is this the solution where warping to someone else's mission pocket becomes criminal?

is this the solution where warping to someone else's mission pocket becomes c¦¦r¦¦i¦¦m¦¦i¦¦n¦¦a¦¦l¦¦ suspect?

Go play wow if you want to sit in your own little instanced dungeon, that's not how eve work.

More "pirate" tears... beautiful.

Yeah, you presented a very good proposal and the thread was indeed an entertaining read. The so called PvP players all reaching for any excuse whatsoever failed miserably at trying to dismiss the proposal. It was definitely worth the time to read the dozen pages.

Good job on keeping your cool.

Piwat tears and fears are best.




DMC

Also before you embarres yourself.

Oh god please stop with the trivial 'sweet sweet tears' remarks... some people play eve because they like that the game is unpredictable, and punish you for being stupid and/or careless. You want to turn eve into just another main stream mmo with zero negative feedback, because the bad man blow up your space ship and you didn't like.

Clueless people like you are literally part of the disease the is destroying the game from the inside, you don't understand the game and have zero patience to to actually learn eve.

What you suggest is not improving the game, you are destroying a key element of eve. Missions are not supposed to be easy, it's not supposed to safe to undock, and it's not supposed to be hard or dangerous be cause some scripted space dragon i hiding further down the road.

Eve is hard and dangerous because everyone can and just might kill you if you give them the chance, you don't understand or appreciate aspect of them game, and you want it removed so you can sit in you little bubble, safe from the other players trying to kill you.

I see nothing wrong with being flagged as suspect when entering someone elses mission as it gives them more time to defend from thiefs, its only fair.

It also increases PvP opportunities but as we have seen with the Mobile Tractor Unit drone aggro situation (I know different mechanics) couldn't this lead to the missioner losing more ships as they could get tricked into PvP?

It is spelled "embarrass."

Hum, beeing the mussion runner that I am, I'm not affected and can't see a point on your proposal.

It's my own damn fault if i let someone steal my mission object.


Maybe it's because I've never went on cosmos, and can't imagine that you can't do anything agaist it (park an MWD BS and Bump the hell out of him?).

Man, try pulling your head out and read the proposal first before posting a reply next time. Your attempt at trying to blow this whole thing completely out of proportion and twist it into a totally different issue is nothing more than a fail troll.

I know you love every suggestion that makes hi-sec more safe, and everyone that don't agree with your brain dead carebear attitude is just trolling.

Being able to defend yourself by staying docked is god damn stupid, and if you can't see that you are the one who is clueless and trolling.

The problem with sites getting scanned down is really simple, DON'T DO +1B REWARDED COSMOS MISSIONS WITH COMBAT PROBES ON DSCAN!!!!!

There are lots of ways to avoid someone scanning you down, the problem is not that the game don't give you tools to avoid missions griefers, most people are just to damn lazy to use them, that the is the game play you are advocating.... so please just stfu about trolling.

I am sorry that you don't understand the proposal and how it opens up options to counter mission invasion that do not currently exist.

I hope that you re-read the thread.

You can convo me in game and I will explain it item by item if you need more specific help.

It is spelled out clearly for everyone in the original post, but it is a longish read.

Well, I do understand that you think that you own a mission-pocket - thus, you want the right to kick someone out if you don't want him there. I do understand your view, I just disagree - Imho, you don't own sites in space (you don't own the loot, rats and salvage either).

:)

TLDR

Game balance is off. Add a suspect flag for trespassing that is triggered when the act of mission item theft is initiated (when the illegal warp into the mission owner's site begins) not only after the item is looted.

There is no reason that a mission thief should have Concord protection after they invade another player's mission space and while they are waiting to loot the mission item.

OH. MY. GOD.

Truly, there are no tears like pirate/griefer/ganker tears.

What we have here is someone trying to earn a living (let's face it, no one does missions because they're INTERESTING). Someone else plans on interrupting their work and stealing the results. In the process of that theft, they (a) conspire, and (b) trespass into something that, were it not for the mission-runner interacting with an agent, would not otherwise exist.

