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PsychoTroop
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 08:27:00 -
[1] - Quote
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).
So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2506
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 08:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Exploited mechanics Sociopaths Player interaction Tears
Perfect thread 10/10. Oh god. |

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
191
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 08:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
The ONLY thing i would like to see is that attacking other Corpmembers in Highsec still call the Concord. |

Silvetica Dian
Manson Family Advent of Fate
649
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 11:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
PsychoTroop wrote: sociopaths .
Names his char Psycho. Plays as carebear. calls other people sociopath because he can't be bothered doing any security checks, or to monitor new members or to protect his members. Clearly his members are just there to provide tax revenue for the OP with zero given to them by him in return. i wonder who is the real sociopath in this story? Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |

Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
2690
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 12:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
People who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits face being banned from the game. If you have proof of exploit use, send a petition to CCP.
(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid. |

Ryann Padecain
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 14:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
I didn't think people from nullsec were this stupid, FW is in lowsec, you know? where actual fights happen  |

Swiftstrike1
Swiftstrike Incorporated
450
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you had to be in a fleet with the person who entered the plex 1st, how would war targets get in there to... you know... do war related stuff. Fleet Bookmarks New Gravimetric Sites Med Clones 2.0 |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
2271
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
YO BRO I SAW YOU WERE DOING A COMPLEX SO IM HERE TO HELP
IVE GOT YOUR BACK BRO |

Seranova Farreach
621
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ryann Padecain wrote:I didn't think people from nullsec were this stupid, FW is in lowsec, you know? where actual fights happen  nullbears only know bubbles and ratting and cap-blobs. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4760
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 18:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
As someone who sometimes AWOXs his own militia let me just say this...
- we FW vets know a spy when we see one. - NUBS NOT BE FIXIN' DER DAMN OVERVIEWS!!!! - I'm not exploiting anything. I'm just shooting. - I'm not a psychopath... I'm actually quite pleasant. It's just that people who are supposedly my "friends" like to shoot me for some reason... so I return the favor in excess.  Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 22:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid.
Here's what typically happens: - Plexer enters the plex, sits there for 10+ minutes. Maybe PvP happens, maybe it doesn't. - When there are a few minutes left on the clock AWOXer enters plex. Not to help cap it, but to get half the reward.
Now the Plexer has to chose between removing the AWOXer by force or only getting half the LP. |

Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2359
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 22:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid. Here's what typically happens: - Plexer enters the plex, sits there for 10+ minutes. Maybe PvP happens, maybe it doesn't. - When there are a few minutes left on the clock AWOXer enters plex. Not to help cap it, but to get half the reward. Now the Plexer has to chose between removing the AWOXer by force or only getting half the LP.
That isn't AWOXing.
AWOXing is when I join your corp and kill you, not when I come into your site and swipe your reward. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4761
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 22:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid. Here's what typically happens: - Plexer enters the plex, sits there for 10+ minutes. Maybe PvP happens, maybe it doesn't. - When there are a few minutes left on the clock AWOXer enters plex. Not to help cap it, but to get half the reward. Now the Plexer has to chose between removing the AWOXer by force or only getting half the LP. That isn't AWOXing. AWOXing is when I join your corp and kill you, not when I come into your site and swipe your reward. In a loose sense it is. You're technically allies (blue to each other) that are supposed to be working together.  Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.26 23:57:00 -
[14] - Quote
FW plex rewards ought to be based on time spent and distance to the button - nearer to button: more reward, longer in complex: more reward |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
2279
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 00:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid. Here's what typically happens: - Plexer enters the plex, sits there for 10+ minutes. Maybe PvP happens, maybe it doesn't. - When there are a few minutes left on the clock AWOXer enters plex. Not to help cap it, but to get half the reward. Now the Plexer has to chose between removing the AWOXer by force or only getting half the LP. that's not awoxing, that's helping. the second guy could not have known how long was left on the clock. and i can all but guarantee that when an enemy warps in, brave deserving-of-reward Benny Ohu will heroically defend the complex, the system and the State, while cowardly selfish greedy undeserving-of-reward Other Guy will warp out and cloak. |

Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative
1023
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 00:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Silvetica Dian wrote:PsychoTroop wrote: sociopaths . Names his char Psycho. Plays as carebear. calls other people sociopath because he can't be bothered doing any security checks, or to monitor new members or to protect his members. Clearly his members are just there to provide tax revenue for the OP with zero given to them by him in return. i wonder who is the real sociopath in this story? OP was talking about NPC FW corps, of which there are TONS of AWOXers. not much better if your in a aplyer corp in FW, other FW corps/NPC-corp players will still shoot at you. |

Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
256
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 01:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Abdiel Kavash wrote:(edit) I actually read the rest of your post. Are you really saying that you would attack someone in your own faction for literally being close to you? And you call that them awoxing you? Man, I didn't think even people in highsec were this stupid. Here's what typically happens: - Plexer enters the plex, sits there for 10+ minutes. Maybe PvP happens, maybe it doesn't. - When there are a few minutes left on the clock AWOXer enters plex. Not to help cap it, but to get half the reward. Now the Plexer has to chose between removing the AWOXer by force or only getting half the LP. that's not awoxing, that's helping. the second guy could not have known how long was left on the clock. and i can all but guarantee that when an enemy warps in, brave deserving-of-reward Benny Ohu will heroically defend the complex, the system and the State, while cowardly selfish greedy undeserving-of-reward Other Guy will warp out and cloak. It's one player harming someone who game mechanics say is an ally. That's close enough for me to call it AWOXing.
As for the second guy not knowing the time on the clock, that could happen. If he lands less than 10 seconds before it finishes and there is at least one non-militia member in system, if he lands any sooner he has plenty of time to warp back out. If there are only militia members in system, his d-scan will tell him the plex is occupied before he activates the gate.
All of the people I've seen warp into my plex have done so with well over a minute remaining. Locking them up and asking them to leave usually gets them to leave. The one time it didn't the guy had stabs fitted, but no warp disruptor or scram. Which tells me his intent was to run from any enemies that showed up. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2514
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 01:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Locking them up and asking them to leave usually gets them to leave. Sounds like the only AWOXer is you. Oh god. |

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
2282
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 02:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:All of the people I've seen warp into my plex have done so with well over a minute remaining. Locking them up and asking them to leave usually gets them to leave. The one time it didn't the guy had stabs fitted, but no warp disruptor or scram. Which tells me his intent was to run from any enemies that showed up. i am shocked and appalled that you would even consider threatening or murdering your compatriots
but yeah you're the awoxer here :P if you're shooting guys to keep them out of the plex you're taking, fine. you're doing it right. the OP's asking that the complex be locked which is ridiculous |

Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
325
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 07:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
The point of eve was blowing other people ships , now , sadly this was limited to deploy sentry drones. -=Reopening old corporations=- Do you have old and closed corporation and like to reopen it? Like this topic and keep it on the top by posting. |

PsychoTroop
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 08:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
The point of using fleet to validate a 2nd militia member's entry is to give some local accountability. AWOXers have mastered the range of exploits. If they have to be in your fleet to jump into your plex then they can be kicked out of your fleet - or better yet just blackballed on a master list. As it is now AWOXers still show as militia members, still mess up your faction when you respond to their griefing.
Far as the 'how does anyone get in if they have to be part of your fleet question': if they're a member of your militia they would have to be part of your fleet. Actual opponents could still enter. |

Hesod Adee
Kiwis In Space
257
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 09:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
I've got a couple of kills by noticing a friendly militia member fighting an enemy in a plex and warping in to help. Sometimes the friendly pilot would have soloed the fight, sometimes not. There is no way to tell before I go in, so I enter the plex to kill the war target/pirate. If both of us survive the fight against the mutual enemy, I leave.
However, if only fleet members can get in without permission from the friendly militia member inside the plex, then assisting them will not be possible. So that isn't a useful solution.
Riot Girl wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:Locking them up and asking them to leave usually gets them to leave. Sounds like the only AWOXer is you. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's not AWOXing, it's just low-sec PvP which is what you signed up for so quit crying about it. I signed up for PvP. I did not sign up for someone who claims to be my ally to contribute almost nothing towards finishing the plex and take half the reward. So I make it clear that they can either leave, or they can have PvP.
War Targets get the same choice. Though I assume that me showing up as a war target in local makes that clear enough for them. As for non-militia pilots, the only reasons they have for entering a FW plex is either looking for PvP or because they don't know about plexes. If it's the first, shooting them gives them what they want. If the second, shooting them should get them asking the right questions. |

