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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:26:00 -
[1]
Whats the deal with people hating on stabs?
Im a straight up carebear so im sure im just not seeing the potential here but 99.9% of the complaints im seeing are just "OMFG DEY RAN AWAYS!!" where pirates get bitter becuase someone actually retreated.
Thoughts?
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Captain Merkin
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:37:00 -
[2]
Simply because sometimes its very annoying when a ship runs whilst being tackled with 7 points worth of warp disruptors..
I have no problem with them myself and will even use them from time to time in my more expensive ships that I dont want to loose....
But they should be moved to high slots imo
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Garataus
Thoughts?
In my eyes there is nothing wrong with using them as a defensive module. I frown on people who use them offensively *all the time*. I can see why you would want to use them in some situations but mweh.. *rabble rabble*
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Garataus on 26/02/2006 14:40:43
So again the counter-argument is that its annoying? Isnt the whole point of fitting a full rack of them in a geddon just to avoid a single type of module (the scams)? If we nurph them as MANY people have suggested how would one get around a scram boat? It would only benifit gate campers.
Edit: I guess thats what im asking, as a carebear i dont see the offensive uses of them. I would greatly appricate somone explaining
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: HippoKing on 26/02/2006 14:41:49
people who use them all on the time, on ships designed for PvP, simply so they can gank weak targets, with no real risk are a bit annoying. also, you need to blob them 3 vs 1 to even get them to say still long enough to die, at which point they usually whine on local that you suck because you have to blob them to death
edit: using them on ships not intended for PvP has no problems IMO
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:41:00 -
[6]
People hate stabs because they want to kill other people ... and when their target don't want to get killed, it's cowardice, of course ...
Making the stabs high slot items would only make the problem worse : right now, you have to choose between armor tank, damage mods or stabs ... in high slots, we would see armor tank or damage mods AND stabs on all those ships that have an "utility" high slot or that can spare a turret/launcher or two ...
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
People hate stabs because they want to kill other people ... and when their target don't want to get killed, it's cowardice, of course ...
Making the stabs high slot items would only make the problem worse : right now, you have to choose between armor tank, damage mods or stabs ... in high slots, we would see armor tank or damage mods AND stabs on all those ships that have an "utility" high slot or that can spare a turret/launcher or two ...
IMO, the point of stabs is giving non combat ships more chances of surviving an hostile encounter. Not allowing pussies to hang around in fully stabbed BS with nearly no risk. I have no problem with anyone having a tank and a full rack of stabs if he has got 0 offensive power.
If you were to make stabs a hi slot module and take around 50tf each, that would pretty much remove them from "combat" viable setups, although I really don't think it entirely solves the problem either
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Hellspawn666
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:13:00 -
[8]
How many times are people gonna hi-jack threads in order to whine about how they hate people who use wcs on combat ships? ITs been discussed hundreads of times with the same outcome from the devs....DROP IT.
WCS are already balanced anyone who says otherwise hasnt tryed to fit one into an armor tank on an apoc where you are already tight for cpu..... fitting wcs seriously gimps most setups there isnt a 5wcs raven setup that pwns all nowadays so its all fair... a Gankageddon with 1 damage mod instead of 4 is quite a difference.
Just remember that a 2+ point warp scram takes 30 cpu, compaired to 2 wcs which costs 2 low slots(more important most of the time) plus a whopping 60 cpu. Thats the balance, if someone has a fulll set of them fitted and is pvping his guns will SUCK thats the bottom line. Putting them in highslights means never catching some bs since geddon with geddon with 8 wcs and 8 nanos... Not only that it would boost ravens since theyt have 2 utlities slots. Dont screw with a system anless its broken.
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Vmir Gallahasen
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:46:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Just remember that a 2+ point warp scram takes 30 cpu, compaired to 2 wcs which costs 2 low slots(more important most of the time) plus a whopping 60 cpu.
Remember that using a 2 pt warp scrambler on a target with 2 stabs will allow the target to escape. For minimum cpu, you would have to have 2x 2 pt warp scramblers (60 tf cpu) or 1x 2pt warp scrambler and 1x 1pt warp scrambler, which is roughly 70tf cpu (iirc).
In addition, warp scramblers have a very specific range, require a target lock, and use capacitor energy. Warp Core Stabs have none of those restrictions.
I expect to see WCS on an industrial, a travel ship, or a barge and when somebody is simply moving a battleship through lowsec/0.0. I am also now seeing interceptors with at least 1 WCS! Cruisers with lows full of WCS shooting at a gate from a safe distance? Battleships sniping with 4 or more WCS?
WCS are overused. That's the best indicator that something needs changing -- not a nerf exactly, but at least a change.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:50:00 -
[10]
Hellspawn i appriciate the fact that you took the time to respond however none of those comments have been hijacks. if you took the time to read the OP's posts (mine) you would see im asking them to make comments exactly like these.
Thanks everyone for the input. I sorta see why people would throw so much hostility twords them however this discussion has just further cemented my opinion that people who hate them only dislike them becuase they didnt get to kill the thing they wanted.. Boo Hoo. Carebear mantra #1 "If my drones cant kill it, RUN!". I dont see whats wrong with running, *shrug*. I guess most people dislike people who run mainly because they deem THAT kind of behavior inappropreate but then suddently all they do is just fine.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:03:00 -
[11]
Whats wrong with stabs being a defensive module? There are alot of other defensive modules in the game, for example damps, td's, ecm AND eccm. And all the tanking mods. You have hardners which reduce damage, just see stabs as warp scrambling hardners, and everything is fine ;).
