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Ghelisis Achasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
   |
Posted - 2014.01.16 02:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ever since I purchased a full license from CONCORD, I have always wanted to ask this, however I have not, call me shy or what not, but I have never connected to this section of Galnet to ask. Here goes...
Has your immediate family ever held a funeral for your baseline? I am asking this, because it seemed like an...interesting question. I have asked on the live feed, and people there thought it interesting enough. That and families of capsuleers might want to pay respects to the person who they grew up with, not some clone, even though you are "you" regardless.
As for me, yes, my family has held a funeral for my baseline. It's been a while, so I do not remember the specifics on how I "died", but my family DID ask the Federation to find my baseline out there in space if their routine patrol passed by there. As I recall, it was recovered by a Federation frigate that broke from its' battlegroup. The officer piloting got temporarily suspended without pay from what I hear, but my family got their wish fulfilled.
Attending my own funeral was...odd to say the least. Gazing upon my baseline was...it's difficult to describe. My family knows that I'm "me", no matter what clone I have, but they still displayed emotion. The kid that got dirty climbing trees on Gallente Prime was no more, I am ascended now, a true capsuleer.
The tombstone reads "Here lies Ghelisis Achasse, still alive, but this incarnation represents the child we grew to love. May no harm come to this child, as he sleeps forever."
Has anyone else gone through similar? I am |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
JIHADASQUAD
1549
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
You might find a more receptive audience for this sort of navel-gazing among other Federation capsuleers.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Morgan Wulver
State War Academy
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 03:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
You're luck you had a family that cared for you. I was tube born... That's what I tell myself anyway. My earliest memories before the Legion took me in was of an orphanage, and frankly I'd rather have been born alone then pondering the thought that I had parents and they abandoned me.
Even after the Legion raised me, I still didn't really have any sort of a family to speak of. My closest friend became an immortal soldier, so there wasn't any protest when I became a capsuleer. We both understood the exchange we made with our lives. My only regret was that we couldn't have done it together.
"Today, unyielding, we have walked the way of the warrior. In our hands have our fates been molded."
DUST Account: Galm Fae-á
|
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
4227
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 04:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Irrelevant.
|
Erys Charantes
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
72
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 06:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
You'll find that a lot of people are going to take this "opportunity" to "prove" just how "Edgy (tm)" they are, rather than answer your query in any way that might indicate it was read, considered, and understood in an adult capacity...
To be fair, it's the first I've heard of a ritual funeral for a capseleers original form. What religion does your family practice? |
Esna Pitoojee
Wolfsbrigade
Lost Obsession
397
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 07:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
As far as my family is concerned, I am still alive. |
Rin Valador
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
67
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's just... well, weird. 
Losing the vessel we call the flesh is not a big deal so long as the essence of the person remains. As I am sure you realize but your family seems to have issues with...
"There will be neither compassion nor mercy;
Nor peace, nor solace
For those who bear witness to these Signs
And still do not believe."
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 25:10 |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
426
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 08:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
The essence does not remain, as the soul goes to God for final judgment.
I do not believe my family held a funeral. I am not sure if they know. |
Ghelisis Achasse
The Scope
Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
They did it out of respect for my original form. As for my religion, I was raised to believe in a god, much like the Amarr really, sans their unwavering lust for slaves. Standard religion really, although being a capsuleer has changed that somewhat. We have to surpress our emotions to do what we do. Otherwise, we would never fire on another ship.
So to answer, yes the funeral was just a ritual. I suppose if you look at it another way, it does seem odd, but that is what they wanted to do. |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
334
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
To quote ms. Dougans, My mother does not approve of my lifestyle, so no.
I believe the capsuleer lifestyle is something one's friends and family should learn to accept during the individual's training. I believe most courses involve psychological and/or spiritual counseling regarding such matters, so if they don't decide to pick it up... well, too bad.
My current Family has no issues understanding that. Also, funerals are so... pompous and tacky.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
___________________________
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation recruitment open. |
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
170
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 09:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
I've heard of this sort of thing before. A few SWA mates and Federation born capsuleers I formed friendships with in my null years had these experiences, with varying degrees of discomfort or even relief. I'm no psychologist, so I don't really know if there is more good than bad to it, but it can't hurt the people we leave behind I guess.
As for me, I am pretty sure the folks back at home have buried something in the ground to save face, but the truth is that they'll have to keep up the lie, as here I am. Still I won't begrudge them their little honour game, I guess they just were not raised right - listening to all the bad press about Nation.
