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Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mining in Eve in a nutshell. That's PvE in general. Gathering (i.e. farming of that ice.) I wonder if CCP ever plans to make it more entertaining and interactive?
So far we've got afkers/botters/napping-at-keyboard-people vs Erotica 1 fellowship and the likes. Then you get the forums trashed with threads by the gankers and the gankees. Pretty much on regular basis. Some may say you need to feed amoebas to the plankton.
I guess even winning position of an independent observer can be depressing.
Anyone else doesn't wanna touch the PvE content with 10-feet pole? Crappy PvE frightens your new customers, but most players learn Eve basics starting with PvE.
I see the standard GD forum response is going to show up as usual: "But Eve is all about PvP." Then why does PvE exist? Make this world of tanks in space then.
What we have now is the "sandboxy" highsec with its reeking cat litter in it. That's where the most of the players and/or their alts are located.
Could we get it refreshed, pretty please? Maybe for the next Christmas?
P.S. Filled out the survey, but it makes me wonder how many players participated.
In Before: "eve is dying" - bs, it's been dying for too long, could it be undead now? Can we add vampires and werewolves and call it WoD maybe? "eve is all about pvp" - you are the writer, not the reader, gotcha. "stealthy/not-so-stealthy nerf hisec/nullsec thread" - if "nerf" were to mean make it work - sure, why not? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
18590
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Refreshed how? It's received tons of tweaks and additions of the last couple of years.
Also, yes, it is indeed a problem that new players learn EVE through PvE since it means they don't actually learn anything about EVE. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
EI Digin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1630
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Here you go. |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
191
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Really does surprise me that the backbone of nigh everything in the game is so well crap tbh (i really don't like using crap it sounds soo harsh)
I picked mining as a career (yeah sad i know but well some numpty has to do it), an being new an not understanding much yet is exhumer an T2 strip miners the best i can hope for solo? i mean cmon i thought this game had been out 10 year an the best it has to offer a wee rock smash is a T2 barge for solo work
A wee T3 with mining subsystems would be a better goal tbh :P
ach tbh i don't mind mining as it is, i would have liked a longer skill train an more ship choice i guess but ultimately i don't know what they could do to change it |
Bel Tika
Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's Not.Safe.For.Work.
191
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
haha i bookmarked that, give me something to do along with my ship spins |
Riot Girl
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2233
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
I guess the only real solution is to remove all solo PvE content from high sec. Oh god. |
Seven Koskanaiken
Sons Of Saints Circle-Of-Two
689
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Posted - 2013.12.29 04:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
If the PvE is crap then blowing someone up means more because you know they have to go back to the horrible grind. If you were sending them back to have fun, that wouldn't really ruin their day, would it.
"It is not enough to succeed. Others must fail"
-- Gore Vidal |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
318
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Posted - 2013.12.29 05:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
uh-huh... |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
8680
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Posted - 2013.12.29 05:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Go on......
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Jill Chastot
Oath of the Forsaken Ragnarok.
86
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Posted - 2013.12.29 05:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pve is horrible because min/maxing it is the best way to earn the most isk, (within reason baring officer **** fits) There's no challenge to mining or following set triggers in missions, so there's no variation or difficulty.
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Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
941
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Posted - 2013.12.29 05:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jill Chastot wrote:Pve is horrible because min/maxing it is the best way to earn the most isk, (within reason baring officer **** fits) There's no challenge to mining or following set triggers in missions, so there's no variation or difficulty.
oh theres plenty fo variation in mining, why, i think people have attempted to gank me with no less than 10 separate ****-fit caracals.
apparently they dont expect a full-tank retriever, JUST strong enough to laugh at them in a 0.5 when they try and gank.
though since ive started mining in lowsec, its usually safer. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.12.29 06:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
And have you just rewarded me with bottomless cookie jar!? Now I can reward myself with any amount of cookies I feel I deserve! Wow... I's like a genie lamp. I can have as many wishes as I wish! I can dupe cookies! Absolutely! The downside is too many cookies might inflate my "sig" too much so what I am going to do is get back into the kitchen and start stacking 'em in the girl scout cookie boxes! You guys are in trouble! Massive, absolutely massive, market crash is imminent
/cookiegasmoff
p.s. wooooowew |
Logical 101
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
76
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Posted - 2013.12.29 06:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:What we have now is the "sandboxy" highsec with its reeking cat litter in it. High sec really is the ****box of EVE, isn't it?
