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Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 00:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Desius on 26/02/2006 00:12:13
February 25th
Grief strikes the beleaguered Reschard system for the second time as news arrives that a crucially needed relief convoy destined to aid the disaster victims falls to hostile forces only minutes after its departure from the safety of empire space.
VentureCorp corporation rallied to aid the distressed colonists after hearing of their plight. Sickened by the immoral actions of the Mordus Legion Command in their attempt to use the disaster as a smoke screen for smuggling munitions under the guise of humanitarian efforts, VentureCorp amassed a large amount of goods, services, and personnel and set out to provide a relief convoy to the colony. Perhaps in an act of atonement, The Servant Sisters of Eve were gracious enough to assist in the effort by supplying VentureCorp with one of their newest, most sophisticated navigation computers in order to route the convoy safely and directly to Reschard.
Astrogation System Route for Relief Convoy
The aid convoyÆs journey was cut short, however, upon entering the first lawless system en route as it was set upon by a lone battleship piloted by Rindarr of the PLAYBOY alliance. The convoy hailed all in the system as to their purpose traveling through but to no avail as the battleship let loose its drones and began to target and destroy the humanitarian industrial ships. Convoy pilots scrambled to use their minimal defensive capabilities to repel the attacker in a last ditch effort to get the goods through. The steadfast effort paid off as the tide of the battle changed and the battleship was damaged deep into structure with only the loss of a single industrial ship.
As the vile aggressor was seconds from being dispatched, the area surrounding the gate was suddenly filled with combat pilots belonging to the Band of Brothers alliance. All ships in the convoy immediately radioed for assistance from the combat pilots, identifying themselves as a neutral aid convoy en-route to provide relief to the Reschard system only to be met with cold silence as the Band of Brothers forces open fire on the PLAYBOY aggressor, ripping through the last vestiges of structure he had remaining. Aid convoy pilots were only allowed a brief moment of relief before the unimaginable happened. The assisting combat wing immediately turned their weapons upon the near-defenseless aid convoy as they unleashed a merciless barrage of destruction towards them as frantic calls for neutrality radioed from the haulers. The convoy stood its ground bravely in yet another effort to protect the desperately needed disaster supplies but were cut down to the last man; roughly half of the pilots losing their lives and waking up in clones nearby. The important cargo that once was destined to save lives lie smoldering off the HED gate, not even given a second glance by the marauders as they departed the scene.
The Reschard survivors have been denied life-saving foods, medicines, and equipment due to the bloodthirsty barbarism of one of the most hostile and unforgiving alliances in the galaxy. This cruel and callous act of intentionally destroying a neutral humanitarian aid convoy will live in infamy a glaring reminder of the hostile times we live in. No longer will supporters of the most hated alliance in the universe be able to hide behind their denial and illusions regarding this group of ruthless savages. Meanwhile, the death toll rises daily as colonists in the Reschard system remain un-aided.
The following link shows the atrocities that were committed against humanity on this day. Some scenes may be unsuitable for the younger audience and the weak of constitution.
Relief Convoy Destroyed
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.02.26 00:16:00 -
[2]
I fear hell has no pit deep enough to accommodate those who disrespect the victims of such a catastrophe. However I would like to extend my congratulations to VentureCorp for being the first to have truly descended to rock bottom.
-------
[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Colonel O'Neill
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Posted - 2006.02.26 00:36:00 -
[3]
// Colonel O'Neill |
Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 00:38:00 -
[4]
I'm saddened, obviously, for the orphans and families who will go without the massive amounts of aid we purchased for the victims of this disaster.
That questionable releif convoys may meet unfortunate ends is one thing. When deliberately un-escorted and harmless aid convoys, who broadcast thier humanitarian mission loudly and clearly, and have clearly visable cargo manifests are assaulted, it is clearly another.
We shall try again to assist those who seem to be forgotten.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 01:06:00 -
[5]
Thats a lot of effort to go to in order to mock a humanitarian disaster 
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Nickel Deuce
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Posted - 2006.02.26 01:20:00 -
[6]
I'm saddened at the failure of our humanitarian mission, and only hope that the spilt wreckage of supplies left at the gate to empire in HED-GP will serve as a reminder to all of the unremorseful terrorism which is abundant in the EVE-Universe today.
Think of the poor orphans. =(
- - - - - - - -
Encoded with ROT26 ù circumvention will be prosecuted! |
Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 02:55:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
Thats a lot of effort to go to in order to mock a humanitarian disaster
Mock? We honestly had cargo holds full of humanitarian aid, in un-escorted industrial ships, with our destination set for the disaster zone. We broadcast our intentions clearly, and fully intended to deliver all of the goods.
Shouldn't you be turning your judgement pen upon those who thwarted our mission, taking all of our clones in the process? Or are the morals you professed in your previous condemnation really so shallow as to change depending on who it is that is attempting the mission of goodwill?
In any event, it certainly seems that you care more about making statements against political organizations that you don't care for than you do about the true welfare of the people of Reschard.
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vladdy2
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Posted - 2006.02.26 03:34:00 -
[8]
 I too am truely saddened by this blatent disregard for our Humanitarian efforts for the orphans of Reschard, the barbarism wiht which we were greeted by 0.0 pilots in a 0.0 system is, well .... its just shocking .
Those days spent hand picking the supplies for the shops in the Kithaled station, larger shops in Jita and taking in donations from Alliances was giving me and my corpmates a great sence of helping the little orphans on Reschard to have some vestige of happiness in these most troubled of times for them.
Alas the delivery was not to be as we were guned down in a hail of incoming rounds from 0.0 Brigands and Bandit Kings that have no respect for Human life. Truely a sad day indeed.
Oh my, how could you shoot people only trying to help the less fortunate .
I look to the pilots that have stood up for previous attempts to deliver aid to Reschard to stand up now and denounce the agressors and murderers that attacked our convoy, but i fear they will only, throw their well known rhetoric around the galnet in blind support for these 0.0 Brigands and Bandit Kings as they are freinds with them. or some long winded crudd to that effect.
Shame on you
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Lost Minnity
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Posted - 2006.02.26 05:17:00 -
[9]
One question from the curious here, why does your route seems to be a very long and round-about one 
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vladdy2
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Posted - 2006.02.26 06:32:00 -
[10]
Well we all had great concerns about the route as well, but we were given a fantastic new Navigation and route planning computer program from SOE, we punched in our destination and the system punched out the route you see in the above communication from my venerable Corpmate.
However the route was sound as far as the Nav Sys planned it out for us.
Hours later and im still deeply saddened it may be days until i fully recouperate
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Ituralde
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Posted - 2006.02.26 10:12:00 -
[11]
Oh, Right, since the Sisters of Eve are known terrorists who actively move munitions in attempts to bring down pigdog alliances of the north. We could only wish.
What we see here is the true face of these enclosurist factions. Not only do they target an innocent humanitarian supply convoy, but they then go on to mock the efforts of those who risked their lives to actually make a difference in this saddening disaster in a move where they blindly sacrificed the lives of their industrial crews.
The EVE community does not need to hear any more of your sick mocking of well-intentioned and honorable humanitarian groups. Maybe those who pander to your propoganda might almost beleive you in your sincerity, but in terms of sane people, even a blind man could see through your hollow guise.
And these are the same groups of people that call *us* terrorists and murderers, those who would so mock a humanitarian initiative. I urge everyone to think again who to beleive, this mindless propogandism that is but a shallow attempt to hide their barbarism, or instead your own free logical mind, the same free mind these enclosurists might seek to supress.
