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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:13:00 -
[1]
Hi all...
I have thrown a SP calculator together today, firstly because I wanted somthing to do and 2ndly coz I hate these stupid excel spreadsheet things.
It is not 100% complete yet as I dont have all the Learning skill IDs from the XMLData file (I dont have those skills yet), if someone wants to send me the IDs of the rank 2-3 learning skills, it would be awesome (ID and name), you can get the info from your char page, the XMLData link, look for "typeID".
Anyway, here it is, have a look and let me know what you think (requires .NET 1.1)
http://www.spacevs.com/EVE/SPCalc.zip 34k
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 05:41:00 -
[2]
The known Learning skills are:
-Analytical Mind
-Logic
-Empathy
-Spatial Awareness
-Iron Will
-Instant Recall
-Eidetic Memory
-Learning
Please submit the "typeID" and name of any skills I dont have listed here.
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Nyphur
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Posted - 2006.03.22 06:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nyphur on 22/03/2006 06:25:09
I'll wait for someone else to make sure this anonymous .exe file is kosher. No offence but you could have done it in a spreadsheet and avoided the suspicious nature of a 34k executable.
EDIT: On second thoughts, I'll just not download it at all. I'd really like something that could calculate SP and all but .NET has too much file access and I don't trust it.
Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources. |
Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 11:50:00 -
[4]
I cannot really say what does this application do.
I have downloaded it, but running it is impossible. You have some problems with arrays. (IndexOutOfBoundsException)
Actually what is it supposed to do? Calculate your overall number of SP or what?
Nyphur, .NET executables are allways bulky.
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Sig stolen again :( |
Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:10:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Usul Faust on 22/03/2006 12:13:30
 Originally by: Nyphur
Edited by: Nyphur on 22/03/2006 06:25:09
I'll wait for someone else to make sure this anonymous .exe file is kosher. No offence but you could have done it in a spreadsheet and avoided the suspicious nature of a 34k executable.
EDIT: On second thoughts, I'll just not download it at all. I'd really like something that could calculate SP and all but .NET has too much file access and I don't trust it.
Anything you run on your local computer has too much file access. even Jscript can make fileio calls.
although, weren't you the guy that demanded the 'source code' to a firefox .xpi the other day?
no skills, just luck.
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:25:00 -
[6]
TBH, there is nothing wrong even if this application will read all your EVE files. The only bad thing it can do is to install some trojan horse or key logger that will read your password.
Did anyone managed to run this thing?
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Sig stolen again :( |
paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: paramecium on 22/03/2006 12:35:02
Edited by: paramecium on 22/03/2006 12:33:23
Ok, here we go...
- its .NET coz thats what I have at work... I hate it myself and may re-write it later to a true app.
- it is not a virus, its just a util to calcualte your learning times based on your attributes.
- if it was a virus, i would loose my account with CCP coz its against the EULA to distrib such things (i think anyway)
- no spyware, nothing dangerous, if you want, you can get "reflector" and dissaseble it, see how clean it is.
- It is MORE accurate then the excel spreadsheet because has greater floating point accuracy.
.NET has too much fie access??? what are you talking about? .NET is interprited code, its disgusting stuff, I will give you that, but it deffinatly does NOT have as much access to low level system calls as C++ or any other unmanaged language, and as was stated by Koori, even a basic VBScript of JavaScript can read/write files.
Anyway, later I may re-write it in Delphi or C++ as a "real" application.
Quote:
Nyphur, .NET executables are allways bulky.
Actually, they are not, 127k is damn small for an application, mainly because it relies so heavily on the .NET framework, thats where the bulk is.
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:37:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Koori on 22/03/2006 12:37:47
Quote:
its .NET coz thats what I have at work... I hate it myself and may re-write it later to a true app.
As a proffesional .NET developer I cannot say that .NET applications are not "true". But that's not what this discussion is about.
I still cannot lunch it. Any ideas?
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Sig stolen again :( |
Ikvar
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:41:00 -
[9]
I love how whenever someone writes an app someone like Nyphur comes along and goes 'OMFG YUO 1337 ***** J00R TRY TO GIVE MY VIRUS!!!!!2211212140-8324039273287342983240-!!2'
Anyways, this app worked for me and it's actually pretty damn useful.
