there are many better ways to make isk than pos fuel. station trading on an alt comes to mind, and so do low class wormholes. try to remember that until relatively recently, PI didn't exist, so nerfing it isn't really a big deal imo. Also, if your corp cant afford to give some noobs t1 cruisers as long as they use them responsibly, then i suggest you look for a better source of income as well....

just because your favorite isk source is getting very slightly nerfed doesn't mean it is the end of the world. people will still need robotics in probably the same amounts because the vast majority permanent of towers are large

TLDR:

This expansion hurts children

CCP- Think of the children!

Try getting some indi pilots in your corp and protect them rather than blowing them up. They would probably happily pull ores and build your BC's and BS's for you at a far reduced rate if you have any clue what you're when it comes to keeping them safe.

Not to mention, a mining op makes good bait for pvpers. That is if you can find a big enough fleet of them without ADHD to actually protect the fleet. most of them can't sit in the same system or on the same gate for more than 3 or 4 minutes.

In his defense you listed 3 "attacks" on noobs. Only the 3rd (last) had anything to do with POS and fuel pellets directly.

Since this thread is about POS and fuel pellets, maybe you should have made your first forum post in a thread about CO changes?

Your new to forums so its understandable you got lost.

I googled it once, It's a short hand for Too Long Did Not Read

My bad, you're right. Lets alter the game for each individual new and old player. It makes much more sense to adapt the game to each player than the to adapt the players to the game.

You must be American.

^^^ You can take that any way you like

Hey... Teach them to build fuel blocks... Eh? How about that? :)

I think "Not too meddle with the market" has been one of the reasons so many things have been left broken for 6 years.

*shrug. One less pirate to worry about it sounds like to me.

You don't need to please 12 million people and turn into the next WoW. Look at Everquest. The game was as much a time sink as Eve is and it's still being played today like 15 years after release or some crazy thing like that.

I'm happy to see some of this crap getting fixed finally and if they can make a new industry (Fuel block production) in the process, I say that is even better.

The only PI fuel being cut is robotics, and only on small/medium towers. it will not change things much, especially since robotics are an enormous pain in the butt to make, and not worth the effort when you could make just as much isk, easier, by just making more enriched uranium instead.

4: A lot of people don't understand that a new industry is good for EVE, especially for new players.

5: A lot of people don't understand that this new POS fuel block industry may end up being more profitable and less time consuming to do with their existing infrastructure than what they are currently doing.

The stock levels of the various fuel blocks will be balanced by the ever present forces of supply and demand, just as all other items on the market are. Supplies and prices will fluctuate wildly for a while, and reach a state of relative equilibrium.

hybrid cars were invented. theyre more fuel efficient than other cars. naturally the oil business is crashing...

Solo PI done by brand new players in high sec is fundamentally unchanged, and likely to be more profitable now.

Most new players do not do PI in low sec/null sec. There are exceptions of course, but that mostly depends on your definition of "new players".

Players that have been around long enough to make a go of low sec/ null sec PI work will be more challenged, this is true. They would be much better served to find like minded players and work together in these pursuits. This is not a bad thing.

Indeed, these are also EXACTLY the same types of circumstances that were the driving force behind the initial creation of what are currently some of the largest power blocks in the game.

you're a moron.

you think that oil magically appears and the refining companies are not changing their sale prices, and that the oil has an arbitrary price set by the economy god? whoever is selling that oil is making a butt-ton of money - in the OIL business.

Sorry sukee, I was typing when you posted last. To avoid pyramid quoting:



I'm more focused on the main points made in this thread than about the changes about to occur with custom offices, this is true.

However I will point out again that there is not a lot of large scale PI in low sec, and certainly not in null sec, done by new players. That may be a matter of definition, but I'm calling a new player as one that has been in EVE less than 3 months (give or take)... one that is still in the process of doing tutorials or has recently completed them and struck out to make their own fortune.

Exceptions exist undoubtedly, but most have been at the game long enough not to be considered "new". Those players are at the point in their career where they need to make a decision. That being:

1: Do I want to stay solo, knowing that many things will be more difficult and that some things will be virtually impossible to do on my own.

2: Do I want to formalize some of the relationships I have built in game so far and either join or create a corp that is dedicated, in part or in whole, to the things that I like doing in game. In this case PI and other industry related activities.

This is not a bad thing, and either choice is valid.

The changes to customs offices is not unexpected, and even more competitiveness will be coming in the near future. This should come as no surprise to anyone, and none of these steps are intended to alienate new players. PI can appeal to all experience levels in one way or another, but there will definitely be some aspects of it (and some area's) that are new/solo player appropriate and some that are not.

Just like the rest of the game.

Rather than throwing the idea out with all its virtues and flaws, I'm trying to see what I can suggest to fix the flaws. I've advocated two possible solutions that I think would address your issue:

1. Have a manufacturing slot / pos fuel refinery built into the control tower for turning old pos fuel into the new fuel pellets.
2. Have the new system be opt in via a script that can be installed into the tower.

