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Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 07:38:00 -
[1]
So, I noticed the bit about new jumps in the patch notes, but it didn't say anything about having moved the entire star system. Yet, according to my map (now that I've travelled most of the way there), they have.
How does that work, exactly? What vast unseen forces move the suns around as if they were but marbles? Are we but playthings to these unknown gods?
And is this change temporary or permanent?
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.03.06 07:46:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Jal Sireyl
So, I noticed the bit about new jumps in the patch notes, but it didn't say anything about having moved the entire star system. Yet, according to my map (now that I've travelled most of the way there), they have.
How does that work, exactly? What vast unseen forces move the suns around as if they were but marbles? Are we but playthings to these unknown gods?
And is this change temporary or permanent?
I got the impression that they just made it so there were an additional or shifted gates... I belive you can go AROUND ours now, rather than being forced through it to go between some places?
also shortened some routes...
I see no problem with this? and in a RP sense is there some reason they couldn't just re-direct jump gates?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
mrbabooon
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Posted - 2006.03.06 07:48:00 -
[3]
It was me. I'm sorry.
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Cmdr Sy
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Posted - 2006.03.06 07:51:00 -
[4]
Looks like a case of Lazy CAD Man. 
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Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:38:00 -
[5]
Nope, it has definitely been moved. Oursulaert is no longer in the same place on the map. And where once there was a gate from Alentene to Oursulaert and back, now the route is Alentene -> Merolles -> Tar -> Pakhshi -> Oursulaert.
Also, there's only one jump to/from Oursulaert. So it seems to me that this is a rather daft "solution" to the problem. Oursulaert is now a backwater, rather than a hub. So all the traffic that once went there is going to go somewhere else instead, thus shifting the problem rather than solving it.
Devs, please take heed: Oursulaert was not a hub of commerce and travel because it had a nifty name, so moving it to the hind-end of a run of jumps will not remove the excess travellers while preserving the trade functions. It was a hub because it was a hub; it was at the center of things. All roads led to Oursulaert. Now all roads will lead somewhere else, and that system will wind up with the same problems.
I submit to you that the solution is not randomly to shuffle star systems, thus ruining carefully-planned trade routes and upsetting your customers, every time a commercial hub forms. The solution is either to increase the resources allocated to that hub until it can handle the load placed upon it, or to admit that your goal of one universe for all is beyond the capabilities of your current hardware and software and subdivide the EVE universe until the infrastructure can handle the number of players active.
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Joshua Foiritain
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:41:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jal Sireyl
Also, there's only one jump to/from Oursulaert. So it seems to me that this is a rather daft "solution" to the problem. Oursulaert is now a backwater, rather than a hub. So all the traffic that once went there is going to go somewhere else instead, thus shifting the problem rather than solving it.
The hub is dead, problem solved 
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[Coreli Corporation Mainframe] |
Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:46:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
The hub is dead, problem solved
Well... maybe. But it'll be back, and what then? Move star systems every couple of weeks to keep us off-balance? Turn the entire universe into a two-lane highway, only two gates allowed per system?
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.03.06 15:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Jal Sireyl
Devs, please take heed: Oursulaert was not a hub of commerce and travel because it had a nifty name, so moving it to the hind-end of a run of jumps will not remove the excess travellers while preserving the trade functions. It was a hub because it was a hub; it was at the center of things. All roads led to Oursulaert. Now all roads will lead somewhere else, and that system will wind up with the same problems.
One of the main problems with Ours was that not only was it a great hub system, on a major route but it also had good agents of all levels. So while it might not be the center of commerce anymore, the mission runners will still be there probably. It will be interesting to see how the mission work. What once was a 1 jump mission, might be many more now.
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Lil Miner |
Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:14:00 -
[9]
If the agents were the cause of the problem, in the sense of being the proverbial back-breaking straw, then why not move the agents before playing billiards with suns?
It's all quite strange to me. I like an orderly universe, in which the stars don't go teleporting across the light-years. 
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Carter Burke
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
The hub is dead, problem solved
Bzzt. Wrong. Lazy devs just moved it.
Until they realize that
(1) people don't like to spend time travelling,
and
(2) people have stuff they want to sell to each other,
then we will continue to have "hub" systems, where people will congregate.
Jal was correct. The moron who came up with this idea of "moving" Oursulaert simply pushed the problem onto another box rather than fixing it.
