Originally by: shakaZ XIV

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As for the astarte/absolution: dps is no where near 1300, 750-850 dps or so is more realistic for Astarte (but keep in mind, its really slow, getting in blaster range is a huge pain) and 600-700 for absolution with pulse II + conflagration (not counting the 1 med nos, ofc you could fit a hvy launcher for another 30 dps...). Absolution's range with pulses is also really low.

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Originally by: Tousaka Langley

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Originally by: Naal Morno

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Originally by: Tousaka Langley

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Originally by: Naal Morno

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But your argument is still not valid since ALL OTHER field command have higher tankability AND higher damage over Nighthawk. This is not the case with Nighthawk. Why are you arguing it is ok when it is not?

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Please break down why all other field command ships are better at tanking then the NH. I am not sure what you mean by "this is not the case with the nighthawk."

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"AND" is the key word.

Albeit tanking is on par, damage output is not. I am talking about Nighthawk being subpar to other Field Commands with its inferior comparative damage delta (negative!!!) vs its HAC counterpar.

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I don't beleive that the NH is merely on par with other FC's. I think it is down right superior. Certainly the lack of EM resists hurts, but it's above par ability to negate thermal and kinetic damage along with the natural bonus to resistences and higher base shield lead me to beleive it is better then it's foriegn competition. If someone can break down for me that it is on par with other ships in tanking instead of superior, then I will openly admit that something is seriously wrong.

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Originally by: Ganandorf

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Basically, you want to get a raven of command ships, since as we all know a raven does way less dps then most other BS's yet pwns them all? imo nighthawk is fine if you're putting equal DPS on a nighthawk it'd be so overpowered, imagine a raven with 1100 DPS, 9k shield and 80% resistance across the board

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Originally by: SavageThrash

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ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :)

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Originally by: Double TaP

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Originally by: SavageThrash

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Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44
ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :)

To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type.

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tbh i dont see how 400dps is overpowered. thats if your numbers are right. no doubt you would need a bcs or 2 for sure. but dont forget about a velocity bonus. The raven, the cerb, and the caracal all have a 10% missile velocity bonus. This is badly needed on the nighthawk to make the t2 ammo useful. But put this on the test server:

Battlecruiser skill bonus: 5% heavy missile Rof and 5% shield resists per level.
CommandShip skill bonus: 10% heavy missile velocity and 5% heavy missile RoF

Just put it on the test server for pete sakes so we can dual some of the other command ships and maybe a tier 1 bs or something. If it seems over done replace the 2nd RoF bonus with kinetic missile damage bonus. But its not a cerb, its a battlecruiser that should be doing 150% the damage of cerb.

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Originally by: Glarion Garnier

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Would be logical if Nighthawk bonuses would be put in line with the ones like Astarte (ok ship btw.) Sleipnir, Absolution.

Nighthawk bonuses solution:

-Make cruiser sized rocket launcher. Heavy rockets
-Give Nitghawk bonuses to Heavy missiles and Heavy Rockets ROF , then give Heavy rockets additional Rof or dmg bonus to fix them as the weapon of choise

bonuses:
1 shield resistances tho I rather had shield booster bonus like Sleipnir (why caldari should have gimped tanking)
2 5% Heavy Missile and heavy rocket ROF ,

3 5 % to Heavy missiles kinetic dmg and 10% to Heavy Rockets kinetic dmg per command ship lvl

something like that.

so with allmost maxed skills they would have short range weapons dmg output bit lower when compared to astarte (10-15%)

I just started training Caldari cruiser 5. I hope Its not totally wasted skill training.

and fix the siq and agility issues of Command ships. + increase locking ranges of all command ships with 25% or so . Vulture could use even more as it has poor dmg.

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Originally by: Ishmael Hansen

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Well, I finally fly it and I'm not impressed either. Why does it have less grid then the ferox? it has half the sleipnir grid already, which can fit a xl shield booster.

My setup atm includes 3 bcu's II, and gosh it sucks. Well, at least I think I'll be flying a sleipnir in less then 2 months, which I foresee will be before the NH gets fixed.

Damned me for choosing caldari.

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Originally by: Sadist

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Originally by: Necrologic

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It would be so simple to realease a fix with the needed changes to deimos and nighthawk.

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Deimos first. I've been waiting for a PG deimos fix for a year now, with nothing coming.
Cant even fit a rack of ions+nos.