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:41:00 -
[10]
whats it do? it should ask for the xml file when you first open it.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:43:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ikvar on 22/03/2006 12:45:09
Ah, one thing is it's calculating my attributes wrong.
Int, Mem and Char it does OK but with Perc and Will it doesn't seem to be taking my advanced learning skills into account.
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: paramecium on 22/03/2006 12:43:15
Originally by: Ikvar
I love how whenever someone writes an app someone like Nyphur comes along and goes 'OMFG YUO 1337 ***** J00R TRY TO GIVE MY VIRUS!!!!!2211212140-8324039273287342983240-!!2'
Anyways, this app worked for me and it's actually pretty damn useful.
Thankyou, finally someone that appreciated my hard work (actually, only took a few hours).
Oh, and btw, I am also a professional developer or just about every language to x86 (including asm), and even some 16F based PICs
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:45:00 -
[13]
as I mentioned, it will not calculate the learning skills properly until i get all the id's in there.
I have not been playing eve long enough to get the higher skills some of you have.
If you send me the XML file from your profile (chop out the stuff you dont want to send me, just leave the learning stuff) I will add it to the app tomorrow.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:47:00 -
[14]
Originally by: paramecium
as I mentioned, it will not calculate the learning skills properly until i get all the id's in there.
I have not been playing eve long enough to get the higher skills some of you have.
If you send me the XML file from your profile (chop out the stuff you dont want to send me, just leave the learning stuff) I will add it to the app tomorrow.
Can you send me your email address ingame and I'll send it over to you.
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ikvar
Originally by: paramecium
as I mentioned, it will not calculate the learning skills properly until i get all the id's in there.
I have not been playing eve long enough to get the higher skills some of you have.
If you send me the XML file from your profile (chop out the stuff you dont want to send me, just leave the learning stuff) I will add it to the app tomorrow.
Can you send me your email address ingame and I'll send it over to you.
Done, thanks mate.
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Ikvar
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:50:00 -
[16]
Or I could just post them here:
- <skill typeName="Focus" typeID="12386">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
<skillpoints>768000</skillpoints>
<level>5</level>
<skilllevel1>750</skilllevel1>
<skilllevel2>4243</skilllevel2>
<skilllevel3>24000</skilllevel3>
<skilllevel4>135765</skilllevel4>
<skilllevel5>768000</skilllevel5>
</skill>
- <skill typeName="Clarity" typeID="12387">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
<skillpoints>768000</skillpoints>
<level>5</level>
<skilllevel1>750</skilllevel1>
<skilllevel2>4243</skilllevel2>
<skilllevel3>24000</skilllevel3>
<skilllevel4>135765</skilllevel4>
<skilllevel5>768000</skilllevel5>
</skill>
Originally by: Avon
I actually enjoy crafting in EQ2.
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:51:00 -
[17]
Quote:
whats it do? it should ask for the xml file when you first open it.
It's lunching, asking for skill set XML.
I'm choosing xml.asp.xml file i have downloaded few minutes ago from EVE-O.
Then system is asking if I want to debug 'cause index of out bounds exception ocured.
I'll try it later on my home computer.
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Sig stolen again :( |
paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:53:00 -
[18]
thats really wierd, if you could send me the XML it would be great, I will try and reproduce it tomorrow when I add the extra skills to it.
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 12:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: paramecium
thats really wierd, if you could send me the XML it would be great, I will try and reproduce it tomorrow when I add the extra skills to it.
I'll do it right after returning home. Please evemail me your e-mail address. I'll be at home in around 3-4 hours.
I'm finishing chat log reader for EVE atm. What do you guys think. Will it be usefull?
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Sig stolen again :( |
paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:02:00 -
[20]
Edited by: paramecium on 22/03/2006 13:02:27
done, thanks everyone for helping to get it right :D
whats your app do? if you want someone to test it, give me a holler.
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Usul Faust
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:04:00 -
[21]
A log reader would be quite handy, actually.
I wonder if you can address file:/// locations through the igb? it would be nice to build an in-game chatlog reader.
no skills, just luck.
