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MissEvil
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:23:00 -
[1]
...are really annoying me. Ore thieving is part of the game as it was originally intended. Yes, people call me scum and lowlife, however at least im not whining to CCP to patch it (ive only heard rumours that this will happen). Thats right, you don't like the rules so your getting them rewritten, now that is cowardly! If anyone is lowlife it is you lot who can't simply live with the fact that this is just a game!
I think Concord police are right to protect thieves, and not let our 'victims' fight back. If little Johnny at school ever stole another childs football, would the teachers stand by whilst they witness the other child cave his skull in? No! Revenge (in the form of murder)is just as much illegal as other crime.
I hope CCP don't cave into pressure from these people who whine about their precious ore. Its not because it will make my profession of stealing harder, yet it will show people that if they moan enough they will always be able to get the rules bent to suit them, to me that is just pathetic  |
Elan DoChin
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:34:00 -
[2]
Even though I've never taken ore left in a container, I have snagged unattended pirate loot. If I see a container that's not full of ore, and there's not a ship to be seen, I snag it. Hey, a little tech goes a long way sometimes.
I mean, I know it's a pain to have ore stolen. So, I don't do it personally. That's not to say that I disagree with MissEvil though.
I figure if you leave the container unattended, then if it's not there when you get back that's the way it goes.
That's part of the game. And, personally, I figure it's a pretty fair estimate of what would happen IRL. I mean, you're out in space. Nobody's within 10 million miles of you. You come across a container loaded with minerals, equipment, whatever. Nobody's name is on it, it's no a secure container. Well, it's gone.
Same thing. You're walking down the street, you find a wallet with $1000 in it. Well, someone else could've just as easily picked it up, taken the money and dropped the wallet. Here's your ID sir, sorry no there was no money. Now, again, I don't do this personally. But, I'm sure other people might, just might, be overtaken by the temptation.
So, I figure if it ain't guarded, it should be fair game.
As life goes by, I often consider the benefits of government-enforced sterilisation. |
dalman
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:35:00 -
[3]
People who starts thread after thread about something like this are...
... are really annoying me.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:43:00 -
[4]
Why not up the cargo space on the indi's, make them realy slow, I mean realy slow. that way it would take a shed load of ore to fill them but compensate that with a slow speed.
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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MissEvil
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:47:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
People who starts thread after thread about something like this are...
... are really annoying me.
Did i hold a gun to your head and make you read it? |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:49:00 -
[6]
can we just declare ore thieves and spawn camping and lag dead threads in need of closing? or make a Top 10 issues we want dealt with voting option so we can avoid USELESS debate over these things, a little is fine, but this is OVERKILL.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.09.08 14:51:00 -
[7]
Quote:
Why not up the cargo space on the indi's, make them realy slow, I mean realy slow. that way it would take a shed load of ore to fill them but compensate that with a slow speed.
This won't solve anything. I've seen haulers not even having to use their jets, due to some quality bookmark placement.
The problem is: people are too lazy to set up a secure mining op, so they mine into jet-cans.
If they get their ore stolen, I have no sympathy at all.
I believe the official response is available in the support forums. Or somewhere. Not that it matters, everyone ignored it last time it was posted in an ore thief thread. And the time before that, when it was posted in... an ore thief thread. And, oddly enough, the time before that, too.
how many fricking ore thief threads do we need? This is becoming rather annoying.
If it carries on, I'll probably just go around holding people's ore to ransom, or just blowing it up.
I wish people would stop begging CCP for fixes to this problem, which is one of exploiting jet-cans to mine ridiculous sums of ore.
The fix is easy: get a load of secure cans. Mine into secure cans. The ore thieves can do *nothing* about this, and will therefore not bother hanging around.
once they have left, people can go back to their daft, unsafe methods.
*note: I mine occasionally. I mine into a jet-can. I mine ridiculous amounts of ore. But I do it in a system where I can blow the *******s off anyone who tries to steal it. And should someone steal/destroy it, I'll add them to the ****list. I *WILL NOT* come to the forums begging CCP to break a fully working system.
.
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Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:02:00 -
[8]
Quote:
can we just declare ore thieves and spawn camping and lag dead threads in need of closing? or make a Top 10 issues we want dealt with voting option so we can avoid USELESS debate over these things, a little is fine, but this is OVERKILL.
