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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
BlackHole Bob
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Posted - 2006.03.23 05:28:00 -
[1]
To whom it may concern:
My apologies first to eve-radio for thinking I pointed some kind of finger at them. Which in fact, I did not, I simply said ISK sales are wrong and those running ads for them are wrong to.
Now I will retort only once as this really has gotten out of hand. All from a simple post I made in a thread that had nothing to do with eve-radio. Just so happens they do run ads for ISK sales via what ever means. This is not my issue but your making it ours now. When you turn this into some community bloodbath thing.
First.
We never asked eve radio for one ounce of assistance. There DJ's contacted us. I also told them they could attend for no cost what so ever. I thought it would be great to have all involved. Acix and Urban worked out the details.
During discussion bewtween Urban Mongral and Acix Reborn, Urban said eve-radio could host up to 1000 connections and wished to (they wanted the traffic). We were total prepared to doit ourselves, and have the reosurces, so we really did not need the help, but we thought it would be good overall for the community to do a co-op event. Give eve-radio the traffic and let it be a good thing. EvE-nn.com really wanted the traffic so they accepted the podcast traffic as they are good at that.
We also discussed with eve-radio dj's that they broadcast live and eve-nn.com gets the downloads and podcast to split traffic rights. We thought this was fair as traffic for these sites is a critical issue.
Well eve-radio just took the podcast and ripped them to mp3 and put them up and made like they did all the work and dissed all over eve-nn.com and there interest here. Now there dissing on us by twisting my post to point at them. (if they did not have ISK ads we wouldnt be posting about this would we?)
Then..to top it off they make this BIG post about how they did us some favor here...and we crapped on them. When in fact we talked very highly of eve radio always. We also were very appeciative to eve-radio for there efforts through out all this.
Today we watched eve-radio divide the communtiy...all for what??...cause I made a post in a thread, non related to this, that ISK sellers are greedy? EvE-Radio has ads...we get reamed by eve-radio...life goes on....
Next time you might wish to open up a dialogue and contact me before you go on a propaganda binge and getting the whole community in a fit.....
We wont be asking for your assistance next year nor do we condone ISK sales or ads period or how hateful you and staff of eve-radio became over a post that was not directed at you, but you seem to think it is.....you almost pulled the plug on the second part dev chat after the break anyway, over some DJ wanting to get up on the large listener base, at that time, that were listening to the dev chat. I was interrupted during the event to be told so also. I sent a verbal WTF? to DJ Xod when he told me this...
You then turned around and posted the podcast to your site when there was and agreement, in place, not to verbally. Now you attack our efforts like we did something wrong here. We wish no association with eve-radio from here forward based on your actions alone and how you handle eve-radio. At least we agree on something :)
Please feel free to make this your enter piece of eve-radio and stir it up more over "your" issues. These are not our issues. We do not NEED eve-radio nor its ISK sales and ads...nor will we accept any request next year from any staff at eve-radio to be part of our event. You insured that today.
Your ads got you in this predicament...not evegathering...we just threw and event is all...and posted that we dont condone isk sales or ads of any kind...in another thread and never once mentioned eve-radio either...nor intended to...
puts on flame suit ...
Please feel free to contact me ANYTIME if you wish to discuss this in a civilized manner.
I wont be answering this thread...I just wanted the facts to be clear here
Blackhole Bob
www.evegathering.com
Las Vegas EvE Gathering 2006
March 15th and 16th |
Emmerich Steiner
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Posted - 2006.03.23 05:47:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: BlackHole Bob
eve-radio nor its ISK sales and ads
Way to grind it in there... First you say that your comment had nothing to do with them, then you accuse them of doing exactly that.
Nice. :D
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Alexis DeTocqueville
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Posted - 2006.03.23 05:50:00 -
[3]
Way to floss a dead horse.
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.23 05:50:00 -
[4]
Guy's simply quit this eve-nn and eve-radio are both members of the eve community held in high esteem, yet both your actions over the past few days have been childish.
Things have been said that shouldn't have been and must be forgetten for the sake of harmony. The original argument about isk seller ad's has escalated beyond the point it ever should. It in all honestly it is not for the community to even think about as it is CCP's responsibility alone to control how it's game is advertised and exploited. No one has the right to police EVE other than CCP.
Now guys make up please :)
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Ductoris
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Posted - 2006.03.23 05:55:00 -
[5]
This can either be a legitimate discussion on the events involved or it can turn into a flame war.
Warnings will be issued to those who choose the later.
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jamesw
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Posted - 2006.03.23 06:05:00 -
[6]
I really just want to get in early and say that despite the apparent bickering, I really appreciated the efforts of all who assisted the Eve Radio/NN podcast.
It was really informative, interesting and well produced, and great for people like me who live on the other side of the world to listen in to the full show.
Thanks!
btw... People were looking at me funny on the train yesterday when i was ****ing myself laughing at Urban's reaction to the amount of Beer Oveur was consuming...
--
Latest Vid: Bobbing for Xelas |
ACIX REBORN
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Posted - 2006.03.23 06:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: ACIX REBORN on 23/03/2006 06:13:28
Edited by: ACIX REBORN on 23/03/2006 06:13:11
Originally by: ToxicFire
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/03/2006 06:07:05
Guy's simply quit this eve-nn and eve-radio are both members of the eve community held in high esteem, yet both your actions over the past few days have left a sour taste in the mouth.
