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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:26:00 -
[1]
Whats the deal with people hating on stabs?
Im a straight up carebear so im sure im just not seeing the potential here but 99.9% of the complaints im seeing are just "OMFG DEY RAN AWAYS!!" where pirates get bitter becuase someone actually retreated.
Thoughts?
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Captain Merkin
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:37:00 -
[2]
Simply because sometimes its very annoying when a ship runs whilst being tackled with 7 points worth of warp disruptors..
I have no problem with them myself and will even use them from time to time in my more expensive ships that I dont want to loose....
But they should be moved to high slots imo
Proving natural selection and Charles Darwin wrong since 1981.
The Kamikaze pilot
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Slink Grinsdikild
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:39:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Garataus
Thoughts?
In my eyes there is nothing wrong with using them as a defensive module. I frown on people who use them offensively *all the time*. I can see why you would want to use them in some situations but mweh.. *rabble rabble*
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:40:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Garataus on 26/02/2006 14:40:43
So again the counter-argument is that its annoying? Isnt the whole point of fitting a full rack of them in a geddon just to avoid a single type of module (the scams)? If we nurph them as MANY people have suggested how would one get around a scram boat? It would only benifit gate campers.
Edit: I guess thats what im asking, as a carebear i dont see the offensive uses of them. I would greatly appricate somone explaining
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:41:00 -
[5]
Edited by: HippoKing on 26/02/2006 14:41:49
people who use them all on the time, on ships designed for PvP, simply so they can gank weak targets, with no real risk are a bit annoying. also, you need to blob them 3 vs 1 to even get them to say still long enough to die, at which point they usually whine on local that you suck because you have to blob them to death
edit: using them on ships not intended for PvP has no problems IMO
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Kery Nysell
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:41:00 -
[6]
People hate stabs because they want to kill other people ... and when their target don't want to get killed, it's cowardice, of course ...
Making the stabs high slot items would only make the problem worse : right now, you have to choose between armor tank, damage mods or stabs ... in high slots, we would see armor tank or damage mods AND stabs on all those ships that have an "utility" high slot or that can spare a turret/launcher or two ...
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Leshrac Shepherd
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Posted - 2006.02.26 14:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
People hate stabs because they want to kill other people ... and when their target don't want to get killed, it's cowardice, of course ...
Making the stabs high slot items would only make the problem worse : right now, you have to choose between armor tank, damage mods or stabs ... in high slots, we would see armor tank or damage mods AND stabs on all those ships that have an "utility" high slot or that can spare a turret/launcher or two ...
IMO, the point of stabs is giving non combat ships more chances of surviving an hostile encounter. Not allowing pussies to hang around in fully stabbed BS with nearly no risk. I have no problem with anyone having a tank and a full rack of stabs if he has got 0 offensive power.
If you were to make stabs a hi slot module and take around 50tf each, that would pretty much remove them from "combat" viable setups, although I really don't think it entirely solves the problem either
----------------------
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(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Hellspawn666
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:13:00 -
[8]
How many times are people gonna hi-jack threads in order to whine about how they hate people who use wcs on combat ships? ITs been discussed hundreads of times with the same outcome from the devs....DROP IT.
WCS are already balanced anyone who says otherwise hasnt tryed to fit one into an armor tank on an apoc where you are already tight for cpu..... fitting wcs seriously gimps most setups there isnt a 5wcs raven setup that pwns all nowadays so its all fair... a Gankageddon with 1 damage mod instead of 4 is quite a difference.
Just remember that a 2+ point warp scram takes 30 cpu, compaired to 2 wcs which costs 2 low slots(more important most of the time) plus a whopping 60 cpu. Thats the balance, if someone has a fulll set of them fitted and is pvping his guns will SUCK thats the bottom line. Putting them in highslights means never catching some bs since geddon with geddon with 8 wcs and 8 nanos... Not only that it would boost ravens since theyt have 2 utlities slots. Dont screw with a system anless its broken.
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Vmir Gallahasen
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:46:00 -
[9]
Quote:
Just remember that a 2+ point warp scram takes 30 cpu, compaired to 2 wcs which costs 2 low slots(more important most of the time) plus a whopping 60 cpu.
Remember that using a 2 pt warp scrambler on a target with 2 stabs will allow the target to escape. For minimum cpu, you would have to have 2x 2 pt warp scramblers (60 tf cpu) or 1x 2pt warp scrambler and 1x 1pt warp scrambler, which is roughly 70tf cpu (iirc).
In addition, warp scramblers have a very specific range, require a target lock, and use capacitor energy. Warp Core Stabs have none of those restrictions.
I expect to see WCS on an industrial, a travel ship, or a barge and when somebody is simply moving a battleship through lowsec/0.0. I am also now seeing interceptors with at least 1 WCS! Cruisers with lows full of WCS shooting at a gate from a safe distance? Battleships sniping with 4 or more WCS?