Do either of these suggestions work for you? Do you have any constructive suggestion that would solve your problem?

It will devastate the little guys .... it's a tough game they are playing already.... with a thin profit margin ... limiting ozone use is really important




why not carry out the half and half solution fully .....



add blocks ..... WITHOUT REMOVING THE OLD WAY

everybody wins .... the math impaired can get a simple solution .... and those who have .... oh say ... spent hundreds of hours making web apps and spreadsheets wont loose their advantage

1) OK
2) If we go ahead with blocks, either the amount of pos fuel needs to be reduced for small/medium POSes or the amount of fuel for large POSes needs to be increased. A medium POS is supposed to consume fuel at half the rate of a large POS, and a small POS at about one quarter of the rate. Currently, however, a small POS cannot consume 1/4 of a unit of robotics and consumes one unit instead. With blocks a small tower can consume 1/4th of a unit of robotics. One benefit of blocks is that things become more consistent. Your point #1 and point #2 are inconsistent though.
3) I agree, but it seems like a discussion for a different thread. I can see why you continue voice opposition though.

there is actually a lot of neat reballancing and options that could be introduced .... making poses more profitable by giving managers more options for how to run it.... and could make poses A LOT MOAR fun and interesting. we could find real use for lots of PI materials.... which would actually help new players


I have a ton of ideas for ways would could make a variety of fueling options .... I could get into it more if anyone is interested in this kind of fueling model

Why are you posting about this stuff in the wrong thread? it seems you dont have any problems with the POS changes but just want another place to whine about the customs office idea which, btw has its own thread here

ok, i read that original post, which, btw did not assist in my opinion of your argument . . . it seems that youre ticked off because the crazy amount of isk you were making from robotics with little risk is being taken away from you in two ways because #1 it takes less robotics to run small/medium towers and #2 you cant do PI in low sec/0.0 that you dont fight for.

To that I have two things to say
#1 you know that PI makes more than robotics right?
#2 oh no, you might have to join with some other people and fight for some space . . . its not like thats what the game is about or anything . . .

Old system: Do math, haul fuel to POS

New system: do easier math, haul fuel to POS, haul assembly arrays to POS, re-manufacture fuel

This whole things sounds like another nerf to low/null/w-space PI for those who make their own fuel.

We reduced effective robotics consumption on medium and small towers because it was judged to be better than increasing the consumption on large towers

Edit: I'm not trying to be offensive when I say this, however perhaps this may be a good lesson that you need to speak to more than just your large alliance contacts when making decisions. Cost benefit equations for those with Trillion isk corp wallets are utterly different to the majority of players.

Creating a bottleneck would likely play into the hands of those big alliances that you are worried about. If Robotics become the 'ultimate prize' then the most powerful will seek to monopolise its production. Like we all saw with Tech moons. Tech is a bottleneck in T2 production, so certain groups set out to seize as many tech moons as they could across the map.

If Robotics became a key bottleneck, we'd likely see a greater effort being made to seize control over plasma planets. Distribute the value of resources more evenly however, and we should see fewer monopolies emerging.

pi isn't moonmats and nothing is comparable between the two

Aaaaand, no response to the assertions that this is a nerf to small groups, and a buff to Grayscale friends.

Biiig surprise.

Instead we get "nobody at CCP knows how to use the filler tool in MS Paint." *sigh*

I don't see how this makes things worse for the littleguy. Ammo factories are tiny. In hisec, I don't even need that.

In w-space, I literally will not notice the ISK difference (which will probably be down marginally after the PI changes, by my dodgy math), but trust me I will notice the drop in volume of ice I need to ship in (~6%).


Thinking about it: this might hurt the booster manufacturers in lowsec who have to run small/medium towers to break even on their chosen goods. I can't think of anyone else this will harm.

I don't understand how this nerfs them. Could you explain please?

Leaving the POCO aside, you believe the demand for PI products will drop due to reduced demand and that will hurt new players as PI is an easy for of income to get into, correct?

If I may ask, is it not possible that the simplification of fuel management could lead to more people having towers and the increased demand keeping prices up?
Is there a reason PI mats wouldn't be bought by people producing fuel?
Is the difference in fuel consumption enough to severely reduce demand for the PI goods?

I suggest, politely but firmly, that you go back and read the devblog again. Overall, small towers will see 10-25% fuel savings per month, medium towers in the 5-10% range and large towers about 4-8% (assuming that fuel prices stay roughly level).

In addition, the new blocks are about 9% smaller then the source materials.

This is not the POCO whine thread.

And this change will help small corps, because now small towers suddenly got a lot cheaper to operate. Which means you can put more of your PI materials on the market rather then spending it on your own POS fuels.

(Complaining about the rise & fall of commodities in EVE is rather pointless. Look at ice prices, or mineral prices, or any other building component which tends to rise and fall based on demand or speculation. If it becomes less profitable to harvest a particular PI good, switch to a different market segment.)