CB
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jal Sireyl
If the agents were the cause of the problem, in the sense of being the proverbial back-breaking straw, then why not move the agents before playing billiards with suns?
It's all quite strange to me. I like an orderly universe, in which the stars don't go teleporting across the light-years.
If they close the road I use to get into London and I take an alternate route, that does NOT mean London has moved.
Does it?
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mergblue
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:19:00 -
[12]
Didn't they just remove the Oursulaert-Alentene gate?
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Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:23:00 -
[13]
Well, on the map, it certainly looks as if Oursulaert has moved, rather than simply having the stargates shifted around.
So in this case (unless my memory of the map is playing tricks on me), it would be rather like waking up one morning to a travel advisory stating that London has been moved to Wales.
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:38:00 -
[14]
I thought they changed the gates about a bit and oursulag now has 3 gates rather than just 2. Or was i mistaken and its now a dead end?
My Latest Vid (16/02/06) |
Simon Illian
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Posted - 2006.03.06 16:44:00 -
[15]
dead end now :p
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Passepartout
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:08:00 -
[16]
Yes, it does solve the hub problem to make more jumps around the system and past the system.
Ours, Rens and Jita where all hubs becuase of agents - but def also because they where natural traffic hubs. By changing the jumps they (try to)ensure that no hub can form and hinder movement back and forth between other systems, like espc. Rens and Ours did.
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Luther Kincaid
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:11:00 -
[17]
The dev responsible for Map management sneezed on the screen.. then tried to figure out which dots where there before and which weren't.. guess he made a mistake
-------------------------------------------
*sig space for hire,the fee is merely your soul and a buttload of pain*
*warning, this sigspace is fitted with T2 antihijack technology*
Too bad we have Jove technology then, cause this was no match for us - Wrangler
I have already won the thread, end of forum boss respawns when Kieron says so - Cortes
 - - Imaran |
Serendipity007
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:11:00 -
[18]
Moving systems as to fix overload lag? Thats not a fix, thats duct tape over a hole in a dam...
People will just find other systems that are central and move their stuff to sell there.
___________________________________________________
"I'm an engineer, not a miracle worker!" - Scotty, Star Trek: The Original Series |
Karazaan
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:34:00 -
[19]
The reals problems are the Hub existance.
We had Yulai, what a mistake. It was trown in the middle of nowhere, a little reorganisation and 3 or more hubs were created. Again, a problem, we try to nuke them again, let's see if 2 or 3 hubs per regions will be created.
Devs seem to be so opposed to the ideas of making the Eve universe bigger that they will try to nuke the hub one by one until there is none. But the solution would be to SLOW DOWN travel. So the peoples that play have a sense of what's local to them and a place to call home. You have no HOME when you can be anywhere in one hour. Traders can move stuff around for everyone, no need for everyone to move to the center of the universe. It's create a lot more problem then it solve but hey, I'm so counter-wave here that I will stop.
So let's create another thread so we can find a new hub so that the peoples currently calling it home can start to scream and move away under lag and designate a new target for the next nuke. I mean, realistically, why is there more than 5000 systems in the game when we could put everyone in the same and put the whole cluster supporting it? Pathetic.
I love MY part of the universe. I'm THERE and nowhere else.
Remove they highway, remove instant bookmark around gates and add more path to 0.0 to create strategic positionning. Not just who can move a fleet faster to the chokepoints/blobs. |
Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:44:00 -
[20]
By the way, it doesn't seem to be working. The lag in Oursulaert and surrounding systems right now is the worst I've ever experienced in EVE.
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Xelios
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:45:00 -
[21]
You know, I agree with Karazaan. Back in eary release before we even had hiway gates your region was your home, and a trip to another faction's space meant a couple hours of flight time. You felt a lot more isolated than you do now, and it was kinda nice. Now the majority of empire is within 15 jumps reach, there's no real sense of connection to any part of the universe because you can be anywhere in so little time.
Signature removed. -Zhuge ([email protected])
Woot.
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Enaxtiomarus
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:49:00 -
[22]
Oursulaert couldn't have moved, because my station bookmarks still work. So, it must be that the map is wrong now, or that the map was wrong before and now it is corrected. Who knows? Only a jedi could have changed the star-map information in the library.
