I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Is this normal now?

Judging by the replies... I see this mindset is normal for this game... thanks

Forum permits, huh

It's not any different from 5 years ago :D

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Griefing is against EULA & Bannable.

However.... He is not griefing if 'following you around' was in the same system.
If you traveled a large number of jumps trying to loose him, or he bumped you for an hour and wouldn't even let you warp back to station when he had no intent to gank you, that is.

So, if someone does it to you, just leave. Also, get a Retriever, not a Hulk, Hulks are for Null sec mining ops really. Where the speed matters and you have haulers to help move cargo.

Bumping for an hour and/or over multiple systems without a reason is bannable. If you have a reason such as enforcing the will of the savior of highsec, AKA James 315, then it is perfectly legal and within the limits of the EULA/TOS.

No, even with reason it counts as harassment/griefing and is bannable if taken too far.

James 315 can not stalk people, nor 'happen' to have an alt in every system a particular miner flees to.

If he stakes out a system a week and moves systems every sunday, and they happen to pick the wrong next system, well that's a different thing, since the GM's can see his pattern of bumping. But a reason is not sufficient excuse to grief someone.

No, even with reason it counts as harassment/griefing and is bannable if taken too far.

James 315 can not stalk people, nor 'happen' to have an alt in every system a particular miner flees to.

If he stakes out a system a week and moves systems every sunday, and they happen to pick the wrong next system, well that's a different thing, since the GM's can see his pattern of bumping. But a reason is not sufficient excuse to grief someone.

Wow!!!

So the Saviour himself was out bumping today?

Can someone get us confirmation of this?

It is completely within the EULA/TOS. I don't care how wrong you think I am, but I am right. I have had many harassment/griefer petitions filed against me but because I was enforcing the code and not doing it without a purpose they were all unfounded. I would go into it further but that would mean discussing GM stuff on the forums, which is against the EULA/TOS, unlike enforcing the CODE.

See the above referred to GM posts on the topic.

The petitions you are talking about will have been miners whining because you bumped them for 5 minutes, then they warped to the other end of the ice field and you followed them, not stalking them for hours across new eden.
Which as I've already said about the former, doesn't count.
However the later does. Reason or not, you can't continually stalk someone like that just to bump them.

you can't continually stalk someone like that just to bump them.

Gee, can you please tell me how you know what petitions I'm talking about when I didn't provide links or give out specific details about them?

You know what assuming does . . .

Yet I know I'm right.
Since the GM's have been so explicit on this subject with their own posts on the forums.
And I also know what most miners are like.

Freaking carebears man . . . "Yet I know I'm right" LOLOL

In Eve you can lie, cheat, and steal. The GM's copy and paste response to petitions are meant to make the filer of the petition think he has done something when in reality they haven't.

But I can already tell that you are just another highsec carebear who hasn't been on the other side of the river yet thinks he knows everything about it. I'm done here.

See the above referred to GM posts on the topic.

The petitions you are talking about will have been miners whining because you bumped them for 5 minutes, then they warped to the other end of the ice field and you followed them, not stalking them for hours across new eden.
Which as I've already said about the former, doesn't count.
However the later does. Reason or not, you can't continually stalk someone like that just to bump them.

I do find it amusing though, in a world of scams, corptheft, death at every turn, massive fleet battles, and insane metagaming....the act of harmlessly ramming your ship into another brings the most ire from devoted miners.

It's not any different from 5 years ago :D

Gee, can you please tell me how you know what petitions I'm talking about when I didn't provide links or give out specific details about them?

You know what assuming does . . .

The answer is yes, there are now more new order douches than previously

They pester around in like 3 systems and they are losing members left right and center to groups that actually matter.

The worst possible thing you can do is pay them... they will soon be back to tell you some other made up rule you've broken which invalidates your payment. I've seen it happen time and time again.

Your willful dis-information is only going to cause more miners to have their ships confiscated at gunpoint.

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Why don't you just admit that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about?

Poppycock. The Code is clearly laid out for all to read and anyone who has their permit revoked is guilty of violating it. I understand that some people are opposed to the New Order in the safety of the forum, but please at least try and have a clue before posting. Your willful dis-information is only going to cause more miners to have their ships confiscated at gunpoint.

Stating that harassment is against the EULA while on the other hand stating it is acceptable when the victim can pay to (maybe) have it stopped, is so typical :CCP:.