Fear is the mind-killer. |
the MoP
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Posted - 2006.02.26 11:11:00 -
[12]
Did we hope to deliver this humanitarian aid to Reschard? Indubitably. Was our humanitarian mission announced. Assuredly. Are our critics missing out on the irony? Unquestionably.
Let's recap both tragedies...
The similarities between the humanitarian convoys:
A. Both took an odd, circuitous route through lawless space when much safer routes to their destination were available.
B. Both were engaged as soon as they entered a 0.0 system.
The differences between the humanitarian convoys:
A. The Mordus convoy initiated hostilities, whereas the VentureCorp convoy was aggressed without provocation.
B. There is still much doubt as to what exactly the Mordus convoy was carrying, whereas there is no doubt that the VentureCorp convoy was indeed full of humanitarian aid for the orphans of Reschard.
C. All the haulers in the VentureCorp convoy were summarily destroyed, and the pilots podkilled, by Jericho Fraction's allies, whilst the freighters in the Mordus convoy mysteriously exploded while in warp - their destruction only being confirmed by anecdotal sources.
Draw whatever conclusions you will from these similarities and differences, but never for a moment doubt VentureCorp's sincerity in wishing to aid the beleaguered orphans of Reschard. Of course our long-time detractors from Jericho Fraction will once more try to twist and spin the facts involved in this latest development in order to cast further aspersions on our integrity. We fully expect them to redouble their efforts, as this most recent tragedy not only shows their own double standards, but also displays quite handily the inhumanity of their own allies in mindlessly aggressing a humanitarian mission.
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Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2006.02.26 11:23:00 -
[13]
I cannot help but feel you rather took the long way round to get there.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Davey Locke
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Posted - 2006.02.26 12:02:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Davey Locke on 26/02/2006 12:04:59
Edited by: Davey Locke on 26/02/2006 12:04:29
/sigh...
As I lay awake last night staring out into the stars I held a breath for all those that this aid convoy could have helped. I wept knowing that many could have lived had the Venturecorp aid arrived safely to its destination.
It could have helped not people....but mothers, fathers, children and worst of all babies....Reschands future!
Only one word formed in my mind and I share it here.....why!
The criminals who openly fire on aid missions who state their purpose clearly upon entering a system are only adding to the deaths on Reschand and I hope all of you who consider these men associates will consider strongly whether your association with them is built on trust or fear.
No doubt every corporation reading this and feeling the pain of Reschard will post details of the aid they sent, if only to bring light to what is now showing its ugly face as a truely dark time. I look forward to hearing of your relief missions and can only pray for their success.
You look upon this with disgust. But I ask one question of you all... What have you done to help those dying on Reschand whilst you line your own pockets?
...
...
As I thought...Disgusting!
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:14:00 -
[15]
Mockery, disrespect.. I hear slanderous accusations from the same group who proclaims to have the loudest voice for the good of all, yet I see no actions.
When we set out in our convoy there was one, and only one ultimate goal in mind. A long time and much isk was spent in building up the supplies we intended to safely deliver to Reschard V. We took the initiative and made an effort to aid others. An effort that our detractors have neither come close to matching or will even recognize as truth as such recognition would shed light on their double standard.
They sit back in their stations, safe from real world pressures and responsibilities, mighty pens in hand while planning their next essay on cultural enlightenment while many others risk their lives and spill their blood in acts designed to make a difference in this universe of ours. Meanwhile the Reschard V colonists remain in peril.
I ask them now what have you done, besides pontificating upon your self-aggrandized delusions and double standards, to aid the Reschard V disaster victims? What have your allies done? All I have seen from these groups that were not even involved in assisting is a torrent of discredit directed at those who have. From one side of their mouth they condemn others for alleged acts of barbarism while the other side lauds an organization who openly displays an antithesis to what they espouse. Is this, in fact, not a double standard simply based on the fact that they currently aren't even in a situation where they would be in conflict, and hence they can do no wrong by them? The basis of most of their arguments is nothing but a twisting of logic in an attempt to question facts simply because those points they dispute are difficult to prove true while at the same time argue using the same logic they just attempted to discredit. This is the basest form of fallacious manipulation that aids and serves none other than themselves.
How can they be enlightened if they are truly this blind?
At the end of the day it matters not as words alone carry little weight without action. VentureCorp will once again attempt to bring what aid we can to the Reschard V disaster victims. Not through penmanship, but by direct action.
For those who only read the bottom line, contribute constructively or be silent.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:23:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 26/02/2006 15:23:42
Dude, you've accused the SOE corporation of being arms smugglers after their convoy got attacked by your buddies NBSI happy policies. Then you took a load of indies round sixty jumps into the claimed territories of people you have been demonising for the last 15months. You did that to mock a humanitarian disaster.
Venturecorp credibility = zero/nada/zilch
At the moment you sound like less like a corporation and more like cult of flat galaxy fanatics on an interbus tour with no sharp edges. For a joke to be amusing its got to be funny ... suiciding the unfortunate crews of your industrial ships to poke fun at the humanitarian disaster is as Joshua rightly pointed out, something of a new low in the history of 0.0 moronics.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:00:00 -
[17]
You obviously missed the point.
Regardles of your personal opinion on the motivation behind our aid convoy - what have you done or tried to do by action? What is your contribution?
Thought so.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Desius
You obviously missed the point. Our intentions and actions were made clear in a very public manner without the slightest subterfuge. This is a press release informing the public of the atrocities committed against our humanitarian efforts.
So if JF made our intentions clear to bring a "humanitarian" convoy though Deklein your friends in IRON/G/RAZOR would allow our ships to pass? No, I thought not, hence your comedic stunt remains just that. An insult to the issue at hand and stark proof of your distance from any civilised political dialogue.
Quote:
If you wish to come here and try to tell us our motivations not humanitarian based simply on your speculation with no evidence to the contrary it won't be received any better than a random dog barking up a tree.
Lucky all the evidence exists in the ridiculous route portrayed in your opening post then isn't it?
Quote:
Regardles of your personal opinion on the motivation behind our aid convoy - what have you done or tried to do by action?
ummm, shoot at your corporation and everything you stand for during the last six months? Hows that for an action. You imperialists need to be opposed, we oppose you. What else needs saying.
Quote:
What is your contribution? All I've seen in response are words aimed to discredit.
And what exactly is wrong with seeking to discredit a bunch of brigands complicit in the destruction of a humanitarian escort fleet who then go on to compound their crimes by making a mockery of the humanitarian disaster by moving their own industrials into the gate camps of the people they've been demonising for the last 15 months?
Still, people will make up their own minds I imagine.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:34:00 -
[19]
Jade, I'm quite sure if you contacted IRON/G/Razor with enough advance warning of your intentions it would be allowed - and in fact probably escorted as well. Have you tried?
As to your reply to the question of what you have done as far as actions over words, the context of that question was in regard to the Reschard relief efforts.
Quote:
And what exactly is wrong with seeking to discredit a bunch of brigands complicit in the destruction of a humanitarian escort fleet...
Nothing is wrong with it. By all means, start discrediting. You could start here. Some starters for you: The convoy was not in "BoB space" and they had no knowledge of our actual planned route other than the destination and intention we made public when they jumped in.
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Sharken
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Desius
Edited by: Desius on 26/02/2006 16:15:41
You obviously missed the point.
Our intentions and actions were made clear in a very public manner without the slightest subterfuge. This is a press release informing the public of the atrocities committed against our humanitarian efforts.