Things have been said that shouldn't have been and must be forgetten for the sake of harmony. The original argument about isk seller ad's has escalated beyond the point it ever should. It in all honestly it is not for the community to even think about as it is CCP's responsibility alone to control how it's game is advertised and exploited. No one has the right to police EVE other than CCP.
Now guys make up please :)
Actually I don't see how my actions did anything but try and be constructive. I gave them a few ideas for some revenue and stood up for my friend BlackHole Bob. His comments in that thread had nothing to do with eve-radio at all.
I was hoping that none of this would be aired but it has now.
I think todays moral of the story is not to freak out and assume something without talking to the person first. MrBlades jumped the gun and now we have all this.
www.EVE-NN.com - [email protected]
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.23 06:48:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ACIX REBORN
Edited by: ACIX REBORN on 23/03/2006 06:13:28
Edited by: ACIX REBORN on 23/03/2006 06:13:11
Originally by: ToxicFire
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/03/2006 06:07:05
Guy's simply quit this eve-nn and eve-radio are both members of the eve community held in high esteem, yet both your actions over the past few days have left a sour taste in the mouth.
Things have been said that shouldn't have been and must be forgetten for the sake of harmony. The original argument about isk seller ad's has escalated beyond the point it ever should. It in all honestly it is not for the community to even think about as it is CCP's responsibility alone to control how it's game is advertised and exploited. No one has the right to police EVE other than CCP.
Now guys make up please :)
Actually I don't see how my actions did anything but try and be constructive. I gave them a few ideas for some revenue and stood up for my friend BlackHole Bob. His comments in that thread had nothing to do with eve-radio at all.
I was hoping that none of this would be aired but it has now.
I think todays moral of the story is not to freak out and assume something without talking to the person first. MrBlades jumped the gun and now we have all this.
Please do not continue to point fingers. Comments may have been made with good intentions but clearly unaware of the impact they would have. So the best thing to do now is to walk away. Rember it is the community that support Eve-NN as well as Eve-Radio and the community has been offended and can easily walk away.
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ACIX REBORN
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Posted - 2006.03.23 07:06:00 -
[9]
Edited by: ACIX REBORN on 23/03/2006 07:07:21
Quote:
Please do not continue to point fingers. Comments may have been made with good intentions but clearly unaware of the impact they would have. So the best thing to do now is to walk away. Rember it is the community that support Eve-NN as well as Eve-Radio and the community has been offended and can easily walk away.
Your right on the money. When i saw the MrBlades original post I thought oh crap there is nothing good that could ever come out of this.
As far as I am concerned I really hope that the EVE community doesn't take anything I said out of context. I tried really hard to be nice and constructive without flaming.
These words rule the day I guess "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".
And hey Urban and Xod of eve-radio you guys are always great guys in my book
www.EVE-NN.com - [email protected]
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.23 07:11:00 -
[10]
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/03/2006 07:11:44
 Everyones human and we all make mistakes its how we move on from them that defines us.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.03.23 09:10:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/03/2006 07:11:44
Everyones human and we all make mistakes its how we move on from them that defines us.
It's what you do that defines you. 
Didn't you see Batman Begins? 
Jokes aside, I actually believe that to be true. 
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.03.23 09:21:00 -
[12]
You know, it is like this:
If CCP have a problem with community sites using google ads, they will do something.
No-one makes you click on the ads, or even visit the sites. No-one is pointing a shotgun at your head and making you buy ISK or break the EULA.
If people do use the ads and buy ISK, that is their choice, and they will undoubtedly suffer the consequences. However, if the ads weren't there they would still probably find a way to buy ISK.
The whole thing between BlackHole Bob and Eve Radio is ultimately meaningless.
It isn't hard to decide who to believe based on former reputation, is it?
Throwing a party for the judges doesn't make you innocent.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Spokesperson
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:14:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ductoris
Warnings will be issued to those who choose the later.
You mean the latter?
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Psymon R
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:36:00 -
[14]
Originally by: ACIX REBORN
His comments in that thread had nothing to do with eve-radio at all.
Unfortunately, from where I'm standing (and I'm sure for others too), whether intentional or not, BlackHole Bob's comments do appear to criticise eve-radio. The OP of the initial thread had singled out eve-radio, and so going in and saying that all sites with google ads are wrong can only associate the comments as being against eve-radio, at least in part.
For the record, I am a regular listener to eve-radio and I visit their forums regularly as well. Yes their site does have the adverts, however I never notice them, my mind simply filters them out. I do believe they contribute in a good way to the eve community (and I'm sure eve-nn and evegathering do too).
At the end of the day...
Originally by: ToxicFire
Things have been said that shouldn't have been and must be forgetten for the sake of harmony. The original argument about isk seller ad's has escalated beyond the point it ever should. It in all honestly it is not for the community to even think about as it is CCP's responsibility alone to control how it's game is advertised and exploited. No one has the right to police EVE other than CCP.
Now guys make up please :)
QFT!
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:38:00 -
[15]
its basically a "grief" that started at the event between eve-radio, evegathering and eve-nn. Where the arena of choice became google ads.
