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Professor McFly	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:07:00 - [31] Spot the biased player in the thread, folks __________________ Inappropriate link description. --Jorauk mods - pwning sigs since 1943
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:07:00 - [32] Originally by: Evil Thug ... Mr. Sensitivity? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:09:00 - [33] This is what happens when CCP allows some "third party" software to be used. Will this be a game killer for some? Yes Will this cause alot of "griefing"? Yes Will this be fixed by CCP? NO
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Evil Thug Scout = nono ? Dont whine then. Its simple, really. im not whining? Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Admiral IceBlock everytime you post you make yourself look like an idiot... At least i`m not smacking local, when i`m docked, mr.icecock. ORLY? i dont usually smack tho, but you on the other hand... please, get out and get some fresh air, there IS a world out there you know? "We brake for nobody"
Star Snow	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:31:00 - [35] I belive this tactic gives the user a free perfect invulnerability field and cloaking device for all the ships of their fleet. This breaks the rules of module placement and restrictions. I does not require anything more than a form of communications that are not part of the game world. It REQUIRES an external communication mode inorder to effect the 'log in trap', since they can not be effectively utilized without it. Therefore out of game actions are then legal and can be used to any possibal advantage in game? Originally by: Flyyn This is what happens when CCP allows some "third party" software to be used. But if you can use '"third party" software' why not make E-Bay legal. And yes it is possible to log off in such a way that you will appear at a specific point in space.
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Originally by: Evil Thug ... Mr. Sensitivity? No. Login trap can be easy avoid. I prepared login traps, and i evade from them. People just unable to turn on brain, and think how to evade it. Enemy fleet entered warzone, and then disappeared. Where did they go ? Ok. Next step - add enemys to adressbooks. Oops, they all are red. Ok. Next step - get alt on station with location service agent. Further step - get spy in enemy teamspeak \ forums, so you will be able to know theyr transport routes \ where are they planning trap. People unable to realise, that this is hard work. Unable to do that ? Sit in empire, in newbie corp, or pay for YOUR mistakes. Adapt, or die. And never cry on forums. Crying on forums = low pvp skill. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Xaeon	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Evil Thug Crying on forums = low pvp skill. Sorry, I must have missed the part where log on traps made you good at PvP. 23/03/06 - Chapter III: The Campaign of Keshirou
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Star Snow I belive this tactic gives the user a free perfect invulnerability field and cloaking device for all the ships of their fleet. This breaks the rules of module placement and restrictions. Why dont you cry for log off then ? Its more than invulnerabilty field. Change safespots once per 3 minutes, for 30 min. Then log off. Wow, you are invunerable. People prefer to see only 1 side of the medal. Originally by: Star Snow I does not require anything more than a form of communications that are not part of the game world. It REQUIRES an external communication mode inorder to effect the 'log in trap', since they can not be effectively utilized without it. Therefore out of game actions are then legal and can be used to any possibal advantage in game? Alts from newbie corps. Common ingame channel. And so on. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Xaeon Originally by: Evil Thug Crying on forums = low pvp skill. Sorry, I must have missed the part where log on traps made you good at PvP. You can always check our killboard. Currently we are using killboard of Red Alliance. You can find link to it in alliance section of this forums. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Xaeon	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon Originally by: Evil Thug Crying on forums = low pvp skill. Sorry, I must have missed the part where log on traps made you good at PvP. You can always check our killboard. Currently we are using killboard of Red Alliance. You can find link to it in alliance section of this forums. Stats don't make you good at PvP either - otherwise certain high-stat-long-distance-warp-core-stabbing-sniper-low-sec pirates would be the best in the game. The fact of the matter is that logging on to kill someone is lame. 23/03/06 - Chapter III: The Campaign of Keshirou
