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Sava Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.12.14 14:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
Old topic I know, but I just had this thought and wanted to share it.
Keep all mining ships the way they are. Keep mining lasers the way they are. Change the asteroids.
Make it so that when a mining laser finishes a cycle on an asteroid there is a graphical effect of the laser pulsing(surge in power?). This pulse will coincide with the asteroid kicking out scatter containers that are re-skinned to look like smaller versions of what ever asteroid that is being mined. These scatter containers that break off will float away from the asteroid at a decent velocity, will be tractorable, and they will disappear after a short duration.
These scatter containers have to be dragged in to a ship (The players, a dedicated second ship, or anyone's and doesnt generate a flag) via a tractor beam. Mining ships only need to have one mining laser fitted, but more active lasers upon a single asteroid will create additional timers (one for each laser) that will spawn more of these tractor-able scatter containers. This spawn rate can easily be balanced against current yield rates.
EX1: A solo miner can have one strip miner and two tractor beams on his ship, or two strip miners and one tractor for faster-paced action to try and grab all the cans before they disappear.
EX2: A mining fleet can operate as a group doing EX1; or they can designate a ship(s) that has a lot of high slots to sit back and tractor in all the scatter cans to a central location where the cans will be dragged into a fleet hanger/freighter/orca/cargocan which will then be hauled to station like normal.
EX3: A miner will be operating as in EX1; however someone else who wants to annoy him will warp in with another ship with a lot of highs and will start stealing his scatter cans. Only one tractor can be operational on an object at one time, so this will be a race for tractoring in cans. (Sensor boosted Noctis/Destroyer?)
Rough thoughts,
inb4 "highsec pubby go back to carebearing" |
Veritaal
Veri-Tech Tax Haven
25
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Posted - 2013.12.14 17:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I approve of any idea that makes mining less soul crushingly boring.
Regardless of what the anti-miner crowd thinks, I need people crunching space rocks in order to have ships to blow up! |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
362
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 17:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting in a nerf-multiboxing accounts / nerf highsec / nerf industry / nerf skiffs/procurers thread.
And, if you need a tractor beam on exhumers and you don't give them an extra high utility slot, you've made an entire class (skiff/procurer) (some of the best/ most popular ships for solo miners currently) useless for solo play.
YK
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." |
Endovior
Osmosis Inc
Li3 Federation
134
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Posted - 2013.12.14 19:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting idea, but I wouldn't support mining being purely scatter-based. Carrots rather than sticks, after all... here's how I'd implement it.
Mining yield should be more-or-less unchanged (a slight nerf might be acceptable, but don't go overboard)... but in addition to standard yields, have asteroids break off ore chunks randomly while mining lasers are operating. Chunks have a longish duration (a minute or two, instead of the seconds that a scatter container lasts), but tend to break off at a higher velocity, which makes them difficult for larger ships to chase down (maybe make chunks targetable, such that you can grab them with a tractor beam). That said, chunks are unowned; anyone can grab them without attracting CONCORD's attention, if they're quick enough; they should be valuable enough, in comparison w that peopl
Ordinary mining lasers should generate fewer chunks, but at a slower velocity, so smaller ships that mine with lasers (like the Venture, which conveniently has a utility hislot) should be able to gather most the chunks they produce, if they're on the ball. In contrast, strip miners generate lots more chunks, but at high velocities, making quite a mess. When an asteroid is depleted, it explodes in a shower of chunks, filling space with tasty ore.
Additionally, add another ORE Industrial ship... along the same lines as the Noctis, but with an ore hold instead of the salvage bonus; this ship will specialize in hunting down chunks. Finally, consider adding a utility hislot to the other mining ships, to reward non-AFK miners.
This combination will make it more profitable and more interesting for new players to solo mine in a Venture, since they can enrich themselves by hunting down their own chunks. More experienced players that use strip miners can still grab some chunks if they're on the ball, but tractor beam or no, barges and exhumers will still generate a lot more chunks than they can gather. As such, mining groups (and multiboxers) will find it beneficial to bring some dedicated chunk-hunters along... but on the other hand, chunk ninjas will casually invite themselves to belts frequented by AFK/bot types, and enrich themselves in the process. |
Centis Adjani
The Scope
Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2013.12.14 19:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
If EvE would be a real world, the inhabitants would have developed a complete different mining technology.