Fight should be kept between them and not on the forums, wont serve any purpuse really except aggroing the community.
Hope you flame or mate again over personal convos. I reccomend voice or if you can personal contact to insure a smooth "talk" between eachother then writing, as it could be so missunderstood. GL!
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Archa
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:40:00 -
[16]
It is a shame events have turned out the way they did.
It certainly is blown out of proportion.
And eventough blackhole bob condoned isk ads in general he did not point the finger at eve-radio. It was eve-radio itself that interperted it that way.
Personally I find Mr.Blades response very overreacted and quite personal towards Blackhole Bob.
Who asked who to help with what, i don't know.
it doesn't matter.
Shame it has come to this,
altough a very good read.
thanks to the both for you hard work on all the events you hosted and reported.
i'll still try to attend both of yours. No matter who was wrong.
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sir Juri
its basically a "grief" that started at the event between eve-radio, evegathering and eve-nn. Where the arena of choice became google ads.
Fight should be kept between them and not on the forums, wont serve any purpuse really except aggroing the community.
Hope you flame or mate again over personal convos. I reccomend voice or if you can personal contact to insure a smooth "talk" between eachother then writing, as it could be so missunderstood. GL!
prolly it was an underlying "beef" that came to surface. Not the actual ads or the way blades "took it".
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:47:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Avon
Throwing a party for the judges doesn't make you innocent.
<irony>Accusations 4tw!</irony>
Anyway, it's been proven that people actually ignore the 468x60 pixel banners, by scientists and the like.
Personally I stopped using google ads after I spammed their ads accross all my pages and only made $14 (which would have cost me ú7 to cash a foreign cheque). Amazon stuff (particularly web services where you can insert Amazon content in a way you want) are much better.
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Originally by: Avon
Throwing a party for the judges doesn't make you innocent.
<irony>Accusations 4tw!</irony>
It was more an observation, but I will retract if it makes you more comfortable.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Wrangler
Originally by: ToxicFire
Edited by: ToxicFire on 23/03/2006 07:11:44
Everyones human and we all make mistakes its how we move on from them that defines us.
It's what you do that defines you.
Didn't you see Batman Begins?
Jokes aside, I actually believe that to be true.
which bit? that batman begins or what he said?
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls...
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:56:00 -
[21]
great movie
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2006.03.23 10:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: FireFoxx80
Originally by: Avon
Throwing a party for the judges doesn't make you innocent.
<irony>Accusations 4tw!</irony>
It was more an observation, but I will retract if it makes you more comfortable.
Nah, keep it. Maybe it's just my interpretation. I stated my view above, most people ignore the banners, so why worry about it?
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:08:00 -
[23]
I have to admit that after reading all the posts and everything that was said as well as done, I have to side here with Blackhole Bob.
The truth here is that ISK sales are bad for the game and the games community. ISK sales bring in an ugly element to the game and force us to deal with things like Macro Miners and ISK farmers that have no purpose in the game world short of making "real" money. For Eve radio to have these kinds of ads on their website, whether intended or not, means they support ISK farming and the selling of ISK. Its quite hypicritical of Eve Radio to claim that they don't support ISK sales, while having ISK for sale on their website.
I realize that their excuse is that they need money to run the radio show being a non-profit organization, but quite frankly as far as I'm concerned if your going to be part of a community like Eve and run a radio show for the community you need to maintain an ethical organization that supports the health of the game. Having ISK ads on the main website would be like like having ISK ads in the EON magazine CCP puts out. It just don't make sense and should be stopped immediatly.
I love Eve Radio and I continue to listen to them because I love the music and the DJ's, but as far as I'm concerned any financial support they hope to get from me now or in the future is now on hold until I see those ads disapear. They really have no right to ask for donations while they are doing something bad for the game like advertising ISK sales and supporting the farming of ISK and Macro Mining.
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I have to admit that after reading all the posts and everything that was said as well as done, I have to side here with Blackhole Bob.
The truth here is that ISK sales are bad for the game and the games community. ISK sales bring in an ugly element to the game and force us to deal with things like Macro Miners and ISK farmers that have no purpose in the game world short of making "real" money. For Eve radio to have these kinds of ads on their website, whether intended or not, means they support ISK farming and the selling of ISK. Its quite hypicritical of Eve Radio to claim that they don't support ISK sales, while having ISK for sale on their website.
I realize that their excuse is that they need money to run the radio show being a non-profit organization, but quite frankly as far as I'm concerned if your going to be part of a community like Eve and run a radio show for the community you need to maintain an ethical organization that supports the health of the game. Having ISK ads on the main website would be like like having ISK ads in the EON magazine CCP puts out. It just don't make sense and should be stopped immediatly.
I love Eve Radio and I continue to listen to them because I love the music and the DJ's, but as far as I'm concerned any financial support they hope to get from me now or in the future is now on hold until I see those ads disapear. They really have no right to ask for donations while they are doing something bad for the game like advertising ISK sales and supporting the farming of ISK and Macro Mining.
nice to see how far principles go these days!, and yes consider that a flame if you want, I think its a fair one for me to make.
Im a noob, bear with me :P |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:14:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Gariuys on 23/03/2006 11:15:51
MrBlades > Black something.