WCS are overused. That's the best indicator that something needs changing -- not a nerf exactly, but at least a change.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 15:50:00 -
[10]
Hellspawn i appriciate the fact that you took the time to respond however none of those comments have been hijacks. if you took the time to read the OP's posts (mine) you would see im asking them to make comments exactly like these.
Thanks everyone for the input. I sorta see why people would throw so much hostility twords them however this discussion has just further cemented my opinion that people who hate them only dislike them becuase they didnt get to kill the thing they wanted.. Boo Hoo. Carebear mantra #1 "If my drones cant kill it, RUN!". I dont see whats wrong with running, *shrug*. I guess most people dislike people who run mainly because they deem THAT kind of behavior inappropreate but then suddently all they do is just fine.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:03:00 -
[11]
Whats wrong with stabs being a defensive module? There are alot of other defensive modules in the game, for example damps, td's, ecm AND eccm. And all the tanking mods. You have hardners which reduce damage, just see stabs as warp scrambling hardners, and everything is fine ;).
The problem is people hate when enemy ships escapes more than anything.
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Selim
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:16:00 -
[12]
I think stabs are fine when only one or two are used, because there are valid reasons to use them in combat, but more than that... its ridiculous.
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Electric Cucumber
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:22:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Electric Cucumber on 26/02/2006 16:24:20
It's annoying to see ships with 8 low slots of WCS, but what can you do about it ? it's a module that is part of the game and there's nothing you can do about it. Just another thing in a game that most people will whine about like the CS players whine about snipers and in other games there is always something of the kind..
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Flaxita
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Posted - 2006.02.26 16:45:00 -
[14]
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
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Shaemell Buttleson
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Posted - 2006.02.26 17:04:00 -
[15]
Let people use them if they want to.
Don't use them if you don't want to.
The other day our camp moaned like hell because a Dominix got away from us after we put 5x-1 strength on him but tbh we'd have said he was a fool to have jumped in and got ganked.
The only thing that does irritate me is people who moan about others using them and then use stabs themselves.
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Zenst
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:00:00 -
[16]
Anything damage related - STACKING NERF
Warp core stabs - Stack away stack away :(.
I rest my case.
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Flaxita
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
Thats what you say. But other ppl say there is a tactic called Hit AND Run. Thats where stabs shine.
Originally by: Flaxita
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
And stabs have absolutely nothing to do with smack/flame in local 
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Yaro
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:08:00 -
[18]
It's nothing wrong using wcs on a pvp ship...when u know that there r a lot of hostiles...
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Flaxita
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Posted - 2006.02.26 19:10:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Breed Love
Originally by: Flaxita
sig. resolution penalty of 80% would make them balanced...
Fight OR Run.... you should choose b4.
Thats what you say. But other ppl say there is a tactic called Hit AND Run. Thats where stabs shine.
Originally by: Flaxita
and the thing about having to blob stab users and then to have them flame in local is extremly ridiculous and should be removed ASAP.
And stabs have absolutely nothing to do with smack/flame in local
hmmm never really saw it from that point of view with the hitn run...
the problem I see there is that a raven with 5 wcs i.e. is not gimped enough considering some1 else has to sacrifice 3-6 med slots for him to be able to hold some1 down...
hitnrun yes, but bigger penalty plz...
maybe no ability to warp scramble if there's a wcs?
i simply have a problem when trying to kill stab users who fight and then run when they see they'd loose and THEN if you get friends moan about beeing outnumbered in local...
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hired goon
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Posted - 2006.02.26 20:59:00 -
[20]
Listen up Garataus. You are a carebear and hate pirates, I understand that. But pirates are users of WCS, and some of the people that hate WCS the most are anti-pirates that would love to clear that gate-sniper for you.
However as it stands, sniping pirates love to fit thousands of WCS and be aligned constantly. Then they will sit at a safespot and smack you in local. This is all because of WCS.
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
-omg-
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Selim
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:07:00 -
[21]
Originally by: hired goon
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
sig-worthy
Originally by: hired goon
Imagine if you were having sex but the girl turned into Margaret Thatcher just as you were approaching climax. That's why we hate WCS.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:21:00 -
[22]
Hahaha, Thats awsome. No i see your point totally. The whole point of this was for a discussion about this in a straight way without all the name calling and screaming i see most of the time. My hats off to you all.
Hows this then. If they add stacking penalty to stabbs you realise they will add stacking penalty to the anti-stabs too right? Your back to square one then. And if disruptors are ok and stabs not... thats kind of hypocritical doncha think? Sure im a carebear but i really dont hate pirates at all. Ive been killed many a time but i alwase congradulate them. Their just doin their job after all, greif camping or not.
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Yezah
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:26:00 -
[23]
Lmao @ hired goon 
I think a stacking penalty would be good, to prevent WCSing to the extremes.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:28:00 -
[24]
So you agree that stacking penalties are good on stabs but not on scrams?