That line is so blurred that it basically comes down to the mood of the day of the senior GM when he handles the issue.

EVE is one of the few games out there where not everyone gets a pat on the butt and a trophy just for logging in.

It's called a peak. 5 Years ago the new order were nothing, a tiny group of people. Since then, they have built up to a peak, and since peaking (and since the barge changes) have been decreasing in numbers as their efforts are less effective.

Poppycock. The Code is clearly laid out for all to read and anyone who has their permit revoked is guilty of violating it. I understand that some people are opposed to the New Order in the safety of the forum, but please at least try and have a clue before posting. Your willful dis-information is only going to cause more miners to have their ships confiscated at gunpoint.

Though the occasional "new order" type can probably PvP and does the "New Order" thing just for lulz most of them are wannabes and you rarely if ever see them in losec, people might actually shoot back at them.

The answer is yes, there are now more new order douches than previously, so yes, this is more common. The worst possible thing you can do is pay them, since that encourages them to d it more. In realism paying them only usually stops the one person doing it for now, and they will soon be back to tell you some other made up rule you've broken which invalidates your payment. I've seen it happen time and time again.

The best thing you can do is simply move to a new system (more than a few jumps away). If they follow you, petition it, since they are not allowed to follow you around bumping you forever. Also, there are unwritten limits. If they are completely preventing you from being able to do anything leaving you with only the option of not playing, it's been going on for more than a couple of hours, and they have no ability to kill you or gain anything from it, CCP will usually ask them to cease if you raise a ticket.

Essentially what it boils down to is while CCP are not going to step in every time anyone gets bumped as it's a valid method of gameplay, if gets to the point of stupid and starts risking them losing subs, they'll usually take action.

Remember though, regardless of what the forum trolls tell you, if you feel harassed, and feel that it's gone on too long, you do have the right to raise a ticket about it. It may not get anything done if CCP feel it's within their limits, but you are free to report what you feel is harassment. At the end of the day, this is a game and we're all here for entertainment. Silently putting up with not having any fun at all because some troll on the forum told you you are a carebear won't do anything.

Anyway, here's the big super secret behind The Code. People who follow it are effectively ungankable. The whole "Pay attention, don't be AFK, tank your mining ship...." bit, advice handed out pretty freely, that's following The Code.

It's called a peak. 5 Years ago the new order were nothing, a tiny group of people. Since then, they have built up to a peak, and since peaking (and since the barge changes) have been decreasing in numbers as their efforts are less effective.

And a heck of a lot more satisfying than actually paying these retards.

like anything, if they don't get any response from you then it isn't fun, they will move on and, depending how drunk or stoned they are, will remember that you did not provide them with tears.

The only griefers I know sit in starter corps and tell you to play isolated. To mine or run missions.

False statement.

They will not stop.

Bumping is legal. Griefing is not. That's the line CCP must manipulate policy around.

Just take two or three screenshots about 5-10 minutes apart, as you are bumped a few times into different parts of the belt from your desired location. Try to get proof of your Orca or Hulk moving away at 250 m/s on speedometer.

Forward the photos and story in a Petition, and I guarantee you will not see that Bumper "for awhile".

Or........................just move somewhere else and mine.

[quote=Lucas Kell]
Carebears are a subset of EVE's population contributes little to nothing to the community or the content of the game, and does not deserve the special, protected status that the developers have given them.

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

well, they give CCP cashflow.
as it seems (by reading the bragging on the forums) everyone else is plexing their accounts.
and now you might begin to understand why they do have a protected status, coz they're the customers and you're the leeches.

Five years ago, the New Order didn't exist. You may be confusing it with Hulkageddon, which while similar, was run by different people with different goals. Since I've been around, the New Order channel has pretty steadily grown from an average of ~20 people online, to ~45-50. You do realise, we're not exactly organized like ~elite pvp alliances~ with CTAs and all that jazz, right? James doesn't come down from on-high and declare "We must focus our efforts in X system!"

You seem pretty intent on degrading members of New Order as "morons" and other such fun terms. Not having some RL/Game disconnect issues, are you? I mean, all it takes for me to stop being a "New Order Agent" is logging in a different account.