Gotta love backwards logic. They have isk selling ads to pay for server costs. So I'll give them less money until they remove them.... beautiful, brings a tear to my eye.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gottaa
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:23:00 -
[26]
The other option for people not wanting such adds is use firefox, get the "AdBlock" extension and hey presto with a right click you can block the image, infact with a right click and changing the last bit to * you'll block all google ads, like so:
http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/*
Hey presto you'll never see another google ad, it is an amazing way to enjoy the web once more without tacky, useless advertising which is about as effective as junk mail landing on my doorstep.
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DJTempest3K
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:24:00 -
[27]
If anyone has any queries or comments with regard to EVE-Radio policy, they are asked to direct them to a member of the management team. I am more than happy to try and answer any questions people may have, contact details are available from the EVE-Radio Website.
We are also open to suggestions regarding methods of raising revenue, but please do not be offended if we don't always jump up & say 'yes, that's a great idea OMGWTFBBQ!'
I for one, and I believe that I speak for everyone at EVE-Radio, do not wish to participate in a flame war or upset anyone. All we wish to do is supply a service for the community to enjoy. The choice to use our service or not is yours!
DJ Tempest
EVE-Radio - visit us @ www.eve-radio.com
Music you can mine, mission & pod too :) |
Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:31:00 -
[28]
Originally by: DJTempest3K
If anyone has any queries or comments with regard to EVE-Radio policy, they are asked to direct them to a member of the management team. I am more than happy to try and answer any questions people may have, contact details are available from the EVE-Radio Website.
We are also open to suggestions regarding methods of raising revenue, but please do not be offended if we don't always jump up & say 'yes, that's a great idea OMGWTFBBQ!'
I for one, and I believe that I speak for everyone at EVE-Radio, do not wish to participate in a flame war or upset anyone. All we wish to do is supply a service for the community to enjoy. The choice to use our service or not is yours!
Everyone appriciates what Eve Radio does and all the DJ's that help make the radio work. The question is does it have to be a double edged sword. On the one hand Eve Radio is doing something great for the community but in order to make the radio station work you support one of the uglier elements of gaming. By supporting ISK sales your litterly supporting people that are hurting the game.
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Jin Entres
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:33:00 -
[29]
I would like to ask one question I consider relevant - do Google Ads pay by clicks or not?
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:38:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Gariuys
Edited by: Gariuys on 23/03/2006 11:15:51
MrBlades > Black something.
Gotta love backwards logic. They have isk selling ads to pay for server costs. So I'll give them less money until they remove them.... beautiful, brings a tear to my eye.
My point here is that ISK ads aren't the only way to advertise. Why choose something so negative when there is plenty of ways to make money for the radio show without supporting something so negative.
For example on air advertisment. There are currently at least 3 ads that I know of with in game corps advertising recruitment, yet this is a free service (short of the in game ISK cost, which should have no real monitary value). Strangly enough you could buy the ISK you need for the on air adverstiment on their website using real money so that you could buy the on air advertisment using the ISK (fake money) you bought on the add..
I know everyone here wants to support Eve Radio at all cost since they are a non-profit organization but sometimes you have to realize that bad managment is bad managment regardless of whether its a non-profit or profit organization.
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Gottaa
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:41:00 -
[31]
I was just wondering that Jin. I'm also curious if by AdBlocking the google ad's I'm actually in effect taking money away from them, which while I don't support ISK sales in any way and would never buy any I don't want EVE-Radio to go under cos of loss of funding.
It is indeed a double edged sort but funding is the way the world goes.
P.S The DJ's impression of Will Smith just now made me snort tea out throught my nose :/
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Nee'kita Frist
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: BlackHole Bob
Please feel free to contact me ANYTIME if you wish to discuss this in a civilized manner.
I wont be answering this thread...I just wanted the facts to be clear here
Yay. Lets get it OFF the forums and INTO therapy sessions m'kay? - Follow BB's example.
Anyway I don't think it split the Eve Community. Just the forum community I'm sure theres more than half the players in the game right now (IE: 50,000 subbers) who don't even have a clue whats going on with Eve Radio and Eve Gathering. In fact I'm still going about Eve and occasionally saying in local "Damn Eve radio is funny tonight" and I'll get a "WTF is eve radio?" as a reply.
Anyway by the sounds of things theres a lot of people having big knee jerk reactions and they really should catch themselves on (not point the finger at anybody but you REALLY should take sometime out, look at yourself and your organisation and what you stand for.
If you stand for yourself then thats fine keep up the honour and pride thing.
If you stand for community and Eve then own up apologise and STFU and get on with looking after the community m'kay?
Transmission out.
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I'm just bitter |
DJTempest3K
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:56:00 -
[33]
Originally by: DJTempest3K
If anyone has any queries or comments with regard to EVE-Radio policy, they are asked to direct them to a member of the management team. I am more than happy to try and answer any questions people may have, contact details are available from the EVE-Radio Website.
Feel free also to contact me directly, either on IRC or by email to discuss this or any other matter concerning EVE-Radio.
