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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
545
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone tells that it is CCPs fault. How? Actually it is mostly players fault, risk aversion and bad choices. When CFC blue up 3/4 of the null and attack the last few standing, ofc you will have a whole thingy piled up in one system. Add to it that you lag the hell out of a system by putting 2k subcaps in it before jumping in heavy things, the result you get are the lost capitals.
I remember when i was in null a couple of years ago, local of 500-600 people made it impossible to do anything. After the TIDI was introduced it lets you manage a battle of 3k+ people. There was a fight in lowsec in Hysera system where the local was around 1200 and the fight was quite enjoyable.
I am aware also that there can be some improvements. But nothing drastical can happen before the next gen technology appears or CCP put lots of time and resources into developing something that can crush this lag. But don't expect that because lot more powerful companies are for sure trying to solve this dilemma without a great success.
In mean time is up to us players. Be less risk averse and enjoy the game. Is not all about winning. Dissolve this blue donut and you will have a great game to spend your time in. Russians should start pushing from west and N3 from east. In no time the blue donut will disappear and Null will have few more coalitions.
And whenever a new blue donut is on the horizon. They should be stomped before even contemplating the idea about it. Nullsec atm is all about people being sheep. Think with your heads, rise up and shoot each other and you will have tremendous amount of fun.
Frenemies is the best possible thing for this game and it is a fact in lowsec. Everyone shoot everyone but when a blob is around we form up together and put it down. Than again back to shoot each other.
It is not that thousands people are deciding, only a dozen have a word in it. But why they should change the status quo when they have RL interests. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |

Sakaron Hefdover
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah pretty much
but right now More numbers > less numbers, which is why everyone has banded together. |

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
547
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sakaron Hefdover wrote:Yeah pretty much
but right now More numbers > less numbers, which is why everyone has banded together.
It is not true. Less numbers can win and they do so often, don't be misled. It is about the personal gain of few people that are shepard to 99% of the null. If you had leaders that care about their members and are devoted to make their gameplay experience much more fun we would talk now about a whole another game.
I also agree that sov mechanics sucks. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2432
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Everyone tells that it is CCPs fault. How? Actually it is mostly players fault, risk aversion and bad choices. When CFC blue up 3/4 of the null and attack the last few standing, ofc you will have a whole thingy piled up in one system. Add to it that you lag the hell out of a system by putting 2k subcaps in it before jumping in heavy things, the result you get are the lost capitals. 6VDT handled more than 4k. This should have survived this fight. Fights get bigger, CCP markets on that, so they should make it actually possible to do.
Zloco Crendraven wrote:I am aware also that there can be some improvements. But nothing drastical can happen before the next gen technology appears or CCP put lots of time and resources into developing something that can crush this lag. But don't expect that because lot more powerful companies are for sure trying to solve this dilemma without a great success. Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. While it's a single universe, it works no differently to interlinked servers. Essentially when you swap systems, you swap server. IRC pretty much does what EVE does and that ancient. 10 years ago, a game doing thsi was pretty spectacular, now, not so much. They need to bring their code up to standard and multithread it so it's less of a joke. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Simple game mechanics for holding a system, dropping an object on a system, waiting for a timer. They can do better.
Something like this:
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/some-ideas-on-eve/an-influence-sovereignty-system/
would be far better that what is in place, because then people would have to actually use the system to hold it.
Even faction warfare got more attention than NULL. |

