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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:34:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: j0sephine
Edited by: j0sephine on 24/03/2006 17:12:30
"As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair."
Let's try a more fair comparison. then. Field commands are effectively "beefed up HACs" since they rely on the heavy assault skill, and are expected to be "damage dealers" of the command ships according to their description.
So, let's see how damage of each field command ship scales in comparison to 'damage dealing' HAC of their race.
* Zealot: 4 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 6.7 'raw' turrets
* Absolution: 6 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 10 'raw' turrets
* Deimos: 5 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 7.8 turrets
* Astarte: 7 turrets with 56.25% dmg bonus ... equals 10.9 turrets
* Vagabond: 5 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 turrets
* Sleipnir: 7 turrets with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 11.7 turrets
* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers
to summarize:
* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus
... do you still think one ship out of these 4 doesn't stand out in curious manner, here.. as far as damage output goes? :/
(in order to make the Nighthawk match the other field commands, she'd need to be given one more launcher hardpoint --as all other field commands get +2 primary weapons-- ... and one precision bonus changed to 25% rof, since the field commands practically copy the damage boosts of 'their' HACs ... with Nighthawk being one odd exception)
Nice post I have the same feelings about the nighthawk
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.04.25 20:53:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Heh j0.
You know as well as I do that even with nerfed prescisons it's gonna be godly against frigs, and better still be able to do that at long range.
Some T2 ships are highly specalist. I don't really see this as a problem. People want a Caldari ship which swats frigates, and the Nighthawk IS that.
Sorry i didnt feel like adding this to my last post but this is wat really gets me.
Moa = anti frigate
caracal = Anti frig with perscion
Eagle = Anti frigate
cerb = anti frigate with perscion or withou tperscion
nighthawk = anti frigate
vulture = Anti frigate
Anyone see a problem here? Caldari has enough anti frigate ships and who said that caldari wanted ANOTHER anti frigate ship that also has less damage then the cerb? I am sure didn't. Caldari dont need another anti frigate ship and a belive most people will agree. Caldari just needs a ship with equal damage to the other command ships or maybe slightly less as it is just a f1 to f6 ship.
If you want an anti frig ship get a caracal or cerb for goodness sakes not a command battle cruiser. A battle cruiser is ment to be an anti cruiser ship anyways. Just like command ships are supposed to be anti hac and a high damage ship.
Please dont give the excuse that caldari needs another anti frigate ship as well certianly dont need another or want another.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.03 15:33:00 -
[3]
I have quickfitted this ship many times, still looks like an overweight cerb imho.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.12 09:39:00 -
[4]
I am here so this gets fixed
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.17 11:40:00 -
[5]
The Nighthawk Still needs some serious looking into, please do something for us :(
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.27 12:56:00 -
[6]
TO my amazment last night, i found that a corp mate in his sleipnir could fit his whole setup with 220 ac (still rediculously out dmg my missles by about 350 dps) a tank setup that is about the same as my nighthawks except for one thing
Gist b-type XL booster
dg boost amp
true sansha med cap injector
invul field t2
scram or anther hardner
lows are a dmg control few dmg mods and a pdu
Now lets take a look what my night have can fit with out being stupidly reliant on low slot pg and cpu mods,
gist x type LARGE booster
dg boost amp
Medium electrochemucal cap injector
invul field t2
photon t2
Now there seems to be somethign very wrong here, i get a wonderful 25% res bonus, thats all fine and danady but lets loot at teh b type xl teh sleip is running
amp
576 + 37.5% =792
bonus
792 + 37.5% =1089
imps
1089 + 34% =1459 boost for about 180 energy,
good res good boost and good dps, seems the nighthawk has really gotten cheated out of its "awesome" tanking bonus.
For comparison to fit an xl booster on a nh you could fit all of 4 launchers adn teh booster, wonderful aint it
Gist x-type 269
with amp and imps (lg set used liek before) you boost becomes about 495, for just under a 100 cap. still hardly seems fair that the nh is suposed to be a good tanking ship, funny thing is i could armour tank it with teh same number of slows... yay?
Now these are both pretty good tanks for a pretty good amoutn of it, just to bad that you cant use t2 to tank the nh like an absolution and have the most uber tank known to eve with out burning a whole in your pocket.
now honestly the nighthawk does need a fixing, the nh is a great mission ship for all you that do missions but honestly look at its background its a pvp based ship with fitting gang mods etc so please fix it and make it useful in pvp and let it do some real damage.