Points (a) and (b) certainly amount to what, in the real world, would result in your detention and questioning by the police, to say nothing of being arrested, tried, and convicted.

What's been proposed here is a possible method of leveling the playing field, by making an uninvited intrusion into a mission pocket an act that would mark you as a viable target for the mission-runner.

And you guys are crying up a storm! Isn't greater opportunity for PVP what damned near every one of you guys are constantly asking for in these very same forums? Now, you're hiding behind CONCORD because, "Don't make MY fun harder or riskier, CCP, just those lazy, weak, wimpy hisec carebears!"

...

In the meantime, keep on crying, guys.

*Snip* Removed reply to a deleted post. ISD Ezwal.

The problem with sites getting scanned down is really simple, DON'T DO +1B REWARDED COSMOS MISSIONS WITH COMBAT PROBES ON DSCAN!!!!!

This is a failure of an argument. If I want your Wei-Todaki there is literally not a thing you can do to stop me from either taking it or destroying it.

Let me explain.

I know you love every suggestion that makes hi-sec more safe, and everyone that don't agree with your brain dead carebear attitude is just trolling.

Being able to defend yourself by staying docked is god damn stupid, and if you can't see that you are the one who is clueless and trolling.

The problem with sites getting scanned down is really simple, DON'T DO +1B REWARDED COSMOS MISSIONS WITH COMBAT PROBES ON DSCAN!!!!!

There are lots of ways to avoid someone scanning you down, the problem is not that the game don't give you tools to avoid missions griefers, most people are just to damn lazy to use them, that the is the game play you are advocating.... so please just stfu about trolling.

This is a failure of an argument. If I want your Wei-Todaki there is literally not a thing you can do to stop me from either taking it or destroying it.

Let me explain.

I warp to somewhere outside of your D-scan range (~15AU) and drop my probes. I then move said probes 20+ AU above the plane of the system to put them in a place where you simply cannot ever see them on D-scan. If the system happens to be small enough that I can't warp outside your d-scan range, you have about 5-6 seconds to notice my probes before they are gone. No one hits D-scan that often. I lived in wormholes for almost 2 years, I am the most paranoid pilot in Eve, to the point where I keep d-scan up and scanning even when in a system with no one in local. It's a habit at this point. Even I don't hit d-scan every 5 seconds. You will not see me drop my probes. I 100% guarantee it.

I then use my d-scan to narrow your position down to within a very small area. This is done by finding you with the 5 degrees setting and then getting a range. Do this twice from two different places and I know roughly where you are, to within half an AU or so (or more usually, just find you once with 15 degrees and get a range, that is almost always enough). I then place my probes there and hit scan. Instantly I have a warpable hit. By the time you see my probes scanning you down, it is too late, you cannot stop me from getting a warp in for your mission site.

As you shoot wrecks in your blithe and stupid way, their scout will know when you are in the second last pocket because you have been scanned down long ago, and they can either enter and watch cloaked, or just watch the wrecks pile up on d-scan, which the guy has already 5%'d and isolated your wrecks from everyone elses, and knows the encounter well enough to know where you are up to.

Gandalf, and thieves are never late, they arrive exactly when they need to arrive.

They'll turn up with it 5v1 and unless the rules are utterly ********, as soon as you shoot, the one you shoot can shoot back and the others will rep him, and they'll move to and kill the loot ship, or they'll just point you and kill you first.

You literally can't do every mission with a posse in there with you (because its horribly boring), and if you were tipped off enough to bring a posse in the first place, then you were also tipped off enough to bring a T3 and thus do all the tihings that would stop them getting into your mission space yourself.

afaik -this- mission does not have a tight timer, and its this mission they are focusing on (probably because it does take a long time and lets them track you down well before they need to enter).

Missioners really don't even have to hire anyone to defend their mission. I'm sure there are people who love the idea of being able to setup a cloaked ambush in hi-sec waiting for someone to come a long and pop them. They may or may not fleet up with the missioners as they could just easily sit at the warp-in cloaked until someone shows up then dog pile.

