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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
I jsu think it will make the current problem WORSE> because now with trackign scripts the thing will track even BETTER.
I think the range and track bonus should be inverted inrelation to the track comptuer ones. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:I jsu think it will make the current problem WORSE> because now with trackign scripts the thing will track even BETTER.
I think the range and track bonus should be inverted inrelation to the track comptuer ones. But they have to pick range or tracking, not both. Granted, range will be the no-brainer nine times out of ten because sentries already track better than guns at almost any given range, but that's a separate issue.
The problem I see is. Gardes + Dominix + 3 Omni with track scripts will track even more.
They are going to be insanely effective at murdering small stuff.
I think BOTH bonuses of the module should be 15-20% when scripted. 30% will be too much for tracking and will tip the balance TOO MUCH in favor of dominix forces.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1080
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jack bubu wrote:so 10% boost to either range or tracking, i like that
ty raivi you have been a good asset to us once again ))
no.. its " ike Tracking Computers Omnis will now provide stronger bonuses to tracking than to range."
that measn 30% to tracking!!
They will track MORE than now. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1087
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:as long as my ishtar can volley with bouncers from 150k still, okay
with bouncers.. yes but less effectively (more within falloff). With curators you wont snipe that far anymore. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1106
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Posted - 2014.01.16 23:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Weaselior wrote:"every time I use an overpowered flavor of the month ship it gets nerfed" "this must be a conspiracy against me, not that overpowered flavor of the months always get nerfed eventually" Love how you guys are completely losing your **** over a 5% nerf (which I am on record as saying is completely stupid and unfair), but I am complaining about something that is OP. Not too much hypocrisy there. The first clue that there was a problem came in the alliance tournament with the number of Dominix doctrines. Then we have this alliance update from esteemed CSM Member Progodlegend: "Yes, that's right. GĒ£Ishtar.GĒ„ As promised ever since the HAC rebalance changes were first announced, the hour of Ishtar Secunda is now upon us. Disregard Domis; acquire Ishtars. The sentry drone is victory; the sentry drone is life."And then look at what is being fielded in 0.0 today: Goons: Dominix EMP/TEST: Dominix PL/NC/N3: Sentry carriers, Ishtars, Proteus-(which recently had its fit tweaked to drop sentries wlolo) (Heavy Domi use last year during Fountain War) Fountain Conflict/kerfluffle: FA/Li3: Dominix Razor: Ishtars Triumvirate: ishtars Lead Farmers: Ishtars DARKNESS.: Switching to DominixSOLAR FLEET: Switching to DominixLiterally everyone in 0.0 is flying Ishtars, Dominix or sentry carriers
but these changes just make the domi MORE POWERFULL relative to its opposition that was nerfed way more "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1125
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Posted - 2014.01.17 14:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nlex wrote:Aww, and I just found a way to use drones in PVE again that'd make them comparable in performance with guns. Was really proud of that, even if I had to fit drone upgrade modules in 75% of slots on my Domi, and sacrifice both tank and mobility. Oh, and missiles are nerfed by -10% to TP, so my Rattle will not fare much better. Gotta go train me some T2 turrets.
No, they reverted and are not goign to change TP base stats.
But YEs, you SHOULD have t2 turrets. What you doing without them? they are very cheap and fast to train now. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1134
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Posted - 2014.01.18 09:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
With that many mod's dedicated to damage and damage projection, you are running virtually no tank. I don't know how you operate such a ship in null, but I guarantee you that if you dropped such a thin tank into the 2nd room of WC, or Sansha Vengeance, you would be toast.
A.
You mean.. you wil ahve to dedicate the same number of module to range and damage that a normal battleship would for guns? MINUS the 6-8 gun modules themselves ?
PREPOSTEROUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1161
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Posted - 2014.01.23 09:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm Down wrote:What you two guys are seeing a two fold effect.
- 1st is the difference tracking makes. Quality of hits are incredibly different for the two drones, so even though you see the paper numbers looking nearly even, the reality is in the actual math of the tracking formula. Those gardes are probably getting mostly well placed hits, where as the curators are probably getting average, and a few misplaced hits. It significantly changes the actual damage output of the drones.
This is one of the most broken parts of the game and why I often argue that the tracking formula is probably the single largest issue in the game. Because of the way the formula calculates, there is a significant drop off in damage as a ship approaches max transversal compared to the tracking speed of a weapon. The problem is that there is no calibration for sig at range which means longer range lower dps weapons are always at a disadvantage. This is also why Blap dreads are so damn effective even though logic would state that they should be **** vs smaller ships.
In simpler terms, a garde that could hit at 54 optimal with ~4000 m/s tracking and 800 dps will absolute obliterate a curator that can hit up to 90km, but only has -2400 m/s tracking at 50km and 600 dps. The sig of the ships is absolutely meaningless at that point because the ships are so low in the scope of the tracking abilities of these weapons. But what is happening is that the quality hits are skyrocketing for the weapon that has the least issue tracking. If the BS get closer, the disparity becomes more highly pronounced.
With the change to the optimal of gardes, they are also taking a big hit to their ability to track since they aren't hitting at the most ideal ranges.
- The other thing you are seeing is the way rats react to alpha strike.
