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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |

Ryan Cady
CIA Gaming
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Too many times have I been in my stealth bomber and been warped to the edge of a mobile warp disruptor, when I select warp at 100km resulting in a loss of my ship.
Frankly, I don't understand why this happens. Does this happen to anyone else?
The situation explained more clearly:
A group sets up a gate camp and has a mobile warp disruptor within 10km of the gate.
I warp to the gate at 100km to scout the gate. I actually end up warping right to the edge of the bubble 10km from gate.
Does anyone else feel this is a bit ridiculous? Is there a logical reason for this happening? Please tell me!
Thanks! |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7913
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this. The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

Ryan Cady
CIA Gaming
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this. The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies.
Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1011

|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.
Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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Grey Azorria
Federation Industries
404
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Posted - 2013.12.29 03:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bouncing off celestials can work too, depends on how smart the guys who it all up are. Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Sometimes when I post, I look at my sig and wish that I'd follow my own god damned advice. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18589
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this. The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies. Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km It would rather defeat the entire purpose of setting up such a trap if they could be so trivially circumvented.
The game already offers a means of doing what you're trying to do: warp in at a different angle. The campers then have to find a balance between finding a spot that covers more angles (meaning it's closer to the gate) and giving you quick access to that gate (since you arrive much closer to it and can just burn through). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1011

|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grey Azorria wrote:Bouncing off celestials can work too. Sometimes people leave nice tasty traps (more bubbles) either in the direction of the celestials or at the celestials themselves. Directional scan is your friend. ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7913
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dscan won't tell you what directions the bubbles cover. Only how many there are and what types. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
329
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Dscan won't tell you what directions the bubbles cover. Only how many there are and what types. Technically you could determine if there's a bubble between you and the gate with very precise uses of dscan, right?
As to the OP, this is part of how bubbles work. Look up "drag bubbles" for further examples of intentionally using this technique. |

Ryan Cady
CIA Gaming
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.
Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.
If I haven't been able to visit that system before I couldn't make a bookmark.
Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think.
I just don't think it makes much sense. |

Julius Priscus
306
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:This isn't new. Everyone who's flown in nullsec for a while is aware of this. The logical reasoning is that it allows you to set traps for your enemies. Well yeah that's the logic, but shouldn't I be able to warp in at a distance? I just think it's kinda crazy that even though I select 100km I still warp in at 10km
Its designed to catch you as you come out of warp on grid either by stopping you before the warp destination or by dragging you past your destination.
only way around it is...cloaky nullified t3 or a interceptor.
-»\_(pâä)_/-»-á Sup cracka ! |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4318
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.
Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely. If I haven't been able to visit that system before I couldn't make a bookmark. Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think. I just don't think it makes much sense.
Guy wants an easily circumvented mechanic nerfed because cirucumventing it is too much effort.
This user won the forums on 18/09/2013, then lost on 18/12/2013. |

Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Were bubbles initially introduced working like this? Was it some technical limitation or intentional? |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1011

|
Posted - 2013.12.29 03:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ryan Cady wrote:Also, some systems don't have celestials that offer better angles. Loke Doril! Those happen to be good systems for camping!
Ryan Cady wrote:It really wouldn't make it THAT much easier to get around these things if this mechanic was changed. I don't think.
If you could land on the gate (or anywhere you want) with 100% efficiency, it would be no harder to get away than it is in lowsec or hisec. Heard of the Cloak-MWD trick?
ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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Logan Revelore
Minimal Solutions Aurora Irae
16
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:If your line of warp has a bubble along it, you warp right to the bubble instead of to the point you actually wanted to warp to. It's a feature of mobile warp disruptors (and warp bubbles in general), which lets people better lie traps in 0.0.
Create a "tactical" safe spot some 200 km or so from the gate in a random direction to be able to scout the gate safely.
Tbh, that's a lame mechanic. I'm all for people being able to gank other people, but when we start to break down logic to enable people to do this, well that annoys me. |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1011