"Pulled from the grime and uncertainty that my life had been, I opened my eyes for the first time and saw in the distance, oh so far away, Utopia. -áMy path may be the broken backs of those who stand against me, but one day, I will stand at the gates and I will be Home." - Sascha Ishenko; Meditations on Servitude |
Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
69
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 10:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
As spacefaring life is so intrinsic to our people, the accent to capsuleer status is seen as an extraordinary accomplishment and a great honour. There's certainly no place for grief or sorrow.
The Caravan threw a big party to celebrate my becoming a capsuleer, the loss of my original body wasn't mentioned at all as far as I remember. Although I don't quite remember everything... I had a lot to drink 
Pilot Achasse, you mentioned your original body's resting place has a tombstone - does this mean it's, like, buried in the ground? On a planet?
Eww, just the thought of that makes me shiver!
Thanks for bringing up the subject anyway, it'll be fascinating to see how other cultures view this.
Thukker Outrider, Frigateer and Booster-Smuggler. |
Innocent Mind
Alexylva Paradox
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 10:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Since you don't remember.
You baseline died on a slab when the techs copied its brain, killed it, and transferred the data to your first capsule grade body.
For all the baselines spying on this (Since they supposedly do): Capsuleer through surgery is a myth.
Hugs, kisses, and lots of edge. o/ |
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 10:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
Innocent Mind wrote:Since you don't remember.
You baseline died on a slab when the techs copied its brain, killed it, and transferred the data to your first capsule grade body.
For all the baselines spying on this (Since they supposedly do): Capsuleer through surgery is a myth.
Hugs, kisses, and lots of edge. o/
That hasn't always been the case, but it was true in my case at least.
"Pulled from the grime and uncertainty that my life had been, I opened my eyes for the first time and saw in the distance, oh so far away, Utopia. -áMy path may be the broken backs of those who stand against me, but one day, I will stand at the gates and I will be Home." - Sascha Ishenko; Meditations on Servitude |
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
1365
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ghelisis Achasse wrote: Ever since I purchased a full license from CONCORD, I have always wanted to ask this, however I have not, call me shy or what not, but I have never connected to this section of Galnet to ask. Here goes...
No need to be shy, I would say you asked an interesting question.
In answer to your question I was euthanized and cloned under the terms and conditions of my corporate indenture contract with Sukuuvestaa due to wounds suffered in orbital drop training during my compulsory military service with CalNav. My remains were cremated as biological waste material, so that was closure of sorts I suppose.
I suppose being indentured had its benefits, many of my comrades did not survive that operation. May the winds bless their memories.
|
Innocent Mind
Alexylva Paradox
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Solarienne wrote:
That hasn't always been the case, but it was true in my case at least.
But yeah, that was before they added cloning to the capsule, some 13 years ago?
I'm hard pressed to imagine anyone doing it anymore. |
Eran Mintor
Esoteric Philosophy
325
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
No. Until recently, capsuleers had the option of retaining their original body. Now, all the academies insist that the capsuleers experience death at least once. Part of the new training or some nonsense.
-Eran |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
426
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Innocent Mind wrote:Since you don't remember.
You baseline died on a slab when the techs copied its brain, killed it, and transferred the data to your first capsule grade body.
For all the baselines spying on this (Since they supposedly do): Capsuleer through surgery is a myth.
Hugs, kisses, and lots of edge. o/
This is true for some, it is not true for all. It is only a very recent development, and not one that everyone goes through. I for one elected surgery. |
Solarienne
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
171
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:No. Until recently, capsuleers had the option of retaining their original body. Now, all the academies insist that the capsuleers experience death at least once. Part of the new training or some nonsense.
-Eran
What he said. I went for the euthanasia route because I'd managed to bang up some of my joints pretty badly over time, a fresh start was pretty appealing both physically and mentally. Not everyone has the same idea, though it seems that as Mintor said, the academies are pushing the euthanasia route these days.
"Pulled from the grime and uncertainty that my life had been, I opened my eyes for the first time and saw in the distance, oh so far away, Utopia. -áMy path may be the broken backs of those who stand against me, but one day, I will stand at the gates and I will be Home." - Sascha Ishenko; Meditations on Servitude |
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
1003
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 11:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nope, for all my flaws, being dead is not one of them.
Morgan Wulver wrote:You're lucky you had a family that cared for you. I was tube born... That's what I tell myself anyway. My earliest memories before the Legion took me in was of an orphanage, and frankly I'd rather have been born alone than pondering the thought that I had parents and they abandoned me.
