I want to discuss something I had happen to me today in Eve. I was mining an Icicle belt in Warouh which is 0.5 security space when I had a Venture and another player that was not recorded in my logs attack my two deployed mobile tractor units. This gave them a criminal status as it was an unprovoked attack with no permission of a duel given. I defended my tractor unit with my drones and got the unrecorded player to retreat from bad damage with no shots put onto my Procurer.

I was then attacked by the other two ships that are recorded in the battle log below. All three players were blue criminal status by this stage and was expecting concord backup and tried to shield tank my procurer. By my understanding I needed to wait 25 seconds from when they started attacking my tractor units for the concord. I lasted a full minute with no backup and ejected from my procurer to save my clone which I just got away from being warp scrambled again.

Can someone please help me understand what happened?

2014.01.08 08:48:00

Victim: Rhonan Irwin
Corp: Imperial Academy
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Procurer
System: Warouh
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 20570

Involved parties:

Name: Tul Breetai (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.70
Corp: Impromptu Asset Requisition
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Venture
Weapon: Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 10677

Name: Dieter Rams
Security: -0.7
Corp: The Nommo
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Tristan
Weapon: Hobgoblin I
Damage Done: 9893

By attacking the group who were attacking the MTUs, you flagged yourself as available for PvP.

Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?

Be careful with that statement McCandless. Logging on to Eve flags you for PvP.

Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?

They use it like miners used to use Jetcans.

Only MTU has a tractor to suck up jetcans.

MTU for CSM.

(? Are we in Public School, whats with the surnames? just curious)

The MTU's were deployed for Icicle collection the be collected by myself after I filled them it creates a more profitable way of mining.



I guess what your all saying is I should of returned my drones to drone bay and waited them out?

My apologies Ramona. I thought you'd prefer to be called by your clan name.

Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked

Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked

But you can defend yourself. Thats sort of the point. They attack it, they get aggressed, you are allowed to counterattack.

But I think you mean CONCORD should do the work for you, and thats not their purpose Im afraid.

They were made like they are for amny reasons, one of which is that while they are useful in mining, it should encourage you to fly with escorts.

Alternatively, one of your corpmates using an orca.

Alternatively, just fly back and unload.

You arent.... afk mining... are you?

Cos that would be silly.

EDIT: I wouldnt prefer them to be as small as a secure container in return for immunity.

MTU for CSM: Its the sensible choice for a Happier New Eden

EDIT EDIT: Why cant you just pull it in when they turn up? Then all you risk losing is some ore?

I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?

I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?

[quote=Rhonan Irwin]

Kind Regards,

Ramona McCandless, MD, MEP, MsC, IDST, IDKFA, NOCLIP

MEP?

And there for a moment I thought you were respectable :-P

Excerpt from the Galactic Regulations on Capsuleer-Deployable Mobile Structures :

Chap. 2 Sect. A
CONCORD will not, and may not be called upon to, defend, safeguard or take any protective stance regarding the Capsuleer-deployed Mobile Structures such as, but not limited to, Mobile Tractor Units, Siphoning Units and Mobile Depots.
The operational safety of the Structure and the protection of the New Eden civilian personnel assigned to these Structures falls solely under the responsibility of the anchoring Capsuleer.
Capsuleers are allowed to defend their property, however no CONCORD assistance will be provided and subsequent requests to aid against the aggressors will be ignored.

I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?

Thank you for the comment I now fully understand the error from my actions. This will mean an end of my use of MTU's considering the side effects.

I'm an expert at blowing my boats up...and finding myself in situations which imply smoke and twisted metal shards popping out through my capsule shell.

. An MTU uses 100 cubic metres of your cargo hold and cannot be pulled in while any cargo in inside them.

Both units had cargo and I was using them because of travel time effects efficiency which is the reason for the MTU's.

I could not take the cargo from any MTU as at the time I was full or to far away from the MTU being I had two out.