The first part of that is that assuming you transfer from one rat to the next, the first difference is the 600 extra alpha volley the gardes get at time 0 when the first strike happens. Every single rat gains 600 more damage due to the transfer. If you're shooting 60 BS in a mission as someone stated above, then that translates into a bare minimum of 36,000 damage. But that's not all
I've done some extensive testing with this over the years and found out that rats seem to react to the types of damage they are receiving in terms of their desire to repair. I've used ships with different DPS and different rates of fire in belts to test this setup.
The most obvious time this effect occurred was watching an AC Maelstrom vs a Artillery Maelstrom with the exact same ammo. Logic would tell you the AC mael should always win. But what seems to happen is that the alpha strike artillery platform somehow bugs out the rats to where they don't repair the same way they would with more consistent damage. In fact, there were many instances where rats would not repair between first and 2nd hits using Artilleries, or maybe repair 1 time.
Over the course of their life, rats being shot with AC tended to get about 4-8 x the amount of repairs of those who were being shot with Artilleries. It's so ridiculous that I can actually 2-3 volley certain rats with Artillery for a kill every 33-50 seconds, but with autocannons, It would take 70-90 seconds for the same rats even when webbed and all tracking and falloff effects removed.
So yes, you are seeing a drastic falloff from these changes... and it's primarily due to the absolute **** tracking and NPC mechanics present in game.
you have no clue about how the tracking formula work.. or you are very bad at expressing your toughts in a post.
Your example of arties and AC completely forego range and the falloff effect.. the MAINS factor between them. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1177
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Posted - 2014.01.26 12:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zulu PG wrote:Dear CCP Fozzie,
It has been 10 days now since you announced the change of OTL and there have been several points from the community, which you should really reply to, since it is only two days before this change goes live.
1. By saying "the best primary method to balance the upsides of Sentry Drones is through the drones themselves", why are no chagnes to drones implemented? Since some people got it right and see it as an overall nerf to sentry drones and not just to the module. Basically the change means, that there will be no thermal damage available for sentry users, where there was freedom of damage type before. I think this question is releveant especially because you said the follwong: "We believe that with these changes Sentry Drones will still be very viable and popular weapon systems, and that the results will be a better set of choices for players to make when fitting and flying". A justified question by the community was then, why not have a longe range and a short range version of all drone types, so that there is still freedom of damage type at close range and at sniping range?
2. The community understands that this change intends to nerf the capability of Gardes to shoot with very good tracking and very high dps from very far ranges. But it was pointed out that this is basically only the case with the bonused hulls (Dominix and Ishtar). What is the explanation for crippling the damage potential of the unbonused hulls (Rattlesnake, Stratios, Proteus, Vexor etc.)?
3. Also pointed out by the community is, that this change seems to primary affect sentry usage in fleet fights. If this is true (and it very much seems so), why not directly removing or altering the drone assist?
4. You said "The results of this change for Omni balance are that pilots will now need to choose between having excellent range bonuses and excellent tracking bonuses", but this was a false statement, because in fact now drone users have to choose between "excelent tracking" and "just better" range, why not keep the choice at either 30% tracking or 30% range?
5. Of course we expect more changes in the future, but can you hint us in which direction the sentry drones are expected to evolve? Since it might be a hard choice for new players to invest a lot of SP into a weapon system they might not have wanted to learn and use after all the changes.
By saying: "These changes will be live on SISI very soon for your testing, and we as always thank you in advance for your constructive and useful feedback." I think that you should deliver at least one statement which covers the main points of critic and also positive feedback (which basically did not exist) to these changes, else your whole post of of would have missed the target of receiving feedback if all feedback is ignored.
Please remember: only two days left until a change goes live which seems to be not a very well balanced one. But maybe the community will change its mind after an explanation of yours.
Thank you
Z
because currently Sentries are Overpowered. Even on unbonused range hulls.
They allow an armageddon for a clear example to have more effective damage projection and extra high slot resources thatn ANY turret ship.
Just check on TQ.. how much harder is to fit an abaddon do do damage at same range an armageddon does... with same level of tank and then armageddon can still sport NEuts, RR and stuff like that.
Simply... Sentry droens + omni links are OVERPOWERED. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1178
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 15:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:If you think unbonused sentries are overpowered, you should see what a real DPS boat can do.
Take a rattlesnake, I can outdamage that at any range it is capable of with a TFI, or a CNR. That's today, never mind once omis take the nerf bat to the face.
So the question remains, why are we hobbling unbonused hulls when the actual issue here, is the bonused hulls. Why are T1 battleships better drone boats than the pirate or navy equivalents?
But can you outdamage an armageddon or dominix WHILE fieldign 6 NEUTS at same time?
oo right.. YOU CANNOT!
Normal domi is better than navy domi because nooblets whined that the changes to the dominix were a nerf ( as I said noobs) and then rise kep the navy domi as the useless mix od hibrids and drones to kepe them happy. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1178
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
SuperBeastie wrote:Nerf battleships they should only be able to hit things with 300 sig or greater for full damage. one class of ship under just like titans because being dunked by a battleship in a frigate is unfair if i only want to fly sup frigates there should be no downside.
That is not the point. THe point is the WITHIN ship class balance. Snetry boats were much more pwoerful thatn turret ones. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
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