In real world we see that things (cars, computers, planes, ships, smartphones,...) each year become faster, more reliable and with less power consumption. Thats called technical progress.
In EvE we see that ships become slower (BS with 2 AU instead of 3 for example), that weapons load longer (RML need 40 seconds to load, since loading I became fascinated by the TV and forgot to activate firing after reload) and other things like that.
Thats the opposite of technical progress and totally implausible for a world with space ships and space travel, aso.
The mining follows the same idea than the fighting. Thats implausible too.
You fit a ship with lasers for mining in high Slot, like you fit a fighter with guns or missile launchers.
In a real universe only ships like the Orca would visit belts. With an ore cargo of about 100.000 m-¦ or more.
They would drop 12 or more mining drones with a control range of approx. 50 to 70 km to reach any asteroid in the belt.
And each drone with a yield similar (or higher) than a mining laser. May be specialized drones with a yield
similar to tech2 mining lasers with crystals for ascertain rocks. Such a drone would be able to keep an amount
of about 2500 m-¦ (or more) of ore before returning to the mining ship.
The pilot would sent out the drones and need to control which rocks they work on and to protect them against belt rats.
Just my 2ct
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Sava Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 19:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
@Yonis Kador
Not sure what you mean by your first sentence. I would almost think that this would cater to multi-boxing fleets because then one ship could then do all the tractoring for everyone else. You would really only need to look at one client (the tractor client) and the rest can just sit there with lasers cycling.
Also, good point on the Skiff/Procurer. I use those so infrequently that I forgot they only had one high slot. Edited main post to say: "All mining ships should get a high-slot that you can only fit a tractor beam in. Or something like that. Ideally it would be a special module that only they could use, but for now the tractor beam is low-hanging fruit.
@Endovior
I am still on the fence myself there. I think that they should all go over to the scatter container aspect, but I can also see arguments for the legacy system.
For your second paragraph: That is exactly what I was trying to say with the OP. I like how you phrased it though, might be more readable. I like the idea of another ORE ship, but really I would like to see the Primae revitalized for this role.
@Centis Adjani
I agree with you here. Sadly this isn't the real world and we have to live within the bounds of CCP's sandbox. I would like to see this mining-mothership a reality; however one could say that that is what the Rorqual was used for, and is used for when it is in-belt next to a posse of hulks. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
904
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
I like the idea of turning asteroids into loot pinatas (aka: scatter minerals). Anything has to be more exciting than just sitting there, no?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
362
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I guess my point is that anyone who thinks miners are "just sitting there" isn't multiboxing an orca and even 2 hulks. With only 2, you already have to monitor 6 mining lasers, 2 ore holds, 3 orca holds, 2 sets of mining drones, 1 set of security drones, 1 set of salvage drones, and 3 survey scanners every 2 minutes while minimizing/maximizing 3 accts, watching local, tapping d-scan and repositioning and realigning slow-moving ships.
Yet I frequently see proposals designed to make mining even "more engaging."
Wow, huh? It just seems to me that anyone who thinks miners are "just sitting there" either isn't mining or must only be referring to solo-mining mackinaws and ice miners. Because with the advent of the ore hold, no covetors or hulks are afk mining (it isn't possible, their holds will not contain 2 cycles of ore) and the procurers/skiffs cannot hold 3. Four of the six mining vessels in game cannot "just sit there" for very long without doing anything or they sure won't be generating any isk.
And now you guys want to add a "chunk hunt" to a miner's 2 minute task queue. If you add much more to mining, people who are present and engaged are going to have so little time to do anything, they'll be just as useless as players who are afk. So I'm just going to say that irrespective of the merits, without a major industry revamp, I wouldn't support proposals of this nature.
Make a few accounts, and fly out with an orca and 2-3 hulks and get back to me on how much time you think you'd have for a chunk hunt.
YK
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
686
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 22:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think multi boxing should be banned, it's ruining eve.
Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
Sava Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 22:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
@ Yonis Kador
I understand what you are saying now, however I find that I must disagree.
I routinely mine with 6 Hulks under full Rorqual boosts. I find that I am so bored with the process that I often play CIV V or minecraft on the other screen just to keep somewhat interested. You must not have an efficient routine to mining.
inb4: I do not use ISboxer or any other 3rd party anything.