/rant off
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.27 14:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 27/05/2006 14:21:10
Exactly my point jin that would be like me fitting light missles to get an xl booster on my nh. it would tank good but i would have no dmg. I dont see how a sleip can do it if the devs had any idea wat the possiblity to the pg and cpu they gave it could allow it to do.
FYI the sleip has 300 pg left over after fitting a full setup, so any one with a brain would realise, "300 pg hmm, Xlarge booster? YES!!! OMG!!!!!!!!11111oneoneonoenoneoeneoeneoeelevenelevenelevenelelven"
Fix the over grascious pg on teh sleip and please fix the nh
/sob
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.27 21:00:00 -
[8]
But you still get uber dmg with the 220s so who cares....
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.05.29 20:58:00 -
[9]
Even compared to other ships with heavy missles its dmg is poor. assults would be nice but i still think the use of heavys should do more dmg.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.02 15:56:00 -
[10]
Heh, it will still be gimped for a while. I took a risk when I started training for it over a month ago that it would get changed.
I was wrong
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.04 17:45:00 -
[11]
Tux, any thought on the nighthawk loving yet?
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.08 22:53:00 -
[12]
Hmm you all own the nighthawk bpo's. Seems i am the only one that flys it then. Wow i should get these things awfully cheap then 
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.15 11:59:00 -
[13]
****es me off really, the nighthawk is gimped beyond belief and the devs know that, yet they contiune to put it off. Assult missles would be cool but we all know it will take to atleast kali (and who knows how far that is) to get them and still the nighthawks bonuses are useless. Its a quick fix, please just change it.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.15 13:39:00 -
[14]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 15/06/2006 13:39:35
Originally by: j0sephine
* Cerberus: 5 launchers with 25% dmg, 25% rof bonus ... equals 8.3 launchers
* Nighthawk: 6 launchers with 25% dmg nonus ... equals 7.5 launchers
to summarize:
* absolution: 150% damage of zealot
* astarte: 140% damage of deimos
* sleipnir: 140% damage of vagabond
* nighthawk: 90% damage of cerberus
One small thing j0 the nighthawk only gets 25% dmg bonus if command ships lvl 5 is trained which most people wont do. the cerbs 5% dmg come from cruiser 5 so it sutomatically does 25%. So you should have calculated the nh with 20% dmg not 25%. anyways.... Very very good post j0 and i think a special few should take another look that that.
The problem is not that the devs dont notice it now or even when they designed the ship its their blatenet disregard for the people that have trained it and all they want is a small little fix which could eaisly be solved.
Not as many people complained about the recent IPO scam but yet us that have lost months in training for this ship now have our skillpoints locked in with it forever? people can make isk back, we cant take our skillpoints elsewhere, so fix it.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.16 18:19:00 -
[15]
for all i care give it a rof bonus and make it 5% dmg for cruiser skill and screw assults, then 1 other bonus tht takes care of the perscion bonus like erm target painting?
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.17 18:48:00 -
[16]
In response to the minny having a very low targeting range, they are mostly close range ships and dont get range bonuses :)
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.19 00:53:00 -
[17]
I belive you ment to say cerb not caracal?
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.19 13:03:00 -
[18]
^^^^ big problem for the nighthawk but the caracal wtfpwns all other t1 cruisers :)
I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :(
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.19 14:55:00 -
[19]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 14:54:49
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: SavageThrash
I have already sucked it up and realized that i might as well put my gunnery to use and train ammar :(
Or wait for the Tier 3 BS!
Or fly a Railferox
Or fly an Eagle
Or fly a Moa
So many options!
railferox = bad for pvp
moa = long range low dmg, bad for pvp
eagle = long range low dps, once again bad, and it dont work with blasters
tier 3 bs long ways away and will prolly be a long range rail like moa and eagle, once again not what i would like for pvp. I dont want a longrange anti frigate ship what the ferox and eagle are. the only difference is that while and eagle can pop a frig before it knows whats going on the tier 3 bs maybe able to pop a cruiser or bc before it warps off.....