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Karazaan
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Posted - 2006.03.06 17:57:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Xelios
[...]Back in eary release before we even had hiway gates [...]
And there was opportunity to go get a haul full of cargo expander 1 in another region and bring it to yours for some profit.
Maybe a simple solution would be jump gate fee, but I prefer slow travel to toll anyday. |
Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:06:00 -
[24]
As someone who's only been playing for six months... what's a highway gate, and how were things different before?
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Leandro Salazar
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:18:00 -
[25]
Looking at the map right now, Ours has 3 outgoing starlanes. Most definitely not a deadend? Are you seeing things?
___________________________________
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? |
Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:31:00 -
[26]
I may have been. 
It looked like a dead-end this morning. But then, it was morning. I had no coffee in me yet. I've been known to hallucinate in similar circumstances. 
But still, it's odd and annoying and disruptive, for no apparent good purpose.
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Karazaan
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:31:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jal Sireyl
As someone who's only been playing for six months... what's a highway gate, and how were things different before?
Well, an highway gate is not different than other on the look, but on the map you can see it's one when it goes very far.
At the start there was none, so the map was vast (as you can imagine by pressing F11, in a sense).
They added more gates to link each region to the system Yulai. They also added more link from theses region to the outer ones. Not directly to 0.0 but close so that travel from one side of the universe to the other was very quick.
You could almost change regions each 3 jumps and get the price of stuff in 10 regions in about 15 jumps. So economy went down a little, because everyone was fighting the current price minus 1 cent syndrome.
After a while, they got serious lag problem (which returned lately but we were free of for like a year). So at that time, they moved gates so that you could avoid the choke. Enough path around a hub made it so that people going in different direction from different place could take different route and not jump thru the same single system. Helped a little.
Guess the faction wars that seem to be coming have forced the separation of empires. So they nuked the easy travel from Minmatar to Amarr space (in 2 jumps before) so that now you need many jump. (Unless you use the pirate highway).
There is also the Exodus part where they added more link to 0.0 to help people find the door and exit the prison of empire.
In the last patch, result of lag I guess, they move the gates again to 'distribute the people' a little more.
So basically, an highway can be spotted on the map by a very long lines in empire. They were easyer to spot before because they were going all linked together like a web. They allowed you to skip a lot of boring system when travelling.
Best single move to spread the people, the new manufacturing chains in station. Limiting the production speed of any station if there is too much people producing.
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Jason Kildaro
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Posted - 2006.03.06 18:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Jal Sireyl
I may have been.
It looked like a dead-end this morning. But then, it was morning. I had no coffee in me yet. I've been known to hallucinate in similar circumstances.
But still, it's odd and annoying and disruptive, for no apparent good purpose.
But there was a purpose. It is to try to prevent all the "flow through" traffic in the hub systems. Do you want to live in a lagged out system?
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Malena Panic
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Posted - 2006.03.06 19:19:00 -
[29]
So what will the new Gallente commerce up be? It should be near the Noobs in Ours and the mission runners too.
Luminaire maybe?
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Jal Sireyl
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Posted - 2006.03.06 22:07:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Jason Kildaro
But there was a purpose. It is to try to prevent all the "flow through" traffic in the hub systems. Do you want to live in a lagged out system?
But was it effective? I was there earlier today, and there were only ("only," he says ) 250-odd people in Oursulaert. Yet the lag was much worse than I've seen there before, even with well over three hundred people in the system.
Also, as I said before, the purpose is self-defeating. If they successfully break this hub system, a new one will appear. It isn't a solution, it's just sweeping the problem under the rug, where it leaves a very large and obvious lump. Like a small elephant under the aforementioned rug, or an extraordinarily large wombat.
Speaking of hubs and highways, how might this work as an alternative? Have a pre-determined hub for each region (with extra resources allocated so that it can handle the strain); this would be the primary marketplace and meeting-place (though agents and the like could be spread out elsewhere). Have all of these hubs connected by mega-gates, and only a few other back-alley routes (much more dangerous) between regions.
By actually planning for a hub system, the players could reap the benefits thereof, and perhaps the infrastructure could cope with it. And by bottlenecking travel intentionally (and perhaps charging to use the megagates, or having them go off on a set schedule), you could extend travel times between regions without having to extend ALL travel times. The best of both worlds, perhaps?
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