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:52:00 - [41] Originally by: Xaeon Stats don't make you good at PvP either - otherwise certain high-stat-long-distance-warp-core-stabbing-sniper-low-sec pirates would be the best in the game. The fact of the matter is that logging on to kill someone is lame. Insert 3 letters here (IMO), and it will be ok. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Xaeon	Posted - 2006.03.27 12:59:00 - [42] Edited by: Xaeon on 27/03/2006 12:58:49 Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon Stats don't make you good at PvP either - otherwise certain high-stat-long-distance-warp-core-stabbing-sniper-low-sec pirates would be the best in the game. The fact of the matter is that logging on to kill someone is lame. Insert 3 letters here (IMO), and it will be ok. Disappearing without a trace and then magically appearing from nowhere isn't right. And don't give me that "imo" bull***. If you get ganked, fine. If you get bubbled, fine. If you have a blob land on you from another system, fine - these things are detectable, i.e. scouts can find any of them. Removing yourself from the game then adding yourself back in when your target is there is not fine. People don't* always have a chance to get out of it. For example - something that recently happened. Corp mate engages hostile, both are scrambled killing one another. Oh look 3 ganking tempests log on while he's pinned and flagged. That is not right. 23/03/06 - Chapter III: The Campaign of Keshirou
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:03:00 - [43] Originally by: Xaeon That is not right. This IS YOUR opinion. Your enemy is here not to pleasure you, but to kill you. See the difference ? ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Admiral IceBlock	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:06:00 - [44] Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon That is not right. This IS YOUR opinion. Your enemy is here not to pleasure you, but to kill you. See the difference ? instead of saying that, why dont you defend why you think its okay? what on earth could you possibly say that would actully defend this tactic? maybe use what people call a brain to answer this one.. "We brake for nobody"
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:11:00 - [45] Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon That is not right. This IS YOUR opinion. No Evil, it's not an opinion, it is fact. Logontraps are exploits. The punishments aren't enforced because CCP can't enforce them because they don't feel they can sufficiently prove the exploit. But please don't try and talk this right by relativation ok ? Hacking the client being an exploit is not an opinion. Hacking someon's TS being wrong is not an opinion, and logintraps being wrong is not an opinion either. Ore stealing being wrong, that's an opinion. If you can't see the difference, you should stop posting on these forums. I think you can tho, but just don't want to admit to you opinion that being a leetass killmailmachine is less important then game rules to you. Power to the players !
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:15:00 - [46] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon That is not right. This IS YOUR opinion. No Evil, it's not an opinion, it is fact. Logontraps are exploits. The punishments aren't enforced because CCP can't enforce them because they don't feel they can sufficiently prove the exploit. But please don't try and talk this right by relativation ok ? Hacking the client being an exploit is not an opinion. Hacking someon's TS being wrong is not an opinion, and logintraps being wrong is not an opinion either. Ore stealing being wrong, that's an opinion. If you can't see the difference, you should stop posting on these forums. I think you can tho, but just don't want to admit to you opinion that being a leetass killmailmachine is less important then game rules to you. I think if everybody does Logon/Login Tactics, there will be a widespread of cries in the forum, and CCP will have to implement something? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Toyal Wiulaz	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:16:00 - [47] An other thread about "log off/log on tactic is lame". Stop crying on the forum and adapt to it. Always the same whiners. If you'r not happy with it, go seek for an other alliance to fight or you can even quit the game? what about that? kthxbye ----------------------------------------- I speak QC tabarnak! QC 4tw! :)
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:17:00 - [48] Originally by: Toyal Wiulaz An other thread about "log off/log on tactic is lame". Stop crying on the forum and adapt to it. Always the same whiners. If you'r not happy with it, go seek for an other alliance to fight or you can even quit the game? what about that? kthxbye RA 4tw. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Amerame	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:24:00 - [49] I'm not a big fan of log in trap, though when it comes to freighters everything's fair. We had several freighters scrambled and pooof they're gone within 30 seconds, thanks to the PvP timer that does not activate if the guy is logged off. Freighters are in god mode unless you log on trap them.