Lets this this out of the mainstream & discuss more important things, like How to be a carebear /pirate /nub in 10 easy lessons
DJ Tempest
EVE-Radio - visit us @ www.eve-radio.com
Music you can mine, mission & pod too :) |
mogwai
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Posted - 2006.03.23 11:59:00 -
[34]
From a personal point of view i hate isk sellers and the adverts they try to place on forums around the world, but i also sympathize with eve-radio as the google ads are almost impossible to monitor and are a good source of income.
macro-miners/isk farmers ruined the game for me and have just dropped both my account subs but i am still a huge fan of eve-radio and the community spirit it brings. Please dont slate the guys for raising cash via these google ads, how were they supposed to know that the 'scumbag isk-sellers' would use it?
just my 2p
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It isnt a bug, it's a new feature
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:06:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
Originally by: Gariuys
Edited by: Gariuys on 23/03/2006 11:15:51
MrBlades > Black something.
Gotta love backwards logic. They have isk selling ads to pay for server costs. So I'll give them less money until they remove them.... beautiful, brings a tear to my eye.
My point here is that ISK ads aren't the only way to advertise. Why choose something so negative when there is plenty of ways to make money for the radio show without supporting something so negative.
For example on air advertisment. There are currently at least 3 ads that I know of with in game corps advertising recruitment, yet this is a free service (short of the in game ISK cost, which should have no real monitary value). Strangly enough you could buy the ISK you need for the on air adverstiment on their website using real money so that you could buy the on air advertisment using the ISK (fake money) you bought on the add..
I know everyone here wants to support Eve Radio at all cost since they are a non-profit organization but sometimes you have to realize that bad managment is bad managment regardless of whether its a non-profit or profit organization.
Kryss please stop trying to stir, this is not the thread about isk sales this is the thread about mistakes that were made and for reference if you had actually bothered to read the correspondance, eve-radio has stated that they do attempt to filter isk add's and that they in no way support isk selling the isk selling ad's are selected based on content of the website. This is also a wider issue of funding all community sites as not all of the sites that support eve out there cannot ask for donations for site upkeep I know my site doesn't warrent the level of community use to make it dontation viable but ad's do. And again if CCP thought that these add's were harming the community in any major way they would have asked certain major eve sites to remove them. The isk generated from ingame corp advertising is used to subserdise ingame competitions which are an important part of eve radio's make up.
Please have your facts straight before you post again.
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Rellik B00n
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:08:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Rellik B00n on 23/03/2006 12:11:09
All great sites. This argument should not have been conducted in the public domain in the first place.
Delusions of 'offending the eve community' are perhaps a little ott. I suspect that most people, like me, could care less.
The argument of 'we only do it to finance teh site' is a little thin as everything the average eve player needs is right here at eve-online.com. However this is how you have chosen to finance your private site so I recommend anyone that does visit clicks on them as many times as possible without actually buying anything as google adds work on a price per click basis.
.
Tractor Drones!
I used to have a sig here but apparently the server cannot handle sigs bigger than a small pea |
Diaego
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:09:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Diaego on 23/03/2006 12:14:06
Firstly, IÆd like to apologise for the upset this issue has caused some people in the community û itÆs obviously not what we wanted to do. I'd just like to reiterate that we definitely do not support ISK sales in anyway. We have no control over the ads that Google choose to display.
The Google ads are triggerd because the web-site is about EVE, and as such it displays relevant ads (in this case, ISK sale ads). We can (and do) block these on a URL by URL basis (and we have well over 100 in our Google block list), but more just keep springing up.
Our only option would be to pull the Google ads entirely, but then the cost to keep EVE-Radio would be too great and force us to close down. Really, we have been a victim of our own success. More listeners = more bandwidth = higher costs.
We are working as quickly as possible to create a new service that should generate the revenue we need to keep things going for free without the need for donations or advertising. But until then we need to plug the hole with web-site advertising.
Again, I am very open to suggestions on other ways to generate revenue, please feel free to drop me an e-mail (diaego at eve-radio.com) if you have any ideas.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
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Oosel
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:15:00 -
[38]
im glad you dont have any of these politics on eve underground radio..........
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Nee'kita Frist
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:18:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Diaego
The Google ads are triggerd because the web-site is about EVE, and as such it displays relevant ads (in this case, ISK sale ads). We can (and do) block these on a URL by URL basis (and we have well over 100 in our Google block list), but more just keep springing up.
Our only option would be to pull the Google ads entirely, but then the cost to keep EVE-Radio would be too great and force us to close down. Really, we have been a victim of our own success. More listeners = more bandwidth = higher costs.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
I have already offered my services to MrBlades to help in the proceedure of blocking google ads - haven't recieved any word back from him.
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I'm just bitter |
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Nee'kita Frist
Originally by: Diaego
The Google ads are triggerd because the web-site is about EVE, and as such it displays relevant ads (in this case, ISK sale ads). We can (and do) block these on a URL by URL basis (and we have well over 100 in our Google block list), but more just keep springing up.
Our only option would be to pull the Google ads entirely, but then the cost to keep EVE-Radio would be too great and force us to close down. Really, we have been a victim of our own success. More listeners = more bandwidth = higher costs.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
I have already offered my services to MrBlades to help in the proceedure of blocking google ads - haven't recieved any word back from him.
Offer them to Diaego then.
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:28:00 -
[41]
Evegathering lists Eve Radio as a sponsor.
I guess it is just a bad choice of words, right?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:30:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Avon
Evegathering lists Eve Radio as a sponsor.