@Little Dragon Khamez
I agree to some extent, but any other method would ruin the economy as it is now.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
RAZOR Alliance
249
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Posted - 2013.12.14 23:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I think multi boxing should be banned, it's ruining eve.
Multi boxing is the only thing keeping Eve alive. |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
364
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 00:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sava Tsero wrote:@ Yonis Kador
I understand what you are saying now, however I find that I must disagree.
I routinely mine with 6 Hulks under full Rorqual boosts. I find that I am so bored with the process that I often play CIV V or minecraft on the other screen just to keep somewhat interested. You must not have an efficient routine to mining.
inb4: I do not use ISboxer or any other 3rd party anything.
So what you're saying is that using 36 mining lasers at once and monitoring 6 ore holds, multiple rorqual holds, 6 sets of mining drones, salvage drones, and survey scanners every 2 minutes while minimizing/maximizing 7 clients, watching local, tapping d-scan and repositioning and realigning slow-moving ships still allows you enough free time to play minecraft on a second monitor?
Oh, well, the answer is simple. You're an alien. o/
YK
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2013.12.15 00:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
bullshit i mine with 7 accs 6 Barges 1 rorqual
switch the hulks to macks
mine in a hidden belt and its not that much work
looking for rats and neuts if a cloaky there hitting d scan
thats all
after 10-15 min warp to pos unload cargo back to belt with
hulks its more challanging and its is more work than flying anos or mission
running but even that isnt that much work if you know what you do
and multiboxers dosnt destroy eve
i dont know a single player with only 1 acc
i think 2,5 accs per eve player is standart |
Mrchafe
Zero Frequency
Disavowed.
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 01:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Centis Adjani wrote:
In a real universe only ships like the Orca would visit belts. With an ore cargo of about 100.000 m-¦ or more.
They would drop 12 or more mining drones with a control range of approx. 50 to 70 km to reach any asteroid in the belt.
And each drone with a yield similar (or higher) than a mining laser. May be specialized drones with a yield
similar to tech2 mining lasers with crystals for ascertain rocks. Such a drone would be able to keep an amount
of about 2500 m-¦ (or more) of ore before returning to the mining ship.
The pilot would sent out the drones and need to control which rocks they work on and to protect them against belt rats.
More belt rats, strip mining drones and orca (mining carrier)
+50
I would train for mining if this was the case.
Go Orca team! |
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
364
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 01:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
With mackinaws at least you've got ore hold space. That would make a little more sense. But with hulks you've got to monitor all those things every 2 minutes. A hulk's ore hold cannot contain 2 cycles of ore. If you can manipulate and monitor roughly 50 variables every 2 minutes and still find time to get bored, more power to you. That's what? 2.4 seconds to consider each thing? I'm sure there are people who can do it.
But I still don't think adding a chunk hunt to the existing mechanics would make things more interesting or compelling. It's just going to add more tedium to an already-tedious process imo. And how tedious would you have to make the process for someone capable of manipulating that many variables with ease to find the process challenging? And how long before they master that?
I'm neither sure the game should be balanced around such individuals nor that such a level of tedium would even be conducive to pgc. An argument could certainly be made that in occupying every second of an industrialist's free time, they'll have none to generate any. There has to be a balance and I suspect it will leave outliers dissatisfied, ultimately.
But, gd, how safe is mining in null? I actually have to worry about getting ganked in high sec (people you don't know are always in your system) and my belts get mined with such varying intensity that I have to have multiple alternate sites rtg.
YK
"Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 01:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
hahahaha mining in 0.0 is safer than in empire
if someone who isnt blue standing in the system you know there is someone that wants to kill you
+ the roids are large in the hidden belts with all my ships i can mine one roid over 20 mins combine that with the huge ore hold of a mack and you know how a player can get bored of mining warp in lasers on looking on local intel d scan after 10-15 min unload the cargo i personal mine with hulks warp in lasers on switch to the first hulk wait until the cycle runs out ore in the jetcan
switch to the next hulk thats takes about 60 sek my cycletime is 121 sek so i have 60sek to spare for hauling and compressing ore |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
596
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 01:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Start by making mining barges actual cruisers with real fittings/slot numbers & simply hard limit strip miners ala Command Links.
Then you have decent ships to work with from there for any mechanic.
Right now we have deliberately gimped ships with hardly any fitting options because it's all hard coded into the base hulls. |
elitatwo
Congregatio
178
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 05:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Start by making mining barges actual cruisers with real fittings/slot numbers & simply hard limit strip miners ala Command Links.
