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ggdgdggdg
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:48:00 -
[1]
What alliance have you come up against that actually packed way more punch than you expected? |

Crusher166
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:50:00 -
[2]
The yulai miners fighters federation of green headed gnomes put up a good fight. ------------- My Video: Start wearing purple while being very nasty |

TheKiller8
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Posted - 2006.03.19 01:52:00 -
[3]
Uh ASCN vs G/IRON blobs scared me.
.: Click 2 See My Flash Animations :. |

LTD THOR
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Posted - 2006.03.19 02:21:00 -
[4]
killer.. your sig. is .. MARVELLOUS!! 
My video ^^ : =RED WARS-The Beginning= |

Angelus X
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Posted - 2006.03.19 02:55:00 -
[5]
Haven't come up "against them" before, nor have I seen someone do it recently but;
[3FA]. ---
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2006.03.19 10:27:00 -
[6]
Last year FIX, I have to admit, were way more up for a fight than we initially expected.
Stain Empire are actually a fair bit more up for it and capable than I expected as well if I'm honest.
Thats it really.
I can list you half a dozen who are the opposite though 
Eve Blacklight Style
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Astarte Nosferatu
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Posted - 2006.03.19 12:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Blacklight
I can list you half a dozen who are the opposite though 
Surely you mean IRON right? 
Originally by: Santiago Cortes
Thread has gone wildly off-topic, flamebait and little desire on anyone's part to read what anyone else has written.
Member of the [23] |

Blacklight
|
Posted - 2006.03.19 12:52:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
Originally by: Blacklight
I can list you half a dozen who are the opposite though 
Surely you mean IRON right? 
No you guys perform exactly to our expectations every time.
Eve Blacklight Style
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Goberth Ludwig
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Posted - 2006.03.19 13:54:00 -
[9]
Frege/Ekliptika
- Gob
(my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p) |

Darko1107
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Posted - 2006.03.19 14:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
Originally by: Blacklight
I can list you half a dozen who are the opposite though 
Surely you mean IRON right? 
That comment just lines us up for an insult!
You need to retake "Forum Warrior 101"! 
I usually over predict the enemy's capabilities or get it spot on. So, no, never been surprised.
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Zrevak Ashek
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Zrevak Ashek on 19/03/2006 22:11:01 The Triad. Maaaan these ppl are good
If they rejoined Fix, Fix would again be a force to be reckoned with...
__________________ PS! Be smart, join a Huzzah corp today!
|

Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:15:00 -
[12]
Fate ^_^
woot.
fanboi ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted |

Lorth
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hamatitio Fate ^_^
woot.
fanboi
You can't be underrated when your the best, and everyone know it :)
JK BTW
 |

Shin Ra
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:22:00 -
[14]
Mohus Mihi or whatever (4s/werpa + co).
People give them **** on the forums all the time, and they deserve a lot mroe credit than they are ever given.
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Ab Initio
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Posted - 2006.03.19 22:37:00 -
[15]
SE. Not that they were ever really underestimated.
Gotta love that sinking feeling though when you realise that your 30 man fleet of whoever happens to be online vs there 20 man fleet of uber-sp, pvp 24/7 T2 snipers wasn't such good odds after all :)
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Eleese
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Posted - 2006.03.19 23:30:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Astarte Nosferatu
Originally by: Blacklight
I can list you half a dozen who are the opposite though 
Surely you mean IRON right? 
No you guys perform exactly to our expectations every time.
lol |

pshepherd
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Posted - 2006.03.20 00:05:00 -
[17]
IRON have one hell of a fast responce time tbh, within 5 minutes of attacking one of their mining corps (not in their alliance) they had both gates in the system held by interceptors, with another couple of players in the system looking for me.
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ph33rf4ct0ry
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Posted - 2006.03.20 00:58:00 -
[18]
[G] it's amazing how fast they come when IRON is in trouble
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.03.20 01:22:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ph33rf4ct0ry [G] it's amazing how fast they come when IRON is in trouble
Are you some kind of android that only activates when G/IRON members post?
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.03.20 01:31:00 -
[20]
Phoenix Alliance.
/ducks, runs 
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Kaleeb
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Posted - 2006.03.20 02:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Blacklight
No you guys perform exactly to our expectations every time.
great comeback
I would say RA are usually underestimated in terms of sheer resolve and doggedness on holding onto things.
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ggdgdggdg
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Posted - 2006.03.20 02:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: ggdgdggdg on 20/03/2006 02:51:27
Originally by: Zrevak Ashek
The Triad. Maaaan these ppl are good
If they rejoined Fix, Fix would again be a force to be reckoned with...
Firstly, Triad is not an alliance
Secondly, everyone that Huzzah fights are 'awesome' PvPers. First you raved about TSBS - now it's Triad.
No disrespect to Huzzah but TSBS and Triad, while both being capable and solid PvPers, are certainly not uber. When faced with people who know what they are doing they are both as likely to lose ships as to kill them.
What Triad and TSBS do do though is fight even when odds don't favour them and you have to respect them for that...
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CtapikKozlodoyev
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Posted - 2006.03.20 11:49:00 -
[23]
My respect goes to the Triad. They are always there for the fight, and numbers matter not.
Unfortunally, can't say the same about much other "groups" (they aren't an IGA) in eve.
Oh yea, as for alliances, i don't know any that answer the criteria.
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HatePeace LoveWar
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Posted - 2006.03.20 13:48:00 -
[24]
No alliance that ive fought recently has really turned me on :(
Chimera Sales |