I guess it is just a bad choice of words, right?
If I ran a site/gathering thingie, I'd never accept sponsorship from someone that runs isk selling ads on their site.
(Too good to pass up on)
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
DJTempest3K
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:32:00 -
[43]
Wow, I can see this is going to carry on being constructive  . Any chance of a lock please?
DJ Tempest
EVE-Radio - visit us @ www.eve-radio.com
Music you can mine, mission & pod too :) |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:37:00 -
[44]
Originally by: DJTempest3K
Wow, I can see this is going to carry on being constructive . Any chance of a lock please?
Apologies, was a joke, no harm ment really. Just couldn't resist, the black side and all that mumbo.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Slaveabuser
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Posted - 2006.03.23 12:47:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Slaveabuser on 23/03/2006 12:53:19
Edited by: Slaveabuser on 23/03/2006 12:53:00
Originally by: Gariuys
Originally by: Avon
Evegathering lists Eve Radio as a sponsor.
I guess it is just a bad choice of words, right?
If I ran a site/gathering thingie, I'd never accept sponsorship from someone that runs isk selling ads on their site.
(Too good to pass up on)
o/\o
Anyone saying that its impossible to remove isk ads on a site is nothing but a blatant liar.
I fail to see why EVE radio wont denounce the sale of isk by removing the banners. Im sure they can find other 'sponsors'.
Killing the Minmatars since 22480 AD |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:01:00 -
[46]
For the people that didn't get the joke, it was aimed at Black something. Love Blades, and eve-radio as a whole.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Moadib Johnson
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:06:00 -
[47]
LOL what a fuss about nothing people.
Anyone who thinks any of this is important or matters needs to seriously think about switching their computer off for a good 6 months.
Sad, Sad, Sad.
Its just fan-sites for a very niche game. In the grand scheme of things, more important things happen in my life almost every single minute. For example, my choice of sandwich for lunch outweighs the importance of this topic by several times over.
I mean Cajun chicken is an old favourite, but I had it yesterday - Whereas there is a very tasty looking Poached Salmon and rocket in Organic wholemeal looking at me. That is a serious issue. It has serious consequences for how I feel for the rest of the day. If EVE-radio and Eve-gathering both died tomorrow, it wouldnt make the slightest bit of difference to my life.
So anyone who thinks this issue of warring nerds and their fansites is important needs to relocate to within targetting range of a good sandwich shop.
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Moadib Johnson
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:06:00 -
[48]
LOL what a fuss about nothing people.
Anyone who thinks any of this is important or matters needs to seriously think about switching their computer off for a good 6 months.
Sad, Sad, Sad.
Its just fan-sites for a very niche game. In the grand scheme of things, more important things happen in my life almost every single minute. For example, my choice of sandwich for lunch outweighs the importance of this topic by several times over.
I mean Cajun chicken is an old favourite, but I had it yesterday - Whereas there is a very tasty looking Poached Salmon and rocket in Organic wholemeal looking at me. That is a serious issue. It has serious consequences for how I feel for the rest of the day. If EVE-radio and Eve-gathering both died tomorrow, it wouldnt make the slightest bit of difference to my life.
So anyone who thinks this issue of warring nerds and their fansites is important needs to relocate to within targetting range of a good sandwich shop.
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:06:00 -
[49]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
Originally by: Gariuys
Edited by: Gariuys on 23/03/2006 11:15:51
MrBlades > Black something.
Gotta love backwards logic. They have isk selling ads to pay for server costs. So I'll give them less money until they remove them.... beautiful, brings a tear to my eye.
My point here is that ISK ads aren't the only way to advertise. Why choose something so negative when there is plenty of ways to make money for the radio show without supporting something so negative.
For example on air advertisment. There are currently at least 3 ads that I know of with in game corps advertising recruitment, yet this is a free service (short of the in game ISK cost, which should have no real monitary value). Strangly enough you could buy the ISK you need for the on air adverstiment on their website using real money so that you could buy the on air advertisment using the ISK (fake money) you bought on the add..
I know everyone here wants to support Eve Radio at all cost since they are a non-profit organization but sometimes you have to realize that bad managment is bad managment regardless of whether its a non-profit or profit organization.
Kryss please stop trying to stir, this is not the thread about isk sales this is the thread about mistakes that were made and for reference if you had actually bothered to read the correspondance, eve-radio has stated that they do attempt to filter isk add's and that they in no way support isk selling the isk selling ad's are selected based on content of the website. This is also a wider issue of funding all community sites as not all of the sites that support eve out there cannot ask for donations for site upkeep I know my site doesn't warrent the level of community use to make it dontation viable but ad's do. And again if CCP thought that these add's were harming the community in any major way they would have asked certain major eve sites to remove them. The isk generated from ingame corp advertising is used to subserdise ingame competitions which are an important part of eve radio's make up.
Please have your facts straight before you post again.
I'm not trying to stir anything up, I simply don't buy the "we have to do it to keep afloat" argument. The fact that Eve Radio denounces ISK sales is irrelevant and has no baring on the fact that they support it by offering a quick link from their website to the ISK sellers. This isn't a question of logistics, this is a question of Ethical decesion making. If you know google is going to run ISK ads and your against them you should remove them, period. Making lame excuses for why you leave them on your site excuses nothing.