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
549
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 17:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Everyone tells that it is CCPs fault. How? Actually it is mostly players fault, risk aversion and bad choices. When CFC blue up 3/4 of the null and attack the last few standing, ofc you will have a whole thingy piled up in one system. Add to it that you lag the hell out of a system by putting 2k subcaps in it before jumping in heavy things, the result you get are the lost capitals. 6VDT handled more than 4k. This should have survived this fight. Fights get bigger, CCP markets on that, so they should make it actually possible to do. Zloco Crendraven wrote:I am aware also that there can be some improvements. But nothing drastical can happen before the next gen technology appears or CCP put lots of time and resources into developing something that can crush this lag. But don't expect that because lot more powerful companies are for sure trying to solve this dilemma without a great success. Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. While it's a single universe, it works no differently to interlinked servers. Essentially when you swap systems, you swap server. IRC pretty much does what EVE does and that ancient. 10 years ago, a game doing thsi was pretty spectacular, now, not so much. They need to bring their code up to standard and multithread it so it's less of a joke.
It is still pretty much awesome and no meter what CCP does it will always reach the bottleneck if you (Null people) keep being sheep. BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |

Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
19
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads.
I could say you have absolutely no idea what a "thread" is, but instead I'll ask you where you get your information from. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
http://andallcombat.wordpress.com/current-tournament/ |

Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
51
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Everyone tells that it is CCPs fault. How? Actually it is mostly players fault, risk aversion and bad choices. When CFC blue up 3/4 of the null and attack the last few standing, ofc you will have a whole thingy piled up in one system. Add to it that you lag the hell out of a system by putting 2k subcaps in it before jumping in heavy things, the result you get are the lost capitals. 6VDT handled more than 4k. This should have survived this fight. Fights get bigger, CCP markets on that, so they should make it actually possible to do
Oh i wasn't aware the node crashed the other day. That sucks. Oh the node didn't crash?? You just jumped 700 Dreads into a grid loaded by some 2700+ other dudes...then you got upset because your dreads got pushed to the back of the line behind thousands of people, drones and possibly missiles or other ****.
Node survived the entire fight...its not CCP's fault that CFC Capital FC's are ******* retards...
Next time drop on the SBU and then warp into the engagement....worst case scenario you get forced into a DPS race and jump out.
This isn't a hard game. I mean **** you jump one fleet of a hundred dudes in any system and it causes **** to **** up...you did this onto a loaded grid, in a loaded node, with 700 dudes...come on man.
|

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
674
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I can only imagine PL comms.
"Oh **** guys they are cynoing their dreads in!"
"Wait, are those Domi's still on the field?'
"Yea, they're still there."
Long pause....
"Hahahahaha! Target the dreads coming in."
At least that's how it went down in my head.  "You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:you (Null people) keep being sheep.
I may only be little, but..
What autonomy do the High Sec Empires give you by comparison? |

T'aura
Muon Research Limited
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Was HED by any chance on the same node as jita? we had a truck load of TiDi going off there. If so add another 2000 chars and some local spam. |