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Ray McCormack
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:22:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Koori
I'm finishing chat log reader for EVE atm. What do you guys think. Will it be usefull?
Yes, if it can handle my 16'000 odd logs.
There is one out there, but it crashes understandably on me.
| The BIG Lottery | BIG Sales | 666057 | |
Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:28:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Yes, if it can handle my 16'000 odd logs.
There is one out there, but it crashes understandably on me.
Yeah. I think it wil be able to handle this. Loading times will be slightly longer, and RAM usage will be higher, but if that's no problem then it can be app for you
paramecium, sorry for thread hijack.
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Sig stolen again :( |
Balthar Minir
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:39:00 -
[24]
not sure if you have done it yet.. but here they all are
- <skillGroup groupName="Learning" groupID="267">
- <skill typeName="Analytical Mind" typeID="3377">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
- <skill typeName="Clarity" typeID="12387">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
- <skill typeName="Eidetic Memory" typeID="12385">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
- <skill typeName="Empathy" typeID="3376">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
- <skill typeName="Focus" typeID="12386">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
- <skill typeName="Instant Recall" typeID="3378">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
- <skill typeName="Iron Will" typeID="3375">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
- <skill typeName="Learning" typeID="3374">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
- <skill typeName="Logic" typeID="12376">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
- <skill typeName="Presence" typeID="12383">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>3</rank>
- <skill typeName="Spatial Awareness" typeID="3379">
<groupID>267</groupID>
<flag>7</flag>
<rank>1</rank>
</skillGroup>
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:41:00 -
[25]
Nice little App :)
I uploaded a copy of my .xml Here, I'm currently at about 208 skills so there are probably a few you are missing.
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2006.03.22 13:58:00 -
[26]
I don't have .NET so I haven't been able to try this out.
But my Java based skill planner (yes, I hate excel tables too  ) has all the skills that I know of in an XML file and adding typeid as an attribute shouldn't be a problem but I've never bothered with the IDs because it uses the skill names.
It is also possible to get the IDs using the online item database, the skill url is the "typeid.asp".
The other option is using the RMR data export from t20, then you will have all of the skills and their IDs in one go. I have all that data loaded into a DB already and could make a small text file containing the IDs for you if that would help, just let me know.
Glad to see other players joining the "EVE Community Developer" arena 
--
Mini Skill Planner |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:13:00 -
[27]
Originally by: paramecium
Ok, here we go...
- It is MORE accurate then the excel spreadsheet because has greater floating point accuracy.
LOL. Yes, it has greater floating point accuracy, but WGAF if the skill time is off by a few seconds in a whole year of skill training? lol
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Now run along and play with your dolls...
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Jaabaa Prime
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Posted - 2006.03.22 14:18:00 -
[28]
I exported the data anyway.
You can get it here: http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/DAW/eve-skills.txt
(It only contains skills that are available on the market)
Hope this helps 
--
Mini Skill Planner |
Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 16:46:00 -
[29]
I have sent you my skillset for testing.
It's also a friendly bump :-)
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Sig stolen again :( |
Gottaa
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Posted - 2006.03.22 17:01:00 -
[30]
Could of minor suggestions.
Clicking on the Rank up and down arrow triggers a re-calc correctly, add the re-calc on the exit event of that field as well.
It would also be nice to see say a treeview of current skills with perhaps next to them the time it would take to learn the next level in that skill ?
Very nice though :)
Oh one other possible if it can link to the XML on the website rather than a file (no idea about that in .NET, I try and avoid web stuff :)) and in the future moving to some info being stored in the registry for say character ID or file location.
S'good so far though :)
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.22 17:13:00 -
[31]
Quote:
it can link to the XML on the website rather than a file (no idea about that in .NET
To do that you would need to input your login and password. I of course think that Paramecium is a nice guy and he wont use it. But do you really want to give your password?
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Sig stolen again :( |
paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:15:00 -
[32]
Edited by: paramecium on 22/03/2006 23:16:55
The app has been updated, I have corrected the bug that was causing some of you issues, and added:
Focus, Clarity and Presence
to the list of recognised skills.