Only two ships were present at the time a Venture and an unknown T1 scanning probe frigate ship

I knew at that time I was able to defend my MTU's with my drones from the low. After the Slicer navy issue came in (it warped in) all my chances were scrambled and the slicer attacked my drones which then attacked him. That is when the warp tacklers came in and I thought I would be able to wait it out not knowing any better

An MTU has a capacity of 27 000 cubic meter's they are in game considered *secure* in the sense that only people in your fleet or yourself can access them. An MTU uses 100 cubic metres of your cargo hold and cannot be pulled in while any cargo in inside them. Both units had cargo and I was using them because of travel time effects efficiency which is the reason for the MTU's.

The Procurer has a cargo hold of 12 000 cubic metres and one Icicle is 1 000 cubic metres.

I could not take the cargo from any MTU as at the time I was full or to far away from the MTU being I had two out.

Only two ships were present at the time a Venture and an unknown T1 scanning probe frigate ship I knew at that time I was able to defend my MTU's with my drones from the low. After the Slicer navy issue came in (it warped in) all my chances were scrambled and the slicer attacked my drones which then attacked him. That is when the warp tacklers came in and I thought I would be able to wait it out not knowing any better

I would never in a million years put one of these MTUs out. The cargohold on a Golem is fine and the bonus to tractors is great. Once a room is clear it IS a pain in the ass getting all the wrecks and often I wait until a target is <40k out before firing so I don't have to slowboat to within the range of the tractors. Too often though the Battleship rats will sit out at >40k. Solution, MWD. That's right! I put a ******* MWD on a Golem for efficiency.

Posting in a "I don't know how mechanics work" thread...

MTU's are supposed to be used in nullsec for ratting. Using them in highsec is just a way to get yourself killed espacially if you set your drones to "aggressive".

Its an item


Its "supposed " to be used in any way you find useful

I want to discuss something I had happen to me today in Eve. I was mining an Icicle belt in Warouh which is 0.5 security space when I had a Venture and another player that was not recorded in my logs attack my two deployed mobile tractor units. This gave them a criminal status as it was an unprovoked attack with no permission of a duel given. I defended my tractor unit with my drones and got the unrecorded player to retreat from bad damage with no shots put onto my Procurer.

I was then attacked by the other two ships that are recorded in the battle log below. All three players were blue criminal status by this stage and was expecting concord backup and tried to shield tank my procurer. By my understanding I needed to wait 25 seconds from when they started attacking my tractor units for the concord. I lasted a full minute with no backup and ejected from my procurer to save my clone which I just got away from being warp scrambled again.

Can someone please help me understand what happened?

2014.01.08 08:48:00

Victim: Rhonan Irwin
Corp: Imperial Academy
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Procurer
System: Warouh
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 20570

Involved parties:

Name: Tul Breetai (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.70
Corp: Impromptu Asset Requisition
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Venture
Weapon: Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 10677

Name: Dieter Rams
Security: -0.7
Corp: The Nommo
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Tristan
Weapon: Hobgoblin I
Damage Done: 9893

The MTU's were deployed for Icicle collection the be collected by myself after I filled them it creates a more profitable way of mining.



I guess what your all saying is I should of returned my drones to drone bay and waited them out?

A few mistakes here. One, blue is not a criminal status. It denotes a limited engagement - both parties have fired at the other.

Concord doesn't come for suspects (yellow), only criminals. Suspects, however, are open season for other capsuleers.

Stop expecting concord to come to the rescue, start making friends and learning to defend yourself.

Ok Chan(? Are we in Public School, whats with the surnames? just curious), but you know what I meant, it flags you for CONSEXUAL PvP

Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked

You commanded your drones to attack the shooter making yourself a suspect.

Shooting a suspect makes you also a suspect?

If this is true I've misunderstood the new flagging mechanic since it was introduced.

No, it starts a limited engagement between you and the suspect you shot.

... did you just say CONSEXUAL when you meant CONSENSUAL?

Is consexual PvP fighting during sex?