If you wish to come here and try to tell us our motivations not humanitarian based simply on your speculation with no evidence to the contrary it won't be received any better than a random dog barking up a tree.
Regardles of your personal opinion on the motivation behind our aid convoy - what have you done or tried to do by action? What is your contribution? All I've seen in response are words aimed to discredit.
Thought so.
All we hear from you is hot empty air full of rhetoric. Hot air is fine when however that empty rhetoric costs lives it is nothing short of tyranny.
You see I have had to listen to you spouting on endlessly about how wonderful the so called æinalienable rightÆ to self determination is. About how you respect anyoneÆs right to set boundaries and then you take a haulier and drive it right through those boundaries and try to blame people for defending boundaries that you said you respect. All you have done is expose yourself for the tyrant you really are. The sad thing is it has cost lives needlessly.
As for Jericho Fraction our ideology is not just empty words that we looked up in a dictionary. We practice free space with anyone who wishes to respect the same. It is not simply empty rhetoric we share time and help anyone who asks for it and we have an open and friendly approach to all we meet until they fire on us. We practice what we preach on a daily basis.
All you have done here is run a great big hauler right through the middle of your own Nationalist doctrine. All you have done here is expose yourself as the vile snake you really are.
Sharken
Member of Silent Running
"Why is our CEO wearing a black rubber mask?" |
Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 17:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Destable on 26/02/2006 17:52:50
Originally by: Sharken
All you have done here is run a great big hauler right through the middle of your own Nationalist doctrine. All you have done here is expose yourself as the vile snake you really are.
Sharken
Not true in the slightest. You see, while we are immensely saddened and shocked that our aid convoy was so callously destroyed, we very much do accept that those ruling the regions we enetered have a right to do with us what is appropriate for thier laws and customs.
I can hate the action, but also defend to my dying day the right to make the action.
PS I may have been so taken by your arguements, that briefly, just briefly I decided that I not only wanted to make a difference personally for the people of Reschard, but also wanted to do so in a manner I was sure you wouldn't object to, so that you might come to accept us in your brothers in arms. Since JF seemed to so side so strongly against those who interrupted the SOE convoy, we decided to use thier model (with major improvements) in order to please you. We so wanted, during that brief time of conversion, to make you see that we were trying to understand and help. Though saddened by the result of the convoy, we were lifted in spirit knowing that when we reported our effort on the forums, you would take our side, and maybe even take us under your wing and teach us.
Your character has flipped though. And you condemn us for being on the opposite side of what you had condemned us for to begin with. Our sadness was unbearable, and our brief conversion was broken. If anything, we now are more focused on our original belief system than ever.
gg
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Sharken
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Posted - 2006.02.26 18:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sharken on 26/02/2006 18:12:09
Originally by: Destable
Edited by: Destable on 26/02/2006 17:52:50
Not true in the slightest. You see, while we are immensely saddened and shocked that our aid convoy was so callously destroyed, we very much do accept that those ruling the regions we enetered have a right to do with us what is appropriate for thier laws and customs.
I can hate the action, but also defend to my dying day the right to make the action.
PS I may have been so taken by your arguements, that briefly, just briefly I decided that I not only wanted to make a difference personally for the people of Reschard, but also wanted to do so in a manner I was sure you wouldn't object to, so that you might come to accept us in your brothers in arms. Since JF seemed to so side so strongly against those who interrupted the SOE convoy, we decided to use thier model (with major improvements) in order to please you. We so wanted, during that brief time of conversion, to make you see that we were trying to understand and help. Though saddened by the result of the convoy, we were lifted in spirit knowing that when we reported our effort on the forums, you would take our side, and maybe even take us under your wing and teach us.
Your character has flipped though. And you condemn us for being on the opposite side of what you had condemned us for to begin with. Our sadness was unbearable, and our brief conversion was broken. If anything, we now are more focused on our original belief system than ever.
gg
so we finally reach the truth that is Venturecorpse. Half truths, and the machinations of manipulation. You were never really interested in securing humanitarian aid all you wanted to do was to try to entangle JF. Now that this has not worked and since we have exposed the inconsistency in your actions you come back with a half thought out reply all the while still defending the Pigdog.
Every time you post you expose more of the farce of VenturecorpseÆs æhumanitarianismÆ. So go ahead, be my guest and respond again. 
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 18:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sharken
Half truths, and the machinations of manipulation.
Irony.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 18:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Desius
Jade, I'm quite sure if you contacted IRON/G/Razor with enough advance warning of your intentions it would be allowed - and in fact probably escorted as well. Have you tried?
Is continually "mistaking" me for the JF CEO your level of subtle trolling? My name is Jasmine Constantine and I've been a free capsule pilot in the north of Eve since before you earned your license. Have a bit of respect you jumped up toady. 
If you can't be bothered to respond to the right person then don't respond at all. Keep spinning your deluded spun versions of current events and lets see who pays you any attention long term.
And by the by. If you really think I'm miss (can't fight for space toffee) Jade Constantine I invite you to challenge me to a spaceship fight. I'll be happy to remove you from your battleship to educate your bony backside on the merits of my individuality first hand.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Morrganna
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Posted - 2006.02.26 18:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Morrganna on 26/02/2006 18:50:32
yes this is a sad day indeed for all the orphans of reschard, for this vile and inhumane band of brothers to destroy a relief convoy. what is this universe coming to when people feel threatened by food and bandages being sent through their space.
i would hope that the government of reschard would open up the adaption of these orphans to capsuleer pilots in hopes that they might can lead a somwhat normal life.
venturecorp this was a great deed you were doing i only hope you can keep up the good work.
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Morrganna
venturecorp this was a great deed you were doing i only hope you can keep up the good work.
We shall surely try Morrganna!
Dest
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
My name is Jasmine Constantine and I've been a free capsule pilot in the north of Eve since before you earned your license. Have a bit of respect you jumped up toady.
If you can't be bothered to respond to the right person then don't respond at all. Keep spinning your deluded spun versions of current events and lets see who pays you any attention long term.
And by the by. If you really think I'm miss (can't fight for space toffee) Jade Constantine I invite you to challenge me to a spaceship fight. I'll be happy to remove you from your battleship to educate your bony backside on the merits of my individuality first hand.
I'm sorry, 34 entire days my senior doesn't earn you a wink passing in local much less the automatic respect you seem to require.
I figured the "right by the gun" method of diplomacy that you're constantly extolling as one of the 'bad' things about the north would eventually take hold after words failed. I'm sorry, I generally don't pilot battleships much anymore. Too many more useful ships to pilot these days. 
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:59:00 -
[28]
Jasmine!
I love that "cult" reference. You've ended a creative block and given me a great idea!
xoxo
Dest
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Alexison
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Posted - 2006.02.26 20:29:00 -
[29]
Maybe next time The Servant Sisters of Eve could be most gracious to provide your convoy with dreadnoughts so you can jump to the target system directly instead of waltzing around the galaxy deliberety giving free ganks to any pirate organization nearby.
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 20:38:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Destable on 26/02/2006 20:37:57
Originally by: Alexison
Maybe next time The Servant Sisters of Eve could be most gracious to provide your convoy with dreadnoughts so you can jump to the target system directly instead of waltzing around the galaxy deliberety giving free ganks to any pirate organization nearby.
That would indeed kick ass. I'll give it a shot...
Thanks!
Dest
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:21:00 -
[31]
Dest, shoot for a titan. We'll need it to create the portal for the freighters to move through. 
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Death Merchant
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sharken
All we hear from you is hot empty air full of rhetoric.
