Deal with it. Extortion is a valid game mechanic.

A mission runner runs missions and uses the ISK he gets from bounties to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A miner mines and uses the ISK he gets from selling minerals to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.
A wardeccer wardecs people and uses the ISK he gets from ransoms to buy PLEX to donate to PFG.

I don't see any difference here. Or do you want to stop other people from donating their honestly obtained ISK for the good cause too?

Considering the Red cross will use 90% of the money people donate just to pay the exorbitant salaries of their executives... that itself should get you a way bitter taste than anything related to wars. I myself would never donate a single penny to red cross. I just use this money to help smaller entities close by that I can see exactly how they use the money while operatign under the natinal jurisdiction and strictly forbidden to use the money for anything other than direct help.

Blackmailing people into doing stuff that they wouldn't do otherwise in the RL world is a criminal offence.

Perhaps their victims are more likely to cough up when they are donating to a good cause, thus raising a bit of extra money for said good cause, that wouldn't have been available otherwise?

I'm sure none of the rl victims will mind that their food and shelter were paid for in part due to the actions of *ebil piwates* in a video game.

And it is, of course, blackmail. Do x or you will suffer negative consequences y is just what blackmail is.

No it isn't lol. If that were the case, pretty much everything in the world is blackmail.

What's sad is that you would place hoarding your internet space riches above the well-being of others in real life.
If this is causing you sleepless nights, you may need to recalibrate your personal scale of atrocities..
"all means" indeed.. lmao.

If you're not inclined to pay, don't.

It's ok to ransom people in eve.
You are imposing what you think is good on others by denying this simple fact.

Imagine the outrage if the Red Cross would find out some of the money they received was earned by hurting peaceful rocks in a spaceship computer gameGǪ

To stay on topic, we have on average 50 new wardecs every week, we negotiate surrender for isk on a daily basis and we sent out the mail in the OP to only a select few corps.

In other words, we know who you areGǪ If you arenGÇÖt the CEO of your corp, I suggest you talk to him first before drama posting nonsense.
If you arenGÇÖt who we think you are than good job on taking things out of context and blowing them up well beyond any form of proportion.

Anyhow, as said before, we do other things for this particular charity in EVE employing our normal gameplay, we also are invested in other charities in and out of EVE.

Fly safe

D.

I won't go through the trouble of quantifying my statements to account for readers who lack common sense.
If you feel your examples are arguably on the same level as the Marmite Plex for Good drive, I pity you.

Cool, a definition from wikipedia. Here's a definition from the dictionary;

black-+mail
n.
1.
a. Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
b. Something of value extorted in this manner.

Uh-huh.

Ayn Rand is spinning in her grave.

OP,

Did you receive the mail yourself? (NO!)
Did you receive the mails that were sent beforehand? (NO)

What are you complaining about than?
If the original receiver of said mail would speak up with his/her main we'd have a basis for a discussion.
I take it he/she won't however, since we talked about it before and after the sending of said mail.

Sorry I can't say many concrete things because THAT would be embarassing for some.

D.

Yes it is

Sucks for you that your NPC corp doesn't offer you any exitement of the player created kind.
I take it that's why you try to dump on people actually making effort to create some content and background for others to enjoy.

D.

I apologize, when coming down to your level I felt less secure and therefor reacted with childish remarks to your well thought out statements.

D.

Obmud my friend, I am honestly taken aback that you would find offense in such a selfless act as the Marmites are engaged in. Not only are they trying to help people who are truthfully in the direst of need. But they are simply trying to spread that good will around the galaxy.
That your so overwhelmed with the spirit of Scrooge is apparent. I only hope this will be one of the spirits of Christmas visited upon you this night. For you should find less offense at such a selfless act, and feel much more warm and fuzzy that someone has the kahunas to bring unwilling participants and willing alike into the fold. Giving them the opportunity nay privilege to help a nation torn by Natural Disaster.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. (your prejudice is showing)

Fly True, Strike Sure, and Keep Up!

Stationmonkey

Methinks you missed the very apparent point in his original comment!
I also would like to ask the OP how much you have personally donated to the relief fund?

You also have missed the point in that there is no extortion going on here only options in surrendering to a wardec as I read it.
Option 1, pay a surrender fee. which is part of the mechanic
Option 2, pay a plex which will be donated to the relief fund and is also only done because of the blackmailing. Which is a way of helping people caught up in a very bad disater.

So what is your real purpose here as it certainly is not just about Marmites raising isk for a worthy relief fund, I believe you have alterior motives in bringing this.

You can buy PLEX with in game currency....If someone chooses to do it with Real world money thats their choice. Therefore Valid game mechanic.

What would be the difference if they just wardecced you without the message? This sentence alone should end this mofoing thread of stupidity. I hope Marmite or whoever they are keep the plex that idiots give to them instead of fighting.. Pussies, a lot of you!

I broadly agree with what you are saying but think things are a little more complex in this particular limited circumstance. The problem is that this kind of action is not one that takes place entirely within the magic circle of the game because it turns on forcing someone to act in a way that is a) motivated by out of game considerations, and b) deliberately has an out of game effect. Because these ingame actions interface with the real world outside the game in this special case there is, I think, quite a strong case to be made that the special rules that apply within the magic circle have to be moderated to take account of the interaction with the real world outside the game.

It is a difficult question for the rather underdeveloped field of virtual ethics but there does seem to me to be a genuinely tricky issue here caused by the blurring of boundaries. In such a case I would be inclined to play it safe and to avoid any direct link between ingame coercion and donations to the RC both because there are difficult ethical questions around the issue and because even the perception of ethical difficulties could harm the image of the Plex drive in the minds of some players. Since there really seems to be no upside for the charity that comes from taking this approach (as ransoms can just be taken as normal and then donated to PFG without bringing it up in the exchange with the victim) and there might be a number of negative impacts, it seems best to err on the side of caution.

