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kahle
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Posted - 2006.04.20 19:42:00 -
[61]
I've ended up with a fair collection of BPC and at the moment I cant find anywhere to research them. I've tried 6 regions so far and its very slim pickings.
The established players who have their BP's up to an ok level may be happy to occasionally drop them in, but for the newer players who are trying to get up to a competetive ME level are pretty much buggered.
Hopefully more ME slots than anything else should be added.
I dont have any issue with manufacturing or PE, as stated above its easy enough to get at. But when even a lab that 15 jumps in the middle of low sec has a 4 day waiting list for ME, and a nearby system has an 11 day waiting list (yes 11 days, 15 jumps from safe space) its pretty tough.
Learn the more advanced skills you say? I'm still struggling to get a decent amount of SP in almost anything let alone specialise this early in game on labs.
The problem is that the more specialised chars have the advanced skills, can use more labs and use them remotely.
Anyways, thats me done for the time being 
PS: no whining cause i dragged up a month old post, would you rather I posted a new one then get flamed for going over the same old gubbins...
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Prof Higgins
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Posted - 2006.04.21 10:04:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: kahle
Edited by: kahle on 20/04/2006 20:25:48
I've ended up with a fair collection of BPO and at the moment I cant find anywhere to research them. I've tried 6 regions so far and its very slim pickings.
The established players who have their BP's up to an ok level may be happy to occasionally drop them in, but for the newer players who are trying to get up to a competetive ME level are pretty much buggered.
Hopefully more ME slots than anything else should be added.
I dont have any issue with manufacturing or PE, as stated above its easy enough to get at. But when even a lab that 15 jumps in the middle of low sec has a 4 day waiting list for ME, and a nearby system has an 11 day waiting list (yes 11 days, 15 jumps from safe space) its pretty tough.
Learn the more advanced skills you say? I'm still struggling to get a decent amount of SP in almost anything let alone specialise this early in game on labs.
The problem is that the more specialised chars have the advanced skills, can use more labs and use them remotely.
Anyways, thats me done for the time being
PS: no whining cause i dragged up a month old post, would you rather I posted a new one then get flamed for going over the same old gubbins...
EDIT: BPO not BPC 
Kahle,
Strange, I have never had to wait for more than 5 days to get a slot and I normally have 4 or so items in labs at any given time. Feel free to drop me a line if you want to know where I base out of.
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Yurameki Daishun
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Posted - 2006.04.21 15:47:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Bigoleed
actually..as someone new to the game..I was a tad suprised to find no open "now" mat research slots...I am guessing a lot of older industry players have 5-25 prints in research 24/7....
I had a time trying to get them in in a low density area...and while I could have taken them to some .1-.4 sec areas for now slots...I am feeling too new to risk a huge loss of my % assets doing that...maybe later..
but anyway..yeah I was bummed I had to wait in a queue for a few days to get any research started....not game breaking tho...or too huge of a deal imo
whine some more?
since I started I've done reasearch in .4 because they have the shortest queue times, the shortest being at least 1 day and some change. Suck it up, research and manufacture shouldn't be easy!
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Nardon
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Posted - 2006.04.22 09:50:00 -
[64]
To all you guys saying "get out of the hub" a BIG LOL. If you are in a hub sure move out. But that phenomenon isn't prevalent in hubs only. In Aridia there is not a single lab slot available.
And that is partly due to the remote reseach skill I'd say. So whoever is faster gets the next slot.
That and people researching way past sensible levels(zero waste level anyone?). When I see for example small ammo bps researched up to and beyond ME 100 I really want to smack these guys hard. Granted these bps research mighty fast. But who am I to assume this stupidity ends there?
Yet I don't think adding research slots would bring much relief. So POS seems like the only choice here. And I don't think CCP would mind this conclusion. :P
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Heather Skarsgard
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Posted - 2006.04.22 10:45:00 -
[65]
well you right nardon, but don't forget that the old research system was based upon slots reservation by setting jobs as long as possible, no matter usefull, not to loose the rare lab slots. That's how my corp still have lots of bpo's with too high ME and PE level.
Now you can be sure most of people are researching well about ME20 and PE10 for most of BPs.
Well I didn't read all the long posts here, but we intended to deploy POS in high sec to put lots of lab slots for rent and make some ISK, even just for fun/RP, and it seems a persistent (grrr) bug in mobile labs prevent us to share it to people outside our corporation, can someone confirm this fact ?
thanks |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.04.22 11:05:00 -
[66]
Heather:
Yes, only corp members can have the role in your corp to use POS.