Yet another tale of easy highsec ganks provided by.....

someone not knowing better.

C'mon, let's have a comprehensive new pilot training course or popup warnings like "this device can be shot by anybody and shooting back makes you a target as well" and there will be rivers of tears from these highsec gankbears claiming "amusement park" and "dumbing down". How is it dumbing down when you rely on your target being dumb?

Umm, it's not really fair. That's not the right word to use.

The mechanic is functioning as it was meant to. The process has been described. In that regard it was "fair" as they didn't cheat, but the mechanic itself is largely unfair.

MTU's are given special priveledges for no logical reason other than CCP wanting an increase in PVP. You could remove CONCORD, thus increasing PVP too... that doesn't mean you should do it.

From EVE's wiki:
"Cargo containers and wrecks are considered valid property just like drones and ships. If you damage either, you are initiating aggression on its owner. If you are not in their corporation, or otherwise allowed to legally engage, then you should be ready for a security hit and Concord intervention."

Read that carefully, guys. CONCORD intervenes as they have attacked your property. That is the explanation given by CCP.
Why then, is an MTU not considered your property?

The answer is: It is. The MTU aggression mechanics are simply developed inconsistently with the other related mechanics.

I'm sure at a point CCP actually knew what they were doing... the game's quite wonderful so they must have. Can we hire those people back please?

I don't think many of the people you think will be crying rivers of tears will actually be doing so if this was the case. Do you know why? Because people will ignore it, just as they ignore the tutorials and the wealth of information about Eve that is widely available all over the internet. People can't be bothered to learn about the game they're coming to, what makes you think they'll bother with a new pilot course or popups that warn them of things (see the pre safety catch popup warnings and lowsec stargate warnings and the amount of wailing caused by clicking "don't show me this again" ). CCP can't patch stupidity, wilful ignorance or just plain laziness out of the game.

Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked

Get a combat ship and hunt them down.

That'll never happen. Clearly a lazy miner (using an MTU to scoop his jetcans), so the likelihood of him hunting them down is nil.

Not at all. Came across a corp of miners in my Enyo a few days ago who had an MTU out. I aggressed, they pulled it, and a vexor showed up. The Vexor attacked me, the miners all put their drones on me, and I killed the Vexor but only because the miners pulled their drones and warped out. Finished the fight with the Vexor with 13% structure left, went and got reps, came back...

And all the miners were there in battlecruisers and HACS. Put up a fight anyway, nearly killed a Cerberus, but they took me down. It was a very good fight, and it was put up by miners.

Not at all. Came across a corp of miners in my Enyo a few days ago who had an MTU out. I aggressed, they pulled it, and a vexor showed up. The Vexor attacked me, the miners all put their drones on me, and I killed the Vexor but only because the miners pulled their drones and warped out. Finished the fight with the Vexor with 13% structure left, went and got reps, came back...

And all the miners were back in battlecruisers and HACS. Put up a fight anyway, nearly killed a Cerberus, but they took me down. It was a very good fight, and it was put up by miners.

That organized? I'm thinking not 'miners' but combat pilots taking a break from operations whilst they shoot the breeze over mumble or something.

... they demonstrated... ...the capacity to defend themselves.

Definately not miners.

They use it like miners used to use Jetcans.

Only MTU has a tractor to suck up jetcans.

MTU for CSM.

No, but you are. This is called quote mining, because you are quoting me out of context. Allow me to rephrase: they demonstrated that all players have the capacity to defend themselves..

Oh, please. I make a joke, and you get your back up? Seems I harpooned a big one when I was fishing for minnows.

CCP determines can flipping is griefing.
CCP removes can flipping.
CCP returns can flipping under new mechanic.

Sounds about right.

I read the OP and I was honestly disgusted.

The depravity, perfidy, and sloth of highsec knows no bounds.

Some people don't get jokes straight away. Like autistic people, such as myself. But please, be a **** about it, this is EVE after all.