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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
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880
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Posted - 2014.01.14 18:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Yawn.........boring. No one living in their space is going to bother with this structure because of a measly 5%.
Either increase the bonus reward for having one in system, or increase the penalty for not having one in system.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
880
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Posted - 2014.01.14 21:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Instead of allocating developer resources to things that matter and need to be fixed or improved (POS mechanics....
Playing devils advocate for CCP....maybe they are doing just that. Consider 2 things, if you will.
1) The main hurdle to improving POS is the legacy code which CCP apparently can't touch, particularly as it applies to the Pos bubble.
2) We get a new bubble (the MSI) which projects a new effect (dscan jamming) over a bubble. This is linked to some new capabilities they've been developing.
Seems to me that these "new capabilities" could be used for removing OGB and a new POS system. Just saying... |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
881
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Posted - 2014.01.14 21:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
On the other hand.... dropping a few of these in all of the particular systems given to a particular renter would force them to either come and destroy it (creating a fight) or ceding 20% of all income made by everyone in that system.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
883
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Posted - 2014.01.14 22:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
MailDeadDrop wrote:So unless enough ESS units are allowed to get into the bonus range ( >100% to 105%) to make up that "5% across all nullsec bounties" reduction
Honestly, why not just do this? Will keep people from whining and moaning about their 5%.
Keep all bounties as they currently are with no ESS deployed. With ESS deployed gain 5% bounty but potentially loose 20% of income generated if someone else loots the ESS.
If locals don't want to risk it, they don't anchor one, and everything stays as is. If neutrals come in and put one up, you either form up to fight the neuts/kill the ESS or pay the 20% tithe for being risk averse.
Seems like a win/win to me. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
883
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Posted - 2014.01.14 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:Soldarius wrote:There is a much easier and more appropriate way to fix the issue: remove interdiction bubble immunity from interceptors. It was a terrible idea from the start. Now it is only getting worse. Ya when a dev's answer (kil2) on how to deal with nullified ceptors is "hide from them and hope they get bored and go away" you know something is stupid and unbalanced. Did that actually happen? Got a link where rise said that? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
884
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Posted - 2014.01.14 23:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:
Or the ratters just , I donno, log?
That's not an argument though. Ratting free of external intervention isn't some god given right. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
886
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Posted - 2014.01.15 00:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:And your alternative conflict driver is.... There is none. People who rat don't want to fight, they want to rat. And people who haul plexes in noobships don't want to fight either, they want to haul plexes in noobships. What's your point? |
PotatoOverdose
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886
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Posted - 2014.01.15 00:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rekkr Nordgard wrote: The point is that adding a deployable that doesn't harm them won't effect their behavior. Duh.
I think a neut deploying a deployable that reduces a group of carrier ratters' income by 20% will have a very distinct effect on their behavior.
I think if said ratters are renters and limited to a small number of systems, covering their handful of allowed ratting systems will have a very profound effect on their behavior.
As you so eloquently put: "Duh." |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
888
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Saangi Xhaxhu wrote: Why even mess around with the idea with the 5% bounty debuff in null?
I think the debuff is there to encourage people to deploy the module.
Currently in 0.0, if a neut enters local, the ratters dock up. Content for everyone, courtesy of the risk averse.
With an ESS, the idea might be: instead of docking up, someone (preferably many someones) will make a run for the cash box. When many someones meet at the cash box, content occurs.
Let's assume that a nullsec nerf is coming. Especially with carrier ratting, you'd be foolish to think that it wouldn't happen. Just like incursions were broken back in the day, so too is carrier ratting.
Now, CCP could just slap you in the face with a 5% - 10% bounty nerf, and that'll be the end of it. Ok. One option.
Second option: Slap you in the face with a 5% - 10% nerf, but give you the opportunity to make it back with a little extra on top. The catch is that you can't be a risk averse pansy.
Personally, I don't see how option 2 is any worse than option 1. Either way, your income is getting nerfed, but at least in option 2 you have the chance to negate the nerf. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
888
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Let's assume that a nullsec nerf is coming. Especially with carrier ratting, you'd be foolish to think that it wouldn't happen. Just like incursions were broken back in the day, so too is carrier ratting. You can't be serious. Carrier ratting is incredibly risky, so much so that most people with any sense regard it as stupid. With that much risk, they're entitled to an increased payout. And they don't really make that much more anyway. At one point, I might've agreed with you. But these days, the sheer amount of people ratting in carriers tells a weeee bit of a different story, I think. |
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
888
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:At one point, I might've agreed with you. But these days, the sheer amount of people ratting in carriers tells a weeee bit of a different story, I think. I've been able to fly a carrier for just over 24 hours now. I'm having a very hard time convincing myself it would ever be a good idea, especially considering the warp speed changes, the fact that forsaken hubs now have warp disrupting rats, and the fact that fighters are really not that good for applying damage to subcaps. If carrier ratting is being abused then it's carriers that need to be changed. Changing carriers for PvE would affect other parts of the game. And in this case, even nerfing drone assist (which is what your coalition wants) wouldn't fix the issue.