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Vaarmoth Malinigvious
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:37:00 -
[25]
Scrams have very limited range, and require cap for activation.
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Garataus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:40:00 -
[26]
Touche. How about a major nurph for stabs but then the creation of a more powerful "active stab" that requires cap? That would put it on an equil playing field with scrams and would help to lessen the "bs full of stabbs" problem. He cant maintain his precious tank with these bastards running in full.
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Liare
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Garataus
So you agree that stacking penalties are good on stabs but not on scrams?
"so and so" in my opinion.
scrams put up some rather "hefty" demands compared to stabs, range (two pointers can be countered by nosf) cap consumption, demands target lock and so forth.
i dont mind stabs myself in most situations, but i do mind those "certain" people who think flying a battleship with a full rack of stabs in the low slots make them "skilled" and when they do get wacked by a proper covert ops setup they feel justified in whining end on end on how unfair it is to use eight ships against their one.
i have seen a fair portion of kills disserpear due to stabs, and i dont mind that to be honest. but the sillyness gets too much when you meet Tech 1 frigates with two stabs on trying to PVP, or ravens/geddons with all stabs in the low slots.
_____________________________
Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people. |
Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:45:00 -
[28]
Only thing that bothers me about stab users is when they cry/smack we need to blob them to kill them.
We really don't need the blob to kill them, we just need it so we have enough points to stop the targets warping off which can be very annoying somtimes.
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Liare
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Garataus
Yea i definatly agree with the smack-talk but there isn't an enforceble way to remove it. Smacktalk is the only reason im a carebear for life :P i have 4 mil in combat skills. I just got tired of congradulating my enemies only to get my nose rubbed in it.
heh, im rating people's smacktalk on a 1-10 scale myself, and printing the more memorable ones.
but that is off topic.
_____________________________
Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people. |
Filan
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:54:00 -
[30]
before you go off wanting stabs made a high slot item remember that haulers only have two high slots. course thats exactly what the gate gankers want im sure, make it easier to lock down an indy.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bps, ty - Cortes |
Meridius
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Posted - 2006.02.26 21:58:00 -
[31]
I don't mind 1 or 2 stabs on solo pilots or stabbed up people who are fit to travel only (no combat). I hate stabs on pretty much anyone else.
Anything more then 3 makes me vomit.
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WE get EVERRYYWHHHEERREEEE!!1 - Imaran |
Wrayeth
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:08:00 -
[32]
Stabs on PvP ships are...lame. They're the no-risk option. It's for people who want to PvP without consequences, who don't have the ******* to accept risk. Frankly, the only combat ships I can really see them being valid on, possibly, are faction ships, which cost an arm and a leg.
For traveling and non-combat ships in general, however, I have no problem with people using stabs. I expect to find that the indy I'm trying to kill has stabs, and that's perfectly okay.
-Wrayeth
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:21:00 -
[33]
Once camping in a 0.0 pipe we had 1 megathron, 4 interceptors and 2 thorxes. We have a scout in the systems behind and ahead of us in the pipe. Our scouts report an incoming armageddon. We all get on the gate exept for the megathron. The hostile armageddon jumps through and we all open up on him. We had 6 points of scramble on him but he had 7 frig guns, a nos and 6 or more stabs. He kills 1 of the ceptors then runs to a safespot and smacks about how godly he is for 20 minutes before logging.
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Ralus
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Posted - 2006.02.26 22:37:00 -
[34]
if the general consesus is that its ok for people to add 1 or 2 stabs then why don't you add a stacking penalty that increases cpu use for each stab fitted, that way even if you did fit more than 2 stabs you would gimp your setup far far worse than just the loss of 1 low slot with the crippiling loss of cpu.
Would have minimal effect on haulers either cos they've got huge amounts of cpu
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Turia
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Posted - 2006.02.26 23:11:00 -
[35]
You know, I don't fly with stabilizers. I don't have the low slots to waste on non-combat ships, and as for my combat ships, they're an utter freaking waste.
If I'm engaged, one of two things is happening: Either my opponent is summarily having their arse handed to them on a shiny platter (*waves to all the solo/duo inty pilots*) or stabilizers ain't helping me anyhow (*waves to the wolfpacks of 4+ intys*).
But god, the stupidity quotient out there is reaching an all-time high. "OMG STAB BOO HOO  "
You can take the stabs from carebears when you take the armor/shield repairers off of everyone else. Why, itssounfairomgmylaserscantbreaksomeguystankomgnoriskpvp 
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TheSoul
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Posted - 2006.02.26 23:29:00 -
[36]
WCS became a problem when people started fitting them on their pvp setups.
All they need is a Rate of fire nerf for guns/missles/drones/nos. This way you fit wcs, you are gimped in pvp, yet if you want to travel you can do so just as you can now.