Someone from JF actually wrote that? OMFG!!! .. Falls out of chair laughing.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:26:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Desius
I'm sorry, 34 entire days my senior doesn't earn you a wink passing in local much less the automatic respect you seem to require. I figured the "right by the gun" method of diplomacy that you're constantly extolling as one of the 'bad' things about the north would eventually take hold after words failed. I'm sorry, I generally don't pilot battleships much anymore. Too many more useful ships to pilot these days.
I'm sorry my universal translation software has troubles transcribing "invertebrate", is that you making excuses and backing out of a fight?
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:42:00 -
[34]
Yes, seems your translators are malfunctioning. I was making it plain that such a silly display wouldn't be worth my time. I have many more constructive things to do.
Perhaps another time. Rain check? 
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:44:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Desius
Yes, seems your translators are malfunctioning. I was making it plain that such a silly display wouldn't be worth my time. I have many more constructive things to do. Perhaps another time. Rain check?
Interesting that fighting for your territorialist beliefs isn't worth your time but posting nonsense on galnet is considered a valuable use of resources though. Says quite a lot about Venturecorp no ?
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:53:00 -
[36]
Simply put, your schoolyard posturing doesn't interest me in the slightest; much like people demanding 1v1 duels in local. I don't pander to attempts to get a rise. It's quite sad that you think such a conflict would settle anything of value.
Apologies if this disappoints you. *smooch*
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:01:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Desius
Simply put, your schoolyard posturing doesn't interest me in the slightest; much like people demanding 1v1 duels in local. I don't pander to attempts to get a rise. It's quite sad that you think such a conflict would settle anything of value. Apologies if this disappoints you. *smooch*
But its very interesting no? Your whole ideology seems predicated on the "might makes right" angle of 0.0 settlement ... Destable has written pages on the glory of nationalism and the imposition of government by force of arms in the lawless regions of 0.0. Yet as soon as you are faced with a challenge to combat from someone you understand to be your superior in the martial arts of warfare you disappear into a hole and talk about how violence doesn't mean anything? This tells me (and I'd assume anyone following the discussion) absolutely everything that needs to be known about the ethical basis of your sovereignty claims. You cite "might makes right" wnen you have the advantage but hide under the covers like a startled rabbit the moment somebody offers you an even fight.
Speaks volumes.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jasmine Constantine
You cite "might makes right" wnen you have the advantage but hide under the covers like a startled rabbit the moment somebody offers you an even fight.
Speaks volumes.
Not that I'm doubting that Desius could probobly win, or at least give a spectacular showing if he chose to fight you 1 vs. 1.........
But, your arguments are just getting silly now. isn't the very defination of "Might makes Right" that of having the advantage? Is your misguided interpretation of our philosophy that you think that we advocate fighting even when seriously disadvantaged? Part of making "Might makes Right" successful, Jasmine, is not allowing an enemy an obvious advantage. That would just be silly.
Silly. I've never allowed myself to be teased into a fight either, and I'm happily smug about that. I fight to win.
However, you intrigue me. I'd be happy to fight you 1 vs. 1 if we could actually accomodate your "fair fight" statement. I'm quite sure that you are MUCH wealthier than I am, since we as a corp have never been particularly interested in material things. So I cannot afford faction battleships, or modules that cost 100m each. Maybe we can come to terms though.
Maybe. And if we do, I'll say now that I'm not sure if I'll win. Things happen. I once destroyed a fully fitten assault frigate flown by a very experienced pilot with my crow. That's not supposed to really be possible.
You see, that's the thing...you win, I win, doesn't really matter. I'll still beleive in the "Might makes Right" philosophy as you over-simplistically put it. Losing a battle makes no impact on a personal philosphy, otherwise I would have been forced to abandon mine many many times before. You will have proven nothing.
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Destable
Not that I'm doubting that Desius could probobly win, or at least give a spectacular showing if he chose to fight you 1 vs. 1......... But, your arguments are just getting silly now. isn't the very defination of "Might makes Right" that of having the advantage? Is your misguided interpretation of our philosophy that you think that we advocate fighting even when seriously disadvantaged?
So are you saying that though you are convinced Desius could beat me easily in 1v1 you won't advocate the fight because to duel 1v1 involves your man being "seriously disadvantaged?" maybe you are a much cleverer man than me Destable but I just can't seem to understand what it is you are saying here.
Either Desius would kick my ass and win easily or he's too much of a worm to survive the rigors of single combat? Which is it?
Quote:
However, you intrigue me. I'd be happy to fight you 1 vs. 1 if we could actually accomodate your "fair fight" statement. I'm quite sure that you are MUCH wealthier than I am, since we as a corp have never been particularly interested in material things. So I cannot afford faction battleships, or modules that cost 100m each. Maybe we can come to terms though.
Any battleship, any equipment, no limitations. We both meet in 0.0 with just the pair of us in a system. We warp to a planet at a range of our indiviudal choice and fight to the death. I'm happy to do this in pureblind some night this week. Lets say 23:00 hours + evetime ?
And for the record, I'm quite aware it won't lead to a change of your mindset or any increased respect either way. It would be much to much to hope for that it might open your eyes etc. My reason for fighting you is that you are the enemy and I'm happy to kill you one ship at a time. If I win it proves individual pilot skill counts for something in the world of big alliance greed and territorial conceit, if I lose it proves people exist with the courage to spit in the eye of the man.
So, terms accepted?
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:54:00 -
[40]
As a matter of fact, I'll do you one better.
If it will help diffuse some of your anger, and bring you off tilt, I'll let you blow up my battleship with no fight. Then, I'll publically call you teh uber pvp pilot, and let everyone know that pwned me.
Then, once that's done, and your personal superiority has been satiated, we can continue to debate large scale group dynamics and philosophy.
After all, it is not about individuals. Nor about a particular group being stronger. It's about the right of the strong to determine national destiny. You think I've never been on the losing side?
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:58:00 -
[41]
Just a side note, actually, more of an observation.
You've been doing alot of name calling of individuals...."worm" being the last in a string of them throughout multiple posts. Had you noticed?
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.02.26 23:10:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 26/02/2006 23:13:50
Sigh, you think this is about me proving I'm the better pilot than you Destable? You are seriously wrong. This is about me demonstrating that individuals do matter in the big scheme of things and individual ambitions are worth a lot more than your nationalist ideology admits. And this is the crux of the issue. The reason Venturecorp and Jericho Fraction are blood enemies today is that you adopted an "if you are not with us you are against us" diplomatic position which is the diplomatic equivilent of a child's tantrum.
We opted not to get involved with the gravtrainwreak that was the fall of the NSA in the war against BOB because though we believed you were in the wrong both sides were our allies and it didn't feel right to shoot either of them.
In response to that you formed IRON and decided to punish those you decided hadn't been "loyal" enough to your cause or subordinate enough to your interests. You decided that individual decisions were always to be submissive to collective decisions and no corporation had a right to make its own mind up about diplomatic choices.
Thats why we are enemies now Destable. Your ambition and vision of nationalist unity and standings enclosurism makes us enemies.
The point I am making by calling out Desius (and now yourself) is that you are wrong. Individual pilot identity and choice and skill matters a lot in the universe of Eve and regardless of the numbers and advantage you sometimes have there will come a time when you will have to account for your actions and opinions as an individual.
By calling you out I am hastening that day and illustrating that the perception of strength you seek through the "might makes right" ideology is a double-edged sword and any pure combat pilot can make you pay a heavy price for your prideful statements.