How about we just hijack this thread and use it to talk about the clear lack of burger joints in space. 2 Months I am starving.
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Jernau Gurgeh
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:16:00 -
[9]
I can sense a post from the Big Bang Burger Bar coming any time now...
There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not. |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:19:00 -
[10]
I think gambling and burgers could be a positive combo, especially wih a pinch of drugs
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:23:00 -
[11]
I was thinking snort more than pinch!
And a few outlets to relieve the munchies.
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:25:00 -
[12]
Personally I think they should allow huge station/malls to be created with corporate shops... etc etc.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:38:00 -
[13]
You would never see the ladies though, they would spend half their time shopping. Corperations would go bust trying to keep up with their spending.
Maybe I should look into starting a credit company.
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:54:00 -
[14]
yeah, you could offer newbies high interest credit card context just outside the university of Caille, get em in debt young !!! :)
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Darion MacVale
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Posted - 2003.09.08 15:56:00 -
[15]
Quote:
yeah, you could offer newbies high interest credit card context just outside the university of Caille, get em in debt young !!! :)
*mutters something about his college days and large credit card bills...*
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Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:00:00 -
[16]
Quote:
yeah, you could offer newbies high interest credit card context just outside the university of Caille, get em in debt young !!! :)
Then just offer more and more until I have to send the repo man to take their Apoc when they can't keep up repayments!!!
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:05:00 -
[17]
My repo guy is my alt "Tony Capriani"
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Alexia Te'Len
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:09:00 -
[18]
I'll keep doing it, regardless of any counter-measures brought in.
I've got nothing to lose from it, and everything to gain.
If I get attacked/retaliated against? I'll just run. Simple.
Cowardly? Yes. But at least I can admit that.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:12:00 -
[19]
Quote:
...are really annoying me. Ore thieving is part of the game as it was originally intended.
Actually, since unsecure cargo containers were never meant to be used to hold ore during mining operations, it's not possible that ore stealing was an "intended" part of the game.
Try again.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:14:00 -
[20]
we were talking about burgers and scamming students, please stay on topic.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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ChironV
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:23:00 -
[21]
Well ore thieves could be considered part of the game. A good analogy would be buying a burger paid for with your hard work and leaving it on the table to get some mustard. When you come back to your table you find a 2/3rds eaten. Ore thieves are like that. Rude uncivilized lazy bums who parasite off the rest of us. It is interesting to watch as true nature of some people shines through for everyone to see.  So we now have to keep our burgers in lock boxes.  C'est la vie.
________________________________________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:31:00 -
[22]
I disagree, its more like you leave a box of gold lying around in the street
You go to get your car two blocks away as the gold is too heavy to carry.
you come back and people have jacked it.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:34:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Mynobe Soletae on 08/09/2003 16:42:36
Yeah, the standard acusation of every exploiter out there: "Carebears are whining to the devs to change the rules."
As far as I know, the devs are extremely resistant to any suggestion they DON'T agree with. And if there's something that THEY feel has to change, they usually change it without asking the players, or even in spite of player requests to leave as it is. Look at MWD.
So you feel you should continue to be able to steal ore. Good for you. I feel you shouldn't, so easily, and without repercussions. However, I did NOT go writing petitions and whining to the devs about it. I'd assume they made their own mind about the issue. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:45:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Yeah, the standard acusation of every exploiter out there: "Carebears are whining to the devs to change the rules."
As far as I know, the devs are extremely resistant to any suggestion they DON'T agree with. And if there's something that THEY feel has to change, they usually change it without asking the players, or even in spite of player requests to leave as it is. Look at MWD.
So you feel you should continue to be able to steal ore. Good for you. I feel you shouldn't, so easily, and without repercussions. However, I did NOT go writing petitions and whining to the devs about it. I'd assume they made their own mind about the issue. So stop calling me a coward, b**ch!
I just find that the solution offered, to flag a person opening a can that's not theirs as criminal, to be pointless. Given who we're talking about, high sec miners, none will have the firepower to stop an ore thief.
