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Irashi
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:18:00 -
[1]
Pirates are whining about the WCS in the C&P forum, do you think it's time T2 scramblers and disruptors were seeded? If I asked this question in C&P, I'd get responses like 'Yarrr matey, shiver me scramblers!', so I ask in a more relevent and hopefully unbiased one.
I've got nothing against someone who use WCS if they're mining or ratting in low se because they know they can't win against a PVP equipped ship, also not sure how exactly the WCS could be nerfed enough to please the pirates but not make it useless, as pirates also fit WCS when it suits them. It's been sugested that scrambling should work the same as jamming, that WCS should have stacking penalties or penalties to other ship systems like sensor strength. Thoughts on this would be good too.
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Waragha
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Posted - 2006.03.04 15:41:00 -
[2]
i think the real problem is people fighting with them on. That really ****es me off :>
Maybe 1wcs = disable all tanking
2wcs = disable all weapon systems
3wcs = do something crippling
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Filan
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:03:00 -
[3]
then you would need to have T2 WCS as well with +2 warp power. remember while that Apoc has 8 low slots to fill with WCS a badger only has three. so you cant make a stronger scram without a stronger WCS for the sake of the industrials.
however one idea i had for industrials is +1 warp power per level, this would allow tweaking the WCS stacking while not majorly hurting the ships that truely need to be scramproofed by the pilot.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bps, ty - Cortes |
Elve Sorrow
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:07:00 -
[4]
I wish my Apoc has 8 lows, that would make life so much easier.
/Elve |
Krulla
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Posted - 2006.03.04 16:10:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Waragha
i think the real problem is people fighting with them on. That really ****es me off :>
Maybe 1wcs = disable all tanking
2wcs = disable all weapon systems
3wcs = do something crippling
I belive a much simpler fix would be in order...
Either make WCS high slot, Or give each WCS a effect similar to a sensor dampner on your own ship.
This would mean people would still be able to travel with them, which is good, but would remove them from combat setups.
Respect the Domi. Or else.
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Zarthanon
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:57:00 -
[6]
WCS are one of the only low-slot modules that don't have a stacking/penalty in general. A module so strong with ZERO penalty to the ship just seems a bit silly. Impose the same stacking nerfs on them if you have to, so people don't have to fly around with 2 stilettos with -6 just to be able to scramble say an Armageddon.
Originally by: ParMizaN
i mayv or may nit abe a bit drunk
Originally by: Buddrow
TO THETR DRUMNBS OF WAR WET GHO
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Zarthanon
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Posted - 2006.03.04 17:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Irashi
I've got nothing against someone who use WCS if they're mining or ratting in low se because they know they can't win against a PVP equipped ship, also not sure how exactly the WCS could be nerfed enough to please the pirates but not make it useless, as pirates also fit WCS when it suits them. It's been sugested that scrambling should work the same as jamming, that WCS should have stacking penalties or penalties to other ship systems like sensor strength. Thoughts on this would be good too.
They tried the warp scramble the same as jamming thing, but never implemented it. I once had 3x stilettos with -6 on my Mega on the test server once, and I warped away. It didn't work like they planned if I remember correctly.
Originally by: ParMizaN
i mayv or may nit abe a bit drunk
Originally by: Buddrow
TO THETR DRUMNBS OF WAR WET GHO
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Keta Min
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:13:00 -
[8]
Yarrr matey, shiver me scramblers!
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Jack Brimstone
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Krulla
... Or give each WCS a effect similar to a sensor dampner on your own ship.
This would mean people would still be able to travel with them, which is good, but would remove them from combat setups.
Scan resolution penalty = best idea i have heard so far. Would seriously cut down stabs in combat setups, as well as dealing a blow to stabbed-up-snipers.
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Melkor Bloodaxe
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:28:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Filan
however one idea i had for industrials is +1 warp power per level, this would allow tweaking the WCS stacking while not majorly hurting the ships that truely need to be scramproofed by the pilot.
Good idea if you ask me. Give industrials and barges a warp power bonus per level. Would make it possible for the people who don't want to fight to put other things in lowslots, like cargo extenders and such instead of WCS.
Just for the love of the bear. 
---
49. Fares Hrym from the east / holding his shield
the Mithgard-Worm / in mighty rage
scatters the waves / screams the eagle
his nib tears the dead / Naglfar loosens.
[Voluspa] |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:40:00 -
[11]
cry more pirates
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Foulis
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Posted - 2006.03.04 18:53:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Melkor Bloodaxe
Originally by: Filan
however one idea i had for industrials is +1 warp power per level, this would allow tweaking the WCS stacking while not majorly hurting the ships that truely need to be scramproofed by the pilot.
Good idea if you ask me. Give industrials and barges a warp power bonus per level. Would make it possible for the people who don't want to fight to put other things in lowslots, like cargo extenders and such instead of WCS.
Just for the love of the bear.