juduzz
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Posted - 2006.03.20 13:58:00 -
[25]
-V- alliance would fight MC most the time which waas rare, and 4s and co. annoying as hell to fight (dock/undock ect) but there realy kool peeps or seem it and aint stupid.
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Hans Roaming
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: ggdgdggdg Edited by: ggdgdggdg on 20/03/2006 02:51:27
Originally by: Zrevak Ashek
The Triad. Maaaan these ppl are good
If they rejoined Fix, Fix would again be a force to be reckoned with...
Firstly, Triad is not an alliance
Secondly, everyone that Huzzah fights are 'awesome' PvPers. First you raved about TSBS - now it's Triad.
No disrespect to Huzzah but TSBS and Triad, while both being capable and solid PvPers, are certainly not uber. When faced with people who know what they are doing they are both as likely to lose ships as to kill them.
What Triad and TSBS do do though is fight even when odds don't favour them and you have to respect them for that...
Well that isn't the case that everyone we fight are 'awesome' pvpers. And you are correct in that the Traid are not a formal in game alliance, however the fact they fly and fight toegther and indeed recently all declared war on a corporation that declared on one of their own would suggest they are more than people who say hello to each other in local.
Both TSDS and Triad are capable and we learnt from both of them, also relations with them out of game are very good and they are always welcome in our public channel and forums . They are not into just fighting with inty swarms, their BS come closer than 120km, they engage even if the odds are not in their favour and have a tenacity that is admirable.
These factors gain our respect and praise as opposed to more than just a pretty kill ratio.
President Huzzah Federation
Be all you can be, join the Huzzah Armed Forces today! |

Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:06:00 -
[27]
Originally by: TheKiller8 Uh ASCN vs G/IRON blobs scared me.
Both we and G/IRON/Razor had nice blobs in d7 yesterday as well. Almost 400 in local, with roughly equal numbers.
I wonder if this is some kind of record for a 0.0 system.
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Mindlles
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:12:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Mindlles on 20/03/2006 14:12:39 Xenobytes, didnt know they existed, but a very well trimed group. And they hurt =)
Edit : Xeno is Stain empire, so i guess SE _____________________________________________
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maria stallion
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:22:00 -
[29]
Three alliance that really showed strenght allthough there alliance numbers didn't show it all, where morsus mihi, 5 and V alliance.
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Waut
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:41:00 -
[30]
The Angel Cartel in a certain level 4 mission proved to be very capable in blowing up my battleship a year ago. I'm still not fully recovered from that one 
Plan for galaxy domination: Step 1. Steal lots of underpants Step 2. ... Step 3. Get declared as Eve Emperor |

DeadDuck
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Posted - 2006.03.20 14:48:00 -
[31]
Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/03/2006 14:48:16 To be honest my biggest surprise was -V- during the 1st engagements on RA ... The force that they showed at that time and the willing to fight were a (bad) surprise
I remember one time while camping in N Rael with other RA members and being reallly bored because of lack of engagments/hostiles in there. I've asked to the single V pilot in system if he could call some friends so we could have a fight ... He said in local "we will be back later" ...
They appeared with a fleet of 50 some hours later ... it was the 1st big engagement in NRAEL between RA and V 
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Tiwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:04:00 -
[32]
I would say FE. Didnt expect them to put up much of a fight. But they seem to have 1 or 2 things going for them.
tiw
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.03.20 15:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: DeadDuck Edited by: DeadDuck on 20/03/2006 14:48:16 To be honest my biggest surprise was -V- during the 1st engagements on RA ... The force that they showed at that time and the willing to fight were a (bad) surprise
I remember one time while camping in N Rael with other RA members and being reallly bored because of lack of engagments/hostiles in there. I've asked to the single V pilot in system if he could call some friends so we could have a fight ... He said in local "we will be back later" ...
They appeared with a fleet of 50 some hours later ... it was the 1st big engagement in NRAEL between RA and V 
Nope the first big engagement was 10 of us in 6 raxs (bought in Konora for fun) 4 frigs attacked 3 Dominixes 2 Blaster Megas 2 Scorpions 2 HACs and support for the fun of it.
The RA pilots then instead of the usual GF and props for attacking that follows such funny suicide attacks proceeded to post the thorax killmails in local. That was for me unforgivable. Until that point we only run frig fleets in nrael because -v- traditionally used Khabi and Egbinger and never went to Konora. Even our frig fleets were against the express (almost) orders of LD and just for the occasional fun.
After that day we decided to start bringing fleets as opposed to frig fleets. The rest is history (that was also the only day in eve I completely lost it and started smacking like a drunk sailor in local - that for me was casus beli on its onw).
Perhaps I should start a thread or the most unjustifiably arrogant alliance ... IMO anyway 
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.20 21:57:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Tiwaz I would say FE. Didnt expect them to put up much of a fight. But they seem to have 1 or 2 things going for them.
tiw
5? :o
---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted |

pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.21 01:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Hamatitio
Originally by: Tiwaz I would say FE. Didnt expect them to put up much of a fight. But they seem to have 1 or 2 things going for them.
tiw
5? :o
TBH im pretty sick of this attitude that we are some mining alliance and the5 fights our battles for us. Weve been around now for quite some time constantly under attack since our birth lived threw it all and gotten stronger through each wave of attacks. Thats more than luck and relying on other alliances. Get a clue.
As far as my choices its gotta be -V- and Morhus Mihi
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Ituralde
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Posted - 2006.03.21 01:17:00 -
[36]
Star Fraction. Definately. *\o/*
Though tbh I have a place in my heart for F-E as an ex-member and FREGE for the same reason. Good guys in both. Fear is the mind-killer. |

pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.21 01:20:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ituralde Star Fraction. Definately. *\o/*
Though tbh I have a place in my heart for F-E as an ex-member and FREGE for the same reason. Good guys in both.
You cant chose yourself. Thats cheating.
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Lord Killalot
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Posted - 2006.03.21 02:38:00 -
[38]
I have been in fight with only a couple alliances, the one i do have alot of respect for is BOB. Never understamated nor overstimated. Alway has his A game. unlike other Alliance like ascn that has to out number you by 2 in order to get a fight, or over Nanostab thier ships.
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Exile Devaltos
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Posted - 2006.03.21 03:52:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Mangus Thermopyle
Originally by: TheKiller8 Uh ASCN vs G/IRON blobs scared me.
Both we and G/IRON/Razor had nice blobs in d7 yesterday as well. Almost 400 in local, with roughly equal numbers.
I wonder if this is some kind of record for a 0.0 system.
Actually, ASCN has that record. We had over 400 in a local system and that was ASCN only! Imagine if G/IRON had been there
/me shudders at the thought of how bad the lag would be with over 600 in local
Anyway, got to respect G/IRON's resolve for coming like 80 jumps from the north just to attack us in AZN.
Originally by: Wrangler Thats odd, I always drink after dealing with you people..  
|

Ramireza
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Posted - 2006.03.21 11:24:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Exile Devaltos
Anyway, got to respect G/IRON's resolve for coming like 80 jumps from the north just to attack us in AZN.
Jumps are REALY overrated 
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hired goon
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:08:00 -
[41]
Edited by: hired goon on 21/03/2006 12:16:43 I'm not going to comment on alliances I haven't seen first hand, so I'd have to say the little northern resident alliances that don't appear on the map. Sunstorm (which is FREGE and Ekliptika I think) and Opus can maintain a blob if they need to, even if they're not as agressive as IRON. Also Freelancer Alliance.
Don't underestimate!
As for larger alliances... I have to admit that 5 are proving much more of a nuisance than a 'dying' alliance ever should!  -omg-
|

Fred0
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:08:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ramireza Jumps are REALY overrated 
Yeah, when you've been around abit you really notice that they are all the same with a slight spread in the time it takes to make them.  ---
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Yazoul Samaiel
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:24:00 -
[43]
Originally by: hired goon Edited by: hired goon on 21/03/2006 12:16:43 As for larger alliances... I have to admit that 5 are proving much more of a nuisance than a 'dying' alliance ever should! 
OMG we are deing ?? and i just joined 5  
"S**** u guys i am going home " Cartman
Thats pure smack btw goon . "What ever that doesnt Kill me just makes me stronger"
|

FotoFlame
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:42:00 -
[44]
mordu's relief convoys? 
~Foto
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BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:52:00 -
[45]
A blob of The Enslavers 'alts camping a gate always make my knees go to jelly .
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Adril Alatar
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:54:00 -
[46]
i would say CVA is the most underrated alliance....
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: ggdgdggdg What Triad and TSBS do do though is fight even when odds don't favour them and you have to respect them for that...
Originally by: CtapikKozlodoyev My respect goes to the Triad. They are always there for the fight, and numbers matter not.
This is why i play the game... Glad people have noticed - for me, and for a lot of the Triad old players, pvp isn't about blobbing. It's about fighting even when the odds are fair or stacked against you. It's about not using stabs. It's about close range, long duration fights. And it's about the feeling you have when you take on over the odds and fricking kick ass doing it.
But hey, if i can't get that a kill's a kill 
As for alliances, I have to say the response time of CVA is pretty impressive, having recently moved up towards providence space for wars and stuff.
In the original FIX / BOB / SA / any other fecker who felt like joining in wars, it was always BOB that i respected more than any other alliance - for always bringing the fight, for engaging with even odds, and most of all for not running away and logging.
Never really got a great impression of the north, but haven't spent that much time up there.
Not sure if it's nostalgia kicking in or what but it seems that today's alliances don't like fighting for the fun of it. I remember when m0o corp would jump 15 bs in on 20 and hand you your behind on a plate. Ah well, there's still some people like that around, so i'll carry on playing :) In the end, if you've got an insured bs, is it not more fun to go out fighting than it is to sit in a ss? (This is probably why i lose a lot of ships )
sgb
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Rya Mayanaka
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Posted - 2006.03.21 12:57:00 -
[48]
I would say CONCORD has been underestimated many times  "I'm going to make your face into a Jigsaw puzzle and choke on the pieces" |

Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:00:00 -
[49]
Jericho Star Fraction.
They scare me to bits in GW.  ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |

ZedLey
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 13:06:00 -
[50]
Originally by: hired goon
As for larger alliances... I have to admit that 5 are proving much more of a nuisance than a 'dying' alliance ever should! 
Since when have we ever been Dying :/
|

Azaeren
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:22:00 -
[51]
Goonfleet and Goonwaffe

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welsh wizard
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 13:42:00 -
[52]
Originally by: pershphanie
Originally by: Hamatitio
Originally by: Tiwaz I would say FE. Didnt expect them to put up much of a fight. But they seem to have 1 or 2 things going for them.
tiw
5? :o
TBH im pretty sick of this attitude that we are some mining alliance and the5 fights our battles for us. Weve been around now for quite some time constantly under attack since our birth lived threw it all and gotten stronger through each wave of attacks. Thats more than luck and relying on other alliances. Get a clue.
As far as my choices its gotta be -V- and Morhus Mihi

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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.03.21 13:45:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Azaeren
Goonfleet and Goonwaffe

Those arent alliances. Those are oversized corps.   ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |

Oisin
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 14:06:00 -
[54]
In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
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Geralt Rivia
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Posted - 2006.03.21 15:10:00 -
[55]
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
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Nifel
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 15:36:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Geralt Rivia
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
We suck. Everyone should attack Delve and take it over.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |

Jenny Spitfire
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 15:45:00 -
[57]
Actually CVA and UK are good alliances for PvP in a small scale, i.e. mutual war. Good for the busy, I think...  ----------------
RecruitMe@NOINT! |