Not even alliance members have access - not even to POS hangar arrays.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Heather Skarsgard
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Posted - 2006.04.22 12:43:00 -
[67]
thanks tachy
well, let's say we have to be glad we can access the hangar within mobile lab at last..  |
Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.04.24 00:14:00 -
[68]
I picked up a couple of cruiser BPOs a couple days ago and decided that I wanted to do some ME on them. I found a system with <48h wait lists on three slots, within 2j of a hub. There was also a system 9j away that had five slots with <24h wait times (one of which was open).
Crisis? What crisis? Just realize that Empire is big.
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Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one.
Market domination through ingue ferrogue.
(I did this and could have stopped it.) |
GreyMana
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Posted - 2006.04.25 21:45:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Heather Skarsgard
Well I didn't read all the long posts here, but we intended to deploy POS in high sec to put lots of lab slots for rent and make some ISK, even just for fun/RP, and it seems a persistent (grrr) bug in mobile labs prevent us to share it to people outside our corporation, can someone confirm this fact ?
thanks
Same here ppl with +10 standings don't have access and the corpstandings is stupid for bigger corps to put up POS on their own (or you need to kick all ppl out with a low faction standing).
But what bothers me more is that my POS labs stuck after pressing the ok button when specifing BPO and ME. And of course that an alt of my friend can freely attack the POS without CONCORD reaction (Which makes high-sec POS less interesting as well). That way I see no chance to compete with NPC labs/factories.
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Nexus1972
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Posted - 2006.06.05 13:20:00 -
[70]
I think the changes to labs/factories have helped to create this problem. In the past i rented a single slot and kept it busy most of the time, safe in the knowledge that if I desperately need to research something i could pull my long - term bpo out and chuck an ammo bpo in. Due to these changes, and having to wait ages (there are no free me slots atm in heimatar/molden/metropolis regions I frequent) I have trained my main up to use 5 slots and permanantly use all 5, and que them up for the maximum amount of time. I'm sure there are many others that now instead of casually doing me research when they need, actually do it all of the time because it takes so long to get a slot, you may as well hold it as long as you can and hope that if you need to run off a few items you have already researched the bpo.
Manufacturing items is no problem, loads of slots - infact almost too many IMHO. How about drop some manufacturing and add some ME slots? In a true market driven economy, stations would provide what the market needs and empty manufacturing slots would be unprofitable.
Before anyone suggests a POS, they cost an extornionate amount to run for pure reasearch only in empire space, and low-sec although offsetting the cost if you are mining, is not an option for a small corp - buying/hauling the fuels would take most of my game time away, and make the game boring. Now if you could moon mine in a 0.5 then it might just be worth doing, but atm I believe 0.3 is highest system you can moon-mine in as as several have said I'm not prepared to move my 100's of millions of isk worth of BPO's to low sec only to be ganked be gate campers.
Also, POS's also require some numbers to defend should some grieffer corp decide to come start shooting at my POS.
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radon8
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Posted - 2006.06.05 15:58:00 -
[71]
OMG... You can queue! lol. Well that explains why the time till available kept jumping up!
I don't know... just when you think you know something about the game, something new pops up.
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dodge2005
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Posted - 2006.06.06 09:31:00 -
[72]
The lab situation is going like what it was pre-slot expansion. I personaly dont have a problem with factorys as im not based in a main hub. I do have trouble finding ME slots, I went to 4 or so regions and the quickest time I could find was a 6 day wait. Copying, I found a couple empty slots arround, but thats all, most of the empire based ones are full for over a week.
I only want to research some ammo bpo's :(. I would buy BPC packs, but they are hard to find, so i am having to purchase and research my own, which is adding to the queues.
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Rick Dentill
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Posted - 2006.06.06 10:17:00 -
[73]
Sorry this post is silly, There are hundreds of stations with manufacturing slots. I have never once had to wait for a slot. Maybe Jita VI M4 CNAP might have issues, but there are countless slots in dozens of stations available. And i have based out of and checked many many stations.
Yes there is a waiting time for lab slots. but c'est la vie.
_______
http://x-universe.kiwi.nu/page.php?id=dd |
Nexus1972
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Posted - 2006.06.06 16:00:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Rick Dentill
Sorry this post is silly, There are hundreds of stations with manufacturing slots. I have never once had to wait for a slot. Maybe Jita VI M4 CNAP might have issues, but there are countless slots in dozens of stations available. And i have based out of and checked many many stations.
Yes there is a waiting time for lab slots. but c'est la vie.
I think most people dont have manufacturing slot problems - not sure why the OP is having problems but material research IS a real pain atm. CCP pride eve on having a realistic market, yet the NPC's dont provide extra ME research slots to take advantage of the demand.