You have learned very little from your experience with alliances I think. NSA died for its pride and poor diplomacy. IRON has elevated those failings to a virtue in its leadership. Jericho Fraction never needed to be a foe of yours but you chose the path of war from misplaced pride and false authority in the territorial claims you desire.
So, what do I gain from fighting you?
Satisfaction and a shot at the face of a tyrant. Maybe one day you will understand (or admit to yourself) that its nothing but your own misplaced desire to control and constrict the freedom of others that generates hostility and opposition to your actions. Maybe one day you'll see that the old memetics of collectivism and nationalist ideology have no place in the 0.0 frontier. Maybe one day you'll look at the wreckage of your corporation and ambitions and realise that there is a better way. Who knows, but one has to comment that for the CEO of corporation like Venturecorp that has been exploiting the riches of executordom and 0.0 mining for years to plead poverty on the build up to a starship duel with a simple roving JF combat pilot is very much an admission of the failing of your economics and political system and a definitive example of the difference between us.
I want diplomacy conducted between corporations.
I want an end to standings enclosurism.
I want to deal as an equal with equals in faith and honour.
I honestly think you are in the wrong Destable and if debate won't make you change your mind then maybe demonstrating the inferiority of your combat methodology will.
Any which way its better than surrendering to the collectivist morass of sub-imperialist diatribe I've been hearing from your members recently.
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.27 01:48:00 -
[43]
Hmm let's cut through the bull here.
This is list of industrial ships killed in event in question:
* mammoth, pilot Jimmy McGee
* badger mk II, pilot McBryan
* mammoth, pilot Nickel Deuce
* badger mk II, pilot Megan Ryder
* badger mk II, pilot DDaisy
* mammoth, pilot Desius
* mammoth, pilot Jaeger Orlofsson
* mammoth, pilot Zidock
* bestower, pilot vladdy2
* badger mk II, pilot the MoP
.. according to CONCORD-provided lists of cargo destructed with these ships, it shows clear what these ships were carrying is actually ammunition and military ship equipment (including tech.2 gear) ... along with empty containers. Some humanitarian aid, indeed.
It's quite hillarious VentureCorp is doing the very thing they've accused SoE of, and which was used in lame attempt to justify the attack on the SoE convoy... too bad for them unlike the case of SoE convoy, here we have clear evidence of such activity. And well, given the bald-faced lies spouted in this very thread about supposed nature of their small excursion, the credibility of pilots involved has dropped quite a bit... also in regard to the earlier SoE incident.
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.27 02:35:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Desius on 27/02/2006 02:42:32
Edited by: Desius on 27/02/2006 02:40:35
Edited by: Desius on 27/02/2006 02:36:22
Originally by: j0sephine
.. along with empty containers. Some humanitarian aid, indeed.
Look at the manifest visual logs and compare it to the killmails. You will find they are accurate and you will clearly see aid supplies, personnel, and other goods in the base holds of the ships. You will find that the only ammunition on the ships were small amounts for their single weapon. We're talking industrial ships here so please don't try to say these were combat vessels, everyone knows better. Tech2? Are you suggesting we shouldn't fit our ships out to the best of our abilities? One would think you were actually arguing against the theory some have mentioned with regards to us taking ships out for the sole reason of being destroyed. Is it not logical that we would have fit out basic tech1 haulers with absolutely nothing in the cargo if that were the case? I honestly don't see the point you are trying to make.
Without breaking through the fourth wall too much here... (which you are doing, btw... wrong forum for it I'm afraid)
Obviously there must have been an error with the planhk stabilizers and the cargo was lost upon the destruction of the actual cans as they were destroyed, much like those doomed SoE freighters mysteriously imploding for reasons noone has yet been able to ascertain.
This is the best theory I can come up with and unless someone can bring me authentic visual cargo scanner data showing the contents of the SoE "relief" freighter's cargo holds full of medical supplies - it's the theory I am most likely to stick with.
*adds a helpful example to your reading list.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.02.27 03:19:00 -
[45]
Edited by: j0sephine on 27/02/2006 03:21:41
"Without breaking through the fourth wall too much here... (which you are doing, btw... wrong forum for it I'm afraid)"
Am afraid i don't see how hyper-linking to public databank of CONCORD kill-mails maintained by well-known alliance is somehow breaking anything. Especially when the information available there is identical with information provided in the announcement that started this thread... down to (almost... read below) the content of kill-mails in question.
Regarding content of the destroyed ships... no, will have to disagree here. The images provided in the original announcements show the ships loaded with containers, with no proof of their actual content. According to CONCORD kill-mails, these containers were empty. The VentureCorp pilots claim they were instead filled with humanitarian aid, and supposedly this information about no cargo in them is somehow result of up-to-now never acknowledged physics glitch. On top of this complicated explanation, curiously enough the information about destroyed containers being empty appears to be painstakingly edited out from the kill-mails shown with the original announcement ... with no indication of any sort that such tampering with official documents actually took place.
Overall am sorry, but this all looks like another very shoddy attempt to turn public attention from original issue, that is from the attack performed by IRON on the SoE-endorsed humanitarian convoy. About as shoddy as the original attack in question... which perhaps should not be surprising, given the close ties between these involved in them both.
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Nooey
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Posted - 2006.02.27 05:47:00 -
[46]
Nooey grins.
Nice one j0.
VentureCorp credibility is indeed zero/nada/zilch.
Nice try though guys, had us all fooled for those few nanoseconds before commonsense kicks in.
____________
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Davey Locke
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:28:00 -
[47]
j0sephine wrote:
Quote:
Regarding content of the destroyed ships... no, will have to disagree here. The images provided in the original announcements show the ships loaded with containers, with no proof of their actual content. According to CONCORD kill-mails, these containers were empty. The VentureCorp pilots claim they were instead filled with humanitarian aid, and supposedly this information about no cargo in them is somehow result of up-to-now never acknowledged physics glitch. On top of this complicated explanation, curiously enough the information about destroyed containers being empty appears to be painstakingly edited out from the kill-mails shown with the original announcement ... with no indication of any sort that such tampering with official documents actually took place.
Hmmm...good point Jo...and when did you last have 'evidence' of a freighter (or any shiptype) exploding in mid-warp? Infact as we are all experienced pilots here I'm certain one of us can recount such an event and waking up in a fresh clone....anyone? 
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Davey Locke
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:00:00 -
[48]
...Infact J0 ...arent you part of the current up-to-now acknowledged glitch that causes most things to explode pre-warp!
No doubt your presence here is just to cause more chaos in what is already a chaotic tragedy! BOB and humanitarian have never mixed...I dont understand why you need to comment on those who actually try to make a constructive difference to those in immediate need.
Maybe BOB would like to show us how aid should be delivered. I welcome the report that shows your immediate involvement in the relief of a Reschand.
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Ortu Konsinni
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:00:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Ortu Konsinni on 27/02/2006 16:00:38
After reading this...
Originally by: Desius
The Servant Sisters of Eve were gracious enough to assist in the effort by supplying VentureCorp with one of their newest, most sophisticated navigation computers in order to route the convoy safely and directly to Reschard.
...and looking carefully at this map:
Astrogation System Route for Relief Convoy
...I cannot help but think the good ol' Sisters must've had a nice bit of fun, laughs and giggles.
---
Ship Gallery |
Rift Scorn
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:47:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Rift Scorn on 27/02/2006 17:47:50
Destable, as a Caldari, especially a Deitis, you are with either remarkably clever, or remarkably dim-witted.
This releif convoy held no finanicial gain of any type! Although, as a fellow Caldari i truely feel the pain of a planet wiped out, i also have to measure this weight against the both the fiscal and military benefits of such a ventrure, and 'ill planned' just does not sum it up.