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:25:00 - [50] Originally by: Admiral IceBlock Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Xaeon That is not right. This IS YOUR opinion. Your enemy is here not to pleasure you, but to kill you. See the difference ? instead of saying that, why dont you defend why you think its okay? what on earth could you possibly say that would actully defend this tactic? I havent said, that this is great tactic, or something. But i think, that this tactic is acceptable. Why ? Because due to game mechanic you can avoid battle, if you dont want to. Remove traps ? Ok. Give alternate routes to FORCE your enemy to accept combat - remove local chat, so everyone will be able to use cloaking device, to prepare trap. Remove instas. Remove safespots. Undocked from station ? - Wellcome to the jungle. Most sad thing in EVE - that blob can be countered only by another blob. And all those changes - only provoking people to form blobs, and turn theyr brains off. Sad. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:36:00 - [51] Like logonganking requires any higher brain function Look, its wrong, period. You get an advantage using game mechanics in a manner definately not intended. I keep wondering what that is a definition of. Power to the players !
Evil Thug	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:39:00 - [52] Originally by: Rod Blaine No Evil, it's not an opinion, it is fact. Logontraps are exploits. The punishments aren't enforced because CCP can't enforce them because they don't feel they can sufficiently prove the exploit. But please don't try and talk this right by relativation ok ? Hacking the client being an exploit is not an opinion. Hacking someon's TS being wrong is not an opinion, and logintraps being wrong is not an opinion either. Ore stealing being wrong, that's an opinion. If you can't see the difference, you should stop posting on these forums. I think you can tho, but just don't want to admit to you opinion that being a leetass killmailmachine is less important then game rules to you. I actually enjoyed reading your posts. Why ? Because you can back it up with arguments. But now - i`m unable to agree with you. Just because you haven`t got "ISD Dev Team" lable, under your nickname. There is only few persons, who able to dictate rules of this game. So, if TomB or Oveur will enter this topic, and say : "Bah, login traps = exploit. All exploiters will be banned" - then, it will became a fact. Its like screaming : "everyone who smoking Marlboro should be killed". Lots of people - lots of opinions. Live with it. ----------------------------------------------- Logged in a system, next to you =)
SILVER DRAG0N	Posted - 2006.03.27 13:51:00 - [53] Originally by: Evil Thug Originally by: Rod Blaine No Evil, it's not an opinion, it is fact. Logontraps are exploits. The punishments aren't enforced because CCP can't enforce them because they don't feel they can sufficiently prove the exploit. But please don't try and talk this right by relativation ok ? Hacking the client being an exploit is not an opinion. Hacking someon's TS being wrong is not an opinion, and logintraps being wrong is not an opinion either. Ore stealing being wrong, that's an opinion. If you can't see the difference, you should stop posting on these forums. I think you can tho, but just don't want to admit to you opinion that being a leetass killmailmachine is less important then game rules to you. I actually enjoyed reading your posts. Why ? Because you can back it up with arguments. But now - i`m unable to agree with you. Just because you haven`t got "ISD Dev Team" lable, under your nickname. There is only few persons, who able to dictate rules of this game. So, if TomB or Oveur will enter this topic, and say : "Bah, login traps = exploit. All exploiters will be banned" - then, it will became a fact. Its like screaming : "everyone who smoking Marlboro should be killed". Lots of people - lots of opinions. Live with it. Well i remember when it was announced that logintraps even tho they are an illegal exploit they were impossable to prove well ccp look at this guy he seems to be admiting doing it punish him as an example
Ifindi	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:15:00 - [54] Why not just implement some code where if you logout in space, when you log back in after X-time (allow some timeframe for ctds) you get logged in docked at the nearest station instead of back in space? (if no station in that system then nearest in next system, etc) Can RP-justify it by saying unmanned ships in space (logged out) are towed to stations by some mysterious npc towing company. That way whenever you log back in you're docked.