|
Posted - 2013.12.29 04:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Tbh, that's a lame mechanic. I'm all for people being able to gank other people, but when we start to break down logic to enable people to do this, well that annoys me.
So, spaceships flying through space-molasses, with FTL drives that go through planets, firing a variety of implausible scifi-weapons are all logical, but a field that can yank you out of position is where you draw the line? ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18590
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 04:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Markku Laaksonen wrote:Were bubbles initially introduced working like this? Was it some technical limitation or intentional? It would be technically far simple if they didn't work like this. It's entirely intentional that they do what they do, although as always, the creative use is not something they ever design for. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Pinky Hops
Spartan's DNA Apex.
181
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 04:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
The solution is bookmarks.
Lots and lots of well placed bookmarks.
Back in the day the creation of bookmarks was a mandatory skill you would teach to newbies on day 1 because you could not warp to 0 on gates automatically.
This sucked, of course. But despite this, the importance of bookmarks remains a central theme.
Personally I think the newbie tutorials aught to cover bookmarking to the extent of bubbles/tacticals/etc. It's a rather vague mechanic unless you have experienced it -- which is exactly what tutorials are supposed to do. Force experiences to underline the importance of various mechanics. |

Markku Laaksonen
EVE University Ivy League
294
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 04:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It would be technically far simple if they didn't work like this. It's entirely intentional that they do what they do, although as always, the creative use is not something they ever design for.
Oh yeah, not arguing one way or the other about it. I understand it's all from a game play balance perspective. I was just curious about the original implementation. |

ErrorRon
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
119
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 04:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
A way to check gates that arent within scan range or have any celestials in scan range is by draining your capacitor so you can't make the full warp. Initiate warp and cancel over and over til your cap is dried up enough to not be able to make the full warp. That way you'll warp most of the way there, but not the whole way. Stopping you before you hit grid and making it able to scan.
Also leave bubble mechanics alone pls thx Daktaklakpak. may or may not be recruiting. Join ingame channel 'We're Bad' and find out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtItWL6GfSM CCP Gargant - -áDev of my heart. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Logan Revelore wrote:Tbh, that's a lame mechanic. I'm all for people being able to gank other people, but when we start to break down logic to enable people to do this, well that annoys me. Nobody's forcing you to play in nullsec. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints Circle-Of-Two
689
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gate in range of celestial. Warp to celestial. Overview to everything. Dscan. Gate not in range of celestial. Dump cap. Partial warp to gate. Overview to everything. Dscan. No bubbles. Go. Bubbles, no drones/cans. Approach from celestial/nonaligned safe. Bubbles, cans, drones, ships, find some other way. |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
941
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
ErrorRon wrote:A way to check gates that arent within scan range or have any celestials in scan range is by draining your capacitor so you can't make the full warp. Initiate warp and cancel over and over til your cap is dried up enough to not be able to make the full warp. That way you'll warp most of the way there, but not the whole way. Stopping you before you hit grid and making it able to scan.
Also leave bubble mechanics alone pls thx hehe, i love bubbles, hearing N3 guys half drunk and/or asleep in fleets roaming bitching and whining about the bubbles all around their space and getting stuck.
i remember, one guy was screaming and ranting for a good 20 minutes wondering waht kind of idiot puts several dozen bubbles all around a gate out to 250km, how they must be some kind of sadistic idiot, yadda yadda, towards the end i reminded him, that HE was the one who put the bubbles out the night before.
sometimes i miss null, sometimes not. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
The only thing I hate about bubbles is how they look when you have a dozen or so of them on top of one another.
Seriously, you can't see anything in that ****. I doubt that's intended. If CCP could fix that all would be good. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1018