There was no immediate benfit to VNTR from this trip, unless you plan to future endear yourself to various organisations that could in teh future yeild you and yours a potential up-turn in quaterly and yearly figures; that was clever. Sowing the seeds of potential growth. Yet poorly planned, our grat state has always pitted corporation against corporation against each other until the strongest stand tall and the smaller corps are either destroyed through their own inepitude or assimilated, furethermore this has led to glorious mailitary might that is the heritage of every Caldari. You did not so much as take any 'might' with you.
So, you plan to engratiate yourself with certain factions which leads to not only the humanitarian aid needed so badly, and doing great good as well as turning a tidy profit; or you planned poorly and paid for it from your own corporations finances. As i say, very clever, or very stupid.
Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03! |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:59:00 -
[51]
People please.
Think of the orphans.
Consider your sig tainted, and all your alcohol stolen - Wrangler
Beer=Beer+3 |
PuttPutt
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Posted - 2006.02.28 02:50:00 -
[52]
After reading the cargo manifest I stumbled upon something interesting.
http://www.eve-files.com/media/0602/nickel.png
Is it just me, or were the haulers carrying fake documents?
__________
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.28 02:53:00 -
[53]
Originally by: PuttPutt
After reading the cargo manifest I stumbled upon something interesting.
http://www.eve-files.com/media/0602/nickel.png
Is it just me, or were the haulers carrying fake documents?
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.28 02:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Rift Scorn
Edited by: Rift Scorn on 27/02/2006 17:47:50
Destable, as a Caldari, especially a Deitis, you are with either remarkably clever, or remarkably dim-witted.
This releif convoy held no finanicial gain of any type! Although, as a fellow Caldari i truely feel the pain of a planet wiped out, i also have to measure this weight against the both the fiscal and military benefits of such a ventrure, and 'ill planned' just does not sum it up.
There was no immediate benfit to VNTR from this trip, unless you plan to future endear yourself to various organisations that could in teh future yeild you and yours a potential up-turn in quaterly and yearly figures; that was clever. Sowing the seeds of potential growth. Yet poorly planned, our grat state has always pitted corporation against corporation against each other until the strongest stand tall and the smaller corps are either destroyed through their own inepitude or assimilated, furethermore this has led to glorious mailitary might that is the heritage of every Caldari. You did not so much as take any 'might' with you.
So, you plan to engratiate yourself with certain factions which leads to not only the humanitarian aid needed so badly, and doing great good as well as turning a tidy profit; or you planned poorly and paid for it from your own corporations finances. As i say, very clever, or very stupid.
Ask your CEO what his opinion is of my intelligence. I respect his opinions, he knows me as well as most in EVE, and you can take whatever his answer is as OK by me.
Dest
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Kryztal
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Posted - 2006.02.28 08:03:00 -
[55]
Desius i challenge you tooo a dueeeel :P
/me throws a hissy like the JF woman and starts waving her wand around
Comon you cowardly lil munskin !
<3
Black Nova Corp
Bob(TM) Brand Bleach - Eliminates Every Stain |
Kryztal
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Posted - 2006.02.28 08:04:00 -
[56]
Oh yeah and the can in HED marked "Sex Toys", I can have it right ?
Black Nova Corp
Bob(TM) Brand Bleach - Eliminates Every Stain |
Seiryu
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Posted - 2006.02.28 09:21:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kryztal
Oh yeah and the can in HED marked "Sex Toys", I can have it right ?
I can't imagine what an orphan would need those for so you can go ahead and keep those. In fact, I don't know why we brought those in the first place! (PS> you can keep the can filled with Kama Sutra books too, if that survived).
----True bravery is not lacking fear, but confronting it.----
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Diabhalta
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Posted - 2006.02.28 11:37:00 -
[58]
As a traveller in the vast universe that is eve i have many contacts within the senior echelons of all of the large multicorp alliances (except one), for some reason their seems to be MAJOR financial accusations made at two, yet their members refuse to speak out publicly. One of those two was the former IRON alliance before what appears to be an internal takeover was forced on the old management by the new.
Sounds to me like Venture corp are continuing with the lies they liked to promote when they WERE in IRON, so i have been led to believe. They managed to pull the wool over the eyes of MANY when running the finances of IRON, thier brotheren, so why would they not lie to the general populus of eve. Is it not fair to accuse them of a horrific publicity stunt that will have many a reprecussion for them in the long term? who in their right minds would seek to self promote in this sick fashion? taking much needed humanitarian supplies (or so we are lead to believe) through clearly hostile territory and morever claiming that any munnitions onboard where for self defense.
What a load of rubbish, but then i think those that are in the know would have expected little less. For those not in the know, see the depths that VNTR are willing to stoop in a desperate attempt at retainning their self importance in the NEW universe of eve. It may be news to you VNTR but the EVE u USED to believe you had influence over is no longer your baby to manipulate and abuse. The 0.0 of today demands much more than when you lot built your homes, or should i say your soap boxes!
The taller they are, the further they fall.
Welcome to ordinaryness Venture.
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Luke13172
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Posted - 2006.02.28 11:38:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Luke13172 on 28/02/2006 11:37:58
Ok well being one of the pilots envolved in the destruction of said ships .. I could give a rats a** about it honestly .. You should have cleared the route with the higher ups in BoB before even thinking of undocking for christ sake I mean wtf did you think was gona happen ROFL..
On another note... Blame Rev he jumpped in and said 'Oh s*it jump in jump in jump in' on TS and it was a free for all after that we had no idea what was going on just had a screen full of hostile targets that needed to go away as quickly as possible to shut Rev up on TS :)
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Kryztal
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Posted - 2006.02.28 12:56:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Diabhalta
As a traveller in the vast universe that is eve i have many contacts within the senior echelons of all of the large multicorp alliances (except one), for some reason their seems to be MAJOR financial accusations made at two, yet their members refuse to speak out publicly. One of those two was the former IRON alliance before what appears to be an internal takeover was forced on the old management by the new.
Sounds to me like Venture corp are continuing with the lies they liked to promote when they WERE in IRON, so i have been led to believe. They managed to pull the wool over the eyes of MANY when running the finances of IRON, thier brotheren, so why would they not lie to the general populus of eve. Is it not fair to accuse them of a horrific publicity stunt that will have many a reprecussion for them in the long term? who in their right minds would seek to self promote in this sick fashion? taking much needed humanitarian supplies (or so we are lead to believe) through clearly hostile territory and morever claiming that any munnitions onboard where for self defense.
What a load of rubbish, but then i think those that are in the know would have expected little less. For those not in the know, see the depths that VNTR are willing to stoop in a desperate attempt at retainning their self importance in the NEW universe of eve. It may be news to you VNTR but the EVE u USED to believe you had influence over is no longer your baby to manipulate and abuse. The 0.0 of today demands much more than when you lot built your homes, or should i say your soap boxes!
The taller they are, the further they fall.
Welcome to ordinaryness Venture.
Oooohh Big words there fella, why not post with your main ?
VNTR will always be respected for their history in EvE, by those that know them. Dont know how much a noobie corp alt would know them but im sure if you would reveal your main insted of beeing a spineless coward we might understand where your coming from.
DESIUS were is my duel ?
Black Nova Corp
Bob(TM) Brand Bleach - Eliminates Every Stain |
Tiny M
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:09:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Tiny M on 28/02/2006 14:09:48
as for being quoted
"Small puppies make funny sounds when you kick them."