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Kenz Rider
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Posted - 2006.06.06 17:52:00 -
[75]
There is a disconnect between the player market and the NPC market. For instance, why would I build a POS for people to do research at when CCP could magically double the ME slots tomorrow or a month from now. Then my entire investment would be a waste. The NPC markets need to be officially limited and have prices based on some market mechanism, and then players (likely as part of a big corp) should be able to sell manufacturing and ME slots in their POSs.
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lisacurie
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:57:00 -
[76]
Edited by: lisacurie on 06/06/2006 18:57:37
Whoops Dupe post due to forum lag - oh no on the forums now :-)
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lisacurie
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Posted - 2006.06.06 18:57:00 -
[77]
I can understand, but the trouble is unless its a really expensive bpo that you can make lots of isk on then all the margins for building stuff go out the window. How about making a POS that requires less fuel to run that can only support labs. Even a minimal pos requires about 40 mil isk /month to run and that really makes researching frig/ammo/module bpo's pointless as any margin that did exist gets eaten by your pos costs. I also suspect that CCP have not increased the numbers of slots despite them having huge numbers of new players.
I would love to be able to set up a POS to do research, but the costs and gametime it takes to fuel the pos not to mention the standings etc (I believe your corp needs certain standings to use pos in >0.3) make this really difficult.
I for one wouldnt trust my BPO's with a third party and I like having my BPO's in a protected hangar that members only have query access to and are locked down requiring a vote to unlock them. How long before a corp thief gets away with a BPO on the assumption of researching it for you at a POS?
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Gustavef
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Posted - 2006.06.06 19:33:00 -
[78]
Having done produciton though many different phases of EVE, I like the current method.
It is a little annoying right now since I am replaceing alot of my ammo BPOs, but for most items, the wait does not bother me. Every now and then I drop off a new batch of BPOs to be researched and queue them up.
To me, manufacturing is all about investment and market research. You cant just buy any BPO and hope to make money. Also you can't expect to make money quickly.
-gustavef
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Matthew
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Posted - 2006.06.07 12:19:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Nexus1972
I think the changes to labs/factories have helped to create this problem. In the past i rented a single slot and kept it busy most of the time, safe in the knowledge that if I desperately need to research something i could pull my long - term bpo out and chuck an ammo bpo in. Due to these changes, and having to wait ages (there are no free me slots atm in heimatar/molden/metropolis regions I frequent) I have trained my main up to use 5 slots and permanantly use all 5, and que them up for the maximum amount of time. I'm sure there are many others that now instead of casually doing me research when they need, actually do it all of the time because it takes so long to get a slot, you may as well hold it as long as you can and hope that if you need to run off a few items you have already researched the bpo.
It's true that long queues mean that when you put a BPO in, you're more likely to put it in for longer - with a long queue, you'll do all the research you want/can on it in one go rather than take multiple queue time hits. However, it should not affect the maximum ME that you want on your BPO's. If you're running off 50 ME levels when you'd worked out only 25 ME levels would pay off, then you're cheating yourself, not beating the queue. So assuming people are behaving sensibly in that manner, while your first job on that BP would be a long one, you wouldn't then be coming back for more, so the activity should even out overall.
Of course, one of the problems with ME research is that people go by various rules of thumb, rather than actually calculating which ME level they should go to. Then there's those that just keep going to ME 100000000 through ignorance (or the ignorance of their BPC customers). This lack of knowledge makes it very hard for the price and queue length on the lab slots to properly regulate demand for them. Another difficulty is that the lab prices are no longer adjusting based on the crowdedness of the labs, further reducing the market pressure within the system to control demand. This would particularly help to make POS labs more competitive - as it is now, the NPC labs will always undercut POS labs on price, and as NAGA's HAC sales have shown, queue length is not a significant deterrent to people wanting the lower priced option.
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There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
lisacurie
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Posted - 2006.06.12 23:31:00 -
[80]
Yes, making stations adjust me slots based on demand could make pos'es more viable - at least things would be a bit more even :-)
I generally do ammo to me 100/pe 100 ( i know ott on me for ammo but its fast anyhow) and me 30 or so on frigs/destroyers. Its just frustrating that so many people have gotten into me research - why not make it harder skill wise to train for me research?
This account is an alt (one of 6 I setup purely to do me research). You can make a new char and within about 1hr 30 mins have them trained to do 3 lab slots. This next suggestion would affect me badly but I do wonder how many others have alts doing research - how about just like you can only train skills on once char / account at a time, how about only one can do research at a time? (/me puts on flameproof overalls)
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