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
9295
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is a new and exciting thread chock full of never before seen ideas.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. I could say you have absolutely no idea what a "thread" is, but instead I'll ask you where you get your information from. Yes, I as a developer have no idea what a thread is. 
I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by now, but they posted about it like ages ago. Basically the servers run on single threaded stackless python or something along those lines, and due to that they have to work with single monster CPUs rather than distributed load. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Medalyn Isis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
I would have thought one goal for CCP would be to separate certain actions happening in a system onto a multitude of various servers rather than everything going onto a single server as I believe is happening right now. That way you could have one server operating for a number of low traffic systems, and then use multiple servers to split the work load for a system like HED or Jita.
The only way to improve this situation without changing the coding which I am sure would be a massive job, would be to either get even faster servers, or to change the sov mechanics so that it doesn't encourage blobbing.
Large fleet warfare is dead for me, and I have no desire to partake in it along with many others I am sure until CCP does something to resolve it. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Everyone tells that it is CCPs fault. How? Actually it is mostly players fault, risk aversion and bad choices. When CFC blue up 3/4 of the null and attack the last few standing, ofc you will have a whole thingy piled up in one system. Add to it that you lag the hell out of a system by putting 2k subcaps in it before jumping in heavy things, the result you get are the lost capitals. 6VDT handled more than 4k. This should have survived this fight. Fights get bigger, CCP markets on that, so they should make it actually possible to do Oh i wasn't aware the node crashed the other day. That sucks. Oh the node didn't crash?? You just jumped 700 Dreads into a grid loaded by some 2700+ other dudes...then you got upset because your dreads got pushed to the back of the line behind thousands of people, drones and possibly missiles or other ****. Node survived the entire fight...its not CCP's fault that CFC Capital FC's are ******* retards... Next time drop on the SBU and then warp into the engagement....worst case scenario you get forced into a DPS race and jump out. This isn't a hard game. I mean **** you jump one fleet of a hundred dudes in any system and it causes **** to **** up...you did this onto a loaded grid, in a loaded node, with 700 dudes...come on man. (Also comparing to 6vDT is cool...TEST and N3 cynoed in off of the station grid...where 7 Baltec fleets were waiting for them on the station....why would they jump in off grid....so they could load the system and still had hour long jump ins in some cases.) Dude... 700 people have been dumped into fights many many times. On the Jita superserver, nobody could reasonably expect 3600 people to mean mass blackscreens and disconnects. It's super easy to look back with hindsight and say "oh that broke the sever, shouldn't have done that", but at the time it was way under what numbers we've put a standard reinforced node though in the past.
At the end of the day, it was supposed to be set up for a capital fight, and it wasn't.
By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
Medalyn Isis wrote:I would have thought one goal for CCP would be to separate certain actions happening in a system onto a multitude of various servers rather than everything going onto a single server as I believe is happening right now. That way you could have one server operating for a number of low traffic systems, and then use multiple servers to split the work load for a system like HED or Jita.
The only way to improve this situation without changing the coding which I am sure would be a massive job, would be to either get even faster servers, or to change the sov mechanics so that it doesn't encourage blobbing.
Large fleet warfare is dead for me, and I have no desire to partake in it along with many others I am sure until CCP does something to resolve it. They can;t it's single threaded. They can't split the load over multiple CPUs, let alone multiple servers. Things that can be pulled out are, so chat and stuff all runs separately, as I believe does eve-voice. Servers, they are pretty much at the limit of what technology has to offer. See when EVE was designed, processor speeds were growing rapidly and more than capable of coping. Now we have considerably more people trying to get in on a single piece of action, and processor speeds no longer increase at the rate they did previously. They can fight it all they want, but if they want to grow the capability of a node, they are going to have to rewrite core code.
T'aura wrote:Was HED by any chance on the same node as jita? we had a truck load of TiDi going off there. If so add another 2000 chars and some local spam. They stole jita :D Normally Jita runs on a mega node, of which they own 1 I believe, a real monster server. Then they have a bunch of reinforced nodes they can move about, then regular servers. To prepare for the fight, they moved Jita (onto a reinforced I imagine) and they moved HED onto the mega node. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:
By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro.
Is that you, Scott? |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:
By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro.
Is that you, Scott? I am no Scott. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
7
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:
By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro.
Is that you, Scott? I am no Scott.
Ok, you just sound and look like someone I know. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2436
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 19:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro. Is that you, Scott? I am no Scott. Ok, you just sound and look like someone I know. Is his name Scott?
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Is his name Scott?
How did you know...? |

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
554
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:you (Null people) keep being sheep. I may only be little, but.. What autonomy do the High Sec Empires give you by comparison?
The autonomy to think with your head? :D BALEX is recruiting -----> tinyurl.com/oscmmlv |

Billy McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
9
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:you (Null people) keep being sheep. I may only be little, but.. What autonomy do the High Sec Empires give you by comparison? The autonomy to think with your head? :D
No. They do not provide that.
The sooner the donut occurs, no matter whose it is, the better.
Then the Third Transfer of Power will be complete. |

Doc Severide
State War Academy Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. I could say you have absolutely no idea what a "thread" is, but instead I'll ask you where you get your information from. Yes, I as a developer have no idea what a thread is.  Everyone is a developer these days... But many I've seen couldn't develop a polaroid picture... |