Kanuo Ashkeron	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Evil Thug I havent said, that this is great tactic, or something. But i think, that this tactic is acceptable. Why ? Because due to game mechanic you can avoid battle, if you dont want to. Remove traps ? Ok. Give alternate routes to FORCE your enemy to accept combat - remove local chat, so everyone will be able to use cloaking device, to prepare trap. Remove instas. Remove safespots. Undocked from station ? - Wellcome to the jungle. Most sad thing in EVE - that blob can be countered only by another blob. And all those changes - only provoking people to form blobs, and turn theyr brains off. Sad. Which game mechanic do you mean? But the important two words in your post were game mechanic. Log in/off does not belong to the game mechanics. It¦s only the door to the playing field. Login tactics are like adding some figures to a chess game sometime during play. When I log into the game, I would like to play as it is intended by some rules, called game mechanics in this case. Btw, that¦s the nature of games. We say we adhere to rules and compete while adhering to that rules. When competing in other ways we are fighting each other. Of course it¦s difficult to trap an enemy in EVE. I am with you, when you are talking about removing local and so on. BUT logging of, is not an acceptable way to do this. Kanuo
Karina Harington	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Ifindi Why not just implement some code where if you logout in space, when you log back in after X-time (allow some timeframe for ctds) you get logged in docked at the nearest station instead of back in space? (if no station in that system then nearest in next system, etc) Can RP-justify it by saying unmanned ships in space (logged out) are towed to stations by some mysterious npc towing company. That way whenever you log back in you're docked. At the very least, you'd need other considerations due to people logging off at POSes. Also, a lot of people have unreliable internet connections. If their connection dies for, say, an hour, I'm sure they'd be really annoyed to find themselves logging in at an NPC POS occupied by lots of enemies. In any case, I also disapprove of login traps and am saddened whenever I see them used. I'd hate for the game to degenerate into huge areas of empty space that suddenly fills at the sight of enemies.
c0rn1	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:51:00 - [57] Edited by: c0rn1 on 27/03/2006 14:52:39 As everyone might have seen in the topic: I didn't cry to ban login traps as an exploit. All I want to know in this thread is if it is now legal or not. We (KOS) can easily live with the loss of a freighter when it opens up a new strategical option to our PvPer, because like I said, we had the chance as well to use it but didnt do it because I and a couple others do not like to abuse exploits to gain an advantage on our side. Don't try to flame the topic (especially RA & friends) to just get it closed. All I want here is a verification if this is a legit strategy I can use. If so, fasten seatbelts. regards x x x x x x x x x x x x x x Life's a waste of time ...
Ante	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:54:00 - [58] Edited by: Ante on 27/03/2006 14:55:00 Well if this topic hasn't been brought up before... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=284146&page=3#86 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=284146&page=11#301 Originally by: j0sephine the official answer in this thread makes it clear the game developer considers this use as lame as lameness goes, but they're unable to implement mechanics which would curb it beyond the point it'd been already curbed, without penalizing people who do not make use of these tactics. j0 sums it up nicely. EDIT: Turned to links.
BillyBong2	Posted - 2006.03.27 14:59:00 - [59] Originally by: Karina Harington In any case, I also disapprove of login traps and am saddened whenever I see them used. I'd hate for the game to degenerate into huge areas of empty space that suddenly fills at the sight of enemies. Karina, Did you read what you posted, the bolded part? Also, did you read this thread where RAT is specifically saying that they have set-up login traps? Talked about an entire enemy force coming into battle zone and disappearing (logging off). By looking at the Alliance under your tag, you are apart of an alliance that does the above and defends doing it. Just curious if you read the thread and then what you wrote. _________________________ Siggy by Esturary
Nebuli	Posted - 2006.03.27 15:04:00 - [60] Logon traps are lame, and for people who lack skills to get kills any other way, simple as that realy, and pretty much the entire EVE poulace agrees. The fact that CCP cant come up with a sufficient way of preventing it doesnt make it open game for anyone to use imo. Evilthug you moan that its hard to get kills without using log in traps, this just makes my first point more valid, look at other alliances/corps killboards who dont use this lame tactic, they manage just fine without it, why cant you? CEO - Art of War

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