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Ralus
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Posted - 2006.02.27 01:16:00 -
[37]
lol Turia your sig actually made me jump there, hehe there was me thinging a big of late night forum whoring in the dark before bed would be relaxing
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Lord Spidey
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Posted - 2006.02.27 01:23:00 -
[38]
After facing a Sac with 2 stabs and a Thorax with 4 stabs I am disgusted with them. I mean what good is sacrificing 2 of my mid slots on my ferox if they can still warp away?
P.S. Facing a Sac/Thorax/Maller at the same time in my ferox and the Sac still has stabs disgusts me
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Thercon Jair
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Posted - 2006.02.27 03:32:00 -
[39]
I think the main problem is the new stacking nerf for the damage mods. I constantly run into gankers/snipers who try to kill my ship, I usually manage to get away and when I finally, after many warp outs and ins and 1000 wreckings, end up on top of them and scramble them they just warp away because they have stabs.
Before the stacking nerf people fitted as many dmg-mods as they could, now they fit 3 of them and have 3-5 slots left. What can you do? Just fit WCS, more damage mods doesn't make sense, so just make my sniper invincible. There's also the people who fit 3 dmg mods, 3 tracking enhancers and fill the remaining slots with WCSs.
It's really hard to kill them as you also have to get all ships at the same time on top of the sniper, and if he's prealigned you're never going to catch him.
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Survivor X
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Posted - 2006.02.27 03:46:00 -
[40]
Much of the hate for stabs comes from PVPers. Not pirates. I like it how it is for pirates. For PVPers? I thought about hi-slot WCSes as an alternative, but then somebody pointed out haulers only have 1-2 hi slots. So, meh. What it should have is a cap/damage/defence penalty. Like 75% shield/armor reduction, or somesuch. Eliminates possibility of PVPers fitting 8 stabs. But it still leaves the possibility of you carebears with WCSes being viable.
Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose. |
Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.27 05:05:00 -
[41]
Stabs nerf your setup already. And they are combat mods. No further nerfing is needed.
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Bazman
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Posted - 2006.02.27 05:50:00 -
[42]
WCS should be deleted from the game. We just need a dev willing to go into the database and press "DEL"
You don't know frustration until you're attacked by an enemy Enyo which you start to school only to have it warp off with +2 on it. I mean, ARRRRGGGGHHHHH
-----
Hi TomB! All out Do or Die Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. |
AcheLone
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Posted - 2006.02.27 05:52:00 -
[43]
well my raven have 2 wcs fitted and do occasionally pvp if there's hostile in local(not always). well the reason is to remove the possibility of warp jamming by one ship(which most annoying interceptor). will you all hate me for it?
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Breed Love
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Posted - 2006.02.27 05:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bazman
WCS should be deleted from the game. We just need a dev willing to go into the database and press "DEL"
You don't know frustration until you're attacked by an enemy Enyo which you start to school only to have it warp off with +2 on it. I mean, ARRRRGGGGHHHHH
Been there.. But if that happens you can be calm knowing his setup is so gimped, that he can be pwned by a punisher.. Enemies want to annoy you, and you being frustrated means that they've been successful. Don't let this happen .
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Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.02.27 06:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Lord Spidey
After facing a Sac with 2 stabs and a Thorax with 4 stabs I am disgusted with them. I mean what good is sacrificing 2 of my mid slots on my ferox if they can still warp away?
P.S. Facing a Sac/Thorax/Maller at the same time in my ferox and the Sac still has stabs disgusts me
Whiner.
Seriously though, when a sniper can sit 100km away, always aligned and stabbed to hell its impossible to get them. Not to mention that it completely removes the element of solo pvp when your foe can warp away as soon as he starts to lose.
-|-
Join LFC, become someone, become family. |
Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.02.27 06:17:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Bazman
WCS should be deleted from the game. We just need a dev willing to go into the database and press "DEL"
You don't know frustration until you're attacked by an enemy Enyo which you start to school only to have it warp off with +2 on it. I mean, ARRRRGGGGHHHHH
2-3 stabs on an enyo.. (don't think you can fit more than that without using civilian guns) is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.
-|-
Join LFC, become someone, become family. |
Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.27 07:17:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Zysco on 27/02/2006 07:17:29
Stabs are 4tw.
On many ships there is no reason not to fit them.
If you can't beat them, join them.
All combat I now go into assuming that the enemy has 2 stabs.
Learn to ram,****s.
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Liare
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Posted - 2006.02.27 08:24:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kyguard
2-3 stabs on an enyo.. (don't think you can fit more than that without using civilian guns) is the most pathetic thing I've ever seen.
not quite as pathetic as a punisher with two stabs in my opinion, in the case of the enyo there is atleast a semi legitimate reason behind it.
_____________________________
Ex-Coretech, We still shoot people. |
Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2006.02.27 09:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Wrayeth
They're the no-risk option. It's for people who want to PvP without consequences, who don't have the testicular fortitude to accept risk.
Hum... do you fit a tank in your ships? Do you fit EW as jammers and tracking disruptors?