Nafri
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 16:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Geralt Rivia
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
We suck. Everyone should attack Delve and take it over.
that would be overrated 
|

Nifel
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 16:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Nafri
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Geralt Rivia
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
We suck. Everyone should attack Delve and take it over.
that would be overrated 
Ah... true. They still should attack Delve ^^;.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |

Eyeshadow
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 16:54:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Nifel
Originally by: Geralt Rivia
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
We suck. Everyone should attack Delve and take it over.
Why do you think we moved into Period Basis? Delve is our next step 
As for the OP, Veritas surprised me alot. Most alliances we fight bend over and take it. These guys actually put up a good fight and it was great fun
My Latest Vid (16/02/06) |

Gatedeath
|
Posted - 2006.03.21 23:31:00 -
[61]
Before they packed up and left thier space. up to the end, NBSI fought damn hard for thier little size. They busted up several attempts at taking thier home system of S-E, wich we, to be honest, thought would be an easy task. Instead we ended up loosig 2 dreads, and a couple large POS's.
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2006.03.21 23:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Eyeshadow Why do you think we moved into Period Basis? Delve is our next step 
I've offered to pay for that once already so until you can get your carebear figurehead to sort his life out and accept a fat cheque from me to attack us you can stow that one 
Eve Blacklight Style
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Dahin
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Posted - 2006.03.21 23:57:00 -
[63]
I will have to agree with eyeshadow. We caught Veritas with their pants down the first days we randomly ended up in their space attacking. And they kept coming... and coming... every day more organized and never stopping.
I still remember murmurring: wtf? they're back again? I wanna get some sleep.
Since then ofc, they have shown this to be true all over the place. <3.
As for a single corp, CELES hands down. They are actually the only peole that i have EVER seen attacking us when they were uncertain who would win. Actually they even attacked when we even had the upper hand. Seriously, now that I think of it, celes is THE ONLY ONE who i've seen doing this (and as we do this a lot I can tell you it's VERY fun)
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Ehdolph
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:26:00 -
[64]
Vertigo Coalition packed way more nanos and stabs than I expected...does that count?
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Whorrid
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:56:00 -
[65]
The most underestimated Alliance...
And the winner is *drumroll*
5 BoB ASCN
Because they are one.
They should all just get together and call themselves the 1 Alliance. Not the 5, not silly BoB or ASCN, just 1 or 0.5 + 0.5 or 3-2
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Lain Khazar
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 12:15:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Whorrid
They should all just get together and call themselves the 1 Alliance.
At least it would be official then  -- WTB: avatar-pic |

Maule
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 13:42:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Maule on 22/03/2006 13:44:59
Originally by: Whorrid The most underestimated Alliance...
And the winner is *drumroll*
5 BoB ASCN
Because they are one.
They should all just get together and call themselves the 1 Alliance. Not the 5, not silly BoB or ASCN, just 1 or 0.5 + 0.5 or 3-2
Bob aint a silly alliance name, band of brothers perfectly descriptes what kinda alliance it is, a band of brothers
Oh as for underestimated alliances. morsus mihi. small but seems to be organised and willing to fight.
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Oisin
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 14:03:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Geralt Rivia
Quote: Underrated Alliances
Originally by: Oisin In a year and a half of Eve, flying into and out of fights, owning and being owned, the two alliances which stand out for me above all the rest are CVA and BoB.
hmm u wanna tell me that BoB is underrated? U can call BoB much, but underrated?
My mistake. All the same, I wouldn't call them overrated, fanbois or no fanbois...
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Eskiban Vlasic
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 16:08:00 -
[69]
Originally by: ZedLey
Originally by: hired goon
As for larger alliances... I have to admit that 5 are proving much more of a nuisance than a 'dying' alliance ever should! 
Since when have we ever been Dying :/
Do you know what those little quotes around the word 'dying' mean?
Protip: Goon is mocking the people that said you were a dying alliance
- Vlasic of TW Fame The Suicidal Newb F.R.E.E. Explorer |

BlackDog Rackh'am
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 18:10:00 -
[70]
I have been inactive for a long time, quietly training big skills, but i was lucky enough to be ingame for the fights with -V- (although i missed the first dreadnought kill).
I didn't know anything about them when we attacked them. Classy bunch of guys, we never had a problem maintaining our no smack policy with them. It was a privilege fighting these guys, they seemed to be taken by surprise initially as Dahin said, but they kept coming.
They brought a lot of numbers and we were forced to pick off ships under the nose of their fleets more often than not, with the occasional BS slugfest when we had more or less even numbers. Usually it was 20-30 NBSI with 30-50 or more hostiles in local and reports coming in of camps in surrounding systems, we mostly in t2 frigs/cruisers and a few BS, they in BS mostly, the ever present peperammi with his claw and some eagles (they have a LOT of eagles). We didn't complain about their numbers and they didn't complain about our hit and run tactics, not one single time. We didn't enjoy these fights because they were easy or difficult, we enjoyed them because our enemies behaved like true sportsmen and not like children having a fit.
They would bait us, we would try to kill the bait and warp out, sometimes it worked and sometimes we lost, and this happened for hours on end until we could gradually pick off enough of them to even the numbers and engage head on.
Numerous adrenaline rushing incidents come to mind. Killing an Eagle 50km from the gate their whole fleet was jumping through, i got tackled and just as i was focusing on the taranis will fireblade comes and chases him off, while one of our cruisers was dying.
On another occassion we warped in for a BS fight, lost a couple of BS REALLY quick and i was forced to cover our battleships warping out. Chasing peperammi's claw in my vaga i was left alone and became primary before i knew what happened. I was sooo lucky not to get scrambled, i made it out with 10% shields.
No oversized egos, no arrogance, no bragging, no gloating over victories, no excuses after a lost fight, just fighting and lots of it. It was so action packed that the "killmail before downtime" was a daily occurence. We would go looking for a fight in a gang of 2-3 people about half an hour before the server closed and actually find some -V- guys doing the same, have a small skirmish and go back to dock with mere minutes to spare before DT. Along with my noob days in Xetic and the 13 empire wars, this was the most fun time i've ever had in EvE and a lot of that is because of the respectable attitude displayed by the pilots of -V- 
Originally by: Black Lotus I vote u for KIA spokesperson.
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Darko1107
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Posted - 2006.03.22 18:30:00 -
[71]
Goons intelligent jokes are completely lost on the [5].  
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Wilfan Ret'nub
|
Posted - 2006.03.22 19:41:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Maule Bob aint a silly alliance name, band of brothers perfectly descriptes what kinda alliance it is, a band of brothers
Who's that Bob guy everyone is talking about? Your uncle?
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Zekk Pacus
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Posted - 2006.03.23 02:07:00 -
[73]
I doubt ASCN can be called underrated but I was very impressed by the way they rallied forces a few days ago when we were hunting what we thought was a solo dictor and the way their solo pilots kept their nerve to gain intel even when being fired upon.
How about most overrated?
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Selpy
|
Posted - 2006.03.23 12:45:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Zrevak Ashek Edited by: Zrevak Ashek on 19/03/2006 22:11:01 The Triad. Maaaan these ppl are good
If they rejoined Fix, Fix would again be a force to be reckoned with...
From your lip's to God's ear's :)
I've always hoped that would happen one day, who know's it may.. Fly with STARHUNT of FIX
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Sir Nuke
|
Posted - 2006.03.23 13:42:00 -
[75]
we are overrated  French, Red, and nasty |