I would never kick puppies, only kittens
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:33:00 -
[62]
Some facts..
Taking the most direct route in 0.0 is oftentimes not the best idea. If there is a conflict ongoing, then diverting arround it makes sense. It also makes sense to pass through systems where you know who is in local, for example in a system where you had stations.
The accident was likely (and there has sofar been no refuting of this) caused by a pilot error on the part of the SOE pilot, who mis-set the parameters of his ships warp drive (since the convoy was under fire) - leading to the disaster.
There is no evidence of munitions being moved (it would not be "smuggling" even if if it were munitions, since they are fully legal in unsecure space), and no reason for munitions to be moved along that route, and every reason for aid supplys to be moved.
Despite anything that Venture corp may claim, they have no reputation as any form of charitable organisation, indeed they argue that they are barbarians. SOE is a well known neutral humanitarian organisaiton and attacks on them are an attack on the very foundations and rule of law which all four Empires hold true to.
Venturecorp are deliberately mocking SOE by this act, especially claiming that their own incompetence in course setting is anything to do with SOE. There is no evidence that they were moving humanitatian supplies, and given their own statements on barbarism I would seriously doubt that anything of the sort was being carried. If it was, I would like to see proof of this.
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.02.28 19:05:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Kryztal
Oooohh Big words there fella, why not post with your main ?
VNTR will always be respected for their history in EvE, by those that know them. Dont know how much a noobie corp alt would know them but im sure if you would reveal your main insted of beeing a spineless coward we might understand where your coming from.
DESIUS were is my duel ?
Keep yer shirt on missy!
..and yes, the Sex Toys can was just for you. I was planning on dropping it off in Delve or Period Basis on our way to Reschard V. However the JF propaganda can was definately meant for the planetside colonists, in order to give them hope and freedom.
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Destable
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Posted - 2006.02.28 20:18:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
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Psychopat
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Posted - 2006.03.01 01:41:00 -
[65]
Ohhh god the horror of it all.
Cant we all just get along
MoooooÖ
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Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.03.01 04:46:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo
now go get a life outside of yer Pod
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.03.01 16:12:00 -
[67]
I feel like such a fool for thinking people might consider a 1v1 challenge a meaningful criticism on the intellectual fallacies and frailties of might makes right nationalism
(time to put in my app to glamour syndicate  )
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:19:00 -
[68]
1v1's dont mean anything in a "dialogue" or "debate" over the rights and wrongs of any arguement IMO. You could kill me 10 times in a 1v1 and i'd still disagree with you, me dying in 1v1s would mean i sux at paper/scissors/rocks continously
Dont be so tough on yourself
1v1s will make you feel good tho but i doubt peeps are going to say, "ok You win and I'm wrong, I win and Your wrong"
Wouldnt you blowing up a persons ship in a 1v1 only further endorse the might makes right thought process?
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2006.03.01 17:32:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Sypher313
1v1's dont mean anything in a "dialogue" or "debate" over the rights and wrongs of any arguement IMO. You could kill me 10 times in a 1v1 and i'd still disagree with you, me dying in 1v1s would mean i sux at paper/scissors/rocks continously
Dont be so tough on yourself
1v1s will make you feel good tho but i doubt peeps are going to say, "ok You win and I'm wrong, I win and Your wrong"
Wouldnt you blowing up a persons ship in a 1v1 only further endorse the might makes right thought process?
That was kinda the point I was making Sypher ... pointing out a fallacy in the "territorialism makes us strong and is thus good" thing. End of the day you can't always rely on other people to do your fighting for you. Sometimes you have to work on your own, get out of bad situations and take responsibilty for your own decisions. And while I can acknowledge that having a gang of buddies blobbing all targets makes you feel powerful, its never really tested until its you and some other enemy duking it out 1v1. Thing with JF, we have some of the best fighters in Eve in small unit tactics but we don't use their skills to bully people who have done us no wrong. We use fighting to make propaganda points and illustrate the vulnerability in territorial memes. So having individual members of a hugely powerful territorialist alliance losing 1v1s to members of little jericho's propaganda engine is something that helps to change other people's minds.
And lets face it. In their heart of hearts, everyone wants to be a hero and single combat is the cauldron that forges heroes into life
_________________
Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction! |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:08:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Sypher313
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo
now go get a life outside of yer Pod
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:57:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 19:57:53
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:58:00 -
[72]
This, in essence, is why I do not agree with your application of your beliefs. Mainly that your application is not universal. You condemn primarily defensive organizations whos offense is geared not for expansion but for maintaining and defending against enemies to their creation at the same time turn a blind eye or even praise organizations which admittedly are destructive usurpers determined to make everything their property, including people..... most likely eventually including you. Unless you're happy to see the galaxy ruled by true tyrants and can actually accept that simply because they're "nice to you." If this is the case, your stated beliefs never were your real motivations.
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 19:58:00 -
[73]
The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group. It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality. The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go. While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest. It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance. It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Back on the point of a 1v1 combat. The only thing that would ever show is that one pilot's skills, wealth, and in some aspects ability exceeded the other pilot due to time investment, specialization, a better aptitude for engagement, or a big wallet. It serves little purpose other than individual martial bragging rights but never actually concedes a point unless that point was "I'm a better military pilot than this other individual." Would I fight you for fun? yes. Would I fight you to defend a belief, asset, ally, or cause? yes. Would I fight you to settle an argument that had no relation to 'who was the better combat pilot"? No. I believe such outmoded concepts such as "let the best man win" being the de facto decider over a philosophical stance between indivuduals are preposterous. Much akin to a clan leader being chosen based entirely on besting all other comers and declared ruler with the reasoning "He defeated everyone in solo combat therefore he is god's chosen speaker and what he says must be the truth."
I believe you must build something greater than yourself by blood, sweat, and tears. I believe that in order to achieve this you need to work with like-minded individuals, therefore creating groups. I believe that what you have built should be protected and that the act of creating something does not inherently give those who put no effort into building it the right to share it, especially if their core philosophical belief is aimed to tear it down. You're not entitled to the wages of my labor simply because you want money. I believe nothing worth doing is easy.
You want nations without borders with complete freedom of choice, thought, and movement for every individual. I admit it is a noble ideal to follow and perhaps by making an effort in that direction you are ahead of your time but until humanity agrees as a group it will never happen - while 'kill for fun' organizations like BoB exist you will never be able to achieve this as you will always have to defend borders against those who simply wish to gain the power, prestige, wealth, and control of owning it.
The region you seem to prop up as the best example of the antithesis to your beliefs is Deklein. You seem to have almost simgled it out for attack. I find that quite IRONic as Dek is currently one of the most open and accepting regions in the known universe. IRON was founded to build deklein into a propering community and keep it safe from the BoB's of the universe. Defence policy switched to NBSI in reaction to groups taking advantage of the initial leniance with intent to tear it down. Perhaps eventually that can be changed and borders freely opened again - but not while it has so many enemies. If people wish to be a part of the Deklein community and actually assist in it's achievement instead of trying to disrupt and tear down it is rather easy to join. If someone is an enemy to IRON then there is generally a protective reason for it.
(continued...)
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:04:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
I would love to actually debate an argument if I saw one Maya. Unfortunately most of what I see these days are variations of ad hominem attacks and not much else.
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:18:00 -
[75]
I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:38:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 20:43:08
Edited by: Desius on 01/03/2006 20:40:15
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
Yes. I saw the physics theories you posited as the cause of the freighter destruction.