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
366
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 10:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Exploited mechanics Sociopaths Player interaction Tears
Perfect thread 10/10.
more like a 9.
It do not lead off with I don't know if this has ever been thought of before but here it goes....or something like that. That is like the SOP lead off for stuff like this.
Thread confuses me...someone clear up for me,please.
FW for months has whined its too easy and warp stabbed cloaked frigates flown by 1 week noobs can do it. To me that then sounds like a pvp fit ship should be able to do as well. So why not just bring a pvp ship into the plex and if someone wants to go blue on blue....well then give back as good or if not better than what you are getting. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2519
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 10:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:I did not sign up for someone who claims to be my ally to contribute almost nothing towards finishing the plex and take half the reward. So I make it clear that they can either leave, or they can have PvP. I don't think they ever claimed to be your ally, but if they did, then you should be happy to share your reward with them. After all, you're only making them stronger, which in turn, makes your militia stronger. Of course, that's all garbage because, as I said, they never claimed to be your ally. The only reason they're in your militia is because of the character they made when they started playing. It's not like they have a choice and so there is no reason to pretend.
Oh god. |

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
970
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 10:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote: I don't think they ever claimed to be your ally, but if they did, then you should be happy to share your reward with them. After all, you're only making them stronger, which in turn, makes your militia stronger. Of course, that's all garbage because, as I said, they never claimed to be your ally. The only reason they're in your militia is because of the character they made when they started playing. It's not like they have a choice and so there is no reason to pretend.
Uh, wtf are you on and can I have some. You totally have a choice about what corp to be in to do FW. And they totally made the choice to be in the NPC FW corp. Not a personal corp in FW or one of the many that are involved on each side. |

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
2519
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 10:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Right. If they're not in an NPC corp, then why is this a problem? Oh god. |

Seranova Farreach
622
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 11:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
PsychoTroop wrote:AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).
So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.
if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though. _______________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg
|

PsychoTroop
State Protectorate Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 05:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:PsychoTroop wrote:AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).
So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out. if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though.
And since most AWOXers are cynical veterans they don't take faction dings. They irritate someone - preferably new - until that person attacks them. Or they surprise someone and act like they're going to attack so the other person counters and that other person takes the faction ding. Or they switch back and forth between orgs to wipe their slate.
The guys who AWOX are seriously messed up. True sociopaths. Messing with sided warfare and any presumption of honor just floats their boat and puts a spring in their screwed up step. Present mechanics encourage this. Whatever the mechanic is they've figured it out. They really have no life and griefing their own side seems like justice to them. By making local fleet mandatory for jumping into someone else's plex you at least make it real time and interpersonal. |

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
4772
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 06:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:PsychoTroop wrote:AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).
So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out. if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though. In corporations the standings are combined and averaged. In alliances, that combined standing is averaged with those of all the other corporations in it.
Generally, you have FW corps and alliances with almost perfect standings peppered with people who have very bad standings. As long as the average standings of the corporation/alliance stays above 0.05 it can stay in the militia.
And yes... even veterans take standings hits for killing their own militia members. So it's not something that many people will get into the habit of doing unless they don't care about staying in the militia.
As far as what the OP is talking about... I don't see it as big an issue as he does. It happens, but not THAT often. The idea he is proposing will do more harm than anything else as it will disallow friendly gangs/fleets from assisting each other at the drop of a hat (which is quite often). NOTE: FW corporations and alliances typically like their independence and often dislike working too closely with others... even if they are friendly. They will work together if they must... but when they can, they will operate on their own. And I like it this way because it makes things "colorful." Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |

Daandrah
Deep Structure. Li3 Federation
13
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 06:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:FW plex rewards ought to be based on time spent and distance to the button - nearer to button: more reward, longer in complex: more reward
+1 for this reply, great idea. |
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