DeWieKat
|
Posted - 2006.03.23 16:48:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Whorrid The most underestimated Alliance...
And the winner is *drumroll*
5 BoB ASCN
Because they are one.
...
i just dont get how u could possibly underestimate these ones... all 3 of ¦em. 
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Tr4XX
|
Posted - 2006.03.23 17:06:00 -
[77]
F-E because they have been under attack for over a year and still stand strong Please reduce the filesize of your signature to be below 24,000 bytes - Jacques' |

Inbred
|
Posted - 2006.03.24 00:49:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Inbred on 24/03/2006 00:50:14
Originally by: Tr4XX F-E because they have been under attack for over a year and still stand strong
the only reason F-E lasted this long is because G/IRON fought all the northern wars for you....
all except the last one of course, but you gave in and nap'd them 
don't worry, i'm sure there's a small village in north wales somewhere that thinks you rock.
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Graelyn
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Posted - 2006.03.24 01:32:00 -
[79]
Wow, you'd think that making it to 3rd rnd in the Tourney (beating MC first) and being stopped by BoB would garner your 80 man alliance a bit of notice, eh 
Minister of Foreign Affairs - Aegis Militia Fleet Admiral/CEO - The Aeternus Crusade |

Hamatitio
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Posted - 2006.03.24 06:29:00 -
[80]
IRON beat G in the tournie and they are getting negative views too :|
3 v 3 combat doesnt represent an alliance though. ---
I Post on the forums for Fate. Im cool. Industrialists wanted |

Raid
|
Posted - 2006.03.24 06:38:00 -
[81]
hmmm underrated alliance... easy... -V-
they are bigger and stronger than a lot of people really know. They did more damage to F-E during the empire war fad than 5 did... and are the biggest force actively fighting RA in the south east. Oh and they have a cap2 bpo... their wealth is underrated..
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.24 06:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Inbred Edited by: Inbred on 24/03/2006 00:50:14
Originally by: Tr4XX F-E because they have been under attack for over a year and still stand strong
the only reason F-E lasted this long is because G/IRON fought all the northern wars for you....
all except the last one of course, but you gave in and nap'd them 
You must be high. Name one war g/iron fought for us.
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SumMeiWhine
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Posted - 2006.03.24 08:56:00 -
[83]
Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 24/03/2006 09:03:47
Originally by: pershphanie You must be high. Name one war g/iron fought for us.
being the main protectors of the pureblind entry points they eliminated any potential threats to northern alliances, directly or indirectly. besides the fact that these powers only exist in the north because they installed them they also have had a rich history of responding to north-eastern 'distress calls' with no support in return.
FE is definately underrated though, who would have thought that a dying alliance would turn on the only people that had any faith left in them.
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.24 09:17:00 -
[84]
Edited by: pershphanie on 24/03/2006 09:18:40
Originally by: SumMeiWhine Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 24/03/2006 08:57:00
Originally by: pershphanie You must be high. Name one war g/iron fought for us.
being the main protectors of the pureblind entry points they eliminated any potential threats to the northern alliances, directly or indirectly. besides the fact that these powers only exist in the north because they installed them they also have had a rich history of responding to north-eastern 'distress calls' with no support in return.
but anyways that was long before you blew it and backstabbed the only people that had any faith in you.
Lol. G installed us? I seriously doubt that if G had their pick they'd put us anywhere. That BS*****y attitude that G/IRON are above the rest of us doesnt help your cause at all. I think just about everyone has had enough of that superiority complex.
As far as protecting entry points pa/nbsi/fe all used entry points in tribute (p3 and m-o) to get to empire. We were never under threat of anyone attacking us from pure blind so dont make it sound like we owed them something for that. As far as the 'many' occasions where G/iron/rzr came to our aid I can think of one occasion where G sent a fleet to tribute to back us up. While that was a nice gesture it doesnt constitue us keeping their hostile/friendly list for all eternaty. I dont know how we 'backstabbed' g/iron. They set us to -10 and attacked us, not the other way around. I guess if you call 'blowing it' living to be bigger and stronger than ever then yes, we really blew it.
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Ice Breaker2
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Posted - 2006.03.24 09:51:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Ice Breaker2 on 24/03/2006 09:54:01
Originally by: SumMeiWhine Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 24/03/2006 09:03:47 being the main protectors of the pureblind entry points they eliminated any potential threats to northern alliances
LOL G/IRON =Eve Police, coming to save the mother F****g day yeah..
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Turin
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:20:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tr4XX F-E because they have been under attack for over a year and still stand strong
Pfft. F-E is OVER rated IMO. I fought them recently, and when you could get them to undock, they got spanked. We beat the snot out of them. The only reason F-E has our former space is because The 5 mostly did it for them. We willingly gave up S-E NOT because we were afraid of F-E / KAOS. We felt as though we could hold them off all year long. But We knew we couldnt withstand 5.
KAOS were good opponents. They lost thier engagements against us as well, but were at least willing to try.
( this post is reflecting on when I was in NBSI, wich is no longer the case )
________________________________________________________
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Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.03.24 18:40:00 -
[87]
Originally by: BlackDog Rackh'am the ever present peperammi with his claw and some eagles (they have a LOT of eagles).
Hehehe. I really miss that war :( easily the most fun and best times V had. Maybe another time. 
As for the op, I never expected NBSI to be the type of fighters they were, good fun, pleasant and really really in it for all the right reasons. To have a laugh. All that and they were pretty much the perfect counter-challenge to V at that time.. Good fun all round.
Since then I've fought F-E, MC, PA, RA, SNU, FFA and some IMP.. None of them really surprised me in their tactics or style except for individual corps in each those alliances (Altz, MLM, even CWRA :P). MC were of course very organised and diciplined with solid tactics, high quality ships and decent setups.. But we expected that 
[Art of War][- V -] |