Anyway, here's the big super secret behind The Code. People who follow it are effectively ungankable. The whole "Pay attention, don't be AFK, tank your mining ship...." bit, advice handed out pretty freely, that's following The Code.

that 1 trillion times! That is the greater offense or attack someone can commit upon a new player. Shoudl be bannable even.

Yeah I bet CCP are really kicking themselves for providing a means to maintain a subscription without providing any income for them whatsoever.
Or maybe they're smarter than you give them credit for and it's actually you who misunderstands how PLEX works.

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Many say this, yet nobody is willing to help and put effort into balancing this and I can't do it alone, because there are too many of them.

Irony.

You realise plex subscriptions still produce income for CCP right? People would not buy plex and sell them on the market if there was no demand from them.

Irony.

You realise plex subscriptions still produce income for CCP right? People would not buy plex and sell them on the market if there was no demand from them.

Gee, can you please tell me how you know what petitions I'm talking about when I didn't provide links or give out specific details about them?

You know what assuming does . . .

You realise it doesn't have to be affecting my real life for me to think someone is a moron right? The majority of the new order guys I've spoken to are not very bright. That is no surprise, since it's effectively a cult and cults aren't really known for attracting the brightest sparks.

Am i the only one who when i mine simply sets keep at range on a rock so the bumpers cant know me out of range?

Player created corps: Check

Player created Banks: Check

Player created organised crime: Check

Player created nations: Check

Player created Universities: Check

Player created cults/religion: ZOMGNOWAIWHATAREYOUANOOBLOLDDUUHH!!!!1111!

Hmm

I sense a gap in the market

Problem is, those are in NPC corps, othwerwise they would be perma deced.

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

I have to correct myself.

The issue aren't carebears in starter corps, the issue are you people who complain about them.

There is no good, unless it is being done.

The reason for the situation we have is because you don't do it. You just whine. Disgusting!

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Too much work. I actually tried that once. I applaud your efforts but I have better things to do with my limited logged-in time than argue with idiots in starter corp chat. Voices of reason tend to get shouted down anyway, and most of the newbs think that the loudest voices are probably right. Until we can wardec them or new players somehow get booted out after a period of time, there isn't a realistic solution to this problem.

So, the answer to "Do you have some kind of RL/game disconnect issue" is a resounding "YES!".

Seriously man, judgement of intelligence in a video game, cult status...wowzers. It's a game. For real. We don't like, worship James 315.

Just in case you missed the whole creation of The New Order....When James first started up with the whole serious bumping thing, he sent in a petition asking about it's legality under EULA. He was told that in order to be a valid gameplay mechanic, there had to be a reason for doing it. Intro, The New Order.

It's fun to know that our antics have people actually thinking we are a real cult in the real world though. If you really think it's true, see a psychologist. You have some reality/fantasy issues that need worked on.

Player created corps: Check

Player created Banks: Check

Player created organised crime: Check

Player created nations: Check

Player created Universities: Check

Player created cults/religion: ZOMGNOWAIWHATAREYOUANOOBLOLDDUUHH!!!!1111!

Hmm

I sense a gap in the market

And this is also something I get as response a lot, meaning that ...

YOU DON'T ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE!

The only way to balance it is having alts in starter corps balancing out all the carebearing vets who ruin the game for the new players! Why are people so completely blind to this? It's beyond me!

They are influencing new players right from the start. It's not far from forming and teaching the personalities of kids.

Does anybody actually understand the issue or is all you can do complain? I am complaining too, but I have tried doing something! All I get as responses when I'm asking for help are the same bullshit, predictable responses, instead of

"Yeah you're right! Instead of complaining, I'll join you in a starter corp and we'll start changing the future of the game together!"

Most of the new order guys I've spoken to and seen speaking are clearly on the lower end of the intellectual spectrum. And an in-game cult is and in-game cult. It still attracts the same type of people, and while your may be able to separate your two personas, it's clear for the amounts of rage spewed by some new order members that some of the members don't.

I do find it amusing though how when you guys spout off in the forum about all sorts of nonsense, you are all just "RPing", yet I respond to one foaming-at-the-mouth neckbeard and you jump into tell me that I'm the one that needs to separate my real life and my game.

Are you suggesting they round up the miners and make them stay in the systems close to market hubs or something

lol no, they cleanse the population of the miners they don't like. But yeah, read some of the stuff they write and you'll soon start to see the correlations.

Honestly, how can you expect people to move on if null sec players scam them, low sec players shoot them, and high sec players grief extort them?