Honestly not sure if I'm in yet another troll thread... it's just too hard to keep up... but serious time now...
Whenever I see a thread where people genuinely complain about the general suck that is EVE PvE, no one ever mentions nullsec belts, Sansha incursions, or teaming up against Sleepers in wormholes (and doing other WH stuffs). I understand that it often seems like PvE is the last thing on CCP's mind, but what about objective-based additions like Ghost Sites?
Agreed, mining is the lowest and most basic form of PvE, because there's no "v" in it. It's just PE. Player Environment. zzz. It is a pursuit fit only for fresh meat, alts in null sec or high sec set up to bank big resources, and the sort of people who enjoy games like Euro Truck Simulator (yes, I bought that game on Steam, shut up shut up shut up).
Exploration can be a lonely and boring world to live in too, but what about being creative? Smuggle drugs. Get into manufacturing or blueprint trading or ship flipping. What about a transport career? Or how about you just bite the bullet and get set up for a life in WH where PvE opportunities are real and viable?
Not to say PvE people don't have a gripe when it comes to some of these PvE timesinks and the min/max crap and being exploited left, right and center by savvy gankers and market griefers and other HTFULOL types, but if you aren't going to get involved in PvP in this game (which is it pretty much optimized for), you either have to fight the environment or manipulate it.
Creativity is a prerequisite in this regard. And you also have to make friends. To do PvE friend things. Seriously, if all the things mentioned in the OP are boring as **** for you, it is possible to crank up the challenge. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
7914
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Posted - 2013.12.29 06:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds). Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.12.29 07:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:I guess the only real solution is to remove all solo PvE content from high sec. Nope, remove PvE content completely, force FW across the board - for NPC corporations. Reward LP/Isk for the kills, let the NPC supply limited amounts of raw materials for production(just like skill books/BPOs). We are are freaking capsuleers, demigods in capsules (versus ship crew slaves, etc.,) why do we have to the dirty work? Primitive PvE grind feels like work. It is Concord that should shoot damn rats, and we should tax it instead!
Shoot opposing faction supply lines that goes through empire systems, get shot by opposing faction militia and so on.
We could earn the Isk getting paid for the service by the republic/democracy/empire/capitalist state or pirate faction or in many case - player corporation. In the end something needs to get fixed.
Eve would be true PvP game (only about PvP) if it were designed like any FPS game, where a player from opposing team is a KOS, but the probability of PvP interaction doesn't approach zero. Eve as it is is too lenient, which is at the same time main reason many do not ever get in pvp at all - they are chronically carebear.
/wtb ship spinning counter with achievements system built in. |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.12.29 07:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds). And right before that - you have to win a mini game - hack your ship power core to able to power the strip miner up where nanites become self-aware and go on strike at the end of every cycle!
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
827
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Posted - 2013.12.29 08:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds). And right before that - you have to win a mini game - hack your ship power core to able to power the strip miner up where nanites become self-aware and go on strike at the end of every cycle! If I can strip an entire system in 10 minutes solo, sure. Because that's how fast a hacker can strip a system of sigs. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1302
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Posted - 2013.12.29 08:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds).
Pretty sure the bots wont have a single issue with this, but everyone else not so much, ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2013.12.29 08:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:If I can strip an entire system in 10 minutes solo, sure. Because that's how fast a hacker can strip a system of sigs.
Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds). Pretty sure the bots wont have a single issue with this, but everyone else not so much, Some ppl got the nanites in the sarcasm-o-meter self-aware, or that's a side effect of too much mining and hitting the head on the rocks in space
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Dave Stark
4030
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
there's actually nothing wrong with mining. is as exactly as interactive as pvp.
target things; activate modules. |
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1302
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:If I can strip an entire system in 10 minutes solo, sure. Because that's how fast a hacker can strip a system of sigs. Sentamon wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:CCP should make it so that at the end of every strip miner cycle the asteroid throws out a bunch of chunks of ore and you have to go chasing after them and tractoring them in by clicking on them before they disappear (which happens in mere seconds). Pretty sure the bots wont have a single issue with this, but everyone else not so much, Some ppl got the nanites in the sarcasm-o-meter self-aware, or that's a side effect of too much mining and hitting the head on the rocks in space
Thought it was sarcasm, but he's and Goon and by nature full of terrible, self serving ideas. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
KnowUsByTheDead
New Eden Federation Of Justice
873
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Posted - 2013.12.29 10:42:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Refreshed how? It's received tons of tweaks and additions of the last couple of years.