Actually, OP is just upset that marmite is making him feel bad for not paying the ransom. Using out-of-game events to make people feel guilty or uncomfortable in game is just going too far, damnit! (saracsm)

I've spoken with the GM Team regarding this, and the decision is quite simple.

Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic.

If this valid game mechanic is being used as a method of raising ISK for a good cause, then CCP will not intervene.

*snip*

5 per the first post
was not something I said. So I am guessing either someone just changed words around or this was from a convo after someone recived the mail.

Why not ask your friend for the mail I sent them? As for the misuse I am the only one who would have collected and touched the isk or plex so would have been easy for CCP to check. Yet no one paid so not hard to do the math. Granted I do not see much of a need to explain this to you or anyone. I have followed the rules and will keep doing so. The only 2 people I ever scamed in this game are real life friends. So all the war targets are safe seeing my RL friends are mostly perma war deced.

Anyone wanna be my real life friend? I need more perma war decs.

I have added my 2 isk on this thread 2 times. No mroe need for me to add to it. CCP knows where to find me if they have a question or think I did something wrong.

EDIT: Ranger 1 as I said before we even sent the mail to CCP nothing to hide.

This is your problem, if you agree or disagree its happening and going to happen. If we can raise money for a charity through a game to do a good thing, why not?
This is policed, BKM is the only one to touch the ISK and does alot for charities and runs 'Gaming for charity' aswell so can be fully trusted and even if you don't trust him, CCP has made it clear he would be banned.

I think personally complaining and crying about a war dec which intentions are to help charity is disrespectful and selfish. But I aint making a whole thread about it.

"Corporate extortion via demand for payment to cease hostilities is a valid game mechanic."

This seems pretty straightforward. There's no "good causes" clause.

There is no connection between the in game actions of a made up entity that blows up not real stuff and real life.


The ransom is theirs to decide. A PLEX is not a ridiculous asking price. Would it make you feel better if Marmite would ask for 600m, and then for every surrender they buy a PLEX and donate to PLEX for good? It's the same thing, without the middle man. Additionally, nobody is forcing anyone to pay a ransom for war surrender.


Personal experiences aside, I don't believe CCP is scheming to pull the wool over your eyes with this campaign. It's a charity event. While discussing the merits of the charity is certainly a worthwhile endeavor, again nobody is forcing you to donate to the campaign, and in fact, if you don't like how the campaign is run, the best thing to do would probably be to either not donate at all or donate to a charity that more appropriately fits your preferences.


People have done much worse in this game. If they donate even one PLEX to the campaign it would likely be worthwhile as literally nothing in Eve actually matters in real life, while the campaign is donating to an actual charity.

And CCP has specifically stated that they are fine with Marmite's contribution to that through violence, intimidation, and extortion.

So what are you still talking about?

Nice attitude for such a serious topic.





Correct




Yeah exaclty, because i had so much trouble with them during eve. Check my corp history the last time i was active in FW we had 0 interaction with them and before that i can't remember even hearing about them. And viziam is in an everlasting battle with the marmite because... oh yeah right. It's laughable i'm even replying to this, i don't give a crap from who this comes even if it was from my best friends, i got problems with the action not the message deliverer. Something alot of people in this topic clearly fail to distinguish, stupid personal attacks seem to be more fashionable than staying on topic.

On the contrary, your comment shows that if this isnt the case (which it isnt) you admit to having no ground in your whole argument. Thanks for that, i personally know the truth.




Hooray! We established that they think it's okay. No problem with that, i still don't agree. For some people what CCP thinks is not god's word. I'm still allowed to speak up, last time i checked this was an open forum.




While replying to your "ohiveseenitallboy" comments that might indeed be the case.



[Quote]You already vocalized your thought, and had your question answered. That's it, done.

And so New Eden has delivered another crushing blow to negative attitudes among those who want to prevent the progress of mankind. CCP, saviour of our future.

It's not too late to change your ways.

You should sig that, it will look good on you.

Unfortunately for you, this isn't a democracy. This is a dictatorship. And the people in charge just said that not only is it perfectly ok, but that there are no grey areas, it's not maybe ok, it's not kinda ok.

It is 100% ok. Perfectly acceptable in every way. And that means that you are wrong should you continue to disagree.

End of story. You don't get a mistrial, you don't get an appeal, and you don't get a second opinion.

Game over man, game over.

Persisting in believing what palpably isn't true is the god-given right of every free person. However, so is laughing at people who do so, and I am.



Oh look, here's another example! Wait, two! Actually CCP is "God's word" with respect to what is allowable in game, and this isn't an "open forum" (for one thing you have to be subscribed to EVE to post in it).

Listen man I realise it kind of hurts when you find out you're wrong, and I realise it's also very annoying when people just refuse to understand how right you would be if the world worked properly but persisting in believing in what just aint so will only make you a figure of fun. Whilst I like a laugh at someone else's expense as much as the next man, there's only so many times you can see someone walk into a french window whilst loudly proclaiming that "rock can't be invisible" before you start to feel a little sorry for him.

Well, it's not that it's difficult in and of itself.

It's just that making a whine thread and trying to fish for GM action against Marmite is much easier. It also has a greater chance of success than carebears flailing about like beached whales trying to fight against real players.

[quote=Obmud]

If you actually believe this you're an idiot, dude. You obviously don't actually know what a dictatorship is or what words mean.