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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
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Posted - 2013.12.16 15:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is the Phi Operation Protector supposed to be impossible to kill? I was in a Drake and with 200dps I couldn't kill it even with faction ammo. When to restock only for someone to come and kill him and take the loot.
My point is isn't high sec sites supposed to be the way to let new players get into things, is having a enemy that takes 400dps (do I'm told) to kill a good way of getting people into things? It seems unfair if you can only complete the site with a heavy assault cruiser. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
647
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Posted - 2013.12.16 16:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
You had low dps. You know what the problem is. You certainly don't need a HAC to get better dps.
Are you asking about how to get better dps or are you just complaining?
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
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Posted - 2013.12.16 16:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Batelle wrote:You had low dps. You know what the problem is. You certainly don't need a HAC to get better dps.
Are you asking about how to get better dps or are you just complaining?
I'm asking about the logic behind it
I thought everything in high sec was supposed to be for new players (apart from incursions) with hard/more rewarding stuff available in low and null. Then they swing you a curve ball with the phi-outpost with something you have to have an all level 5 battlecruiser ship and tech 2 heavy missiles to be able to beat it.
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Batelle
Komm susser Tod
647
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Posted - 2013.12.16 16:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
The logic is that he's an overseer boss that can drop loot worth well over 100m isk. He's going to be tougher than other stuff. If you think he's too tough then that's your personal value judgement.
Paul Otichoda wrote:
I thought everything in high sec was supposed to be for new players (apart from incursions) with hard/more rewarding stuff available in low and null.
This is an oversimplification. New players can make it in nullsec and lots of old players find rewarding things to do in hisec. Unfortunately for you, one of the things old players will do is blitz 4/10s because they can do them fast enough and the rewards are good enough to attract them.
Quote:Then they swing you a curve ball with the phi-outpost with something you have to have an all level 5 battlecruiser ship and tech 2 heavy missiles to be able to beat it.
Well, this is just false. There's a lot of daylight between a low sp 200dps drake and a guy with level 5 skills and a hac. Phi-outpost overseer is a tough one but there are things you can do to kill him. One of course is to improve your skills that will directly result in more damage. Other things is adjust your ship fit for more dps. You can bring heavy assault missles, you can refit your ship in space with a mobile depot for more damage by adding more ballistic control systems, you can make sure to get dps from your drones. This is why I asked if you want advice on how to get better dps or if you want to complain. If you post your ship fit or skills (list them, summarize them, or link to eveboard.com) then you can get more constructive advice.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Celia Therone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
45
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've killed the overseer before in a Vexor, albeit with fairly high drone skills and adequate gunnery with only meta guns - but pre drone damage amplifier so it's probably easier now if you can survive the drone aggro switching.
Supposedly neuting npcs decreases the chance that they will repair themselves although I don't think I've ever actually benefited from it.
There's far too little exploration progression in high sec as it is, it's great that there's something there that encourages you to get better.
You also don't need all Vs to get 400 dps out of a drake. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1744
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Posted - 2013.12.16 17:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Phi overseer is also one of the rare times you really, really shouldn't use kinetic damage. His kinetic resists are unusually high; try hitting him with thermal next time. A full flight of Hobgoblin IIs will also help quite a bit. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
647
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Posted - 2013.12.16 18:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:The Phi overseer is also one of the rare times you really, really shouldn't use kinetic damage. His kinetic resists are unusually high; try hitting him with thermal next time. A full flight of Hobgoblin IIs will also help quite a bit.
THIS IS A USEFUL POST
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=17412
I never knew this.
"CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 19:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:The Phi overseer is also one of the rare times you really, really shouldn't use kinetic damage. His kinetic resists are unusually high; try hitting him with thermal next time. A full flight of Hobgoblin IIs will also help quite a bit.
I did
I was getting some navy inferno missiles when an isthar came and finished him off by the time I got back. |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
595
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Posted - 2013.12.16 19:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
I've done the site with an ishkur. The problem isn't the site. It's that you have low dps
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
385
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Posted - 2013.12.16 19:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
So you're asking if it's broken, as if your failure must almost surely be indicative that something isn't working as intended?  |
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1744
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Posted - 2013.12.16 20:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:The Phi overseer is also one of the rare times you really, really shouldn't use kinetic damage. His kinetic resists are unusually high; try hitting him with thermal next time. A full flight of Hobgoblin IIs will also help quite a bit. I did I was getting some navy inferno missiles when an isthar came and finished him off by the time I got back.
