As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and (..) waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.

I realize you're using hyperbole but do you want it as hardcore as the Diablo example you give?

If you could in fact go from 50m to 50k due to a death would that please you?

Seems to me nobody would undock. Would you?

Compare pvp in EvE to say, pvp in WoW. How's the contrast now? How's the pain by comparison after a "defeat?"

...
The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.
...

But when you die in this game what you lose is time. The time spent grinding for your ship.

Eve has a hardcore mode - everytime you die, biomass that character and start a new one.

There, hardcore mode on.

In other news, apples taste NOTHING like oranges, despite their constant comparisons.

Indeed, hello Kitty Island is just as hardcore as EVE ^^

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

In spite of your attempt to get angry responses... You get out of EvE what you put into it. If you never undock, or run missions intelligently, you are likely to never die. If you go looking for the hardcore you are likely to find it.

If the game was as hardcore as diablo II we all would be the ultimate care bears and just pretty much overtank everything we fly in even our pod
both nul sec and low sec would be totally empty

the game is hardcore in a sense you need plenty ot time, dedication patience and some a do or die mentallity to accomplish your "eve dream"

If the game was as hardcore as diablo II we all would be the ultimate care bears and just pretty much overtank everything we fly in even our pod

Uhm... Exacly how do I overtank my pod?

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

hardcore, nah, as you said there's not even permadeath!
The risk of really losing something substantial is very small for the average EVE player.

Imagine all the cowering vets when their preciousss SP suddely would be at stake. Unimaginable!

Imagine my reaction the other day when, after completing the Angel epic arc, I found myself camped into the final mission station in K-QW. It's a kickout, btw. I managed to get back inside because I'm pro at running away, and I thought, aha! I will jump clone out and foil those campers!

Opened character sheet, my eye happens to fall upon the dread words "CLONE GRADE ALPHA"....


...I'd been running around Curse for over a week in a 900k clone.

Try running Worlds Collide 4 and Gone berserk 4 in an AF without warping out once... its not easy.


May not be hardcore in the sense of losing everything, but when it takes you over a year of play time to get into large t2 ships... that kind of loss would kill any game.

Do you not lose time in the other game as well? Time grinding for your levels or skills or gear?

For the most part, EVE's harshness is the single world with open rules and the people that populate it trying to twist every advantage they can from the unwary.

What you described as hardcore about Diablo is a rule mechanic that can be opted out of by not choosing that mode.

I'll throw this out there for you to think about.

After a couple cocktails on some weekdays I like to scan out people's wormholes and run their sites. I can tell you, without exception that while I'm cleaning out a site then moving my alt in to salvage then finally moving us both back out to empire to sell my loot I am scared. A good scared to be sure, but scared just the same. I get an adrenaline rush that no other game has provided since way back in EverQuest's infancy.

That's my definition of hardcore. I suppose everyone's is different though.

EVE, as an experience, tends to give the player exactly what they bring.

If you approach EVE as a dull, unchallenging PvE grindfest where the goal is to maximise numbers on your character sheet, then that's pretty much the experience you'll have. I've never been sure why people would want to do that, but apparently quite a few do. Never taking any risks or trying anything exciting or making contact with other players and then complaining that EVE is safe and boring and lonely...

Uhm... Exacly how do I overtank my pod?

I spent 2 years grinding in highsec trying to get enough isk and power to be able to make the move, before I finally realized that a pilot doesn't need any of that stuff to make it to the eve 'end game'. You just need friends, which you don't make grinding isk.

I've been playing for two months and no.

Don't be dumb and don't fly a ship worth 95% of your wallet.

It's genuinely saddening how many players make the same mistake. And it's infuriating how many other players will try and shout me down and babble on nonsense about "you just want noobs to throw themselves in front of your guns" when I try and give people as advice what you've learned for yourself.

And those same people are often the ones that complain about griefing!

Depend ..

"Hardcore PvPers" claims that PvE is for pussies.

Yet anyone who concider him/herself hardcore plays the game as "AI machine" therefore no challenge required.

People who plays it differently, plays it as human-beings and got some emotion attached to what they do.

However if you project some theories too far, Emotions are programmable anyway.

What?

::words::

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

But when you die in this game what you lose is time.

Winning in EVE is very personal, you win when you're getting enjoyment out of what you're doing. Whatever that may be.

Having said that....


WoW raiding is more hardcore than this game.

I can not log in for a week here. Log on when I feel like it, do what I want to do, go where I want.

When you're in a top 2 or 3 Guild on a server and it's raid time 3-4 days a week if you're not looged in at raid time the phone starts ringing the texts start rolling in.

Spending 4-5 hours a night wiping to the same boss for 2 weeks straight until you finally get it down.

241 wipes on Yogg-Saron before it finally went down because 1/25 people would make just 1 mistake, including me. (I haven't played since then)

It's a funny thing death in games. I mean in PvP in some games you die so much you just shrug your shoulders and get on with it. I remember playing another MMO called darkfall, I would just run around naked everywhere because I would be ganked and I didn't want to lose anything valuable. If I was brave I would put some trousers on. I stopped playing because it became tedious dying so many times.

In contrast, playing another MMO in PVE mode where you only seem to die in raids is dull also. I think there has to be a balance where you die enough for the game to be scary but not enough for it to become meaningless. Besides, I don't think the word "hardcore" belongs to a computer game. I mean seriously... soldiering in Afghanistan is hardcore, saving people from a burning building is hardcore. Playing a computer game is just passing the time doing something you enjoy.

This game would be far more hardcore if people couldn't use alts and second accounts.

But no, it's not real hardcore as is. Disposable alts to scout. Industry alts to circumvent standings hits. The relative ease of fixing standings. NPC corps to hide in. Basically there are too many ways of avoiding consequence. The consequence of losing your pod is sufficient, I think. The problem is you can hide behind an alt and so avoid a bad reputation or the consequences of low standings.