The issue goes a bit beyond carriers. I can't be assed to find it, but I distinctly recall one of the past fanfest presentations showing bounties as one of (if not) the largest isk fountains in the game. Which makes sense.
Wormholes don't have an isk faucet. Facwar and missions are an isk faucet, but they're also an isk sink. To get the most out of your lp you need to put in a fair amount of isk. Incursions are another isk faucet, but that has been nerfed pretty substantially.
If there's too much raw isk coming in from nullsec, that may be a problem. If that's the case, a nerf will come one way or another. At least with the ESS, the non risk averse have a chance to avoid most of the effects of such a nerf. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
888
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Posted - 2014.01.15 03:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sal Landry wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: What's the w-space isk faucet?
The vast majority of value from high end wormholes is in blue loot, which generates isk from npc buy orders. Well I'll be damned, he's right. I guess it has been quite a few years since I've lived in a wormhole, I've forgotten a few things. Anyway, my overall point still stands I think.
James Amril-Kesh wrote: Maybe then nullsec bounties could be reduced slightly (5% perhaps) and to compensate for the reduction they would also pay out CONCORD LP?
It could be done in such a way that null ratters would make more than they do now (as they should) but there would be less of a faucet and more of a sink involved.
Sure, go for it. Put it in F&I. My only point was, and is, that a nerf + ESS (giving the non-risk averse a chance to avoid said nerf) is better than a straight up nerf, which is likely coming.
Maybe the ESS makes some null bears a little less risk averse. Maybe your suggestion gets more people into nullsec. Doesn't make a huge difference to me either way. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
888
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Posted - 2014.01.15 04:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Selnix wrote: TL:DR = Super Friends have created a mobile deployable bubble with comparable range to a medium T2, smaller cargo volume requirements, around triple the raw EHP, half the onlining time without the need to stick around to anchor it, a vast skill requirement reduction to Anchoring II, a beacon that will allow your friends to warp in on the target even if you were to be explodified, and a shiny notification to let you know when there is someone inbound to it (mother of drag bubbles).
This bit is quite amusing though. I wonder what they were doing the entire time they were developing it. Its stuff like this that makes me think it might not be bad if the development process was a bit more transparent to the community at large. Well, this and the SoE BS. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
895
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation.
Called it.
Dibblerette wrote: Are you serious?
You have Faction Warfare, Incursions and L4s that are disgusting amounts of income, and you pick on null rats?
Fac War, L4, and Incursions all come with an isk sink in the form of an LP store, which you pretty much have to use to maximize isk/hr. Incursions have also been nerfed.
How out of date are those minutes again? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
896
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: How out of date are those minutes again?
They are the most recent minutes and there has been no significant changes to nullsec ratting between then and now that would suppose it was out of date. SoniClover is wrong about isk faucets being a problem, and I know that because the independent CCP employee whose job it is to look at the data and understand what it means reviewed the data closely and said so. The same independant employee that said tech was fine? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
897
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Posted - 2014.01.16 00:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Weaselior wrote: SoniClover claimed the bounties were an economic problem, and he's wrong.
Ah yes, I forgot that Goonswarm receives the same up to the minute metrics from CCP that are available to the devs. My apologies, Goonsire. Clearly, that's how you know he's wrong, right? Right?
Honestly, most of the posts in this thread can be summed up as: "Boohooohooo, I don't want to fight for my 5%" |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
897
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Posted - 2014.01.16 01:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Xaerael Endiel wrote: The ESS is literally the most pointless thing ever made
That's not true, it makes an excellent medium warp disruptor.
I agree that the ESS is a pointless item in general, but most of the people aren't complaining about the ESS, they're complaining about their income getting nerfed. We don't have the up-to-date metrics available to us to know if it is warranted. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
898
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Posted - 2014.01.16 01:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
Xolve wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:I agree that the ESS is a pointless item in general, but most of the people aren't complaining about the ESS, they're complaining about their income getting nerfed. We don't have the up-to-date metrics available to us to know if it is warranted. Nerfing an income source that supports at MAX maybe 5 simultaneous users in a fully upgraded system with decent true sec (that an alliance is paying for) seems a bit strange when Level 4 missions can support an infinite number of pilots, with little to no risk. As has been stated repeatedly, missions come with an isk sink: the lp store. In order to get maximum isk/hour, you need to sink much of the raw isk you make from isk payouts into the lp store, taking that isk out of circulation. Then you sell the LP store items on the market to get your most isk/hr.