Niclas Solo
Caldari High Prime The Marmite Collective
30
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think the FC that said abandon drones and release new once just so the nod would crash should be banned. They are not here to play the game, they are just here to ruin it with their ingame DoS attacks. It is against the rules to drop so many cans so you create lag so dropping drones so you create lag should follow same rule. |

Victor Andall
Complexes and Abaddons
20
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. I could say you have absolutely no idea what a "thread" is, but instead I'll ask you where you get your information from. Yes, I as a developer have no idea what a thread is.  I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by now, but they posted about it like ages ago. Basically the servers run on single threaded stackless python or something along those lines, and due to that they have to work with single monster CPUs rather than distributed load.
And this is exactly why I chose to be quasi-diplomatic instead. My apologies, but these past few days have been filled with people misunderstanding the concept of multithreading, giving multithreading the status of a silver bullet and overall just showing plain ignorance on the topic (I'm a developer here myself).
I was unsure if the multithreading issue was common knowledge or just people running around yelling about it like they've seen the server-side code. Google was less than helpful in this matter. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
http://andallcombat.wordpress.com/current-tournament/ |

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
680
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:By the way, too much swearing. No mad pls bro. Is that you, Scott? I am no Scott. Ok, you just sound and look like someone I know. Is his name Scott?
No, it's Jeff.
"You should just create one thread and put all of your complaints in it instead of littering the forums with multiple threads." ~CCP Falcon
Paranoia never killed anyone. -áA complete absence of it has. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2439
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Billy McCandless wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is his name Scott? How did you know...? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFQCYpIHLNQ The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2439
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 20:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Is this a joke? Their servers run on single threads. I could say you have absolutely no idea what a "thread" is, but instead I'll ask you where you get your information from. Yes, I as a developer have no idea what a thread is.  I'm pretty sure it's common knowledge by now, but they posted about it like ages ago. Basically the servers run on single threaded stackless python or something along those lines, and due to that they have to work with single monster CPUs rather than distributed load. And this is exactly why I chose to be quasi-diplomatic instead. My apologies, but these past few days have been filled with people misunderstanding the concept of multithreading, giving multithreading the status of a silver bullet and overall just showing plain ignorance on the topic (I'm a developer here myself). I was unsure if the multithreading issue was common knowledge or just people running around yelling about it like they've seen the server-side code. Google was less than helpful in this matter. I see, no problems. It's pretty common knowledge about EVE, they've done a devblog or two about it too, as well as forum posts. For them it pretty much is a silver bullet, since it would improve their processing performance considerably. The problem is they hate attacking the core "old" code so they actively avoid it, hence things like POS mechanics remaining unchanged while being awful.
This is an old devblog about it (end of 2011). The main part is:
Quote:On the hardware side we have been somewhat hampered by the fact that the EVE server is largely a single threaded application and thus limited performance-wise by the clockrate of the CPU. In the past we-¦ve been lucky in that we have been able to rely on clockrates increasing year over year. Sadly that party is mostly over for now and the emphasis is on horizontal scaling with multiple cores. Bad news for fleet fights and olGÇÖ single threaded EVE. As far as I am aware, not much has changed, hence the need for reinforced nodes rather than simply distributing the load.
But while a lot of people are right in what they are saying, many are simly echoing what has previously been said, thus don't know what it actually means, so I get the frustration. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |

Frostys Virpio
Lame Corp Name
966
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 21:08:00 -
[30] - Quote
Niclas Solo wrote:I think the FC that said abandon drones and release new once just so the nod would crash should be banned. They are not here to play the game, they are just here to ruin it with their ingame DoS attacks. It is against the rules to drop so many cans so you create lag so dropping drones so you create lag should follow same rule.
You mean DBRB while FC'ing his bomber fleet? |
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