This has nothing to do with the thread topic and no one cares about your pitiable upbringing.
Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's. |
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
752
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 13:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
I didn't even know this was a "thing". My family didn't hold a funeral because it would make holiday dinners somewhat awkward when they would have introduced me as the Late Reverend Constantin Baracca. He would like some lamb and mint jelly, please.
"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
Silas Vitalia
Nobilita Nera
JIHADASQUAD
1550
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:The essence does not remain, as the soul goes to God for final judgment.
So you're one of those "all capsuleers are soulless shells in spiritual limbo" sorts of Imperials.
I'm wondering when those Theology Council fossils will give a proper ruling on the capsuleer/clone soul issue so you lot can progress right to the proper grieving and/or wrist cutting stage.
Sabik now, Sabik forever |
Jace Sarice
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre ZT-07K
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
25
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 15:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
As others, I was not aware this was a trend. Some disconnect must be occurring, because I fail to see the purpose in it.
" Our wounds are self-inflicted." |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
1452
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
This is a most interesting question. I'm on the side that believes that I'm still quite alive, although my birth body was lost some years ago.
All that was and is "me" remains, even though that which carries that essence is now a custom vat-grown clone.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Lukas Matellis
Gradient
Electus Matari
15
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 16:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
If this is a trend, I don't like it. It does a disservice to people who have real cause to grieve.
I'd never let anyone hold my funeral when I still have a pulse. |
Jace Sarice
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre ZT-07K
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
25
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lukas Matellis wrote:If this is a trend, I don't like it. It does a disservice to people who have real cause to grieve.
I'd never let anyone hold my funeral when I still have a pulse.
Telling others whether or not their grieving has a "real cause" seems to be a fairly exotic level of arrogance.
"Our wounds are self-inflicted." |
Morgan Wulver
State War Academy
Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 21:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Makkal Hanaya wrote:Nope, for all my flaws, being dead is not one of them. Morgan Wulver wrote:You're lucky you had a family that cared for you. I was tube born... That's what I tell myself anyway. My earliest memories before the Legion took me in was of an orphanage, and frankly I'd rather have been born alone than pondering the thought that I had parents and they abandoned me. This has nothing to do with the thread topic and no one cares about your pitiable upbringing.
Right, my mistake. I suppose I got sidetracked before I could make my point. I'm happy for him for having a caring family. The lack there of has never really slowed me down, but I can defiantly see the sentiment a mother might have for her child's corpse.
I should have kept to a simple 'no, I didn't have a funeral.'
"Today, unyielding, we have walked the way of the warrior. In our hands have our fates been molded."
DUST Account: Galm Fae-á
|
Che Biko
Humanitarian Communists
626
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't think I'd hold a funeral. I think I'd like to see my old self one more time though. Maybe I'll even keep it.
Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation
Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
359
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
I did not arrange a funeral for my original body, no, because I have it preserved and kept at an undisclosed location. I know some people will not understand it, but I like to remind myself of my own mortality, to keep my feet on the ground, so to speak. I found nothing quite hits home as hard as looking at the shell of the life one left behind. That it is the body my mother and father gifted me, the body that they raised and that it is the body I discarded in search of a different life. It clouds my mind with a passing regret, but it soon fills me with serenity. A part of me that is always at peace. |
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
756
|
Posted - 2014.01.16 23:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
Morgan Wulver wrote:Makkal Hanaya wrote:Nope, for all my flaws, being dead is not one of them. Morgan Wulver wrote:You're lucky you had a family that cared for you. I was tube born... That's what I tell myself anyway. My earliest memories before the Legion took me in was of an orphanage, and frankly I'd rather have been born alone than pondering the thought that I had parents and they abandoned me. This has nothing to do with the thread topic and no one cares about your pitiable upbringing. Right, my mistake. I suppose I got sidetracked before I could make my point. I'm happy for him for having a caring family. The lack there of has never really slowed me down, but I can defiantly see the sentiment a mother might have for her child's corpse. I should have kept to a simple 'no, I didn't have a funeral.'
This thread is probably an emotional topic for some, and we, as capsuleers, shouldn't sneer at someone's human feelings. If it is any consolation, I've heard this topic before come up, and I would say your best resource, if you'd like a good conversation about Caldari topics, would be Pieter Tuulinen. In fact, I'd recommend you talk to him even if that isn't a topic of conversation. He's simply an excellent person to know.
"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
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