Also, yes, it is indeed a problem that new players learn EVE through PvE since it means they don't actually learn anything about EVE.
Thread./
Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
55
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Posted - 2013.12.29 11:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
In Eve, PvP finds YOU! |
Zerb Arus
WormSpaceWormS
70
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Posted - 2013.12.29 12:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
My thoughts on the PvE situation ... -áQuoting myself from that thread:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3539070#post3539070
Quote: PvP game or not, you have to get your gear somehow.
Some food for thought here:
Loss of efficiency As fun as PvP ops might be, PvE still is pretty much a solo thing, do it in groups and you usually loose efficiency. (if that's not a bad thing in an MMO I dont know)
Entertainment: People play games for entertainment. Since most entertaining activities cost isk, you need to replenish that somehow. Problem is GǪ most ways to do so fail massively in that regard.
Social aspect (or forever alone) People tend to play multiplayer games to play with other players. With the exception of higher class WHs and incursions, that is highly discouraged. You simply loose too much efficiency. DED plexes are flown with alts, and so are lvl 5s in many cases. And since they totally wreck standings its a no-go for many that otherwise would want to try that There is no point in sharing PvE experience with anyone in your corp let alone with a 'neighbour' corp in the same station. (that would encourage sticking together when one gets wardecced)
Random (IN-SPACE) Encounters: Back in the day when I started playing eve there was a mission that spawned some kilometres off real stargates. I struggled with that mission, someone saw it on his travels, and used that opportunity to show off his badass deimos and helped me. He even asked me for my fit and explained why hull+shiled+armor tanking isnt that great of an Idea
Nowadays the only social in-space interaction you will experience in PvE is getting ganked or ninja salvaged.
Flow of knowledge The probability of finding someone flying a Gǣfail fitGǥ or being bad at piloting as a function of playtime is is really bad in eve. Much worse than in any other multiplayer game I have tried yet. There is just no way to see other players doing their stuff, and asking GǪ wow how can you tank that in that ship, what am I doing wrong?
Deadspace Prison Amplified by warp to zero there are hardly any situations where you are not totally alone and isolated. Station / Warp / Deadspace Chats are no substitute for real interaction. Beeing mostly alone during isk-grinding is a major turn-off for many new players I meet. (im mentoring & training new players for quite a while now)
DPS is everything Specialisation is key in EvE you say? Well if you want to make isk in PvE you need a DPS-boat. In other games some like to just be the GǣhealerGǥ. Try making isk with a tech 1 logistic ship in EvE. Or tackler GǪ or ecm. Apart from very niche or high-end gameplay you wont make a penny with that.
Positive Example: Incursions Vanguards are as grindy as it gets, but are still much more fun than anything else (for many) because you are not alone in space, and you have other roles than Gǣschoot everythingGǥ. You need Fcs logistics, long/short-range, even hackers. And when it comes to HQs (when armor-fleets still had the numbers to do them) I loved them. The danger of ship loss, GǪ everything I dare-say Incursions did more against fail-fits and for pilot skill than any other PvE content in eve that I'm aware of.
I've heard FW is nice, but for those that don't want to wreck their standings its a no-go anyway (include pirate factions and I'm sold, its okay if they hate me )
PLEASE Give me something that I can do with a bunch of tech 1 cruisers + frigates+logistics and still make more money than anyone would do soloing missions. That would help soooo much with player retention in my opinion! Bonus pockets in missisons designed for fleets maybe? (Ill let other figure that one out)
Disclaimer: It's been a while since I posted that, and some things might have changed |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
523
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Posted - 2013.12.29 12:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
PvE is the punishment you receive for losing your ship in PVP. This is what makes pvp losses in eve meaningful. The fact that some people perform the punishment but don't want the reward (pvp) is the mystery. here is a list of all the fiat currencies that didn't end up at zero value.....and here is a list of the places where a currency pegged to a real commodity has successfully co-existed with compound interest....-á Here is a physics professor explaining why sustainable growth isn't a thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY |
Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:there's actually nothing wrong with mining. is as exactly as interactive as pvp.
target things; activate modules. You must never done any mining then. Do you get the same adrenalin rush while cycling through targets when you get in some fight on a gate? Do you ever do that evil laughter when you set up a pipe bomb on a gate? I can totally see Chribba doing it with his fleet of mining capitals. His fleet makes asteroids look tiny. But regular eve "peasant-miner?" Nah.