It will also tell you of ones it doesnt know, and the ID, so if you get the message, tell me and I will add the missing skill to the app.
As far as extra features, this app wont have any... but I am looking at other things, like a skill tree planner that will help you train your skills as effective as you can.
Thanks everyone for your support so far.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:18:00 -
[33]
Don't trust downloadable programs on the internet. Ever.
Especially not when they are made for a select target audience.
Your preferred anti-virus/anti-spyware/intrusion detection software probably wont be able to detect a new, handmade keylogger, troyan horse, rootkit, what not.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:19:00 -
[34]
oh, and about floating point accuracy... the excel sheet would get out by about 3 secons for a 7 min training time... once you got up to rank 5, it equated to hours/days out.
Floating point accuracy in serial times makes a world of difference.
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Tachy
Don't trust downloadable programs on the internet. Ever.
Especially not when they are made for a select target audience.
Your preferred anti-virus/anti-spyware/intrusion detection software probably wont be able to detect a new, handmade keylogger, troyan horse, rootkit, what not.
Another noob that decides to attack what they dont understand. As i stated above, dissasemble the application before running if if you dont believe me. The sourcecode is even avaliable on request. Get over your problems noob.
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gottaa
Could of minor suggestions.
Clicking on the Rank up and down arrow triggers a re-calc correctly, add the re-calc on the exit event of that field as well.
Done :D
Originally by: Gottaa
It would also be nice to see say a treeview of current skills with perhaps next to them the time it would take to learn the next level in that skill ?
On my list for the next app mate.
Originally by: Gottaa
Very nice though :)
Thanks :D
Originally by: Gottaa
Oh one other possible if it can link to the XML on the website rather than a file (no idea about that in .NET, I try and avoid web stuff :)) and in the future moving to some info being stored in the registry for say character ID or file location.
I would prefer to stay away from retrieving the account details at all because of the paranoia of some people. Also using anything that connects to the internet makes people suspect the application, its better if its just a standalone app.
Next version I am thinking of using a SQLite database to store all sorts of stuff... but still thinkin about what to do there.
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Druth
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:37:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Druth on 22/03/2006 23:38:09
Originally by: Tachy
Don't trust downloadable programs on the internet. Ever.
Especially not when they are made for a select target audience.
Your preferred anti-virus/anti-spyware/intrusion detection software probably wont be able to detect a new, handmade keylogger, troyan horse, rootkit, what not.
Agreed.
Para, what 'noob' is going to have the uber-skills to dissasemble an application?
You app sounds really useful mate, but you can't expect people to download this from some random. Maybe if you made the source freely available (without request, on sourceforge or something) then people would trust it more and may be able even to contribute to make it better...you can't blame people for being cautious.
Anyway, good luck, sounds like it has potential
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:43:00 -
[38]
A) I am a programmer and program designer.
B) I have been doing security for an insurance company and assisting a bank house for a few years.
B) Personal attacks are against the TOS.
main_Attrib and secondary_Attrib are listed in the description of the skill you're calculating the time for.
SP/minute = (main_Attrib + secondary_Attrib / 2) * (1 + 0.02 * learning_Skill)
Where do you run into problems with floating point calculations?
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.22 23:50:00 -
[39]
Originally by: paramecium
oh, and about floating point accuracy... the excel sheet would get out by about 3 secons for a 7 min training time... once you got up to rank 5, it equated to hours/days out.
Floating point accuracy in serial times makes a world of difference.
erm, and you're doing what exactly? how does
skill 1+ (skill2)/2 make a hard float number?
my excel spreadsheet is accurate to the second for a three week skill...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
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Now run along and play with your dolls...
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.23 00:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tachy
A) I am a programmer and program designer.
B) I have been doing security for an insurance company and assisting a bank house for a few years.
B) Personal attacks are against the TOS.
main_Attrib and secondary_Attrib are listed in the description of the skill you're calculating the time for.
SP/minute = (main_Attrib + secondary_Attrib / 2) * (1 + 0.02 * learning_Skill)
Where do you run into problems with floating point calculations?
A - So what, I know plenty of people that claim to be programmers who only can dabble in VB.