Don't know what to tell you then. 75 DPS applied pure thermal should break even; 100 should kill him slowly. In contrast, 187.5 DPS applied pure kinetic will break even, which means something more like 225-250 would kill him slowly.
Is your quoted 200 DPS kinetic or non-kinetic? Because if it's non-kinetic I have absolutely no idea what the problem was. If it's kinetic -- well, that's really low and it sounds like a skill problem to me. The numbers I see on a quick inspection (my skills, which are better but shouldn't be THAT much better) are 500 DPS CN Scourge HAM without drones and 333 DPS CN Inferno HAM (still no drones). That should easily break the overseer without drones, and a flight of hobs should add somewhere between 50 and 100 DPS depending on skills.
In the future, I'd suggest carrying inferno if you know you're hunting for Serpentis 4/10s. Otherwise? Get those skills up. It should be viable. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 23:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:The Phi overseer is also one of the rare times you really, really shouldn't use kinetic damage. His kinetic resists are unusually high; try hitting him with thermal next time. A full flight of Hobgoblin IIs will also help quite a bit. I did I was getting some navy inferno missiles when an isthar came and finished him off by the time I got back. Don't know what to tell you then. 75 DPS applied pure thermal should break even; 100 should kill him slowly. In contrast, 187.5 DPS applied pure kinetic will break even, which means something more like 225-250 would kill him slowly. Is your quoted 200 DPS kinetic or non-kinetic? Because if it's non-kinetic I have absolutely no idea what the problem was. If it's kinetic -- well, that's really low and it sounds like a skill problem to me. The numbers I see on a quick inspection (my skills, which are better but shouldn't be THAT much better) are 500 DPS CN Scourge HAM without drones and 333 DPS CN Inferno HAM (still no drones). That should easily break the overseer without drones, and a flight of hobs should add somewhere between 50 and 100 DPS depending on skills. In the future, I'd suggest carrying inferno if you know you're hunting for Serpentis 4/10s. Otherwise? Get those skills up. It should be viable.
I use heavy missiles so I have just 214 dps from CN kinetic missiles with CN inferno I get about 165 dps. I didn't have drones fitted at the time.
and no mainly I search for sites in my cruiser but if I find a 4/10 I run back to dodixie and grab my drake to try and get the price. And then I return to find a assault cruiser finishing up running the site.
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1627
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Posted - 2013.12.16 23:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Level 4 missions are going to really suck with only 214 DPS as well. and they are in HS.
This is less of a noob in HS issue and more of your fit must suck issue.
I was getting better dps back when i was a wee lad capsuleer in my LVL 3 myrmidon. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 23:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Level 4 missions are going to really suck with only 214 DPS as well. and they are in HS.
This is less of a noob in HS issue and more of your fit must suck issue.
I was getting better dps back when i was a wee lad capsuleer in my LVL 3 myrmidon.
no I do my level 4 missions in my 490 dps navy faction raven but you can't fit them through a 4/10 DED site gate so you have to use the drake and I only have the drake at level 3
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Jill Chastot
Modulated Dreams
Against ALL Anomalies
56
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Posted - 2013.12.17 00:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ishkurs/Ishtars are cool. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
395
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Posted - 2013.12.17 00:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Is the Phi Operation Protector supposed to be impossible to kill? I was in a Drake and with 200dps I couldn't kill it even with faction ammo. When to restock only for someone to come and kill him and take the loot.
My point is isn't high sec sites supposed to be the way to let new players get into things, is having a enemy that takes 400dps (do I'm told) to kill a good way of getting people into things? It seems unfair if you can only complete the site with a heavy assault cruiser.
it takes me about 12 minutes to clear the whole encounter with 3x garde II and rails vexor. That actually seems reasonable design to me, presents the new player with a training and fitting target, doesn't waste too much of an old players time. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1744
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 00:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I use heavy missiles so I have just 214 dps from CN kinetic missiles with CN inferno I get about 165 dps. I didn't have drones fitted at the time.