Aren't all of the above modules that allow you to avoid consequences, aka your ship going boom?
Quote:
Frankly, the only combat ships I can really see them being valid on, possibly, are faction ships, which cost an arm and a leg.
How do you define "an arm and a leg"? It is ok to fit them in a 2 billion isk ship if you have 5 billions in your wallet? What about a 20 million ship if you have 10 millions in your wallet?
(If you are thinking to play the "dont fly what you cannot afford to lose" card... isn't that lacking testicular fortitude?)
Don't get me wrong: I am not saying that, all things considered, WCS should not be made active modules with cap consumption, and/or added stacking penalties, and/or higher fitting requirements. I am not able to comment on that, so I'll leave it at that.
But what I AM saying is:
a) We are not talking about a specific ship that you may not be able to fly, or a module for a certain class of ship; it is a module everybody can use.
b) They have a counter (warp scramblers).
So if your enemies' strategies, of use of the module, prove to be superior to you, either use the module in smart ways yourself, fit the counter-module, or combination of them two.
For traveling and non-combat ships in general, however, I have no problem with people using stabs. I expect to find that the indy I'm trying to kill has stabs, and that's perfectly okay.
Barriers - an EVE novel |
Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2006.02.27 09:27:00 -
[50]
(irony)
WCS are the I-Win button!
- they make you able to flee without losing your ship, so you win by virtue of not losing (and in addition you get the option to smack)
- if outnumbered by enough people to stop you, you win by being able to complain about being unfairly blobbed
- they allow pirate hunters to legitimize blobbing, so they win too
Seriously, everyone wins simply because they are there! Why remove such a useful item?
(/irony)
Seriously, I think fitting WCS on a combat ship is going into the battle with the notion of "I'm going to lose anyway, so why even try?". WCS are in game, so we have to deal with them. I just don't have much respect for people who use them on combat ships.
Second, I think pirates who snipe at industrials from a spot outside of sentry range have no right to complain about being blobbed. If they want a fair fight, attach the industrial on even grounds  .
Last, I'm still laughing about the Thatcher post 
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:03:00 -
[51]
WCS... cant live with them, cant live without them.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
hired goon
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:26:00 -
[52]
Stop your pointless musing, foolish fools! The best idea for WCS-replacement is a system developed by my arch-nemesis j0sephine.
I don't currently have the link, but if anyone does please post it in this topic.
-omg-
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 10:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Zysco
Edited by: Zysco on 27/02/2006 07:17:29
Stabs are 4tw.
On many ships there is no reason not to fit them.
If you can't beat them, join them.
All combat I now go into assuming that the enemy has 2 stabs.
Learn to ram,****s.
Theta9 is offering lessons
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc
PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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x Misako
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:03:00 -
[54]
Hehe, the Thatcher post had me in stiches. Anyhow, I think the biggest problem with stabs is that they are a powerful tool consistently used by people with mindsets crapped up to the point where their existence is found abhorrent by any logically reasoning players.
An example: I was having some fun with my Rupture around Jan and here jumps in a Deimos. I think - what the hell, whatever, I can beat a Thorax, I can try a Deimos, I wonder how his duper tank is gonna take to my EMP. The guy charges at me, I scram -2, do the usual stuff - halfway into my clips the guys sports a sweet smoke from his ass and WARPS AWAY. Judging by the way he went down, I seriously doubt he had anything in his lows besides the med rep and the stabs.
It's that kind of idiocy that generates the hate - people like these just waste everyone's time and the stabs only help them do so, which causes frustration. And lots of it. There are times in <0.4 when you feel as if 50% of all the players were hardcore 30yr-old BDSM'ers who never had the balls to tell their girls about their little secret and now they feel so unfulfilled they just have to take it out on someone. Damn, I actually even stopped responding to people asking me "hey, you're like a one-anna-half year old char, come and help us kill that sniper", because there's no point, he's going to be stabbed to hell, so I tell all the beginners to read up on bookmarks and leave them 10 free copies of the system on ESC, because there's just no point in fighting whatsoever.
And there are zillions of these examples - stabbed gate camps in 0.0 that smack traders and miners for wcs'ing their barges and indys, stabbed gate camps that SS when you call for friends to have a nice 3 on 3 (and smack you in local), then you have stabbed NPC'ers in apocs that run from BS spawns (AND YOU) because of that, stabbed jammers that can't break your tank and smack you for calling in friends (which can take a LOT of time sometimes). Ah, Jesus, all Stab users should have to pass psychological tests first, this way we'd have stabbed friendly carebears, miners, travellers and mildly (1-2) stabbed 0.0 ratters and that would be it:). Gee, you see? Stupid stabs made me write all that pointless stuff, which is mostly repetition of others' opinions anyway.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:44:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Zysco
If you can't beat them, join them.
Sad but true..
Anyone up for some man love? 