B - Who cares? I host numerous web/email servers for companies in AUS. Also design and output custom security solutions on demand.
C - Fair enough.
Floating point...
I was using an excel sheet that had calculations in the cells, not macros... they were truncating the value. With a real app, or a excel sheet that uses macros this isnt a problem.
My calc is different, I am not sure where i got it from, but it seems to work. If yours is more accurate tho I will use it instead.
(SkillPoints * Rank) / (Primary + (Secondary / 2))
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Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.23 00:10:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Sensor Error on 23/03/2006 00:10:23
Originally by: paramecium
Originally by: Tachy
A) I am a programmer and program designer.
B) I have been doing security for an insurance company and assisting a bank house for a few years.
B) Personal attacks are against the TOS.
main_Attrib and secondary_Attrib are listed in the description of the skill you're calculating the time for.
SP/minute = (main_Attrib + secondary_Attrib / 2) * (1 + 0.02 * learning_Skill)
Where do you run into problems with floating point calculations?
A - So what, I know plenty of people that claim to be programmers who only can dabble in VB.
B - Who cares? I host numerous web/email servers for companies in AUS. Also design and output custom security solutions on demand.
C - Fair enough.
Floating point...
I was using an excel sheet that had calculations in the cells, not macros... they were truncating the value. With a real app, or a excel sheet that uses macros this isnt a problem.
My calc is different, I am not sure where i got it from, but it seems to work. If yours is more accurate tho I will use it instead.
(SkillPoints * Rank) / (Primary + (Secondary / 2))
my calculating spread sheet thing
That is accurate to the second...
although a pain to type all the data in, one of these days I might get round to doing the xml input thing.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls...
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paramecium
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Posted - 2006.03.23 00:22:00 -
[42]
sounds like the one I had was just crap, i have had a play with yours. Sounds like my calcs in the app may be off, if someone wants to give me the official calc in laymens (My maths is terrible :P) I will fix the app.
I am not a big fan of eXcel type apps, mainly because I dont use eXcel at home and the fact that they are more prone to tampering with (macro virii) then a general application. It may be only VBA, but VBA can do some pretty damned serious damage to the system if used in the wrong hands.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.03.23 01:04:00 -
[43]
Okay, I'll explain a little problem with my formula.
It is based on the base attributes, includung the implant effects.
Then it adds the effect of the learning skill.
When you use my formula applying the attribute values directly from the char sheet you run into the following problems:
The attribute points listed in the char sheet include the effect of the learning skill and the implant effects.
The learning skill has an effect even when the char sheet doesn't list a change.
The char sheet only shows full attribute points.
--*=*=*--
Megadon
CCP wanted a well known artist and celebrity to test the new font so it's approval would be well known. They got Ray |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:33:00 -
[44]
Ok, a full run down. (This is also how my spread sheet works). And I don't really like excel apps either, it's for a quick little tool, excel is a lot easier than farting about trying to code something :)
To calculate your attributes:
Base skill (you can either find this by experimentation, or you know it)
you then ADD the effect of any implants +3, etc, and learning skills +9 say.
If you had, for example 10 base intelligence, this would give 22 (well duh)
You then multiply by your learning, so at level 5 you would have 22 *1.1=22+2.2=24.2
Do this for all stats to show effective attributes.
note: Although the client does truncate these values when it displays them, it does use the proper version.
Working out the rate of skill point gain:
Primary attribute * (0.5*Secondary attribute)
so, if you had a skill that was for example
Primary: Int
Secondary: Mem
And both int and mem and effective attributes of 20, you would get 30 skill points per minute.
Using the basic forumla Time taken = amount/ rate
where amount is your skill points needed (which will be the time multiplier * 250 for level 1, 1414 for level 2 etc etc)
So if you had the above skill mentioned, and you wanted to take it to level 1, it's
250/30 = 8 1/3 minutes. From there it's just maths working out how many seconds, hours and days.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls...
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Koori
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:46:00 -
[45]
Quote:
The app has been updated, I have corrected the bug that was causing some of you issues, and added:
Even if calculations are incorect (i havnt checked) the app is finally working for me.
Thanks Paramecium.
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Sig stolen again :( |
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