|
Posted - 2013.12.29 05:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only thing I hate about bubbles is how they look when you have a dozen or so of them on top of one another.
Seriously, you can't see anything in that ****. I doubt that's intended. If CCP could fix that all would be good. I haven't seen a pile of bubbles like that since their graphical change. Does it still impair visibility? ISD LackOfFaith Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISD_LackOfFaith on Twitter |
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
ISD LackOfFaith wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:The only thing I hate about bubbles is how they look when you have a dozen or so of them on top of one another.
Seriously, you can't see anything in that ****. I doubt that's intended. If CCP could fix that all would be good. I haven't seen a pile of bubbles like that since their graphical change. Does it still impair visibility? I never noticed it impairing visibility until after the change. For each bubble you have to look through it gets brighter and brighter, to the point where if you're looking through 5+ bubbles it's so ridiculously bright you can't see anything, not to mention it puts a lot of stress on my computer.
Individual bubbles look great, but when they're stacked it's absolutely horrific. I'll get a screenshot here soon. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
945
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fly a Strategic Cruiser with the warp bubble nullification subsystems and you won't have to worry about bubbles. Or for a cheaper more infuriating option to those with the bubbles, fly an interceptor.  |

ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
228
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Erm, this thread seems to have evolved into a "how to bypass bubbles" thread, but the point I think the OP was making was that his ship is being influenced by bubbles, even though the entirety of his actual flightpath was outside the range of the bubble.
If I've got this correct, a T2 large bubble anchored at 10 KM from a gate would affect an area up to 50 KM from the gate, assuming it's lined up between the 2 gates. If you warp to 100 KM, you haven't reached it yet to be affected by it.
I'm wondering if the server calculations are being done in the wrong order, i.e.
- Draw a line between Source and Destination gate
- Check for existence of bubbles. If so, mark ship as being drag-able.
- THEN check for modifiers to destination (e.g. -100 KM)
The destination is not the gate! So why is the server thinking there's a bubble in his flightpath?
I'm only guessing, but I thought I read somewhere that anything warp-related is calculated in advance, and not done per server-tick. Is that true?
If that is the case, I'm surprised none of you have complained that you can't anchor a bubble after someone has initiated warp. Can someone verify that that is the case, or do you still get dragged out after warp is initiated (assuming there were no bubbles when you started)?
Meh. |

James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 06:49:00 -
[29] - Quote
ASadOldGit wrote:Erm, this thread seems to have evolved into a "how to bypass bubbles" thread, but the point I think the OP was making was that his ship is being influenced by bubbles, even though the entirety of his actual flightpath was outside the range of the bubble. Doesn't matter. What matters is that the bubble lies along the vector of his flight path, and that it's on grid with the end-point of his warp.
ASadOldGit wrote:If I've got this correct, a T2 large bubble anchored at 10 KM from a gate would affect an area up to 50 KM from the gate, assuming it's lined up between the 2 gates. If you warp to 100 KM, you haven't reached it yet to be affected by it. No, that's just the area of its warp disruption. The drag/catch effects of a bubble extend at least a few hundred km outward. I'm not entirely sure exactly how far it is. It may be the entire grid, or a bit shorter, or even a bit further.
ASadOldGit wrote:If that is the case, I'm surprised none of you have complained that you can't anchor a bubble after someone has initiated warp. Can someone verify that that is the case, or do you still get dragged out after warp is initiated (assuming there were no bubbles when you started)? If there was no bubble when warp was initiated, then it has no drag/catch effect. Conversely, if I initiate warp with a bubble at the other end which subsequently pops/goes down or whatnot, it still drags/catches me when I exit warp. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |

ASadOldGit
School of Applied Knowledge
228
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 07:05:00 -
[30] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: (some interesting stuff)
Thanks - I actually learnt something.
I think that's probably what he's complaining about, though. The calculations are "highly simplified", and not done in "real-time" (i.e. server-ticks). Understandable for a developer to not want to over-complicate things in the early days, though, but it would be nice if basic mechanics like that were reviewed every so often (but perhaps they are, and no changes were deemed necessary).
I wasn't around at the time, but has "warp to a distance" not always been an option? i.e. it always used to be "warp to 15 KM", then they added "warp to zero" and "warp to other distances" after bookmark-spam?
At what point were bubbles introduced? I'm just wondering if they inherited an unintended/unexpected mechanic.
Edit: it would be nice if the module description would mention its sphere of influence, not just scramble range. Meh. |
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