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:46:00 -
[56]
The only problem with stabs is the lack of 3 point scramblers, and maybe stacking beyond 3-5 points of stab. They make a valid and sensible defense against 15k+ orbitters, but the reward of getting within the fairly lethal 7.5k range of a larger ship is just too small atm (unless you have 2 scrams fitted).
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:51:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes
I don't mind a change to WCS, but it should be chance based, like Jamming is now.
they nearly did, but the problem was basically there was a chance that 1 scrambler could keep someone in place forever, and also a chance that 100 scramblers would never keep someone in place. Also, the system that was tested involved racial scramblers and other crap like that.
Just put dmg penalties on ships with stabs, e.g. weapons/targetting/whatever range reduction, tracking penalties, etc.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:53:00 -
[58]
I still say make them a mid-slot remote module that gives +1 or +2 to the targeted ship in return for you getting -1 or -2.
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc
PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:56:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sarmaul
I still say make them a mid-slot remote module that gives +1 or +2 to the targeted ship in return for you getting -1 or -2.
Haulers will be imbalanced.
Caldari will be gimped. Better keep it as it is, slotwise but changed their penalties.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 11:58:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Sarmaul
I still say make them a mid-slot remote module that gives +1 or +2 to the targeted ship in return for you getting -1 or -2.
Haulers will be imbalanced.
Caldari will be gimped. Better keep it as it is, slotwise but changed their penalties.
it would force haulers to actually have an escrot, and scorps would be the best remote stabbing ship in the game :)
Originally by: Zzazzt
Originally by: thoth foc
PA doesnt stand for anything..
Punchbag Alliance...
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:00:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sarmaul
it would force haulers to actually have an escrot, and scorps would be the best remote stabbing ship in the game :)
Hmmmm... dont think it will work well.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Jaketh Ivanes
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:15:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Sarmaul
they nearly did, but the problem was basically there was a chance that 1 scrambler could keep someone in place forever, and also a chance that 100 scramblers would never keep someone in place.
Just like jammers do now, or did when i tested a long time ago 
Jammed a crusader with a 4 str scrambler once, then 20 sc later, 24 scrambling strength couldn't touch him. I were using multi and racial, both amarr and other races.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:25:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Caldari will be gimped.
How so?
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
zincol
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:31:00 -
[64]
WCS should use HIGH fitting requirements.
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Dray
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:34:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Dray on 27/02/2006 12:34:45
Damage/tracking penalty sounds like the way forward to me, or give them high req's and adjust ship bonus for fitting so a bs gets caned for fitting but an industrial dosent.
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Susa Ou
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:42:00 -
[66]
I think its fine as it is, if they want to run, they can. . .and you will win the next time too.
Watching a big boom is nice, but having someone run feels good too.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:43:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Susa Ou
Watching a big boom is nice, but having someone run feels good too.
NO IT DOES NOT
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Rodge
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Posted - 2006.02.27 12:53:00 -
[68]
Just give them a damage penalty, that incremements the more you fit. Have it so it stacks with damage mods, and these penalties are applied first.
1 stab = -5% damage
2 stabs = -10% damage (so 2 stabs are still viable on a combat setup)
3 stabs = -20% damage
4 stabs = -45% damage
5 stabs = -65% damage
6 stabs = -80% damage
7 stabs = -90% damage
This way everyone with a travel setup is still fine. You're only travelling, why care about your damage output. Indies don't care about what damage they do, so no change for them. Ships with 2 stabs have a slight penalty, but a ship with 4 or more stabs is seriously penalised offensively.
[ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
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FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:27:00 -
[69]
Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 27/02/2006 13:28:37
Edit.
The point is, it also has to cover people doing a runner for a legitimate reason.
Consider your sig tainted, and all your alcohol stolen - Wrangler
Beer=Beer+3 |
Fredbob
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:36:00 -
[70]
Fight OR flight.
Not fight->ArghI'mlosing->flight 
___________
~Fredbob~
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Lord WarATron
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:51:00 -
[71]
I have Said it once, and I will say it again.
As long as gatecamps exist, people will need WCS. If gate 2 gate travel was 100% safe, then the case can be made for NO WCS. It would mean piracy would be at belts, the pirates would find more victims who decide to mine at those belts, and it would also mean pirates would have to use that.... thing called a scanner.
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
FREE |
Filan
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:53:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
The only problem with stabs is the lack of 3 point scramblers, and maybe stacking beyond 3-5 points of stab. They make a valid and sensible defense against 15k+ orbitters, but the reward of getting within the fairly lethal 7.5k range of a larger ship is just too small atm (unless you have 2 scrams fitted).
cant have 3point scrams without 3point WCS or else someone could have an iwin button against all indusrials. remember WCS arent just for battleships and a nerf to WCS stacking would hurt the ships they are best used on.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bps, ty - Cortes |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 13:55:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Caldari will be gimped.
How so?
Cant fit mid slots with WCS.
