor dampeners effeciently. Same with tracking enhancers. Reducing the effeciency of the inhibitors would make them too weak IMO. free speech not allowed here
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.04 01:51:00 - [17] Valeria, sorry to burst your bubble, but here's the math with your uber locking range: 84k+60% with your uber booster = 134,400 Dampner 1 - 56,448 Dampner 2 - 23,708 Dampner 3 - 9,957 (starting to look grim) Dampner 4 - 4,182 (you lose) Dampner 5 - 1,756 (uhm, ok) Dampner 6 - 737 (get out of here noob, the blast radius on my missle is bigger then this) Sorry Val, try again.
Drutort	Posted - 2003.09.04 03:17:00 - [18] you guys are funny... you cant jam someone from leaving if you dont get within 20km also those rare targeting boosters do something like 58% or something like it is almost countering the best dampners... you guys forget!! you can put LOW slot target boosters as well!! so you can do this i have tested this... it helps a lot check it out for your self... ECM still the full 100% jaming meaning you jamed them you can get within 10km to web and 20k to warp scram... with dampnes you never know if they get a sensor booster and if you get within closer range they in fact could kill you or jam you as well LOL if they didnt get first chance... I think dampners and ecm have there advantages and disadvantages as of right now... and they are good enough... you also have skills and other low slot items that can boost either ones... so its not only mid slots support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo my MoBlog
Dragon Emperor	Posted - 2003.09.04 03:34:00 - [19] Quote: you guys are funny... you cant jam someone from leaving if you dont get within 20km also those rare targeting boosters do something like 58% or something like it is almost countering the best dampners... you guys forget!! you can put LOW slot target boosters as well!! so you can do this i have tested this... it helps a lot check it out for your self... ECM still the full 100% jaming meaning you jamed them you can get within 10km to web and 20k to warp scram... with dampnes you never know if they get a sensor booster and if you get within closer range they in fact could kill you or jam you as well LOL if they didnt get first chance... I think dampners and ecm have there advantages and disadvantages as of right now... and they are good enough... you also have skills and other low slot items that can boost either ones... so its not only mid slots 1.58*0.42=0.6636, nice try.
Beseb	Posted - 2003.09.04 03:35:00 - [20] Drutort, I'm not sure what part of the detailed explanation of the power of these modules you missed, but your sensor boosters aren't going to help you much. I already demonstrated that with Valeria's build. Did you read that?
sensitive	Posted - 2003.09.04 09:01:00 - [21] Increase sensor boosters to effectively counter sensor dampners and were done here with the "lets take out the nerfing batt on everything that Im afraid off" Hell, Im scared of sentry guns.. lets nerf em too
Faramir	Posted - 2003.09.04 09:47:00 - [22] Yeah i agree, make sensor boosters counter effectively and maybe let the sensor dampeners use up a little more cap....
Valeria	Posted - 2003.09.04 11:45:00 - [23] Your point, Beseb? The only option I can choose is orbit 1 km which works really well against multi-webbed targets. Thus I need to get their range below 1km, which as you stated is exactly what 6 dampeners achieves. Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage.
Ulstan	Posted - 2003.09.04 13:09:00 - [24] I think sensor dampeners and regular ECM are not as imbalanced as you try to make them look. I only need two Gravimetric Modules to jam a MoA cruiser. He's totally locked down. He can't hit me no matter where he is. I would need three sensor dampeners on a MoA. And that would still leave his targetting range at about 7km. So I need to have a webifier to keep him from getting that close to me and possibly using highly damaging short range weapons. So that's 2 modules vs 4, heavily in favor of the regular ECM jamming. And remember, right now, as long as you can target your enemy at 20km, you don't have anything to worry about that - if you are more than 20km away and you cant' target him, just warp away. Also, the sensor dampeners increased lock on time doesnt' do much if the target has already locked on to you. And, bear in mind, that many, many people just carry sensor boosters around to increase their targetting lock on speed. I've run into people who use 2 of them in order to target anything very, very quickly. The counter to dampeners is a useful module in and of its own - the counter to ECM is a 100% useless module in and of its own. A gunboat with a couple sensor boosting modules can easily chew up an EW ship badly before the EW boat even has a chance to lock, especially when you consider that the EW boats (bb and scorp ) are caldari, who tend to have the longest lock times. Moreover, there are skills to increase your targetting range and targetting speed, though none to increase the gravimetric or ladar strength of your ship. A battleship user with some of these skills trained, and equipped with a sensor booster, can have 3 sensor dampeners used on him and just barely have his targetting range reduced below 20km. His fighting ability is basically unchanged. Whereas 3 ECM modules would have shut him down entirely.