I am unqualified to debate those theories as it is not my field of expertise. Alternatively, as there seems to be no precedent to apply this theory in this given case, coupled with the fact that what was quoted was at this point in the scientific community entirely unproven theory and conjecture I do not believe you are in a position, yourself, to argue it is fact of truth.
Scientifically, I cannot disprove or refute it and you likewise cannot show proof of fact - Effectively rendering it moot to true debate. You posited the theory, therefore the burden of proof is on you. To reverse that burden is entirely ineffectual.
Interesting stuff though
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Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:38:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Sypher313
Originally by: Destable
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I would like to call on all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp until such time as they publically refute their statement and remove Desius from any position of authority.
Boycott what? We don't really sell much, we're not recruiting, and we feel quite secure in our very strong friendships with many hundreds of corps.
Desius is a great leader, and a great man. He will have a position of authority within VentureCorp for as long as he chooses :)
all i gotta say is, BoooHoo Maya, Booohooo
now go get a life outside of yer Pod
I'm sorry, are you unable to refute my argument and act the clown because I'm right?
Heh.
No i just act the clown for the giggle, nothing to do with you being right in any way shape or form.
I was mainly reacting to you wanting all civilised pilots to boycot venturecorp and to have VentureCorp remove Desius from any position of authority we could post and request the same of your corp and members but in my opinion it'd just be us being a bunch of whiny podlings making totaly unreasonable demands, so i said..... BoooHooo Maya Boooohooo
Truth is you JF peeps annoy me with your propaganda crap that "OMG teh North is evil whaaaa boohoo they dont like us they should go, they dont let us in their space and cant stop us anyway from getting in, whaaa they should all die. We're just innocent folks just minding our own business trying to carry on our lives not interfeiring with anyone, OMG IRON is oppressing us whaaa. (im paraphrasing btw) and much more similar well written utter crap in my opinion.
Truth is your a bunch of **** disturbers, always stirring it up, always have been, always will be, its who you are and what you do
and yeah we are poking fun at you over this whole SOE thing cuz well you saw an opportunity to slander (repeatedly) IRON and hoping you gain polity points and post your bs for the next 30 pages over two communications bands. It had been a while since JF has had a 10 pager going so you're about due, looks like this is it......
So get going, puke it all out, you've said it 10,000 times and the other side has said it 10,000 times, its the same cruddy thread after thread on the same subject adnausium month after month, atleast you dont get tired of it (i'll hand ya that)
I dont have the time to invest in "getting into it" that you JF toons do. So my contribution is to act like a clown and maybe once or twice make a post that might actually contribute to the conversation, but that is rare
so yea LOOK at me OO the clown, but you are still wrong
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Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.03.01 20:40:00 -
[78]
you can take your systematic hyper-physics and jam them in that Exploding Sun you call your er ..head
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Seiryu
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Posted - 2006.03.01 22:20:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
I suggest you train reading comprehension then.
Becuase what I have posted includes a systematic hyper-physics explination (in the other thread) of the true likely cause of the disaster - I'd refer you to it.
Your less coherent members are likely to get one liner replies, yes. You? I'd just hunt you if I saw you in space
The problem with that explanation is that we weren't shooting at them when they warped. They were safe in empire with no immediate threat.
----True bravery is not lacking fear, but confronting it.----
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ForceAttuned Krogoth
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Posted - 2006.03.02 07:14:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Desius
Jade, I'm quite sure if you contacted IRON/G/Razor with enough advance warning of your intentions it would be allowed - and in fact probably escorted as well. Have you tried?
As to your reply to the question of what you have done as far as actions over words, the context of that question was in regard to the Reschard relief efforts.
Quote:
And what exactly is wrong with seeking to discredit a bunch of brigands complicit in the destruction of a humanitarian escort fleet...
Nothing is wrong with it. By all means, start discrediting. You could start here. Some starters for you: The convoy was not in "BoB space" and they had no knowledge of our actual planned route other than the destination and intention we made public when they jumped in.
i am speaking not for iron but my self in this matter
when the jove came to dek they were not shot at we had loads of people out side the station to greet them to our space, but we knew that they were coming.
If you posted about your "trip" on the forums, i my self would have been there to welcome you in to our space, and i am sure i would not stand alone. We have many guests enter our space from day to day but they ask first.
Also about this being a mock of your "supply run" well im not saying it was or was not but still, they did the same thing you did with the same intention and with the same result, using the same concept, so if our "Mock" trip would never work why would you ever think that yours would.
Then after knowing your trip would never work post on the News that IRON is all these things when BoB did the same thing... i think that they should be healed at the same lvl if you want to compare what IRON did and what BoB did to each convoy.
FORCEATTUNED KROGOTH [INTG] [IRON]
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Desius
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Posted - 2006.03.02 20:14:00 -
[81]
Naw Krogoth, as far as I am aware JF has absolutely no involvement in the Sisters of Eve/Mordu freighter op. They just came onto the forums afterwards to condemn IRON for being involved in attacking it.
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Sharken
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:02:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Desius
The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group. It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality. The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go. While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest. It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance. It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Would you mind rephrasing that?
I have absolutely no clue what it is your trying to say.
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Sypher313
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Posted - 2006.03.02 21:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sharken
Originally by: Desius
The fallacy I see with the "individualist is in all ways, at all times better than nationalist" argument is that even in a nationalistic organization you have individuals just as capable as any other group.
It's not just cut and dry indivudial vs mob mentality.
The biggest difference I see is in the application and beliefs. On a macro level a group like ourselves, IRON, etc, believe in joint effort reaping joint rewards based on often similar but occassionally different motivations is the best way to go.
While, and understand this is just what I've seen lately, groups like Jericho only believe in themselves and their personal goals as individuals and get upset when outside pressure is put upon them in the slightest.
It seems too fixated on a wish to be the underdog solely for the sake of the same. Hence the "they don't tell us what to do" stance.
It's not part of anything larger than themselves and the indivudual is the crux of power.
Would you mind rephrasing that?
I have absolutely no clue what it is your trying to say.
I spaced it out some that might help, but i will leave the "rephrasing" to Desius
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Sharken
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Posted - 2006.03.02 23:05:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Sypher313
I spaced it out some that might help, but i will leave the "rephrasing" to Desius
Thanks now it looks even more complicated.
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Gussi
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Posted - 2006.03.03 22:37:00 -
[85]
Wish I was there.. oh well.. maybe next time. |
ParMizaN
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Posted - 2006.03.03 23:29:00 -
[86]
I am a firm believer in natural election; those who are weak die while those who are strong prevail. Forget about those too weak and lazy to help themselves and concentrate more on building your own power and wealth.
My congratulations go to the Band of Brothers who hopefully showed these sympathetic weaklings some sense.
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside
How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful
I Luv Teh Parm!!1 - Imaran |
1naz
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Posted - 2006.03.05 15:10:00 -
[87]
sweet 8)
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Gnaeus Shalla
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Posted - 2006.03.15 20:26:00 -
[88]
You're all a waste of carbon.
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Sirrakhis
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2006.10.28 22:28:00 -
[89]
This still saddens me.
We wil have to make another "humanitarian" effort again soon.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Whip-*****er
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Rick Thwaites
The Carrion Expedition
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Posted - 2006.10.29 00:30:00 -
[90]
The supplies to me look suspiciously like materials used for the building of a station, and supplies that the workers use. What I didn't understand was the Minmatar electronics? They have those?! I thought their flight systems were men with telescopes...
--
Max sig dimensions are 400W x 120H - Cathath ([email protected])
Not the first time I have been told I am too big... |
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