I'd fix that if I were you; heavies on anything but a Tengu are lackluster at the moment and Tengus can't get into 4/10s, so....
Regardless, I'm seeing 361 CN Scourge/241 CN Inferno with heavies and we're back to a question of skills. I'd expect anyone that can reasonably fly a ship to get ~80% of the damage I can eke out at minimum, so there's room for improvement there.
Also: always fit drones! Even if you're only getting 40 DPS out of them, that's a potential 20% increase from where you're sitting right now -- and that translates directly into kill speed. |
Jill Chastot
Modulated Dreams
Against ALL Anomalies
56
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm almost certain tengus can enter 4/10's, even 3/10's |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
395
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:I'm almost certain tengus can enter 4/10's, even 3/10's
I'm certain you neither read patch notes, nor try what you post.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
1744
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Jill Chastot wrote:I'm almost certain tengus can enter 4/10's, even 3/10's I'm certain you neither read patch notes, nor try what you post.
This. Link. Quote:
Quote:Strategic Cruisers have been removed from the list of ships allowed to enter 3/10 and 4/10 complexes. |
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Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
99
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:49:00 -
[21] - Quote
This is a good thread. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1627
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Level 4 missions are going to really suck with only 214 DPS as well. and they are in HS.
This is less of a noob in HS issue and more of your fit must suck issue.
I was getting better dps back when i was a wee lad capsuleer in my LVL 3 myrmidon. no I do my level 4 missions in my 490 dps navy faction raven but you can't fit them through a 4/10 DED site gate so you have to use the drake and I only have the drake at level 3
Using Navy faction and 490 dps in the same sentence highlights the issue. Keep training those skills
Keep in mind a 4/10 is going to be the hardest HS site you can run before pulling on your big boy pants and jumping into the shark infested waters that is lowsec. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
83
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 09:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Level 4 missions are going to really suck with only 214 DPS as well. and they are in HS.
This is less of a noob in HS issue and more of your fit must suck issue.
I was getting better dps back when i was a wee lad capsuleer in my LVL 3 myrmidon. no I do my level 4 missions in my 490 dps navy faction raven but you can't fit them through a 4/10 DED site gate so you have to use the drake and I only have the drake at level 3 Using Navy faction and 490 dps in the same sentence highlights the issue. Keep training those skills Keep in mind a 4/10 is going to be the hardest HS site you can run before pulling on your big boy pants and jumping into the shark infested waters that is lowsec.
Ok what am I supposed to be getting? I have battleship to 3 and cruise missiles to 3 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch
Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
395
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 09:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Level 4 missions are going to really suck with only 214 DPS as well. and they are in HS.
This is less of a noob in HS issue and more of your fit must suck issue.
I was getting better dps back when i was a wee lad capsuleer in my LVL 3 myrmidon. no I do my level 4 missions in my 490 dps navy faction raven but you can't fit them through a 4/10 DED site gate so you have to use the drake and I only have the drake at level 3 Using Navy faction and 490 dps in the same sentence highlights the issue. Keep training those skills Keep in mind a 4/10 is going to be the hardest HS site you can run before pulling on your big boy pants and jumping into the shark infested waters that is lowsec. Ok what am I supposed to be getting? I have battleship to 3 and cruise missiles to 3
my vexor does something like 450 dps at 40km, a dominix for me does a little over 1000. not much doing, content is challenging until you get more skills to V. It may help to just focus on cruiser and medium weapon skills if you want to do exploration content as those are quicker to finish than battleship skills.
note that even in null I use a cruiser (Ishtar) for ratting, and a cruiser (proteus) for plexing - ie in general medium weapons and racial cruiser V gives you access to many things. |
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
895
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 15:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:I was in a Drake and with 200dps I couldn't kill it even with faction ammo.
You need to train for more damage, and/or find a better fit for that drake.
I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Tarsas Phage
Freight Club
230
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Posted - 2013.12.26 21:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Ok what am I supposed to be getting? I have battleship to 3 and cruise missiles to 3
Dear lord. Any skill worth training should be trained to 4 as a rule of thumb. There are very few exceptions where lower than 4 is still acceptable. Then there are the obvious ones which should be trained further to 5.
Basically, if you're training your ship and its relevant support skils only to 3, you're cheating yourself out of a lot of capability. |
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