Why exactly did you create a thread about this?

I mean ... it's rather obvious as why it is as it is. If you give a big group of people a way to grab the lowest hanging fruit without actual consequences, then a percentage of this big group of people will inevitably take it. A part of this smaller group of people will, OF COURSE, be of lower intellect. They love picking on easy targets, most likely because they are easy targets themselves, one way or the other.

Putting them all into the same pot is nonsense, though! That makes no sense! People have different reasons for what they do! The one thing I have observed myself though, is that many have turned completely blind to anything that's being said to them. They just read what they want to read, instead of reading what's written. There is NO point in talking to these people, so why do you actually make such an issue about it?

What exactly is the point of this discussion? You're talking about the sky being blue and the grass being green!

By doing what the scammers, gankers, and extortionists do: find safety in numbers.

I didn't create this thread...

I stated that the bumpers and gankers exist, that you shouldn't pay the new order guys as it encourages them and that if a players feels like what is happening to them is beyond gameplay and they feel genuinely harassed, to raise a support ticket. CCP are more than capable of deciding if it is or not and all that posting in GD will get you is trolled.

I stand behind that, and I'm more than capable of sustaining all of the trolling, attacks and defamation that the new order guys can throw at me. And why am I talking about it? Sheer boredom. I'm not home yet. :D

[I was claiming that players grief corps by joining them and awoxing them.

I think you missed the rest of my post. I wasn't claiming the new order guys grief them (though I wouldn't claim they don't either). I was claiming that players grief corps by joining them and awoxing them.

And safety in numbers? How do you make yourself safe when those numbers could easily be the threat?

The same way the scammers, gankers, and extortionists do: gather around a common goal.

Judging by the replies... I see this mindset is normal for this game... thanks

Scammers gather around a common goal....

GǪand creating an entire website as a cover, even. Never mind that it's the most obvious and well-known fake in all of EVE, people still fall for it, don't they?

Scammers gather around a common goal....

Judging by the replies... I see this mindset is normal for this game... thanks

If the corp is being griefed by an awoxer, can they petition it? How many guys does the awoxer have to kill before it's properly petionable griefing, like a whole mining op?

If your corp moves to another region and you follow them and then awox them, then it's griefing.

How do you have the audacity to imply that OTHER people are pathetic?

Always has been, always will be, even though I'm a carebear it's one of the major reasons I play.

So my test spy can't awox them since they've moved from null to lowsec to null to Vale...?

If the corp is being griefed by an awoxer, can they petition it? How many guys does the awoxer have to kill before it's properly petionable griefing, like a whole mining op?

GǪand I'm removing an incorrect usage of the word GǣgriefGǥ. Griefing, as you know, is something you get banned for doing in this game.

The same way the scammers, gankers, and extortionists do: gather around a common goal.

[Actually, I think the reason so many people remain in NPC corps is that it's impossible to protect yourself joining a player owned one.

Me too. I'm flying a Stratios around null sec doing sites and dodging people trying to kill me, it makes the loot even sweeter lol.

It's conflict that makes things (like games and stories) better. Who ever read a book that said "once upon a time, people got along swimmingly and no one was ever mad at each other, the end" lol.

The crazy thing (to me) is that they are so many other games (like Star Trek Online for instance, which I play) that actively shield players from the unwanted interference and gameplay of others, where ALL interactions are consensual. And you couldn't PAY an EVE carebear to go play a game like that, yet they choose to play this game while all the while complaining about things that are natural parts of the game like ganking, scamming, piracy and whatever.

It doesn't make a lick of sense to me why they do that.

By doing what the scammers, gankers, and extortionists do: find safety in numbers.

Can you be more specific when you say that "it's impossible to protect yourself"?

Well no, you get banned for an excessive level of griefing.

When you purposely roll and alt to get into a corp to kill someone for no gain, that's also griefing, it's just not bannable.

yes, because what is supposed to be a sandbox game should force you to seek safety in numbers to do anything.

or devs could do something that actually benefits the game and keep douche bag activity in low and null where it belongs.

If it's griefing, it's bannable. And getting into a corp to kill someone is pretty much always done for gain GÇö its just not always for ISK gain, specifically.