Think of it this way. Lets say you running a church and you need money to keep it running. Would you allow drug dealers to pay you a cut of their profits to let them hang out at your church to try and lure your patrons to buy there drugs? You could denounce it all you want, by letting them be their you are essentially supporting their activity.
Your wrong, this is about ISK sellers. This is exactly why they exist, because the community gives them the forum to exist. We claim to hate them, yet their business continues to flourish in every MMO. Why is that? Because people buy their ISK there and they find them through marketing ads.
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Professor McFly
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I'm not trying to stir anything up, I simply don't buy the "we have to do it to keep afloat" argument. The fact that Eve Radio denounces ISK sales is irrelevant and has no baring on the fact that they support it by offering a quick link from their website to the ISK sellers. This isn't a question of logistics, this is a question of Ethical decesion making. If you know google is going to run ISK ads and your against them you should remove them, period. Making lame excuses for why you leave them on your site excuses nothing.
Think of it this way. Lets say you running a church and you need money to keep it running. Would you allow drug dealers to pay you a cut of their profits to let them hang out at your church to try and lure your patrons to buy there drugs? You could denounce it all you want, by letting them be their you are essentially supporting their activity.
Your wrong, this is about ISK sellers. This is exactly why they exist, because the community gives them the forum to exist. We claim to hate them, yet their business continues to flourish in every MMO. Why is that? Because people buy their ISK there and they find them through marketing ads.
Have to agree tbh. I don't buy the "we can't afford to run without ISK ads" either.
__________________
Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk
mods - pwning sigs since 1943 |
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:10:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Winterblink on 23/03/2006 13:10:15
Originally by: Wrangler
It's what you do that defines you. Didn't you see Batman Begins? Jokes aside, I actually believe that to be true.
I try to live my life like Batman as much as the next guy, so one thing I don't do is go public when I have an issue with someone's actions. I still see no reason the community needed to be involved in this at all, and should have been a private discussion between the parties involved. At the very least, it shouldn't have hit the EO forums like it did yesterday, and continues to do so now.
Prior to this whole business, I'd had the utmost respect for all primaries in this matter, but I can't help but watch sadly as that respect dropped a digit or two. And that has nothing to do with the advertisements which started the whole thing, because life's too short to be raising a stink about how someone runs their website.
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Moadib Johnson
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Winterblink
Edited by: Winterblink on 23/03/2006 13:10:15
Originally by: Wrangler
It's what you do that defines you. Didn't you see Batman Begins? Jokes aside, I actually believe that to be true.
I try to live my life like Batman as much as the next guy, so one thing I don't do is go public when I have an issue with someone's actions. I still see no reason the community needed to be involved in this at all, and should have been a private discussion between the parties involved. At the very least, it shouldn't have hit the EO forums like it did yesterday, and continues to do so now.
Prior to this whole business, I'd had the utmost respect for all primaries in this matter, but I can't help but watch sadly as that respect dropped a digit or two. And that has nothing to do with the advertisements which started the whole thing, because life's too short to be raising a stink about how someone runs their website.
Can I offer you a gourmet Chicken sandwich with Lemon & Tarragon Mayo on a bed of fresh spinach leaves?
Honestly it will help you forget all about this inconsequential waste of your minds storage.
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:20:00 -
[53]
Gourmet chicken? Got anything with beef?
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:21:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Moadib Johnson
Can I offer you a gourmet Chicken sandwich with Lemon & Tarragon Mayo on a bed of fresh spinach leaves?
Honestly it will help you forget all about this inconsequential waste of your minds storage.
Thank you, Alfred. *munch, munch*
*Goes back to gazing out upon the sprawling estate of Wayne manor, thinking about which Bentley to take to go to EB, and when would be a good time to wake the two supermodels sleeping away in bed*
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Benilopax
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:21:00 -
[55]
Alas, this stuff always happens; we eve players take it too far.
In my own personal experience BlackHole Bob has been a great help to me in getting footage for a film im working on about mmorpg's. Eve-radio however did make fun of me during a show because i requested a song they didn't like. So I'm gonna side with Bob on this.
Personal feelings aside, its a shame such a cool project of eve-radio and eve-nn working together has been shattered by mud slinging.
For shame.
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:28:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Winterblink
I try to live my life like Batman as much as the next guy, so one thing I don't do is go public when I have an issue with someone's actions.
You dress up in black tights and a cape and fight crime at night too?
Originally by: Winterblink
I still see no reason the community needed to be involved in this at all, and should have been a private discussion between the parties involved. At the very least, it shouldn't have hit the EO forums like it did yesterday, and continues to do so now.
I agree, personally, but they did choose to make it public. And from my standpoint, as a moderator, this is a valid topic. Unless the thread starter requests it, or the thread meets the criteria for a lock, it will remain open.
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2006.03.23 13:34:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Wrangler
You dress up in black tights and a cape and fight crime at night too?
Naw, I climb Tibetan mountains to pick flowers, and beat the crap out of Liam Neeson. He keeps asking for rematches, and I keep having to explain to nurses at the Emerg that he fell down some stairs.
Originally by: Wrangler
I agree, personally, but they did choose to make it public. And from my standpoint, as a moderator, this is a valid topic. Unless the thread starter requests it, or the thread meets the criteria for a lock, it will remain open.