PvP makes you pay attention to cycles, requires much more multitasking, actually may require some micromanagement. What about the the nullsec with its blobfare during Tidi? The winners is the side with better FCs who know how to micromanage better.
Unless you talk about so called PvP when all you do is drop the fleet of 10 supers on some lone nullbear. Or you get your fleet of catalysts killing a freighter slowboating to the gate. Even then Eve ganking is thousands times more interactive than mining.
Missions in Eve are closer to mining. Practically it is about mining rats for Isk from bounties then LP on top of that. Missions are a tiny bit more interactive than mining. Still not good enough to learn any PvP from them.
In the end EvE PvE can be summarized by ctrl+LClick, F1 (with missions in Eve equal to mining rats)
Tippia wrote:Refreshed how? It's received tons of tweaks and additions of the last couple of years. Last couple of years is the key phrase here. "Tons" is all relative term here. Still looks as too much of the same with the refurbished stuff. NPC rats get sleeper AI, then we get the "Copy-Paste drones in space" instead of an adequate drone UI. Some great addition to PvE, I am sure. Much fun for the rat-miners, remember how everyone got excited and thrilled? But the drone UI won't probably get fixed till they come up with solution for drone abuse outside of highsec. Making drone abuse more efficient through, gasp, more efficient UI - not gonna happen.
Incursions get "wh side-effects." WHs get to be beefy-drones nullsec with removed local and stations.
Tons?
What do you consider as tons when you talk about PvE updates again? Maybe you want to include PvP related updates? Even then it doesn't feel like tons. The most of Eve - even if you think as a whole - is all recycled content. +1 here -1 there.
New plan of building gates to new systems? Select few get to build a "titan" somewhere in "secret" (read as surrounded by a blue doughnut) location, then paint its side with "ghost-site technology gate," the the select lucky few will get shot like Baron Munchhausen to the Jove space. Oh yeah, it's not much about PvE though. And if you mention ghost site PvE - Reskinned exploration - haha, they even removed the loot spew, we finally got our exploration back.
+P+++Prything new is forgotten old. Neither polishing the coin nor flipping on a different side is same as making money. What we see CCP does here is stand on the side flipping the same coin for 10 years, occasionally shining it, and demonstratively trying to bite into it showing us: "Hey - that's pure gold right there, don't even think otherwise!"
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
15451
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Thetabetalpha wrote:Dave Stark wrote:there's actually nothing wrong with mining. is as exactly as interactive as pvp.
target things; activate modules. You must never done any mining then. Mining is Daves thing, it's what he does.
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Thetabetalpha
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
43
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:PvE is the punishment you receive for losing your ship in PVP. This is what makes pvp losses in eve meaningful. The fact that some people perform the punishment but don't want the reward (pvp) is the mystery. So all the newbs who start playing the game are punished from the very start and get put in the corner?
pÇî(-¦pâÿ-¦)
Hey, that's a good point, maybe that's why all the people who leave don't want to stick around. Other MMOs give candy and treats and here you get a beatdown and get your ass placed in the corner, lol Then you proudly compare eve to other mmos, and link that learningcurve.jpg all over the place.
But all the quitters forget about the last "beatdown" they received the very last time so they come back for more.
But community overall can be described as Pavlov's dog, yay.
We think we can make CCP do what we want, right? amiright? Nah, I think they'll just keep making community whining.
Hurts them more in the end. |
Arresy Barres
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
30
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Posted - 2013.12.29 15:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Oh god, why, I thought I had a delicate and smart sense of humor, but I've been laughing minutes about this... |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
92
|
Posted - 2013.12.29 15:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Its the CCP way ...
1. We want players to live in null and PvP a lot .
2. So for laughs lets start them all in hisec where there is no PvP
3. But we do not want them to stay there ... so we lets make PvE boring and do not up date missions or add new ones.
4. and just for laughs make it easy for gankers to kill their unarmed mining ships so they are terrified of leaving highsec.
with the result that the majority of players stay in highsec till they get bored of it and quit :D |
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