It's not though is it.

yes, because what is supposed to be a sandbox game should force you to seek safety in numbers to do anything.

or devs could do something that actually benefits the game and keep douche bag activity in low and null where it belongs. carebears are the lifeblood of EVE and the cancer is the tards who somehow think grief monkeys should have what are essentially risk and punishment free activities.

yes, because what is supposed to be a sandbox game should force you to seek safety in numbers to do anything.

or devs could do something that actually benefits the game and keep douche bag activity in low and null where it belongs. carebears are the lifeblood of EVE and the cancer is the tards who somehow think grief monkeys should have what are essentially risk free activities.

The low costs and risks associated with being a high sec "pirate" are the lamest and most imbalanced thing about this game by far. It just sucks that so many total losers who gravitate to this kind of activity get off so easy. That is the kind of bullshit that makes people want to quit this game. Not that its harsh (that is the idiots arguing), but that sociopaths are so easily rewarded and never pay any meaningful costs.

So my test spy can't awox them since they've moved from null to lowsec to null to Vale...?

So....
You're saying that ganking is an essentially risk and punishment free activity, which is as risky or costly as other players make it for them. While promoting the removal of activities you deem undesirable, such as "risk and punishment free" ganking, to low and nullsec to make doing pretty much anything in highsec a risk free activity.

How can you not see the hypocrisy in this?

And you're still going on about that dude who took your COSMOS item?

Look, you got outplayed. it's ok, it happens to all of us (like that time when i was a young mission runner and got tricked into CONCORDING myself). But damn guy, get over it. No wonder ccp told you to stop petitioning.

You know every time., you know that "princess" character is someone's alt and they read the forums. You know they get a good laugh everytime you allude to how they beat you out of your COSMOS item right?

It just sucks that so many total losers who gravitate to this kind of activity get off so easy. That is the kind of bullshit that makes people want to quit this game. Not that its harsh (that is the idiots arguing), but that sociopaths are so easily rewarded and never pay any meaningful costs. It is a disgusting imbalance.

No he can't, and he couldn't when he made TWO general discussion threads about the same one COSMOS mission incident (this is after ccp told him to stop petitioning about the same incident, we only know this because he told us lol). The dude is seriously cracked lol. Nerf Burgers? He shoulda Nerfed crying

How does sociopathy in any way factor into all of this? And how is it being rewarded?
How is it not harsh that you have to be aware of your surroundings or you'll get hit with some kind of loss?

What's this imbalance you're talking about? How is it an imbalance that proactive stance yields more than an inactive one?

Sure. In a player run corp, you can be merrily playing away, then someone in your corp comes and blows you up either for fun or profit. Anyone that isn't doing missions has no need to leave an NPC corp, since all they are doing is opening themselves up to that.

Sure, you could say they could protect themselves by being cautious of greens, but why would they need to do that? They could simply stay in an NPC corp and avoid both that and wars, or they could create a 1 man corp if they want to get rid of tax.

Corp aggression being always on is just a really dumb mechanic that puts up too much of an issue. A high sec group running mining for example is better running out of NPC corps as their boosters and freighters then can't get awoxed or held to ransom.

How does sociopathy in any way factor into all of this? And how is it being rewarded?
How is it not harsh that you have to be aware of your surroundings or you'll get hit with some kind of loss?

What's this imbalance you're talking about? How is it an imbalance that proactive stance yields more than an inactive one?

first of all, I'm not dumb enough to argue with someone so obtuse who spends their entire existence of the past... (how many years now?) on the EVE forums. If you want people to debate you seriously, try not to be so all around ridiculous.

Sociopathy is one of those words the uninformed like to toss around to sound smart, Tippia dear. It doesn't actually exist.


Using that logic, anyone who has killed others in multiplayer TF2 is a spree killer, Payday2 players are amazing robbers, and Call of Duty folks are all Special Forces Seal Team 6 Green Beret Rangers.

Sociopathy is one of those words the uninformed like to toss around to sound smart, Tippia dear. It doesn't actually exist.

The closest thing would be Antisocial Personality Disorder, and a key part of that is "...failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors". Since ganking, awoxing, corptheft, missionbaiting, and all such activities are perfectly lawful according to CCP, you can't really assign an ASPD label to people performing them.


There's also the amazing lol that is diagnosing a RL mental disorder from behaviour in a video game. Using that logic, anyone who has killed others in multiplayer TF2 is a spree killer, Payday2 players are amazing robbers, and Call of Duty folks are all Special Forces Seal Team 6 Green Beret Rangers.

