hardly a Saint.

Name one person on this planet who is "a saint".

RIP to an icon of equality who's contributions during his lifetime helped move humanity forward as a whole.

Technically, you can't still be on this planet (alive) and be a "saint".

Nelson Mandela suffered greatly, but not all who suffer are heros. Mostly he was just another violent communist, but that is why the press likes him so much.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is an icon of equality. Mandella, not so much.

I think this is one passing we should celebrate. Few men lived as full a life as Nelson Mandela. He fought long and suffered much to bring about a great change in the world. He died at 95, surrounded by his family. What more could one ask?

Tonight, I shall raise a glass in honor of Mr. Mandela. Rest in peace, sir. And thank you for all you have done. The world is a better place because you lived in it.

While this is indeed very sad, its a relief that he's out of his suffering. Apparently the last 6 months have seen him at a state that if it were me I'd have preferred to have the machines switched off and let me die. Without modern painkillers he was in quite a lot of difficulty from what I understand.

Technically, you can't still be on this planet (alive) and be a "saint".

Nelson Mandela suffered greatly, but not all who suffer are heros. Mostly he was just another violent communist, but that is why the press likes him so much.

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. is an icon of equality. Mandella, not so much.

He was a revolutionist. Only one man was successful at a massive national revolution with minimal to zero violence. You can not hold the violent revolt, against a massively racist and oppressive government, as sole detractor to Mandela's accomplishments.

Only one man was successful at a massive national revolution with minimal to zero violence. You can not hold the violent revolt, against a massively racist and oppressive government, as sole detractor to Mandela's accomplishments.

Wordplay save you, will not.


King had a "dream", which was eventually realised by other people.

Now I don't want to diminish King's accomplishments, but it's very different to what Mandela did and stood for, in various contexts.

SA and it's apartheid regime were the last, great bastions of sanctioned racism against black people on the planet. Mandela was active and involved in it's downfall, the flow-on effects of which resonated across the globe - aiding the realisation of King's dream (although it's a battle still far from won, a dream still not fully realized).

Mandela may not have been a saint, but he was instrumental in implementing his dream, and the dreams of millions who shared it across the planet.

Yes Mandela's death is/will be another bandwagon, but come on... if that's all anyones got to say in attempts to denigrate his passing away or the celebration of what he accomplished then LOL

(...)
There's no reason to go to great lengths attempting to tear Mandela down. But to excuse or even lionize his methods seems wrong to me. You can object and say he was "a revolutionary". While he certainly opposed an evil regime, he did it by endorsing tactics like bombing a 77 year old woman to death.

R.I.P. Nelson Mandela. Just don't try to tell me he was a "great man," fame doesn't make you great.

Not quite that minimal with regards to violence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe (yes, I saw it has been posted before, under a different heading)
Then again, I suppose it could have been much, much worse.

Not so great on the economic/political side either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Economic_Empowerment#Criticism
But I suppose that could have been much worse too.

Overall, while still not quite that close to the "western world" as a whole country-wise, it's still noticeably better than a lot of other countries on that continent.
In the balance, I guess he probably did more good than bad, so I suppose that's maybe worth praising.
Wouldn't exactly call him a hero, possibly not even a role model though.

On the other hand, I also hear quite a few opposing viewponts, which downright accuse him of (to put it extremely mildly) at least not acting out against the alleged systematic oppression of white people since the official end of the Apartheid.
http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html
I have absolutely no idea how much truth (if any) there might be behind those allegations, but even if one hundredth of it is true, it's still one order of magnitude worse than the "Umkhonto we Sizwe" thing.
Although, even if the allegations are true (to some degree at least), it's hard to tell whether N.M. could have done much (or anything) about it, so, who knows.

Oh well... I guess I'm glad I don't live in South Africa, so I don't have to find out for sure what's true or not on my own skin.
I suppose we'll never be completely sure of which version is the true one unless we invent a past-viewing-machine.

Thinking back, his wife Winnie sure wasn't a saint. Google her name and "necktie party" for some horrific stories about what happened to her enemies. But Winnie Mandela is not Nelson Mandela, of course.