EVE Search - Why high sec Exploration rewards are that horrible?

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Why high sec Exploration rewards are that horrible?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17632	Posted - 2013.12.05 18:42:00 - [1] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Ptraci wrote: High sec is basically a "starter area" that is very badly abused by some players who refuse to ever leave it. Basically, no it isn't. Basically, yes it is, because that was the design paradigm when exploration distribution was determined. Thus highsec gets the newbie-level exploration sites. This makes it very easy once you get your skills up, so what good stuff there is to find gets decimated quickly by over-skilled characters mass-completing everything in sight. It has nothing to do with how people play or what people spout about what others are supposedly spouting; it has to do with design history. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17633	Posted - 2013.12.05 19:11:00 - [2] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: No it isn't. The "design paradigm" revolves around the concept of risk vs. reward GÇªand the idea was that the newbie-level content was in highsec, and once you got better, you'd move to more difficult and more rewarding content in other areas. The risk in question wasn't so much from players GÇö since that was much the same no matter where you went GÇö but from the opposition in the sites and if you wanted something above newbie level, you'd have to go to the non-newbie-level areas of the game. That same design paradigm has survived to this day as far as exploration goes. So yes, yes it is. If you don't like that design, you should go back to 2003 and tell CCP so. Conversely, if you want it to be a risk-reward kind of thing that doesn't take assumed skill levels into consideration, then you could also tell them to reduce the rewards from those highsec sites since a lot has happened to (massively) reduce the risks involved. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17633	Posted - 2013.12.05 19:36:00 - [3] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: And this is now very different from the claim I originally addressed, which was "high sec is basically a starter area". Saying that it is the area for newbie-level content is not very different from saying that it's a starter area. After all, that's where the newbie-level content belongs. The concept you seem to have a hard time getting your head around is that, just because the basic design was abandoned fairly quickly, the content that was meant to fit into this deprecated design was kept around. That's why the skill requirements for both locating and completing this content are so low, and why you're not even allowed into some if you complicate matters too much. If it were a matter of risk, the dynamic would have looked very different (since the risk envelope and nature back then was vastly different to what it is now). They're a relic, and while you might not like what that relic represents, the basic idea is there and is obvious. And risk is not it. Quote: You could if you wanted to. My point is you don't have to. GÇªand that doesn't change the fact that it was designed as starter area content: to use with starter-level skills in starter-level ships. So yes, yes it is. You're probably putting too much normative and far too generalised a meaning into this deprecated design of a single content type. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17633	Posted - 2013.12.05 20:17:00 - [4] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: In fact it is very different. Claiming that hi sec is a "starter area abused by players who refuse to leave it" is very different from stating that starter systems are found in hi sec. GÇªwhich no-one has said. The former is entirely accurate in describing why the exploration sites have the distribution they have; the latter has nothing to do with the topic at hand so I don't even know why you bring it up. Quote: Bottom line is hi sec is I'll do that nasty evil thing I do and cut you off right there. You see what you said there? GÇ£IsGÇ¥? That's the problem: you're using the wrong tense. Highsec exploration is starter-level content because that's how the game was laid out. It didn't take long for this initial design to fail to pan out. Now people are pointing to this antique design as the explanation for why sites have a certain distribution, and their explanation is pretty spot on. You are contesting this based on how the game has developed since, skipping over the fact that the distribution hasn't really developed along with it, which was the point all along. Denying this truth because it's inconvenient or because you aren't able to separate present from past doesn't change the truth. It just makes you seem belligerent and prone to go chasing windmills. Now if you want to update the design and want to make it more a matter of risk vs. reward, then we can start talking about how we should nerf highsec exploration in its current form, but that's a slightly different topic. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17634	Posted - 2013.12.05 20:44:00 - [5] - Quote Malcanis wrote: The idea that hisec must be restricted to being a "newbie area" is bad and wrong and should be put in a bag and drowned like a litter of unwanted inbred puppies. Sure. But again, the point is the past as an explanation of what is, rather than the present as a reason for what should change. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: Better? No, because now it's either a bit self-contradictory or just plain inaccurate. And you understand why highsec is full of starter-level content, then? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17634	Posted - 2013.12.05 20:50:00 - [6] - Quote Gyozshil154 wrote: Weird Yes, it's quite weird that you quote that section since it does not mention anything about starter systems being found in highsec. Or, well, it's weird presuming that you were trying to provide some kind of counter to what I said since it doesn't really do that. If you were trying to do something else, it'sGÇª actually, still weird since then it's just some random quote with no connection or explanation for why it's being brought up. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17634	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:02:00 - [7] - Quote Gyozshil154 wrote: Perhaps I misunderstood what "GÇªwhich no-one has said." meant in the post I quoted above. Because if that was referring to the text in the post you quoted, then yes, someone has said that. I'm referring to the clause immediately preceding it about how starter systems are found in highsec. MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: This is fairly pointless. You have a tendency of denying your initial assertions or convoluting them with irrelevant responses to the point where you're no longer even defending your original assertion, but rather moving the goal posts around at will :\. GÇªand you have good examples of this? Or are you quitting because every time you try to back me into a corner, it turns out that you just imagined that corner? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17634	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:16:00 - [8] - Quote MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote: This is what you said: Tippia wrote: Saying that it is the area for newbie-level content is not very different from saying that it's a starter area. After all, that's where the newbie-level content belongs. GÇªwhich, again, says nothing about starter systems being in highsec or making any inferences from this fact. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17635	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:31:00 - [9] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: It's extremley fruistrating seeing this thread going into the old "high sec vs otherSec" areas. I opened this topic with one thought in mind and it was explortion rewards in high sec vs other high sec activities. GÇªand really, the answer to that is that exploration is stuck in a very old paradigm that guides its design, difficulty, and output. This makes it mostly mediocre, very easy, and severely over-fished. The baseline is low; the good stuff is squeezed out to the very last drop; everything is over-saturated. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17635	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:43:00 - [10] - Quote Nalelmir Ahashion wrote: @Tippia so basicly there is good reward and such on high sec but due to the sheer easyness of it those sites are farmed out quickly and in order to get those I need to catach them fast and before everyone else. right? Pretty much, yes. There are a few nuggets in there, but they're balanced along the other highsec exploration content to be accessible and solvable with very low skills. So these days, when both the average equipment and skill level is vastly higher than what they've been balanced for, they get popped almost as soon as they appear. With a bit of luck, you can find a backwater constellation that sees little traffic and where a few might collect over time, but what little population such system sees still has a nasty tendency to be explorers since they all know thisGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 17635	Posted - 2013.12.05 21:58:00 - [11] - Quote Cygnet Lythanea wrote: Once upon a time I remember seeing a picture explaining eve sec status. This one, probablyGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.