The problem is people hate when enemy ships escapes more than anything.
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Selim
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:16:00 -
[12]
I think stabs are fine when only one or two are used, because there are valid reasons to use them in combat, but more than that... its ridiculous.
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Electric Cucumber
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Electric Cucumber on 26/02/2006 16:24:20
It's annoying to see ships with 8 low slots of WCS, but what can you do about it ? it's a module that is part of the game and there's nothing you can do about it. Just another thing in a game that most people will whine about like the CS players whine about snipers and in other games there is always something of the kind..
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Flaxita
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:45:00 -
[14]
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.02.26 17:04:00 -
[15]
Let people use them if they want to.
Don't use them if you don't want to.
The other day our camp moaned like hell because a Dominix got away from us after we put 5x-1 strength on him but tbh we'd have said he was a fool to have jumped in and got ganked.
The only thing that does irritate me is people who moan about others using them and then use stabs themselves.
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:00:00 -
[16]
Anything damage related - STACKING NERF
Warp core stabs - Stack away stack away :(.
I rest my case.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Flaxita
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
Thats what you say. But other ppl say there is a tactic called Hit AND Run. Thats where stabs shine.
Originally by: Flaxita
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
And stabs have absolutely nothing to do with smack/flame in local 
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Yaro
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:08:00 -
[18]
It's nothing wrong using wcs on a pvp ship...when u know that there r a lot of hostiles...
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Flaxita
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Breed Love
Originally by: Flaxita
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
Thats what you say. But other ppl say there is a tactic called Hit AND Run. Thats where stabs shine.
Originally by: Flaxita
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
And stabs have absolutely nothing to do with smack/flame in local
hmmm never really saw it from that point of view with the hitn run...
the problem I see there is that a raven with 5 wcs i.e. is not gimped enough considering some1 else has to sacrifice 3-6 med slots for him to be able to hold some1 down...
hitnrun yes, but bigger penalty plz...
maybe no ability to warp scramble if there's a wcs?
i simply have a problem when trying to kill stab users who fight and then run when they see they'd loose and THEN if you get friends moan about beeing outnumbered in local...
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hired goon
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Posted - 2006.02.26 20:59:00 -
[20]
Listen up Garataus. You are a carebear and hate pirates, I understand that. But pirates are users of WCS, and some of the people that hate WCS the most are anti-pirates that would love to clear that gate-sniper for you.
However as it stands, sniping pirates love to fit thousands of WCS and be aligned constantly. Then they will sit at a safespot and smack you in local. This is all because of WCS.
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
-omg-
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Selim
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hired goon
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
sig-worthy
Originally by: hired goon
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:21:00 -
[22]
Hahaha, Thats awsome. No i see your point totally. The whole point of this was for a discussion about this in a straight way without all the name calling and screaming i see most of the time. My hats off to you all.
Hows this then. If they add stacking penalty to stabbs you realise they will add stacking penalty to the anti-stabs too right? Your back to square one then. And if disruptors are ok and stabs not... thats kind of hypocritical doncha think? Sure im a carebear but i really dont hate pirates at all. Ive been killed many a time but i alwase congradulate them. Their just doin their job after all, greif camping or not.
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Yezah
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:26:00 -
[23]
Lmao @ hired goon 
I think a stacking penalty would be good, to prevent WCSing to the extremes.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:28:00 -
[24]
So you agree that stacking penalties are good on stabs but not on scrams?
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Vaarmoth Malinigvious
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:37:00 -
[25]
Scrams have very limited range, and require cap for activation.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:40:00 -
[26]
Touche. How about a major nurph for stabs but then the creation of a more powerful "active stab" that requires cap? That would put it on an equil playing field with scrams and would help to lessen the "bs full of stabbs" problem. He cant maintain his precious tank with these bastards running in full.
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Liare
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Garataus
So you agree that stacking penalties are good on stabs but not on scrams?
"so and so" in my opinion.
scrams put up some rather "hefty" demands compared to stabs, range (two pointers can be countered by nosf) cap consumption, demands target lock and so forth.
i dont mind stabs myself in most situations, but i do mind those "certain" people who think flying a battleship with a full rack of stabs in the low slots make them "skilled" and when they do get wacked by a proper covert ops setup they feel justified in whining end on end on how unfair it is to use eight ships against their one.
i have seen a fair portion of kills disserpear due to stabs, and i dont mind that to be honest. but the sillyness gets too much when you meet Tech 1 frigates with two stabs on trying to PVP, or ravens/geddons with all stabs in the low slots.
_____________________________
Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:45:00 -
[28]
Only thing that bothers me about stab users is when they cry/smack we need to blob them to kill them.
We really don't need the blob to kill them, we just need it so we have enough points to stop the targets warping off which can be very annoying somtimes.
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Liare
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Garataus
Yea i definatly agree with the smack-talk but there isn't an enforceble way to remove it. Smacktalk is the only reason im a carebear for life :P i have 4 mil in combat skills. I just got tired of congradulating my enemies only to get my nose rubbed in it.
heh, im rating people's smacktalk on a 1-10 scale myself, and printing the more memorable ones.
but that is off topic.
_____________________________
Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people. |
Filan
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:54:00 -
[30]
before you go off wanting stabs made a high slot item remember that haulers only have two high slots. course thats exactly what the gate gankers want im sure, make it easier to lock down an indy.
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