If I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be) the problem isn't that income in null is too high, the problem is that ISK coming out of null it too high. Those two are not the same thing, e.g.when you get a deadspace drop and sell it on the market, your income goes up, but you inject no isk into the market. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
898
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Posted - 2014.01.16 01:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xolve wrote: Somebody, somewhere is paying for that Sov (and it costs quite a bit more than the paltry costs of a few lp store items);
Your paltry sov fees are nothing compared to the amount of isk sunk in the lp stores by tens of thousands of people each day, every day.
Jenn aSide wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: If I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be) the problem isn't that income in null is too high, the problem is that ISK coming out of null it too high. Those two are not the same thing, e.g.when you get a deadspace drop and sell it on the market, your income goes up, but you inject no isk into the market.
Then the fix is replace some of the bounties with CONCORD LP like incursions. In-game CONCORD is the source of the bounties anyways. A null pve player would need to physically move the pve toon to the nearest empire CONCORD station to cash in, with would be a further isk sink because the pve toon isn't ratting right then (though the time can be minmized by jump cloning and death cloning). Sure go for it.
See, I think the problem for CCP isn't "Those people make too much money in total safety" (hisec) or "that region has a per capita income that is too high!"
I think it's much simpler than that. I think the raw amount of isk coming out of nullsec and being injected into the market is too high for CCP's liking. Nothing to do with income from linemembers. Keep in mind that total amount of isk in the economy affects everyone and everything. Nerfing hisec won't fix the problem if most of the raw isk isn't coming from hisec, for example. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
900
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xaerael Endiel wrote: Sov should be the most valuable ground in the game bar none.
Debatable, could make an argument for WH's, but not really relevant to the topic at hand.
Xaerael Endiel wrote: I hope people's primary concern is based on those two things, and condensed into the simple fact that Sov is increasingly becoming worth less and less, and heading to the brink of becoming a pointless endeavour.
I understand where your coming from, I too live in nullsec. But where you're coming from is an income problem, not an isk problem.
CCP has an isk problem that they apparently are choosing to fix now. |
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
900
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Turelus wrote:
* Why the 5% loss in bounties instead of just making the module appealing on its own?
Because the ISK coming into the game from Null Sec bounties every day is insane and we want to minimize inflation. lmfao you actually have no idea do you I thought that was evident from the beginning. And this ladies and gentlemen, is how you get the devs to ignore every single thing you say. Well done. *golfclap*
It is entirely possible for too much isk to be coming out of nullsec without income in nullsec being too high. The two are not mutually exclusive. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
901
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Blawrf McTaggart wrote: stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about
Constructive posting at it's finest. Would it strain you overmuch to elaborate on what I said in the last two pages or so that is incorrect? Or would that be too hard? |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
902
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote: stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about
Constructive posting at it's finest. Would it strain you overmuch to elaborate on what I said in the last two pages or so that is incorrect? Or would that be too hard? nothing you said had any merit to elaborate on it was just wild conjecture, all of which was wrong, which i did point out and you just bounced to new wrong wild conjecture Where exactly did you point out any source that said I was wrong? CCP said their is too much isk coming out of nullsec, which is entirely possible. Where exaclty is your up to date source that contradicts this, oh goonsire?
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
902
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Querns wrote:Blawrf McTaggart wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote: It is entirely possible for too much isk to be coming out of nullsec without income in nullsec being too high. The two are not mutually exclusive.
stop posting when you don't know what you're talking about Take your own advice -- this guy is one of the few posters in this thread who actually understands the difference between income and isk generation.
It's good to see reasoned, thought out proposals for change. +1 |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
902
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Posted - 2014.01.16 02:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Where exactly did you point out any source that said I was wrong? CCP said their is too much isk coming out of nullsec, which is entirely possible. Where exaclty is your up to date source that contradicts this, oh goonsire?
Our source would be the CSM summer summit minutes, where Dr. EyjoG specifically stated that isk faucets are not a problem in their current state. You know, the guy actual economist they hired to know this kind of **** in the first place. I'm pretty sure he understands the economy better than codemonkey dev who'd rather be working for Sega. Funny, your economic cabal people seem to agree with my points. vOv |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
938
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Posted - 2014.01.22 21:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote: So now you **** over every empire mission runner? Wow. you are some piece of work.
Not really, it's just more competition on the production side of lp markets.
Consider what would happen if a portion of renters and nullbears moved to hisec after a null nerf. Yep, more people running missions/incursions = more competition in lp markets. Same result as before. |
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