We already have ships with a warp power bonus, blockade runners. Something like that would make them pretty much completely useless.
----
I <3 Taranis
Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.03.04 19:47:00 -
[13]
T2 scramblers/disruptors should have say 20% more range.
T2 WCS should use 25 CPU, not 30.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
Jon Xylur
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Posted - 2006.03.04 19:53:00 -
[14]
WCS are pretty much a necessity for me when I mine in lwo sec. I do, however detest people using them in combat to be able to allways run. They shoudl add soemthign like -10% damage for every WCS fitted. Thatway miners and haulers could use em, but they wouldn't be used in pvp
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BOBHOPE
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:14:00 -
[15]
i think using wcs is a viable tactic, i have fought many people wearing them and you just have to think out of the box.
i wear them occaisionally depending on circumstances - ie solo hunting in hostile territory, you dont want to go on a suicide mission but still want to have fun and strategy and tactics still plays its part when your outnumbered 3 or 4 to 1.
however.
yes, a geddon with 8wcs is lame
yes, a apoc with 7wcs is lame to.
but
the alignment of these ships is slow.
bubbles play a great part in trapping these people and planning out tactics in advance related to intelligence from your scouts.
a ship with its lows stacked full of wcs is just gimping itself to death anyways so just laugh and try again 
lets face it, a geddon with 8 wcs cant tank, hits for lame damage, all it can do is run.
what does that tell you? :D
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Halada
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:14:00 -
[16]
People willing to sacrifice a low-slot(s) for a WCS is their own business. Doing so, they sacrifice a damage-mod or support mod (PDU, BCU, Nano, whatever...) and will therefore be less efficient at combat... which means you won't have to fear them this much.
I dont give a rat's ass for those chicken runners ... gank and die or run and cry.
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Myal Terego
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:19:00 -
[17]
Small warp bubbles and a few tackle frigs inbetween them and the gate works wonders. We regularly nail stabbed up occators and viators with this method.
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IamBen
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:21:00 -
[18]
i dont see the big deal with WCS. Its usually pointless to carry em as everyone blobs to death with 1,000 points anyway. Half the ships I kill have a stab fitted, doesnt seem to help them very much.
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Halada
People willing to sacrifice a low-slot(s) for a WCS is their own business. Doing so, they sacrifice a damage-mod or support mod (PDU, BCU, Nano, whatever...) and will therefore be less efficient at combat... which means you won't have to fear them this much.
I dont give a rat's ass for those chicken runners ... gank and die or run and cry.
Most bs don't sacrifice exactly nothing when they fit stabs.
Usually it is gank or die... or run and gank again.
WCS = overpowered.
I use no guns... i smack to death. |
Ernest Graefenberg
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:25:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 04/03/2006 20:27:48
Originally by: Filan
then you would need to have T2 WCS as well with +2 warp power. remember while that Apoc has 8 low slots to fill with WCS a badger only has three. so you cant make a stronger scram without a stronger WCS for the sake of the industrials.
however one idea i had for industrials is +1 warp power per level, this would allow tweaking the WCS stacking while not majorly hurting the ships that truely need to be scramproofed by the pilot.
Whats the deal with wanting scrambleproof indys? One entire dedicated ships worth (like you said, 3-4 points) of stab is pretty powerful already - remember, that holds off a ton of non-dedicated setups like disruptors. If you jump into a freaking fleet with your badger because you didn't have anyone scout your path, well I hope you die good sir.
I can understand the need/desire to not be solo scrambled by anything but a dedicated/gimped setup, but doing more than that in any ship is nonsense in my oppinion. My favorite solution would still be to only introduce 3 point scramblers and leave warp disruptors at 1 point, emphasizing risk vs reward on the aggressors end as well. Of course that wouldn't quite fix things yet, but its a start.
To really fix things, better scanprobes and warpchasing tbh :p
Edit : I also don't get how "THINK OF THE INDYS" is a valid argument to a wcs change. So we'll change the freaking industrials around if thats necessary. Big deal.
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Darling Hassasin
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Posted - 2006.03.04 20:25:00 -
[21]
main problem with wcs is that they force peeps to gank rather than solo - 1v1 and thats definately bad
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Wierdal
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Posted - 2006.03.05 09:11:00 -
[22]
I dont see why WCS should change at all. 
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Tobiaz
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:20:00 -
[23]
Jay! Another 'Nerf the WCS' thread!
- leave the wcs, they are fine and have inherent penalties for taking up valuable low slots.
- add another T1 tackler frig with 4 midslots, bonus doubling the tackling strength and little offensive capabilities.
- take away some firepower from the Ares, Malediction, Raptor and the Stiletto, give them all 4 midslots and the same tackling strenght bonus.
SOLVED.
Spacerats hibernating
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2006.03.05 11:22:00 -
[24]
I like the suggestion about a scan resolution penalty. This would work really well especially against stabbed up sniper BS who are the main problem here.
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