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.19 20:58:00 -
[20]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 19/06/2006 21:06:44
ok with a rof bonus and kinetic missle bonus, you would get about 350 dps with decent everyday joe skills, now 2 rof bonuses would be approx 400 dps. thats where its at :)
To look at it overall though, all thats needed is a rof bonus. although 2 would be sweet it would prolly be a little overpowered. considering that you can choose ur dmg type.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.20 00:52:00 -
[21]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 20/06/2006 00:51:55
Those numbers are with 3 t2 bcu and my skills , no quickfit here i actully fly the nh :) also this is all done with t1 ammo.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.21 13:28:00 -
[22]
*SavageThrash looks for a wrench*
Let me fix it!
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.25 16:24:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Talenor Darcaneth
I may not be the guy you were talking to, but you had a question, and I will answer.
Originally by: Nekora
So, dont want to release your uber tank setup? Guess we will just have to settle for practical figures based on the ship then.
hmmm, now I want a show of hands from all of you experts who actually fly a Nighthawk.....Ok, thats what I thought: almost none. Its obvious that many of you have not a clue about it, just speculate while training for it, yelling around trying to get it better by the time you get into it. -.- Lets start with the first part: it is a COMMAND SHIP, you need skills and experience to use it. How many of you have ever actually thought of its main strength, which is passive tanking? Passive, no active mods except if using command mod = absolute freedom from nos/cap regen, which allows full rack of t2 fury heavies and no worries. If any of you want, ill show em a ss of a ship, no implants all skills, with 13,287k hp, 80%+ resists to all types, 525sec regen, and shield harmonizing link, and still has one med slot left!.
low: 4xpdu 2/ dmg control (aint active cap wise if u ask me)
Like what I said before, if you dont fly one, dont talk like you know what you're doing until you have the skills and are piloting one. This may not be my pvp/pve setup I always use, that changes on the situation b/c I can, being I have no dmg type and cap lifeline weakness. I dont walk around telling a gunner how to shoot, I explain to people how to actually use caldari warfare strategy and the secrets of the passive tank. Go ahead, plug those numbers into a tank calc, nice huh? Now add in a gist large booster that acts like it doesnt use cap, or make that hp regen smaller b/c of a mid slot recharger....
The only fix the NH needs is agility and dmg via its already existing bonuses, 10% to all heavy and light dmg would make me happy, maybe switch target navi prediction to 5% heavy RoF and 5% precision to 10%? Missiles had an advantage of dmg type choice if i remember in the past, would love to see us have our racial bonus again and not nerfed to just kinetic. I fly a NH b/c of what it can really do in a pvp battlefield from experience, and love it for its specialization and being a pure Caldari strategy based ship. Everyone wants to be a chief before learning how to be a sqaw -.-
Happy Hunting
--------------------------------
Lone Wolf Hunter of the Cascades
Like stated above, as i sit in my nighthawk and look at my resistances with my faction booster and faction hardners bringing all my res over 80% i still ponder why i dont take this ship into pvp, Oh yes i remember now, its damage lacks and cant break the tank of a hac or bs...
Stunningly enough i can tank almost every battleship ingame as long as i dont get nossed but i spent alot more isk then i should have, compared to a t2 absolution that can tank just as nicely with a t2 tank and has the damage to break most battle ships tanks out there.
If you want to say that none of us out here can fly a nighthawk and there your opinion is the only one that counts because you fly the ship, your soley mistaken. I attempt to fly this ship in its present state, which is almost incrediably useless in a gang as it cant provide enough damage to benifit in any way.
Then you will reply but you can have a gang mod, that helps the gang alot. Yeah maybe in a large gang but with 3 and 4 people i would be alot better off in a tempest or a raven with damage. In small gangs the gang mods do not suffice enough to put me out of a high damage ship just to beneift the gang with a little increase here or there and **** poor damage.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.06.29 17:19:00 -
[24]
Fix it or else
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.07.02 19:05:00 -
[25]
In response to kilrock;s post yes, the nighthawk does its job ok but why do we ahve to have the frig killer? were not arguing that the nighthawk isnt a good frig killer we arguing that the its damage is no where near what it should be, if the nighthawk should go into any catogoery it would be much better as a "logistic ship" in its current state killing frigs then what its role should make it, a high damage assult ship like all other command ships.