The person won't be flagged until they open the container. Which gives you about 3 seconds to stop them before they're underway (assuming they're slow). Warp scramble them and they escape under normal power (kitted for speed my Mammoth hits 800m/s) Warp Scramble/Webify? Maybe, but don't jump the gun else Concord will take care of you.
And then after all that, who has the firepower left to actually do damage after filling their turrets with lasers and their drone bays with Harvesters? Rupture, Typhoon, Tempest? Maybe a Thorax if he can recall his drones mining fastt enough and launch before the logout timer lets them escape.
n00b traps, such as telling some n00b he can loot the cans from low sec mining with a few booby traps, are another story.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:48:00 -
[25]
Daesdemona, it's not in the street. It's out in the woods where you've dug it up. Out of the way of innocent bystanders really.
The act of ore theft is premeditated. You have to jump in a ship specifically configured for the purpose, and you have to actively search the belts for containers. |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:50:00 -
[26]
Ok, still, would you leave your gold out knowing that the woods are not safe?
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:56:00 -
[27]
If you ever went to bandcamp kids would commit suicide.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:56:00 -
[28]
Ya and this one time.. at band camp... I like tried to steal some ore and then I laughed at some afk miner..
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Mynobe Soletae
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Posted - 2003.09.08 16:58:00 -
[29]
Jash, the problem isn't firepower, it's the faction loss. Take the faction loss away, and most people will reconsider the situation and bring guns.
The lone miner won't have the firepower, yes. A small team of a few miners will, if they fit one person for firepower and the rest for ew.
You can then argue that in that case the ore thief will not even bother, and will go in search of easier prey. GOOD! Functions as a deterrent. That's the point.
Currently ore thieves act with impunity, because of the faction situation. |
Marcus Grisbius
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Posted - 2003.09.08 17:01:00 -
[30]
Ore thieving is part of the intended use of the jettison cans although not jet-can mining wasn't planned on. The idea of the jet-can was that it was junk that was tossed out. This means that it was junk and left as such just as someone could pull something out of a trash can. Anyone would be able to open it up and take it if they wanted before it explodes. So, though ore stealing wasn't specifically envisioned, the result of the action was just as it was designed. Jet-can = risk of losing ore.
I also like the thought of having shopping malls. 
Certainty of death... little chance of success... what are we waiting for? - Gimli, son of Gloinn |
Daesdemona
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Posted - 2003.09.08 17:03:00 -
[31]
concord needs to hire privates to police the minefields.
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Bart: "Do you even have a job any more?"
Homer: "I think its obvious that I Don't"
----------------------------------------------- |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.08 17:15:00 -
[32]
Quote:
Jash, the problem isn't firepower, it's the faction loss. Take the faction loss away, and most people will reconsider the situation and bring guns.
The lone miner won't have the firepower, yes. A small team of a few miners will, if they fit one person for firepower and the rest for ew.
You can then argue that in that case the ore thief will not even bother, and will go in search of easier prey. GOOD! Functions as a deterrent. That's the point.
Currently ore thieves act with impunity, because of the faction situation.
Who are you kidding? The nature of the beast is that every single availible person, every single turret slot carry be sucking down ore. You go through the bother of having a someone for security in high sec space...why bother mining in high sec space?
Take that group to low sec space (.1), let the security deal with the npc pirates and mine more valuable ore. You'll get more than enough isk to buy the low end stuff from n00bs and solo miners locally, cover up to you nox requirements and still have isk to spare.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2003.09.08 17:41:00 -
[33]
The whole thing with ore thieves..
The reason it's frowned upon is this.. The type of people that actually do it, they tend to be the type of people you don't like in everyday life.. They talk a lot of senseless smack, they persist to be annoying, they don't understand that no means no, ect, ect, ect, and most of all they try and justify taking the ore like it's your fault for "throwing it away". 
Anyways.. Here's what you do all you newbies.. Train scout drone operation, get yourself a warrior drone (as many as your ship can carry), go out and mine in a 0.6, and use the drone to fend off NPC attacks.
Ore thieves are skirred to go out in lower security area's, so you should be safe. 
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Elynsynos
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:11:00 -
[34]
*note: I mine occasionally. I mine into a jet-can. I mine ridiculous amounts of ore. But I do it in a system where I can blow the *******s off anyone who tries to steal it. And should someone steal/destroy it, I'll add them to the ****list. I *WILL NOT* come to the forums begging CCP to break a fully working system.