Current system, almost all BS can fit low-slots with goodies and WCS.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Necroth
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:02:00 -
[74]
stabs are for noobs, you can fit smart bombs, ecmburst, ecm jammers etc..
go pvp babies, try to kill me with your stabs, u'll have some trouble, be sure of it
stabs are good in low slots because damage mods are fitted in low slots also
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Necroth |
DoMxj
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:07:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Kery Nysell
People hate stabs because they want to kill other people ... and when their target don't want to get killed, it's cowardice, of course ...
Making the stabs high slot items would only make the problem worse : right now, you have to choose between armor tank, damage mods or stabs ... in high slots, we would see armor tank or damage mods AND stabs on all those ships that have an "utility" high slot or that can spare a turret/launcher or two ...
I dont care aboput wcs they are part of the game so live with IT
I desagree with u. The issue is not 1 WCS on a ship the issue is stacking tehm 3or4 so moving them to high slots is a pretty good idea cause that would stop small ships from fitting them which is annoying and will seriously stop people from stacking them since they will be left with no weapons.
Again i dont care if things change but if they do moving them up to high is a interesteing idea.
Cause care or not is annoying when there is a bs pilot with full dmg setup and 4 or 5 WCS on
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Cant fit mid slots with WCS.
Current system, almost all BS can fit low-slots with goodies and WCS.
Exactly. Fitting them is not much of a sacrifice.
You only really need 4 mids for a good shield tank. After that, you can choose between scrambler, webber, ecm and/or stabs.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:14:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Caldari will be gimped.
How so?
Cant fit mid slots with WCS.
Current system, almost all BS can fit low-slots with goodies and WCS.
I said make them *remote* modules :)
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DeadRow
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:15:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Cant fit mid slots with WCS.
Current system, almost all BS can fit low-slots with goodies and WCS.
Exactly. Fitting them is not much of a sacrifice.
You only really need 4 mids for a good shield tank. After that, you can choose between scrambler, webber, ecm and/or stabs.
Yer but making them a med slot will do nothing tbh, instead of having an 8stabed geddon ull hav an 8 stabbed scorp. changin them to high slots might be better, as you HAV to choose between weapons or stabs, and most BS hav 1 spare slot for a stab ;)
Originally by: Eris Discordia
TAKE COVER, HIDE YOUR SIGNATURE
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:17:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Cant fit mid slots with WCS.
Current system, almost all BS can fit low-slots with goodies and WCS.
Exactly. Fitting them is not much of a sacrifice.
You only really need 4 mids for a good shield tank. After that, you can choose between scrambler, webber, ecm and/or stabs.
If you move to mid-slots, then other BSes will supercede Ravens. I think better keep them as they are, and impose dmg penalties. That way, we can still keep haulers as they are. No need to fix something that is not broken (i.e. slots).
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 14:31:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Ras Blumin on 27/02/2006 14:31:12
Originally by: DeadRow
Yer but making them a med slot will do nothing tbh, instead of having an 8stabed geddon ull hav an 8 stabbed scorp. changin them to high slots might be better, as you HAV to choose between weapons or stabs, and most BS hav 1 spare slot for a stab ;)
Yeah, I know it isn't perfect, but tbh, I don't really fear a lone scorp with nothing but stabs in mids ;) .. And most ships simply doesn't have the mids to "support" more than 1 stab, aside from battleships.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
If you move to mid-slots, then other BSes will supercede Ravens.
So? And a raven will still be able to tank+gank+2 stabs, something that most other battleships won't be able to while still having a decent setup.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
That way, we can still keep haulers as they are.
I don't know what you mean by that exactly. Moving stabs to mids would boost travel setups in general, which would include haulers. It will make haulers a ***** to catch tho.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Acuna Traos
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:56:00 -
[81]
I've only skimmed threw the posts, but no one seems to have mentioned that back at the beginning of eve stabs were mid slot and used cap. For their own reasons ccp changed it to lo slot and no cap usage.
In my opinion they should still use cap. This way you would have to at least remember to turn the damn thing on
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.02.27 15:58:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Ras Blumin
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
If you move to mid-slots, then other BSes will supercede Ravens.
So? And a raven will still be able to tank+gank+2 stabs, something that most other battleships won't be able to while still having a decent setup.
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
That way, we can still keep haulers as they are.
I don't know what you mean by that exactly. Moving stabs to mids would boost travel setups in general, which would include haulers. It will make haulers a ***** to catch tho.
Other BSes also can fit stabs and have a decent setup for PvP. Example an Apoc with a decent shield tank, like you said, 4 med slots. 3 Heat sinks T2, 4 WCS is also scary.
Haulers cant tank anymore, unless they armour tank which is not really a good option, I think.