I think it's a neat idea. Ninja salvaging will be removed, mission invaders take risk, mission runners don't really have that much risk unless they attack the suspect unprepared, drones don't go after suspects unless the suspect shoots a deployable owned by the pilot.

It wasn't a good idea in features and ideas. It isn't a good idea here.

I'm at 0 risk as a mission runner if someone warps into my mission, unless it happens to be 12 catalysts. I think getting ganked or baited in a mission is total crap. Still, let it go.

Can we stop with the sensationalist thread titles? This is worse than watching t.v. - up next - could your cereal be killing you?

You need to stop trying to chove your EvE ideas and opinions down our collective throats.

Missioners really don't even have to hire anyone to defend their mission. I'm sure there are people who love the idea of being able to setup a cloaked ambush in hi-sec waiting for someone to come a long and pop them. They may or may not fleet up with the missioners as they could just easily sit at the warp-in cloaked until someone shows up then dog pile.

I think it's a neat idea. Ninja salvaging will be removed, mission invaders take risk, mission runners don't really have that much risk unless they attack the suspect unprepared, drones don't go after suspects unless the suspect shoots a deployable owned by the pilot.

The missioner always has the option to not attack and is protected by Concord just like now, you can't get much more zero risk than that.

This is not true; no one is protected.....the suicider is assured by concord that his ship will be blown up....thats something else than concord "protecting" the missioner.

All this idea would do is make mission sites in Hisec into PVP arenas.

So groups wanting to fight each other in hisec, but don't want to wardec or use the dueling system; will just scan down a mission site and warp to it. They all go suspect, so all will be good.

Estella has vested interest in making sure that this suggestion doesn't get implemented.

She knows that right now, the game mechanic is broken and she can invade a mission and steal high value mission items without any significant options for the missioner to counter.

If this idea is implemented, she and others like her cannot victimize missioners so easily.

And they know it.

You'll see a lot of their posts trying to scare you into staying in a position where they can continue to victimize you.

It's kind of funny how many gankers/griefers/"pirates" and thieves hang out in Missions & Complexes....

They must find it easy to bully and/or scare people in here.

Can you counter Estella's point?
So far I've been with you until she raised this.
I don't want my mission turning into a free-for-all for high-sec pvpers!

I have no vested interest what so ever. I am in faction warfare, so I can't even go to Caldari COSMOS. If I want PVP, I stay in lowsec. If I want isk, I farm FW plexes for LP. I can make more isk from that than any mission invasion would ever provide.

Hi I checked the thread I think you're on about but I didnt see any counter to Estellas point.

I don't want my mission space being swarmed wiht thiefs and mercs I just want to be able to mission in peace.

Thanks for that!

The way I would solve that - on the presumption that you have a virtue fitted alt that I don't know the name of, and will never see uncloaked.

(a) fly a t3 with eccm sub + eccms fitted.
(b) not field drones at all - in my case that would be a rail proteus and just keep the 25m3 bayed.
(c) do the encounter by shooting something, then shooting its wreck, so that references to the encounter location are not left in space.
(d) leave the encounter regularly for long periods, (or just cloak up and do other stuff for a while if aggro drops), so as to deny you an ongoing reference for you to d-scan yourself closer with. In the end you'd be left with little pieces of the puzzle stretched over multiple time zones.
(e) keep the d-scan spam up, which is something that I am capable of doing in these scenarios, especially because I'd not attempt to complete it all in 1 go so I might be d-scan spamming for 5 minutes at a time.

I completely recognise that there being a solution is just like there being a solution to miner ganking though - ie people will read this thread after they lose their object, and not before, so how to make your life hard being published, won't even dent your efficiency, but its there.

(of course if DMC is directing a lot of people there in a guide, he might be able to short circuit that a bit).

Have you read the thread then, Tauranon?

Because one of the limits placed on the missioner is a time constraint that forces them to complete within a set time or the mission fails. Gankers/griefers/"pirates" and mission thieves know this and could currently d-scan until you automatically fail the mission.

This makes the d-scan option less than 100% reliable and the missioner can currently be deprived of completing the mission entirely.