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Originally by: SavageThrash

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In response to kilrock;s post yes, the nighthawk does its job ok but why do we ahve to have the frig killer? were not arguing that the nighthawk isnt a good frig killer we arguing that the its damage is no where near what it should be, if the nighthawk should go into any catogoery it would be much better as a "logistic ship" in its current state killing frigs then what its role should make it, a high damage assult ship like all other command ships.

As for a tank setup someone was asking for, if its the nighthawk tank setup your looking for,

1 faction large booster (no xl here cause were not overpowered and fit the smallest guns (which still have uber dmg) and have massive amounts of pg left over *coughsleipcough*)

1 med cap injector
1 invul
1 em
boost amp

Now thats a pretty wicked tank, but it also cost a several hundred mill, compared to a t2 absolution tank which is very good considering its price.

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Originally by: SavageThrash

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Edited by: SavageThrash on 02/07/2006 20:34:27

Originally by: Necrologic

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Any ship with faction tanks pritty damn well. I think a better example would be a t2 kit.

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Yes but i was stating that you need a faction tank on a nighthawk to equal a t2 tank on an absolution.

5 slot tank need to be faction to be equivilent to an effictivly 8 slot absolution tank (med cap injector)

add 2 dmg mods and u still have a 6 slot effective tank.

For a t2 tank you bascially take teh tank setup i mentioned and replace it with a t2 large booster.

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Originally by: Nekora

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Edited by: Nekora on 04/07/2006 23:38:03
Edited by: Nekora on 04/07/2006 23:37:35
Would be nice, but the other races have a damage and rof. RoF actualy gives a better DPS than Damage bonus. so i can not realy justify it. if you have a reason why a second RoF as apposed to Damage, please inform us. Its always good to hear a fresh opinion/viewpoint on a topic.

Ad for you lazy bum's who have not read all 16 pages, the curent (we hijacked the original thread :)) topic is the modification of the Nighthawk bonus to reflect the other Field Command Ships. Or Vice versa, although no-one seems to have taken a likeing to that. I Wonder Why?

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Originally by: Nekora

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So, its mainly for the extra DPS? Sure why not. Would be usefull for longer engagements. However i am still concerned by the ammo nessasary. But i suppose that can be coped with. By the way, i did not say 5% kenetic Damage. I said 5% damage, meaning all types.

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Originally by: Nekora

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Originally by: Necrologic

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Originally by: Nekora

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So, its mainly for the extra DPS? Sure why not. Would be usefull for longer engagements. However i am still concerned by the ammo nessasary. But i suppose that can be coped with. By the way, i did not say 5% kenetic Damage. I said 5% damage, meaning all types.

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I doubt CCP would give 5% to all damage types. I don't think any ship has that.

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Then you are not looking hard enough, and dont tell me the 5% to Medium Projectile Turret damage, 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret damage don't exist. Because then you would be lieing.

Pft, no ship has thas that eh.... sheeesh. Some people.

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Originally by: Double TaP

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hmm. if 2 RoF bonuses uses too much ammo, youd have to reload to often which isnt practical. The Nighthawk could get the same bonus as the kestrel maybe, with 1 RoF bonus. So it would be

5% bonus to shield resists
5% bonus to heavy missile RoF

10% Missile Velocity
10% bonus to Kinetic missile damage and 5% bonus to EM, Explosive, and Thermal missile damage per level.

That would be balanced imo. Kinetic would still be dealing more damage, but you wouldnt be gimped and wasting a bonus if you went with another damage type.

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Originally by: Double TaP

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ah **** tuxford, please fix my ship

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Originally by: Kaylana Syi

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Originally by: Annabella Rose

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btw. the Vulture allready is a Hybrid sniper Platform so why you guys suggest two sniper command ships

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because vulture doesn't do any damage

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Originally by: LVirus

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Originally by: Double TaP

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Originally by: LVirus

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i started to train for gallente cruiser 5, ill be flying a astarte in no time.
btw, plz fix NH and VULTURE

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Well the vulture isnt too bad off. It can tank like nothin else. It should'nt have very much firepower, none of the fleet command ships should. But the field command ships that require the HAC skill tree should. Like the nighthawk.

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targeting range?

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Originally by: Ecce Drihten

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Why are we on page 6? This still has not been fixed... so it needs to go back to page 1!!

Really, why has this not been looked at. I think the Alliance Tournament would have clearly shown tht while the NH can tank, it can't kill. It can't even easily kill the frigs the devs INSIST this is meant to pop.

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Originally by: Ecce Drihten

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Or that they are busy developing assault missles to fix it. News of that would be nice though.....

At least give us hope!

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