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RecruitMe@NOINT! |
Agenor Deteis
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:21:00 -
[83]
the DEVs said long ago they won't change WCS to another slot, so don't argue about it. |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:32:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Filan
Originally by: Ernest Graefenberg
The only problem with stabs is the lack of 3 point scramblers, and maybe stacking beyond 3-5 points of stab. They make a valid and sensible defense against 15k+ orbitters, but the reward of getting within the fairly lethal 7.5k range of a larger ship is just too small atm (unless you have 2 scrams fitted).
cant have 3point scrams without 3point WCS or else someone could have an iwin button against all indusrials. remember WCS arent just for battleships and a nerf to WCS stacking would hurt the ships they are best used on.
What the hell are you on about? If all someone wants to do is scramble your indy, then its already very easy to get 6-8 points on you with one or two ships tops. If you get caught by hostiles in your indy, alone, well you better die - you can't just get a huge freaking cookie for not scouting and playing dumb.
The only thing 3 point scram changes is it moves up the minimum for a tank and gank setup from 2 or 4 lows sacrificied to 3 or 6 lows, and that you need a max of 3 scramblers for any one target.
And the ships that benefit most from stabs are called battleships, not industrials.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.27 16:57:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Zysco on 27/02/2006 16:58:58
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Zysco
Edited by: Zysco on 27/02/2006 07:17:29
Stabs are 4tw.
On many ships there is no reason not to fit them.
If you can't beat them, join them.
All combat I now go into assuming that the enemy has 2 stabs.
Learn to ram,****s.
Theta9 is offering lessons
And? Didn't I just say stabs are 4tw? If you thought that was sarcasm you were wrong. I'm not embarrassed to say i use stabs like some of the "uberleet" pvpers who try to flame people for it, yet have never in their lives pvped with less than 10 other gangmates.
Hell if i didnt have stabs on my domi i'd have prolly lost it 20 times by now to RIP alone and ED's damn "have a cruiser as bait then drop a cyno and warp in my carrier" trick.
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Ras Blumin
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:01:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Other BSes also can fit stabs and have a decent setup for PvP. Example an Apoc with a decent shield tank, like you said, 4 med slots. 3 Heat sinks T2, 4 WCS is also scary.
Well, if stabs were moved to mids, an Apoc couldn't really have a shield tank + stabs ;) .. But you are actually right, both the tempest and apoc can have about the same tankability + amount of dmg mods if you look at the mods alone (ie.not adding in the fact that the tempest tanks the worst and such).. The mega's (=blasters) just fubared tho  ..
So; All working tier 2 bs would be able to fit most t2 damaging weapons + decent tank + 2 stabs + 2-3 dmg mods if stabs were moved to mids, and blasters are fubared.
Dno about haulers, I've never thought about tanking them .. I'd fill the mids with stabs and lows with nanos.
A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02 |
Tredge
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Posted - 2006.02.27 17:46:00 -
[87]
Why not just change the game dynamics instead of calling for changes to Stabs?
Keep Stabs as is, a defensive option for those that really want to avoid gate ganks and PVP.....but introduce Encounter Locking such that if someone aggresses they can't just jump out when things don't go as planned.
Force those that start somthing to finish it! This would improve the PVP experience and introduce a little more risk to griefers.
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Niki Silver
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Posted - 2006.02.27 18:14:00 -
[88]
My two bits: If you really don't want someone to get away, use an interdictor and frigs with webbers.
Empire Pirate Response: But we can't use interdictors in Empire!
My response to empire pirates: Your only purpose in life it to make the lives of others miserable. Nobody cares about you anyway.
Ethereal Imperium [E-IMP] is recruiting!
Please visit our webpage for more information. |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.27 19:24:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Zysco
stuff
calm down mate, I was just trying to nick your claw setup (i.e. what's in those bastard 2 lows) and found that killmail. seemed appropriate :)
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.02.27 19:41:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Zysco
stuff
calm down mate, I was just trying to nick your claw setup (i.e. what's in those bastard 2 lows) and found that killmail. seemed appropriate :)
throw me a mail or convo
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.02.27 20:45:00 -
[91]
Edited by: LUKEC on 27/02/2006 20:45:28
nah, i won't be telling in public.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
GigaIndy
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Posted - 2006.02.27 20:58:00 -
[92]
Ravens/scorps with Stabs fitted really dont lose anything.
Makes pvpers cry.
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Constantine Arcanum
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:14:00 -
[93]
They completely undermine Amarr ships. They suck.
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:27:00 -
[94]
I don't have a problem with stabs. They are part of the game, if someone gets away from me with 4 scrams fitted, good one.
It gimps your setup, so who cares.
Probably the same people complaining about Nos and ecm.
-
           
You got pwnd by us too :P - Wrangler
lol - Imaran |
LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:43:00 -
[95]
Originally by: GigaIndy
Ravens/scorps with Stabs fitted really dont lose anything.
Makes pvpers cry.
Yeah it makes them suck on killboards. Anyway they won't warp away from any decent tackler. -1 scrambling is sooo 2004...
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
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