Drunk posting is the best kind of posting.

logic you say?

you are equating simulated behavior, such as killing someone in a video game, with actual behavior, such as doing something solely for the purpose of causing grief.

You also think sociopaths can't exist in mmorpg video games?

these clowns.

There's also the amazing lol that is diagnosing a RL mental disorder from behaviour in a video game.

its the normal people who are screwed up, not me!

This sounds more like poor recruitment rather than poor game mechanics.

Guilty or creating a one-man (+alt) corp to avoid tax (and also to avoid NPC corp chat).. I still don't understand why the game mechanics should protect you or me rather than you or I protecting ourselves and our investments.

Or you could just make recruitment tougher, more focused, more exclusive. I guess my thinking is that there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of player-owned corps. It might be a visibility thing but why are you the only one I am seeing rag on the mechanics?

Let's just end this right now. I suspect it's not the mechanics that you despise. It's the people that kill you (and other people in hi-sec) with these mechanics. Might I suggest that CCP, Eve Online, and their associated game mechanics are not your enemy. The people shooting at you are your enemy and I think it's time you shot them back. You think you would find it more satisfying that impotently lobbying for changes on a forum that is rife with people who don't give a damn about what you're upset about.

**Disclaimer: Lucas I hope I don't come across as too disrespectful. Lately, these forums have been strewn with whining posts in whining threads and it is entirely possible that I have read more into your posting than is actually there. If that is the case and I just jumped your **** for no good reason then you have my apologies. I am simply tired of people bitching about all the **** they want to change in a game they claim to love.

*snip*

You'd likely be best buddies with an ASPD personality, till they decided to throw you away for thrills....and it wouldn't be an "in-game" action they'd gun for.

facts.

It doesn't make a lick of sense to me why they do that.

Indeed. And by that, Lady Fappington is referring to banging a girlfriend, or a mom.

Just saying.

Not at all, perfectly reasonable posts. And I do love eve, I'd just like more people to love it too. They need to make the gap between a day one player and a player interacting with others much much smaller. Once you start interacting with others and making friends, it makes it much more fun and harder to simply stop subbing.

I seems my angst towards you was misplaced. I am very sorry and ashamed for having berated you a bit there and beg your forgiveness.

That truly touches my heart Kimmi, thank you.

Now could you please, for the love of all that is whatever, tell me...

What does purple taste like?

Exactly correct, good sir. Sure, they'd use EVE to get to know you, but an in-game action would be waaaay to piddly to generate the thrills they seek.

Much, much more likely that the ASPD person would be the biggest defender of (your chosen playstyle) as they worm their way into your personal life via EVE, only to wreck RL relationships/ruin jobs/cause evictions.

I seems my angst towards you was misplaced. I am very sorry and ashamed for having berated you a bit there and beg your forgiveness.

Chicken.

yes, because what is supposed to be a sandbox game should force you to seek safety in numbers to do anything.

or devs could do something that actually benefits the game and keep douche bag activity in low and null where it belongs. carebears are the lifeblood of EVE and the cancer is the tards who somehow think grief monkeys should have what are essentially risk free activities.

The low costs and risks associated with being a high sec "pirate" are the lamest and most imbalanced thing about this game by far. It just sucks that so many total losers who gravitate to this kind of activity get off so easy. That is the kind of bullshit that makes people want to quit this game. Not that its harsh (that is the idiots arguing), but that sociopaths are so easily rewarded and never pay any meaningful costs. It is a disgusting imbalance.

I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,, I finally got myself up to a hulk to mine, and I only mine in .9 for now until I can train drones up enough to get some hobs for protection.


Anyways, I encountered this for the first time today....... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships to keep knocking you out of mining distance...... this guy followed me around for an hour doing this and demandng a 10,000,000 ransom to stop.... you can't attack them in .9


Is this normal now?

Its no cheaper or easier than mining or mission running in a decently fit ship. A miner with a few tank mods who is at his keyboard will over double his EHP.

You can call it what you want. Honestly, with how easy it is to awox, it's not hard to make a clean account that passes all scrutiny. But thats pretty much beside the point. There's still no benefit to joining a player run corp. If your CEO lets in an awoxer and he ganks you, it's a bit late to react.