D'Jannek
|
Posted - 2006.03.24 19:06:00 -
[88]
Hmm.
V were a bit of an unknown quantity when they first showed up in the Wildlands, though it soon became apparent that they're an extremely well-organised PVP force, and more importantly a great bunch of guys.
So it didn't really come as a surprise when we had so much fun fighting them in the bigass empire war :)
Also Morsus Mihi have a hell of a bite for a relatively small alliance, and again are very good people.
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SumMeiWhine
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Posted - 2006.03.24 20:27:00 -
[89]
Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 24/03/2006 20:30:22
Originally by: pershphanie blah
you can deny it all you want, being an ex-FE pilot i know exactly what went on. there are ways to become bigger and stronger without having to side with an entity that was prepared to kill you if you hadn't bent over for them. you are no better than any other defeated alliance that signs their pride away, hense i and many others refuse to fight for your bullsh*t cause.
i'd sooner sign-on in jita. 
now be a good little information minister and reply with some more BS
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.25 06:16:00 -
[90]
Originally by: SumMeiWhine Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 24/03/2006 20:30:22
Originally by: pershphanie blah
you can deny it all you want, being an ex-FE pilot i know exactly what went on. there are ways to become bigger and stronger without having to side with an entity that was prepared to kill you if you hadn't bent over for them. you are no better than any other defeated alliance that signs their pride away, hense i and many others refuse to fight for your bullsh*t cause.
I'd like to know exactly how we bent over for anyone. We didnt have to give up anything. We just both realized we were the only ones showing up for fights while everyone else was slacking off so we decided everyone else needed to die. And we are much better than other defeated alliances since we are not defeated and came out stronger than ever. Weather or not you consider how we came out on top the right way to go about things is of little consequence. The result is the same. We are now stronger than ever and now have real allies who actually fight. Obviously you arent happy about the strategy we used to get where we are, but tbh you can blow me. Your opinion doesnt change anything and therefor doesnt count. So now you can sit in jita and cry with all the other losers while we continue to build our empire. enjoy.
btw - you use pretty strong words for an alt. maybe you wouldnt be so brave if you were posting with your main coward.
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SumMeiWhine
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Posted - 2006.03.25 06:54:00 -
[91]
Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 25/03/2006 07:00:53
Originally by: pershphanie I'd like to know exactly how we bent over for anyone. We didnt have to give up anything. We just both realized we were the only ones showing up for fights while everyone else was slacking off so we decided everyone else needed to die.
don't try and make out that giving-in to an invading alliance can be justified as being 'for the greater good'. i was there in TS when the majority of the upper management were being told about what you did for the first time and the reaction was very far from understanding. you got bent over and instead of standing proud you caved in, now you're no more than the fives *****es - so good luck finding that moral highground.
better to die on your feet than live on your knees - i'll take jita over that any day of the week. enjoy.
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.25 07:20:00 -
[92]
Edited by: pershphanie on 25/03/2006 07:20:47
Originally by: SumMeiWhine Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 25/03/2006 07:00:53
Originally by: pershphanie I'd like to know exactly how we bent over for anyone. We didnt have to give up anything. We just both realized we were the only ones showing up for fights while everyone else was slacking off so we decided everyone else needed to die.
don't try and make out that giving-in to an invading alliance can be justified as being 'for the greater good'. i was there in TS when the majority of the upper management were being told about what you did for the first time and the reaction was very far from understanding. you got bent over and instead of standing proud you caved in, now you're no more than the fives *****es - so good luck finding that moral highground.
better to die on your feet than live on your knees - i'll take jita over that any day of the week. enjoy.
You make no sense. You keep claiming we bent over. What did we actually lose? nothing. As far as your delusional idea of moral highground goes. How are we the5's *****es? Describe the activities we do that constitute us being anyones *****. Do we mine for them? no. Do we pay them isk? no. Do we fight along side of them and having fun? yep. I dont see how that makes us their *****. We arent exactly on our knees either. We are just as strong as ever, if not stronger.
You obviously arent too bright because you're whole arguement is based off of '*cry* omg you napped the5 *cry*'. When I ask what is it that we gave up or do for the5 to consider what we did bending over or makes us their *****es you respond with '*cry* omg you napped the5 *cry*'.
So do you have any substance to your arguement at all or are you just a coward crying behind an alt because you are not bright enough to adapt to eve in 2006?
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Lucian Alucard
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Posted - 2006.03.25 08:01:00 -
[93]
tbh FE impressed me tonight and it has been over a year since i have been next to allies of their caliber.
So I would FE to be the most under rated,they have a bit of dead weight but on the whole they are pretty good. ----------------------------------------------- Done is done Yes, there will be no taking back Every journey must come to an end All hail to the Gunslinger Beyond our reach, out of control |

