You claim that this change will improve small gangs. I tell you, it will not - small gangs need to be able to hold targets in place, and needing one of the few ships able to do that properly is NOT the answer.

the sky blotted out with them

These are more significant in small/microgangs because of the ability to hold targets (eg. Logi) on field and allow small gangs to work their way up to an equal DPS distribution. The same does not apply to large gangs with plenty of webs, scram, and tackle ALREADY.

Minmatar recons have bonuses to both forms of ewar, and similar ranges on both when fit appropriately.

"Hmmm yes I will fit target painters on my pvp rapier rather than webs" said no one ever

raper

Exactly. Range control *is* life. That's why you fit a scram, and neut them out. Or why you damp them past your scram range and kite. Or why you can jam them and prevent them from targeting you in any way, regardless of range. I'd say this applies to most ship classes...

Either way, I never claimed to be better than you at PvP. I claimed that you should PvP more - a different thing - so you see how people use neuts in PvP.

Either way, you keep on changing the subject.
You originally mentioned that webs are the most OP EWAR out there. I'm pretty sure most people would disagree. Range-bonused webs? Maybe. But you weren't even referring to those.

I'm pretty sure eliminating the opponent's ability to target you in the first place, or activate any tackle on you whatsoever, will win more fights than pure range control. What's range control if you can't even shoot? Talk about lack of reason.

My one concern is keeping the Serpentis lineup both viable and vaguely interesting. While Blood ships can all match the Bhaalgorn and get web range instead of strength, the Serpentis unique selling point is the 90% web. Without it they're basically weak gallente ships and the raw stats would definitely need buffing (not overly, but some) to keep them competitive.

no man ... Geddon was stripped from lasers . Now BR ships too ? I cannot let this happen. Especially for Drones. We got Rattle, Dominix, Dominx Navy, Geddon, Nestor(yes now too) ... and you want another Drone Bhaal :<<<<. That would be hella sad.

Show some love to lasers.

What i think is that there should be reason to put lasers on BR ships instead of neuts ... my idea is to increase laser bonus to 150% role bonus. No it will not be op. Damage of all BR ships is super pathethic. With that buff it will be just doable.

And if we speak about lasers, do same to Sansha ships - and remove 2nd damage bonus with something CREATIVE (not yet another damage bonus) like shield hp bonus per level (not creative but very uncommon ... or ignores 7,5% per level em/thermal resist of target (ignores only for your energy turrets).

Basically Sansha needs something THAT MAKES THEM UNIQUE - not just looks. Right now they are damage + damage + damage(in form of tracking). No utility, no tankyness bonus. hell even those damage bonuses are lazy ...

That's true, but a single Rapier with 3 webs can slow down a ship to a effectively similar speed the Vindicator can, from 4 times the distance. If the Vindicator had that bonus you could say it's OP. I'm out of here.

When it comes to the Vindicators hitting some ab frigs. Well, it's made to be able to do that. You expect 2x Vindicators worth around 4-5 bill isk (with their setups included) to not hit a frig?

As for scan res damps, they do sweet **** all if he targets first *or* he gets mostly targeted before the damps hit. The only exception to this is if you're using them in tandem with ECM, but how many ships (and pilots) should equal a single Vindicator?

No, the Vindicator will be useless if it can't slow down the ships so much that it WONT be dangerous for those who are webbed by the Vindicator. It SHOULD be extremely dangerous to be webbed by the Vindicator. That's the whole point with the ship.

A 75% web strength is something everyone is going to laugh at as alot of ships can gets under the Vindicator's tracking really easily then. The point with the Vindicator is that no ships should have it easy to get under the Vindicator's tracking and webbing, not even frigs.

And this is something you simply doesn't understand, because like i said, you have no idea what the Vindicator is and what it's supposed to do.

For normal ships yes, not for ships with special abilities.

Read my edited reply over.

By this logic, cruisers shouldn't be able to destroy frigates, and Battlecruisers shouldn't be able to destroy cruisers or frigates, and battleships shouldn't be able to destroy battlecruisers, cruisers, or frigates. I see a flaw in your logic....

A ship fit according to it's bonuses to perform in a specific role is just that.

Any non-Minmatar T1 EWAR frigate for 2 million ISK can completely disable the Vindicator. You could damp it to the point where it can't target beyond a couple kilometers at most, or where it takes too long to event target anything. You could tracking disrupt it to the point where it couldn't hit a dread, or beyond a couple hundred meters. You could simply jam it out.

Have you tried a Vindicator with 1x 90% web against a dual tracking disruptor Curse orbiting you at 200-300m?

And if a Curse is using an afterburner, it will normaly do 548 m/s (713 m/s with the AB overloaded). If the Vindicator webs it, that will do 54.8 m/s (71.3 m/s with the AB on the Curse overloaded) while orbiting you.

As the Curse most likely will have a scram fitted, your Vindicator can't use the MWD to close in on him even more. And my VIndicator does 140 m/s. When the Curse 60% webs me, my Vindicator will do 56 m/s.

So yes, the Curse can indeed control the distances here.

As much hilarious as complaining about the Vindicator because some dreads can hit some of the ships the Vindicator webs?

Now, lets move away from the Vindicator to the normal Megathron with 1x 60% web. How powefull is the Curse against a normal Megathron?

Ahh, there we go, it's gonna roll over the Megathron pretty hard in the same way as a Vindicator will roll over others ships pretty hard.

So, when a Curse can pretty much control the whole fight against other normal ships, then a Vindicator should be able to control a fight against others as much as a Curse can do. Curse is a spacial ship with it's advantages over other ships in the same way as the Vindicator is spacial and have it's own advangaes other battleships doesn't have.

Yeah, if you are gonna use a dreads as an argument to balance a Vindicator, then i'm for sure gonna bring in a Curse as an argument on how things should be.

I don't like to fight against a Curse when i'm in a Megathron, because i know i will lose that fight. It's 98% guaranteed that i will lose. Should i then just cry to CCP that they should remove the tracking bonuses on the Curse because it wont let me survive the Curse?

It will be the same, you are crying because once you are webbed by the Vindicator, the chance of getting out is very low. It's the same case with the Curse. Once the Curse are close to you, there is no way that a normal battleship with guns are going to win against it.

But i don't whine about it as using tracking disrupting is a way of fighting in the same way as slowing your ship down ALOT is another type of fighting. You just have to live with it.

Answer me this.

Before this topic was made, there didn't exist a single topic about OMGOMGOMG 90% webs on the Vindicator is to strong. Why did this so suddenly get an issue after this topic was made?

Ahh that's right, you can just use the benefits of crying to CCP to nerf the webs on the Vindicator now as they are watching this topic because you are totally incapable of using your brain on how to counter 90% webs and how to fight a Vindicator.

The fact that no one have complained about this before this topic says that the 90% webs on the Vindicator are fine.

It's just better to cry to CCP then so we all can see EVE Online getting transformed into what's called Drake Online (what it will be in the end).