It doesn't have to. But all the time it doesn't NPC corps will be the favoured place for high sec players. A simple on/off switch for aggression in a corp would allow a CEO to control if his corp needs to be able to attack each other. Sure, a few awoxers would be sad about it, but in the long run it would promote player run corps over NPC corps. NPC corps should have a 10% tax on all refining too, bringing it in line with bounties.

There is literally no way to make recruitment tough enough to eliminate this issue to the point that NPC corps and one man corps are not still a better choice

Uh, you couldn't have missed the mark more than this. I don't really play much in high sec, just a couple of alts and they never get ganked, bumped or anything. And I don't despise anything about the mechanics. I'm simply stating why it is that NPC corps are so favoured. Honestly, I'm perfectly happy with it remaining the way it is, as it doesn't affect me in the slightest. But it is a shame that newer players are effectively encouraged to avoid playing with others.

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

yes, because what is supposed to be a sandbox game should force you to seek safety in numbers to do anything.

1) Making this change severely limits AWOXing which, while not enjoyed by the victims, is still enjoyed by some players. Is it fair to hamstring their playstyle?

2) The intended consequence is to get people out of NPC corps but moving into a player corp puts an individual player at risk of being wardecced at which point they just jump back to the safety of an NPC corp. Intended consequence fails so what is the point?

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.

I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.

Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.

Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.

I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.

Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

When I don't want that I play Star Trek Online rather than try to make EVE conform to my unreaosnable wishes.

Yes it is, and CCP thinks this is why you pay them 15 euros/USD each month. You're free to disagree them, of course. Try doing something else were you can't be prevented from playing. Or just try playing another game; Space Engineers is fashionable now, and Kerbal Space Program plans to go Multiplayer sometime this year. Also, X Rebirth may be worth it in a few months once the modders and Egosoft get their sh*t together.

Being bumped in EVE is totally optional. And remember: never agree to blackmail as that only encourages further blackmail.

1) Making this change severely limits AWOXing which, while not enjoyed by the victims, is still enjoyed by some players. Is it fair to hamstring their playstyle?

That's an interesting point. I think wardec mechanics would need to be looked at to encourage people to stay in a corp. The problem you have is that industrial corps would be completely unable to defend, and mercenary contracts are incredibly expensive.

[Now I think it's clear why I do not favor most changes. Not that this is necessarily a bad idea but it does prevent a group of players from doing what they want to do.

And the other reason I generally don't like changes. The smallest change, in order for it to fulfill it's intended consequences, would require another small change here and another and another.

Good intentions to be sure, but the implementation and fallout could be unforeseeably (yes I'm making up words) catastrophic or catastrophically unforeseeable.

and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

Great post, thanks.

MMOs have to change though. If they stay the same way forever, they die. They need to adapt and evolve to the community to keep people both challenged and interested.

Back on topic.

1) CCP can't really do anything about griefing without ruining the freedom of the game. They could be harsher with communications perhaps - ban people for simply being rude or douchey - and thus lessen the amount of actual victimizing. But CODE. walks that line quite well. They are rarely actually rude or at all insulting.

2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting. In understanding that we can defend the freedom of the game, but we shouldn't really defend the griefers for using that freedom in such a manner.

The funny thing is when you tell griefers this, they will call it your "tears" and laugh it off. Yet I have seen over a dozen times, these griefers defend themselves as not being sociopaths on their blogs and forum threads. Clearly, it does bother them. :D

crap.

2) Most griefers are somewhat sociopathic, mainly stemming from childhood issues such as bullying at school or a lack of proper parenting.

GǪand this is based on, what, exactly?

GǪand this is based on, what, exactly?

Well, good sir, it is your lucky day.

For 10mil isk, and your fealty to the Savior of High Sec, James 315, expressed in your bio...

You can mine with zero harassment for a year!!!!

Otherwise, Agents of the New Order will continue to bump you to prevent you from becoming bot-aspirant.

Permit tank is best tank. Don't risk a red pen violation. Also visit www.minerbumping.com, to learn about the Code, and how to make high-sec a better place for all!!!

As an added bonus, I now also offer forum permits for returning players.

To post in any manner you choose, you can pay an additional 10mil isk to me.

For this you must swear fealty to Unsuccessful At Everything as the saviour of General Discussion.