Then you have decent ships to work with from there for any mechanic.
Right now we have deliberately gimped ships with hardly any fitting options because it's all hard coded into the base hulls.
You beat me to it.
I was mining yesterday (and yes I do mine from time to time, just for some low number of mineral gathering) and as I was sitting in my Procurer, I thought it would be so awesome to have a mwd on the damn thing,
you know for repositioning to another rock you want to persue next and is out of reach and slowboating 50km is the least ever fun activity in EVE.
With an added utility high and a tractor beam, you can stay in that site and take your jetcans with you and haul the stuff later or let a corp buddy haul it.
Yes multiboxing is bad, that is what corporations are for, you know your corp buddies of likeminded folks to assist and aid each others activities or built on them for more profit, tears or what not.
signature |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
450
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 06:30:00 -
[19] - Quote
let's not make all mining a pain in the butt.
-á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Sava Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
But wouldn't this make mining easier for large fleets?
Only the tractor-dude would really have to pay attention. |
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Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
743
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Posted - 2013.12.17 07:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
so, why does everyone feel like enforcing their play style on mining?
how about we force PvP and missioners to play a minigame to start firing their guns similar to the exploration minigame?
we wont, and you know why? it doesnt match the mindset and demographic that playstyle entails. mining is for players who want to focus more on talking with their buddies, and taking thinsg slow, perhaps doing a term paper, or eating a sandwhich, without being completely excluded from advancement.
semi-afk gameplay is mining, thats what it is, thats what it needs to be.
besides that, loot spew of any kind is seriously old, got boring after the third time (minigame was boring after the fifth), all it did was make me click 8 times as much for almost the same isk.
Proven FACT, any mechanic introduced to "break up the monotony" of a task that must be repeated often enough to become "monotonous" will NOT, magically, make it "fun for the whole family". all it will do is add extra clicks and time to accomplish the same monotonous task, making it even more boring, and making more people grow tired of it.
lets compare it to something else, how about, for POS bashing, CCP makes POS's completely invulnerabel until you capture 3 nodes surrounding them to drop its second shield. this extra mechanic to break up the monotony of structure shooting does NOT make it "more fun", it makes it take even longer for the same result to be achieved, which is why nullsec wars end with so many burnouts.
so to reiterate AGAIN, mining does NOT need to be "made more fun" because by its very nature it CANNOT be "more fun". it has a place, it fulfills that place, if you feel bored doing it, then find a different aspect fo EVE that IS designed to cater to your playstyle. |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2013.12.17 07:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
why do so many people think mining is fals as its is now
i like mining the way it is i can mine aktive for more yield or passiv and read a book
but the passive way risks my ships more than the aktive way besides the income isnt high
so why do so many peoply think mining is wrong if you dont like it dont mine |
ionageman TOG
security services
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 06:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
my perfectly trained 4 hulks / freighter and orca become pointless .. nice.
i payed to train them for nothing..
guess i won't need to plex them anymore.
if you think this will have any benfit fo eve .. your mistaken..
may ore prices sky rocket and your ships become unafordable..
and if you think it's easy to keep 4 hulks mining at perfect effiency .. your wrong.
seems it's not alt accounts that are killing eve but the war against botters. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
50
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Posted - 2013.12.30 17:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
mining's not boring - it's relaxing - when I mine - I don't WANT to be chasing down bits of rock - I want to be spending most of my attention on chat (local or corp) or a movie on the other screen
there should be a way that doesn't punish the 'kick-back-and-relax' miners by more than 1 or 2 percent.....
reconcile the 2 and you've fixed mining! |
Dori Tos
Galactic Innovations
12
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Posted - 2013.12.31 03:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:I think multi boxing should be banned, it's ruining eve.
Almost everybody as at least 2 accounts,which means that if multi-boxing would be banned,CCP would lose at least half it's income,probably much more than that. EVE would die.So no, multi-boxing is NOT ruining EVE.
Mining is mostly fine as it is,but perhaps adding some sort of mini games that slightly increase your yield would be a nice addition...As long as it's not obligatory and you can still chose to afk mine,and also as long as it's not a click fest.
I'm delicious. |
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
52
|
Posted - 2013.12.31 07:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
yes, it needs to be something I can do with only half a brain - since I'm a bear of very little brain in the first place  |
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