Exactly, you whiners that dont like your ore stolen should either move to .4 space or use secure cans. I mine in a jet can, and im perfectly willing to blow away any ore thief that looks into it regardless of the security hit. Yes i keep a gun on my ship when i mine solo. Yes if you stick around long enough I can kill your indy with it.
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Koda
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:37:00 -
[35]
* sigh
/gets out the bat and takes another swing at the deceased equine/
Mining into a jet can has risks. Accept it, buy a secure container (or a bunch), or don't do it.
Kit your cruiser out with cargo expanders, set an instadock book mark and mine your heinie off.
--------------
Share the love in the SNIGG Forums
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:44:00 -
[36]
I have no respect for can stealers.
A real ore thief is a Prey miner. I respect those thieves because it takes guts to be such a thief instead of relying on CONCORD in high sec space to protect you, but being a Prey Miner takes effort, patience and planning...
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:46:00 -
[37]
Many people use some real life example like if you left your wallet on the street or your keys in your car. But those are far from wrong. They are not the same. Your Wallet has your info and ID on it. Your car is IDed somewhere as yours. Taking those two thing that aren't yours is a hostile act.
Using a jet can for mining is more like using the atm and dumping the money on the side of the steet as you collect it. The game just decides to put it all in a container. Now that the money is on the side of the steet anybody could take it. Even a cop could take it and nothing happen because it is now not a hostile act. especailly if you walk away from it to get your car(indy) to collect it in. Don't be surprised if it isn't there when you get back and its your fault for not putting it in something that Identified it as your.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:46:00 -
[38]
Here is what I think.
It is not that ORE THIEFS are intended in eve. It is Eve allows you to choose whatever you want to become and Theif is a allowed profession.
AFK miners and Carebear miners should be nerfed as well. To force them to get really earn there money and go out in the rest of the world. Ore Thiefs right now are the only means of doing this.
I see only the AFK miners and carebear miners crying about this anyway.
Newbs too but I don't think you should be able to steal from them.
I can see if the can is sitting right next to you when they come and steal ore as a hostile act. But if they were to impliment an idea like this I would make it so that as soon as you leave the belt and the can is no longer owned by you. That would fix the problem.
Or make it so Cops come and kill the thief only for players that are less then a week old.
CCP can't make everyone happy. If they totally kill Ore thiefs abilities. Other people will start whinning that AFK miners have it way to easy.
No if this Idea happened in game with no nerfing of the AFK/Carebear miners as well. I would start a petition agianst it, and would have alot of support. More so then the abillity to kill ore thiefs in 1.0 space.
If you want to kill ore thiefs then go to .4 and below otherwise buy secure cans.
If they really wanted to get rid of ore thiefs they would have made secure contains bottomless or expandable with how much ore you put in it. But they don't. Why, because of AFK/Carebear miners.
It would have been too easy to kill off that profession al long time ago. But EVE says you can become anything you want.
If they want to nerf that profession more. Then they should raise the the ability for Pirates(Neg sec rating players) to come into empire space and put in less cops. Or lower the amount of ore in empire space, make it real easy for a belt to disapear from over mining, so easy that it forces players to go out further.
Or make it so players over a month are not alowed to enter .8 and above belts.
Or Keep it the way it is.
I have seen Battleships in .8 systems striping belts clean leaving nothing for newb miners.
If you notice everyone goes to those systems to mine veld and other easy ore and then go out further and just mine the rest. They should go back to the old way of refilling the roid.
If you got to the .8 systems and above there is hardly any ore. I fyou go to the .2 belts for jaspet there is hardly any jaspet, Kernite, omber ect... and HUGE Veld and Scorite roids. So big you cann't even get close enough to mine them!!!
They Nerf Fighters. They Nerf Pirates. They Nerf PvP. I think they should Nerf Miners.
I heard a about a hacking skill that would allow you to hack into a secure can. That totally contradics what this poster is saying.
I say go ahead and allow this to happen. Then you will so pirates in Battleships coming in to steal your ore, go ahead and fire on them then. They would do it becuase they want your ore, but to start a fight so they can kill you for free.