It is completely within the EULA/TOS. I don't care how wrong you think I am, but I am right. I have had many harassment/griefer petitions filed against me but because I was enforcing the code and not doing it without a purpose they were all unfounded. I would go into it further but that would mean discussing GM stuff on the forums, which is against the EULA/TOS, unlike enforcing the CODE.

Well you know what, you should do this while being outside an alliance or an NPC corp so that the victim can wardec your corp in response to your behaviour. It think when this is done by people in your position it should be punishable.

I have to correct myself.

The issue aren't carebears in starter corps, the issue are you people who complain about them.

There is no good, unless it is being done.

The reason for the situation we have is because you don't do it. You just whine. Disgusting!

Well you know what, you should do this while being outside an alliance or an NPC corp so that the victim can wardec your corp in response to your behaviour. It think when this is done by people in your position it should be punishable.

Repeatedly bumping someone who is mining to keep them from mining and demanding a ransom to stop the bumping is not an accident.... it would be termed more as a form of in game extortion.

Miners have no ability to retaliate in .9 or 1.0 space against someone who repeatedly follows them from belt to belt for hours constantly bumping them off their asteroids.

I did pack up and move about 16 jumps out and hopefully that will solve the problem for a while.


Repeatedly bumping someone for an hour and chasing them through all the belts in a system with the sole purpose of keeping them from enjoying what they pay money to do is nothing but harassment plain and simple. Demanding a ransom to stop the activity should be a should be considered as proof that it is not "accidental" and should be a bannable offense considering there is a chat log of the conversation.


I seriously doubt at this point I will renew either of my accounts once my 6 months expires at this point and will focus instead on Elder Scrolls Online in a few months.


Mining is what attracted me to this game, its peaceful and quiet and I enjoy doing it.

Hearsay and conjecture. Alternatively, it could be that it was just pulled from someones ass.

Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.

Can't blame ya man. EVE is still a joke with regards on how it deals with high sec "pirates". Maybe CCP will pull their head out of their ass one day.

CCP have no need to do anything of the sort, they're not in that particular predicament. Speaking heads and arses, hows the view from there?

Big Fat NOOPEEE.

CCP doesn't play this game for us, it gives us the tools to do everything ourselves. It's your choice to use them or not.
Don't complain about things you didn't do, only things that you couldn't.

Example: probing down a titan and bumping it during E-Warp

Players use skills in fitting ships, scanning and organisation to destroy a titan ((albeit later being declared an exploit)
This was changed because the Titan pilot had no way to respond to the situation with systems disabled in E-Warp.)

Miner sucking rocks is bumped out of range,

CCP does nothing. Miner cries on forums. CCP still does nothing.

Let us analyze the differences, Miner could move to new system/space/area, Join a player corp and wardecc bumper, Could shoot him in the face and get concorded anyway, could hire mercs,. so forth.

Did Miner take any proactive steps to solve his problem?
Did Titan pilot take any proactive steps to solve his problem?

Could Miner take any proactive steps to solve his problem?
Could Titan pilot take any proactive steps to solve his problem?

Big Fat DERP.

yea, tell that to my friends who I can't get to play EVE because none of them wants to ever be at the mercy of cowardly douchebags who take no risks and pay no real consequences for failure or success.

I guess CCP didn't want their money anyway. They would rather keep cowardly grief monkeys who are afraid of challenge happy? Like I said, hopefully CCP will pull their head out of their ass one of these days.

so many nonsensical clowns.

Then man the **** up and do something that isn't moaning
that isn't moaning
that isn't moaning
that isn't moaning
that isn't moaning

They're not valid cmplaints though, thats what my beef lies with.

If you and your friends aren't interested in standing up for yourselves why are you here?

it has nothing to do with standing up for ourselves, you ridiculous clown. It is the fact that high sec "pirates" can't really be punished and take no risks and sometimes people just want to pve and not be ****** with. You have serious reading comprehension issues you need to work out before you reply in this thread any further.

Mining permits are bullshit Emergent Gameplay. New Order crap is bullshit Emergent Gameplay.

Mining permits are bullshit. New Order crap is bullshit.

it has nothing to do with standing up for ourselves, you ridiculous clown. It is the fact that high sec "pirates" can't really be punished and take no risks and sometimes people just want to pve and not be ****** with. You have serious reading comprehension issues you need to work out before you reply in this thread any further.

it has nothing to do with standing up for ourselves,