SumMeiWhine
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Posted - 2006.03.25 09:35:00 -
[94]
Edited by: SumMeiWhine on 25/03/2006 09:40:12
Originally by: pershphanie You make no sense. You keep claiming we bent over. What did we actually lose? nothing.
thats priceless, maybe one day someone will sit you down and explain it all to you 
until then all the best with that 2006!
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.25 09:56:00 -
[95]
Edited by: pershphanie on 25/03/2006 09:58:39
Originally by: SumMeiWhine
Originally by: pershphanie You make no sense. You keep claiming we bent over. What did we actually lose? nothing.
thats priceless, you're actually asking me how is it that you could have been bent over because you didn't lose your territory? you're really not cut out for this at all are you. 
Yes I am actually asking that. quit dodging the question and give me a strait answer. What did we lose? did we lose military strenght? nope. did we lose territory? nope. Thats what counts the rest is just bull**** propaghanda. What did we gain? strong allies and the ability to grow stronger than ever. This is undeniable. We shed our ties with a bunch of weak northern alliances who called themselves allies so they could use us to prop them up and to fight their fights for them. If all we lost is the respect of a bunch of selfish npc hunters I'll take that trade any day of the week.
Hate mongering is not a moral value and your blind hatred of the5 does not give you the high ground. We made choice that was in the best interest of FE. Yes everyone in FE (including most of the leadership) was ****ed off at me when we told them about the nap. However now they understand it was the right move. You can like it, hate it, throw stones while hiding behind an alt all day long. Your opinion doesnt count. You can not change anything. You can flame me all you want. You can post with an alt but you cant hide from the truth. You are a coward.
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Clementina
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Posted - 2006.03.26 03:11:00 -
[96]
The most underrated alliance is NORAD. It outlasted IMP and it outlasted BoB.
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Seleene
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Posted - 2006.03.26 04:28:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Eyeshadow Why do you think we moved into Period Basis? Delve is our next step 
I've offered to pay for that once already so until you can get your carebear figurehead to sort his life out and accept a fat cheque from me to attack us you can stow that one 
I'll see you in London and we can discuss that again, Blacklight.  -
Who is the MC? Watch! |

agentsmitty
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Posted - 2006.03.26 06:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Clementina The most underrated alliance is NORAD. It outlasted IMP and it outlasted BoB.

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TWD
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Posted - 2006.03.26 06:46:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Clementina The most underrated alliance is NORAD. It outlasted IMP and it outlasted BoB.
Err, Imperium kicked out NORAD. NORAD were struggling. BoB came in and kicked out Imperium. This allowed NORAD to rebuild because we had very little presence in Outer Ring.
NORAD should actually be grateful towards BoB. |

Snodgey2004
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Posted - 2006.03.26 19:02:00 -
[100]
My vote goes to the CVA , as much as i'd hate to stroke their ego they are worse than CONCORD when it comes to killing unwanted guests , as for the most fun alliance to fight it has to be -BOB- , just for the reasons pointed out by SGB , tho' i can say they were never under estimated 
Not under-estimated again but the corps that form The Triad ( if it exsists ) kick some serious behind , plus they have Mindlles
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k starwind
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Posted - 2006.03.26 19:12:00 -
[101]
i will say that ascn is not given what it deserves. Yes everyone knows we have the best industry in the game but the fighting force in ascn is not to be messed with. G IRON RAZOR and a lot of friend all came into our space to try and beat us and after 2 months of constant fighting we lost a outpost for less than 2 days. the only reason we lost the outpost was due to the the reinforced mode of the enemy large pos. we might have lost more ships but we were fighting over 3 alliances and a lot of corps at the same time.
While they were saying among themselves it cannot be done, it was done |

Ituralde
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Posted - 2006.03.26 19:38:00 -
[102]
Oh? is GIRON unhappy because F-E is not subscribing to their twisted ideals of standings enclosurism? How priceless. Sucks when people think for themselves, doesn't it?
My vote clearly goes to F-E. Fear is the mind-killer. |

Death Merchant
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Posted - 2006.03.26 20:23:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Ituralde Oh? is GIRON unhappy because F-E is not subscribing to their twisted ideals of standings enclosurism? How priceless. Sucks when people think for themselves, doesn't it?
My vote clearly goes to F-E.
huh?
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Clementina
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Posted - 2006.03.26 22:30:00 -
[104]
Forsaken Empire is underrated. They deserve their own thread, but they don't seem to be getting that. Instead they have to content themselves with being flamed in this thread.
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Eskiban Vlasic
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Posted - 2006.03.26 22:57:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Ituralde Oh? is GIRON unhappy because F-E is not subscribing to their twisted ideals of standings enclosurism? How priceless. Sucks when people think for themselves, doesn't it?
My vote clearly goes to F-E.
I'm sure they have their own version of standing enclosurism, but you wouldn't care about that as long as they don't decide you're hostile.
- Vlasic of TW Fame The Suicidal Newb F.R.E.E. Explorer |

pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.27 01:11:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Eskiban Vlasic
Originally by: Ituralde Oh? is GIRON unhappy because F-E is not subscribing to their twisted ideals of standings enclosurism? How priceless. Sucks when people think for themselves, doesn't it?
My vote clearly goes to F-E.
I'm sure they have their own version of standing enclosurism, but you wouldn't care about that as long as they don't decide you're hostile.
Not really. We have entirly different standings than 90% of our friends. We do not subscribe to the set XXX to -10 or we will shoot you philosophy of G/IRON. Sure if one of our friends invites one of their friends up we usually set them to +10 to be good friends and neibors, but we do not try and force our standings on people as a way of manipulation. For example we kept red alliance at + after rat attacked us and we also have alot of celes's friends at +10. Most of the time we feel that who are friends chose to keep at + or - is none of our business.
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pershphanie
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Posted - 2006.03.27 01:14:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Clementina Forsaken Empire is underrated. They deserve their own thread, but they don't seem to be getting that. Instead they have to content themselves with being flamed in this thread.
I agree. The biggest problem with these forums is there are not enough threads flaming FE.
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Tiuwaz
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Posted - 2006.03.27 01:17:00 -
[108]
I'd nominate Morsus Mihi
Originally by: Oveur ****! Lets nerf it!
To the nerfmobile!
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Clementina
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Posted - 2006.03.27 02:00:00 -
[109]
Originally by: pershphanie
Originally by: Clementina Forsaken Empire is underrated. They deserve their own thread, but they don't seem to be getting that. Instead they have to content themselves with being flamed in this thread.
I agree. The biggest problem with these forums is there are not enough threads flaming FE.
If you guys had your own thread it wouldn't be all flames. I'm sure you can defend your position with intelligent discourse. Jericho seems to like it, so they might say something smart. Think on the bright side though, If you had your own thread, everything said would be on topic.
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madhapee
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Posted - 2006.03.27 03:15:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tiuwaz I'd nominate Morsus Mihi
signed
and -V- is quite good too, but everybody rates them high so you cannot call it underrated. :)
tbo, I find G/IRON/RZR good too.

Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 kbs, ty - Cortes |

HatePeace LoveWar
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Posted - 2006.03.27 09:52:00 -
[111]
Edited by: HatePeace LoveWar on 27/03/2006 09:54:21 I should really mention 4S, i know i said earlier something that contradicts this, but i had overlooked them.
They suprised us in a big way, for peeps like us its hard to swallow ur pride and say 'u owned us, gg'. But in that single morning they did, and it was well played.
Another discussion that has mutated in this thread seems to be that of FE being 5's *****es. This ammuses me highly and surely given 5's current operations people would actually consider us FE's *****.
However the people with the 'cluc'Know, and that is all that matters, know that FE & 5 are neither one anothers *****, but instead have a lot of respect for one and are prepared to work together to achieve common goals.
It's not a case of who wears the trousers in the relationship, because were both panty wearing mining newbs anyways.
Chimera & Fighter Sales |

Lucian Alucard
|
Posted - 2006.03.27 10:18:00 -
[112]
Can't we all just get along and mine veld in Revalations? ----------------------------------------------- Done is done Yes, there will be no taking back Every journey must come to an end All hail to the Gunslinger Beyond our reach, out of control |

Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.27 10:31:00 -
[113]
Wow, this post is uber flamebait :P
Can't say any particularly impress me. I can give you a page of alliances that only hold space by the fact that they have numbers, scare factor, and no skill at all, though :P
Testy's Eve Blog!
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larietta
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Posted - 2006.03.27 12:10:00 -
[114]
none i dont do silly things like that i treat every one the same
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Lowa
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Posted - 2006.03.27 15:19:00 -
[115]
I dont ever underestimate anyone. That will get you killed. I always go out thinking that I have to watch out and that around every corner there will be a gang waiting for me.
However, when you dont get what you think you will get the disapointment is kinda hard tbh. 
/LOWA ps. Persh, stop talking to the Alt you dont know where its been. Dirty Alt.
NSN - Forcing EVE reviewers to mine since 2003! |

Raeff
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Posted - 2006.03.27 15:37:00 -
[116]
Originally by: pershphanie
Originally by: Clementina Forsaken Empire is underrated. They deserve their own thread, but they don't seem to be getting that. Instead they have to content themselves with being flamed in this thread.
I agree. The biggest problem with these forums is there are not enough threads flaming FE.
yes plz, i need more reading material for when im bored at work
btw persh, why do we care what they think? i know i dont .. we got new friends now that actually back us up .. thats all that matters to me
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Shogun Chaos
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Posted - 2006.03.29 13:50:00 -
[117]
Originally by: ggdgdggdg What alliance have you come up against that actually packed way more punch than you expected?
bob alliance when they brought 10dreads and a carrier 
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Mistress Suffering
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Posted - 2006.03.31 18:48:00 -
[118]
Thought I'd throw out a random nod to Prime Orbital Systems.
Not an alliance you'd think of as a real PvP group, but they still managed to pull a better Kill:Loss ratio against us than groups with a better PvP rep (TSDS, IAC, etc...)
Specific credit should probably go to Zitek Deepspace Explorations who were significantly more effective than any of the other corporations within that alliance. Nice job guys.
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Hardin
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Posted - 2006.03.31 21:08:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Snodgey2004 My vote goes to the CVA , as much as i'd hate to stroke their ego they are worse than CONCORD when it comes to killing unwanted guests , as for the most fun alliance to fight it has to be -BOB- , just for the reasons pointed out by SGB , tho' i can say they were never under estimated 
Ah how nice. Especially when I blew you up not too long ago 
--------------------------------- Smiting pirates and terrorists since Sept 2003
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