You won't get rid of alts.




I was thinking of this problem the other day.

An answer would be to have the rep linked to all your characters (and accounts), so one takes a negative standing hit they all do. Of course this would kill RP for a lot of people. But it would mean that the rep would be associated to the player and not the characters, it would stop the creation of throw away characters though.

I only see CCP saying this game is hardcore these days, well, when they can tear themselves away from making concessions to carebears they might fire off an editorial or two about how hardcore Eve is.

Butthurt much? "I want it to be easy to kill that defenseless ship that I'm not supposed to kill". CCP hasn't taken anything away from you. Care-bears can still be killed. You just want to do it for free. Go do some real PvP.

You want to see hardcore games, go back 20-30 years. One life, instant death when grazed by anything, no saves or checkpoints, and deliberately impossible to complete because they never made an ending.

Modern gamers want to feel hardcore, but only if everything is fair. I often think about how unfair war is, and how war games usually have to avoid that to provide a fun experience.

You want to see hardcore games, go back 20-30 years. One life, instant death when grazed by anything, no saves or checkpoints, and deliberately impossible to complete because they never made an ending.

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

If I had 10,000 ISK for every fool that played the "real PvP" card, I'd be on more isk than a risk free incursion runner.

Pong is so hardcore.

If I had 5,000 isk for every PVPer that thinks HTFU means easy-for-me-hard-for-you I'd have more isk than you have easy kills.

Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?

Why should people who want to kill people harden up?

I want to say replying to a goof that thinks

But that's probably not it.

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

The simple truth is that people confuse "freedom" for "hardcore" because of the nature of this particular medium. EVE as an MMO is a hell of a lot less limiting than the rest of the MMOs out there, and a hell of a lot less protective and restrictive of its players. A lot of what would be considered bannable griefing in World of Warcraft or Champions Online is perfectly legit in EVE. By the same token, EVE coddles its new players a lot less than other MMOs, dumping them in the deep end so to speak. This of course lowers its retention rate of new subscribers but also acts as a handy selection process for weeding out players who really couldn't survive. Yes, EVE is a harsh and unforgiving game, but that's because of the freedom. It has nothing to do with the game being, ahem, "hardcore".

Anyone complaining that the game has become "less hardcore" or needs to be made "more hardcore" is deluding themselves. The only major change to the hardcore-ness of the game that I can immediately think of in the entire time I've played EVE (and I first signed up in late 2005) is Warp To Zero, a change whose impact, while arguably making the game a little less hardcore, was entirely positive. WTZ made travelling long distances a mild irritation rather than an absolutely godawful chore, made gatecamps take actual effort (for a while at least) and made the game more accessible to new players.

The game does not need to be made "more hardcore", and people who worry that a given change will make the game "less hardcore" are entirely missing the point. A good change is one that increases player freedom, and a bad one is one that reduces it.

And why does the game need more hardcore-ness?

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

Do you know what the greatest form of flattery is?

Imagine my reaction the other day when, after completing the Angel epic arc, I found myself camped into the final mission station in K-QW. It's a kickout, btw. I managed to get back inside because I'm pro at running away, and I thought, aha! I will jump clone out and foil those campers!

Opened character sheet, my eye happens to fall upon the dread words "CLONE GRADE ALPHA"....


...I'd been running around Curse for over a week in a 900k clone.

Its promoted as the coldest of the cold where anything goes but..not really

The point about this game is that you choice your level. I know hundreds of people in this game and most of them are hardly ever ganked or die for any reason. they mission, they mine, they build. When they die they normally die in wars or roams.

The only people i know who die on a regular basis are those in Nullsec running small gangs or fighting for space.


You can scam people in this game but all MMOs have plenty of scams and the moderators just accept it as part of the game.


As an example Diablo Hardcore is far tougher than EVE

You die once and once only and then you lose the character and all equipment they have. A Zod rune has a 50% chance of dropping for every 100,000 hours played.

Imagine dying in this game and losing your ship, everything in your hangars and waking up with 50k skillpoints instead of 50 million.

Its not as hardcore as people say it is.


Your angry thoughts please

^^This man just won EVE. And he did it hard-core!

Nope, this game is the furthest from hardcore that any game could be. Currently in it's present state it is pretty much on the same level as a toddlers thought process. Considering it caters to weak bullies this is basically what it's saying "I can tag you but you can't tag me" but only allowing this perspective from people who want to abuse other people, not for people who don't want to abuse others and just exist.

This game is broken and the fact that bullies get hand held and can go and hide like pussies after abusing someone makes this game pretty pathetic, not hardcore at all. If there was proper retaliation methods against the pussies, then it would be a small bit better but not much.

It caters to dweeb bullies instead of to honorable legit people. This game could be 10,000 times better than it is but it is being held back by it's inept community and CCP's lack of interest for anything other than money.

Imagine, your ship gets hacked and you have no controls, it's flying wonky and everythings going off and on the lights are flashing and the warning sound is blaring, oh noes suddenly your computer notifies you that there is a hull breach now someone is on your ship.

Nope, instead some handheld "pirate" ganks you with some stupid ship and you have no retaliation.

This game is the furthest from a hardcore space game that it could be.

There is No ship hacking
There is No ship boarding
There is No dark dingy space bars to get stabbed in
There is No Manual controls or cockpit view of the ships
There is No fun.
There's more Pay to win than Play to win.
There are too many pussies flying around thinking they are bad ass just because they f people over. The people that DO NOT want to f people over are pretty much screwed when playing EVE.
Etc etc etc So many things I could list so many things that need fixed (bounty system, mining, tractor beam, null/sec/high, etc)

:P