As for a tank setup someone was asking for, if its the nighthawk tank setup your looking for,
1 faction large booster (no xl here cause were not overpowered and fit the smallest guns (which still have uber dmg) and have massive amounts of pg left over *coughsleipcough*)
1 med cap injector
1 invul
1 em
boost amp
Now thats a pretty wicked tank, but it also cost a several hundred mill, compared to a t2 absolution tank which is very good considering its price.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.07.02 20:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 02/07/2006 20:34:27
Originally by: Necrologic
Any ship with faction tanks pritty damn well. I think a better example would be a t2 kit.
Yes but i was stating that you need a faction tank on a nighthawk to equal a t2 tank on an absolution.
5 slot tank need to be faction to be equivilent to an effictivly 8 slot absolution tank (med cap injector)
add 2 dmg mods and u still have a 6 slot effective tank.
For a t2 tank you bascially take teh tank setup i mentioned and replace it with a t2 large booster.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.07.02 21:13:00 -
[27]
^^^ I could have made it clearer :)
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.07.04 22:58:00 -
[28]
^^^ viable option but a second rof maybe needed still.
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SavageThrash
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Posted - 2006.07.09 18:41:00 -
[29]
I had a dream that tux replied to this thread and said it was going to be fixed on Sunday, unfortunatly it was only aa dream :(
17 days till amarr cruiser 5
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SavageThrash
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.19 20:14:00 -
[30]
The caldari tourny should have shed some light on this issue, i belive it was ISS vs stain fight? I forget which but i do remeber seeing the nighthawk tanking like a mofo while shooting an ishkur was it? Some small gallente frig, yet while it tanked the other ships for several minutes it was not able to kill 1 frig. embarrassing, 2 useless bonuses 4tw 
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SavageThrash
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.20 17:58:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: SavageThrash
The caldari tourny should have shed some light on this issue, i belive it was ISS vs stain fight? I forget which but i do remeber seeing the nighthawk tanking like a mofo while shooting an ishkur was it? Some small gallente frig, yet while it tanked the other ships for several minutes it was not able to kill 1 frig. embarrassing, 2 useless bonuses 4tw
Sorry mr.Clueless Corp muppet.
The ishkur had shield maintenance drones, bumping the shield back to 100%, while he was shooting explosive missiles.
Now shush.
Yes i know he had shield matience drones but thats still not the point, if you cant break a frigs tank that has some shield rep drones on it how to you expects to break anything else's tank? the drones dont due an incredible amount eaither. With full shield and ANY type missle even if it doesnt get a dmg bonus i would expect it to take out a little more then the shield in one volley 0.o
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SavageThrash
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.09 23:15:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:33:43
Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 09/10/2006 22:31:25
Originally by: Tuxford
Vulture's targetting range seems a bit low.
As for the Nighthawk's damage output then I don't think the comparison with Absolution and Astarte are exactly fair. Heavy missiles are a long range weapon, neutron blasters are a short range weapon. Sadly there is no cruiser size short range missile but that will hopefully be added sometime in the near future.
near future my a**. Caladari is gettign screwed bad, all the best ships are either too expensive. or just plain stupid, and nighthawk is plain stupid. iam maxed out on skills TUX. yet someone with everything at lvl 4, can prolly outdamage me and outtank me on any other field command ship,.
screw this s**t about heavys being long range.
5000m's TUx
5000m's cant catch a damn frig, anf lock range is 75km max. long range is for turrets not missile, so either reduce heavs range or just take this ship off the game its the biggest piece of #$@#$@ you ever came up with.
QFMFT
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo
Woah^^^
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SavageThrash
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.10 11:56:00 -
[33]
I have already turned my back on caldari due to there lack of good pvp ships. Sure they have overpowered mission running ships but thats about it and i never run missions so caldari is useless to me. Can someone take all my SP outta caldari and let me reassign it elseware 
Yay for the tempest and the absolution, but i still have useless sp in caldari 
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo
Woah^^^
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SavageThrash
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.10 11:56:00 -
[34]
Edited by: SavageThrash on 10/10/2006 11:59:42
double posty :(
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo
Woah^^^
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SavageThrash
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.10.11 12:02:00 -
[35]
Did somethign very similar to you there ish, i did it with teh absol but i can already use t2 hybrides adn t2 arty and ac so i see cs speccing coming my way soon.
*snip* Please do not discuss moderation in your signature -Eldo
Woah^^^
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