I am not against AFK Miners that are newbies. I am against afk miners that are striping the belts in newb land.
I have another Char(unnamed) that ore steals. I don't REPEAT don't steal from the newby players. I see a guy in a Thorax mining with an unsecure can next to him. I go up and steal from it. And if they make that skill to allow players to hack secure cans I will make sure he gets that one too.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:47:00 -
[39]
Just think about it a sec... They just finished with the adding of player anchored objects in space from stuff you buy like unsecure and secure containers on the market. opening those or firing on the other objects like sentry guns and such that are also player own and anchored will be a hostile act.
BUT OPENING JETISONED CONTAINERS WILL NEVER BE A HOSTILE ACT.
so if you go and buy a unsecure container off the market and anchor it in space you will notice that your picture is in the info window of the object. They are fixing it so another player opening it will be a hostile act.
BUT AGAIN OPENING JETISONED CONTAINERS WILL NEVER BE A HOSTILE ACT.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.09.08 19:52:00 -
[40]
Quote:
Many people use some real life example like if you left your wallet on the street or your keys in your car. But those are far from wrong. They are not the same. Your Wallet has your info and ID on it. Your car is IDed somewhere as yours. Taking those two thing that aren't yours is a hostile act.
Using a jet can for mining is more like using the atm and dumping the money on the side of the steet as you collect it.
Very true; but even this analogy doesn't go far enough. The important point is that EVE law is not the same as US/UK/whereveryouhappentolive law, and in EVE, picking up someone's wallet that they left on the street, would not be a crime.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 20:01:00 -
[41]
Using an Usecure can is not even close to useing a wallet. In a wallet (hopefully) you have your ID or some sort of Identification.....
Ore Theives usaully come up behind you and take the ore from the can. If it was like a wallet it would like picking there pocket which is a crime!!
BUT, using and jet can, not to confuse with unsecure cans(which will be anchored and if opened could be considered a hostile act) is like taking the money out of the ATM and instead of puting it into your wallet where it would be safe, you put it in a box on the ground behind you or 5 feet from you.
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 20:09:00 -
[42]
There is a rumor that opening someones can in space will be a hostile act and you will get to fire on them. If you read my post before this one you will notice that it does not include jet cans.
There are 3 types of cans.
Jet cans - which are formed when you jettason something. The only reason a can is formed is because they don't want the mods flying in space like that, and is why they are bottomless.
unsecure cans - Which you can buy and are not bottomless.
Secure cans - You know what they do.
They just finished fixing achored items, which puts your identity on the object you anchored.... when you jetison something, like ore or a mod, it is not anchoring it. Now when you jetison a can, either non-secure or secure it is now called anchoring and if you notice your info shows up in the cans info window. They are working on maybe making opening or fireing on these cans and other anchored items a hostile act.
opening someone elses Jet Cans will never be a hostile act and if you use them people can steal from them.
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DJvGalen
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Posted - 2003.09.08 20:13:00 -
[43]
Quote:
so if you go and buy a unsecure container off the market and anchor it in space you will notice that your picture is in the info window of the object. They are fixing it so another player opening it will be a hostile act.
Have you ever requested info on a jetison can ?
It has the same ownership info so maybe, just maybe they will implement the hostile act when you take from a jetison can...
I don't care if they implement it or not, I mine below 0.5.
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CCP please fix your patch so I can play with my corpmates again soon. |
Anara Valencia
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Posted - 2003.09.08 21:13:00 -
[44]
I think CCP should make it a hostile act to take the contents out of another playerÆs container.
I'm sure that most of the players have no issues with dispensing their own justice.
-Anara
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.08 21:34:00 -
[45]
I think AFK miners need to be nerfed.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.09.08 21:51:00 -
[46]
Quote:
I think CCP should make it a hostile act to take the contents out of another playerÆs container.
I'm sure that most of the players have no issues with dispensing their own justice.
-Anara
Have you ever shot at another person?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Torath
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Posted - 2003.09.08 22:57:00 -
[47]
Back onto subject.
If there are any students out there who need to borrow any money prior to the opening of the first gambling dens then get in touch.
You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
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Kalhan
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Posted - 2003.09.10 16:23:00 -
[48]
This has some good points too.
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