drunkenmaster	Posted - 2003.09.04 13:22:00 - [25] I was gonna say a load of stuff about how you need less ECM's to do the trick than boosters, and that they are far more effective, and about the fact that everyone uses boosters anyway these days (witness the response to the CTD's they caused) But instead, I will simply agree with Ulstan, he may be a Space Miner, but he's been involved in some fights too... .
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.09.04 13:37:00 - [26] You need to have the correct ECM for that Ship type, though. Which can be tricky unless you know exactly what your target is. If you use multispectrum instead you will need 4 for a BS - and that BS can make those useless by having 1 ECCM module which increases it's sensor strength by at last 3 (lvl1 Bs) or 2 (lvl2 bs). (If you need to ECM a ship below 0 sensor strenght in order to make ECm work, I heared that somewhere, but I'm not sure if it's correct.) free speech not allowed here
Salgurdar	Posted - 2003.09.04 13:55:00 - [27] Edited by: Salgurdar on 04/09/2003 14:18:49 Scorpion with signal analysis 4 has a base targetting range of 92km. With 2 F-90 Positional Signal Amplifiers (mid slot, 60% range bonus, 60% targetting speed bonus), that becomes 235.52km targetting range. With 2 Type-D Attenuation Signal Augmentation (low slot, 18% range bonus, 12% targetting speed bonus) takes it up to 328km. 4 sensor dampeners will reduce that to 10km. pretty nasty really with say 4 signal amplifiers, a scorpion will have 603km targetting range. The same 4 sensor dampeners take that down to 18 km. To me, that spells over powering. I use sensor dampeners on all my ships. They are tough beyond words, and they definately need balancing. Particularly when you look at the chages to things like launchers and missiles. Playing on chaos today, my Raven was taken out by a Kestrel . Yep, you heard it, a FRIGATE took out a battleship solo, and he didn't do it just once, he took out a couple of battleships with his uber kestrel. All because torpedos are now wickedly devestating, can fit into m-12 launchers, and the kestrel can mount 3 sensor dampeners. Please look at sensor dampeners. "We all know what we are, we're just haggling about the price" - W.C. Fields Rolschau > anyway... because some jerk today... (it is soon 5 am) will turn on the smoke alarm all over the place and then go inside our room to check.. then I will stay up and not get a shock while sleeping and die.... I will be playing eve untill the jerk shows up
Gildon	Posted - 2003.09.04 14:11:00 - [28] Sensor Dampeners are fine - dont forget they can be counter-acted easily, and they don't imbalance fighting. Someone wants to load up 4 of them, then they are very weak in many other areas. Also, if you want to shoot someone from 20k and use em - its easy to get away. Lets no call for nerfs (we are getting them too much already). I would HOPE that anytime someone uses a 'module X4' it would be VERY effective and yet leave them open for many other counters. Gil
Ana Khouri	Posted - 2003.09.04 14:17:00 - [29] That with the kestrel won't go gold for sure, the launchers size will have to be decreased. free speech not allowed here
Salgurdar	Posted - 2003.09.04 14:18:00 - [30] Gildon, read my post if you think sensor dampeners are fine. "We all know what we are, we're just haggling about the price" - W.C. Fields Rolschau > anyway... because some jerk today... (it is soon 5 am) will turn on the smoke alarm all over the place and then go inside our room to check.. then I will stay up and not get a shock while sleeping and die.... I will be playing eve untill the jerk shows up

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.