The proposal is to make anyone warping into a missioner's pocket a suspect so anyone can kill them.

Think of how many more legal options all missioners will have if it is implemented?

You would be able to have as many people as you want team up to defend the mission site with you?

Wouldn't that make it much easier on all missioners?

Post your concerns, they will be addressed.

But do yourself the favor of reading the thread.

As many have said, it is quite funny.

I have no vested interest what so ever. I am in faction warfare, so I can't even go to Caldari COSMOS. If I want PVP, I stay in lowsec. If I want isk, I farm FW plexes for LP. I can make more isk from that than any mission invasion would ever provide.

Well, I do understand that you think that you own a mission-pocket - thus, you want the right to kick someone out if you don't want him there. I do understand your view, I just disagree - Imho, you don't own sites in space (you don't own the loot, rats and salvage either).

:)

I have read the thread and am posting my concerns as a missioner.
The title of this thread says it will affect me.
I want to be sure that my mission wont become a pvp arena for people I dont want there.

If i spawned it i own it(and the penalty for non completion) thats why when you loot MY wrecks you get a suspect tag.

I don't understand your concern exactly, perhaps you can be more specific of what you are afraid of happening?

And please post in the features & ideas

It looks like you have 3 threads running with this theme - i will post in this one as Im a missioner and it effects me.

I am concerned about what Estella said about my mission becomng a pvp warzone between theifs and mercs / whatever.
I dont want either there.

Yeah sure

Believe what you will.

Personally i'm beginning to believe you are a pirate alt who just wants this implemented so you can ruin the mission experience in hisec; as your suggestion will effectively turn hisec mission sites into PVP arenas.

I am concerned about what Estella said about my mission becomng a pvp warzone between theifs and mercs / whatever.
I dont want either there.

+1 for the OP. I fully support and endorse this proposal. It is well thought out and concise.


Those posting in opposition are failing miserably trying to come up with reasons not to implement a suspect flag for Mission Invasion. Hell, even the term sounds aggressive :



As for ownership, the mission pocket actually belongs to the Agent who is offering it to the player. Once the player accepts the mission offer, that player is now held accountable for it. That, in all intents and purposes, makes the mission runner the owner regardless of the Sov listed in the top left corner of the screen. Usually the actual site itself doesn't spawn until the Mission Runner initiates warp.

There's only a couple of Cosmos Missions that actually spawn the site when accepted such as the 2nd mission of Cosmos Agent - Drone Mind. That mission spawned a site with a visible warp beacon on Overview which anyone could access. CCP has just recently programed that site to spawn multiple times in multiple systems all at the same time due to other players constantly completing the site causing Cosmos Mission Runners to either fail or pay exorbitant prices for the objective item. The same goes for a couple of other Cosmos Agent missions which have visible beacons in Overview.

Anyway back to topic, doesn't matter if it's a Ninja Salvager or Suicide Ganker who enters the site, it's still an invasion which is an aggressive act. Those who think Ninja Salvagers should be exempt or are trying to use that as a reason to dismiss the OP's proposal need to seriously do some research on the terms used :



A true Ninja Salvager would never be seen by the Mission Runner. As such a Suspect Flag wouldn't matter. Most of the so called 'Ninja Salvagers' in this game now are nothing more than Mission Invaders. They obviously aren't very Ninja like at all and have no problem taking loot to get flagged in order to provoke PvP action. So the Suspect Flag is again not a problem.

As for new players, the safety system is set to full (green) right from the start. They wouldn't be able to warp to the site since that would be a suspect action, thus there wouldn't be any accidents happening. All players have the option to change their safety settings from Full (green) to allow suspect acts (yellow) or to perform criminal acts (red). If they do so, ignorance of consequences for those actions can not be used as an excuse.


DMC

I hope that the real missioners are getting as much fun out of all these posts as I am.

lol.

small minds...

Yes, Dexter, yes, very small minds indeed....

Luckily missioners are pretty bright though.

Obviously not if your mission item got stolen.

Luckily missioners are pretty bright though.