Oh by no means am I suggesting you lock anything, I was merely making a suggestion to the folks involved that maybe the best place for poo flinging isn't in a public place.
Trying to be constructive, y'know. :p
Warp Drive Active | Nature Vraie |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:05:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Winterblink
Oh by no means am I suggesting you lock anything, I was merely making a suggestion to the folks involved that maybe the best place for poo flinging isn't in a public place.
Trying to be constructive, y'know. :p
But it is the best place, otherwise we couldn't laugh about it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Diaego
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:07:00 -
[59]
Okay, at the end of the day then, the community needs to make a decision. We require the income to pay for our equipment. We are not able to obtain the revenue required through donations alone. Ad Words (The Google ads) offer one of the higher CPC rates û if anyone can suggest a service that is similar, but will not show ISK ads, as I keep saying we will certainly look to switch to it.
ItÆs all well and good people calling us liars and what have you and saying there are ôother waysö to greater revenue, but are these people presenting viable alternatives to us? No. Believe us, we have looked for them.
The decision is, do we take the Google ads away, and then eventually shut down û or keep the Google ads for a little while longer until our other service is ready? If people want to buy ISK, they will do it, regardless of whether Google displays an Ad on our site. We are not forcing people to buy the ISK, we just need them to click on the Ad.
What you are asking us to do is to essentially shut down. ItÆs expensive to run 2 x 100Mbps connections + servers + maintenance and so on, we canÆt keep it going without the advertising revenue. As soon as we have another way to keep us going, weÆll take these adverts down.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:10:00 -
[60]
Keep them up, you provide a very cool service to the community. And tomorrow all this is long forgotten.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
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Viktor Fyretracker
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:13:00 -
[61]
i will point this out that google ads just use the content of the site to generate the ad itself, unless there is some control over the ads that get sent from gooogle there isnt much to do.
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Reinetor
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:16:00 -
[62]
I like Eve Radio.
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Maggot
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:22:00 -
[63]
Moadib Johnson, you clearly have it easy, your only dilemma is a sandwich shop.
Where I work I have to make the tricky decision between a huge range of lunch time outlets, including 8 different sandwich shops, 2 sushi bars, a noodle house, and a indian.
After much sweating over the decision I went for a chicken curry to deal with my spiced wine hangover. Eat that!
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ToxicFire
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:23:00 -
[64]
Stealthly replaces everyone in the room with monkeys.
This thread started so nicely, still going nicely just a little rough in places now. Winterblink in tights... you just know thats going to lead to a comic.
And for reference people that don't buy the we need google ad's claim try running a website/radio system with high bandwidth support without financial banking from Mr Bags'o'money then you'll have the right to comment on something like this and be listen to. CCP obviously endorses eve radio as they have them linked to from the main page, and im pritty sure they know that eve radio has some isk ad's on the site as im sure many of the other sites on that list probably have ad's too. CCP has choosen to keep those links there. In my opinion CCP's word is gospel when it comes to eve, if they say we'll all be flying pink ships that only fire snow balls from now on then we'll all be flying pink ships that only fire snow balls from now on. The point is CCP is aware, and its obviously chosen to accept the fact that some sites need ad revenue to support them and that these ad's may include no deliberate isk ad's.
Rember these are people that are volunteering there time when they could be playing eve for themselves spending time with their real life, entertaining you for free they are also providing the service totally free of charge. Heres an Idea for you people I say CCP subserdises eve-radio eve-nn and eve-underground radio by adding a few extra cents onto the subscription fee's for eve. Tbh without community support like eve radio and eve nn eve wouldn't be growing we wouldn't be drooling over the new info of upcoming warp core stab nerfs and new BS's, the community owes these people not the other way around.
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Diaego
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:23:00 -
[65]
Just to note, if you check out www.eve-radio.com, you'll notice we've added the facility for you to report ISK selling ads, which we will then add to the block list. It is a very transparent process, when you report it, we will post to confirm it has been blocked.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:39:00 -
[66]
Originally by: ToxicFire
This thread started so nicely, still going nicely just a little rough in places now. Winterblink in tights... you just know thats going to lead to a comic.
Don't go giving him any ideas now, after his last comic about me I'm a bit worried already. 
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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Spokesperson
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:45:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Diaego
Just to note, if you check out www.eve-radio.com, you'll notice we've added the facility for you to report ISK selling ads, which we will then add to the block list. It is a very transparent process, when you report it, we will post to confirm it has been blocked.
Diaego
Founder
EVE-Radio.com
Well done
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Wrangler
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Posted - 2006.03.23 14:50:00 -
[68]
Ok, thats it, from now any any differences regarding this issue can be handled privately, or on your own forums.
I honestly hope you all can work this out, because it just seems like a few misunderstandings grew out of proportion and it's just sad to see such big contributing fansites to fight over things like this. And it doesn't really matter who started what and why, it's finishing it that I'd like to see.
Good luck with eve-radio and that new thingy you're starting, good luck to eve-nn and evegathering, I hope you all will continue with the good things, and sort out this issue in a good way, meaning not just leave it, but actually resolve your differences.
Locked.
[Read the Rules!] - [Contact us] |
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