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Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 14:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello dear EVE Community. We are a new EVE Bank that wants to start out with savings accounts for anybody that is interested. We thought posting on the forum would be a good way to start generating interest in our bank. We have just started a blog that will be used for future communication: http://fidesbank.blogspot.com
Who are we? We are three friends from Belgium that met in high school and have been running a trading/manufacturing corporation since oktober 2013. We had some EVE experience a few years ago (around 2010) with PVE and PVP but decided to start over in an industrialist corporation. The main reason for doing this was because a lot of our friends had other succesful industrialist corporations in EVE and we thought it would be fun to play together.
Why start a bank? After a few weeks in EVE Online when our trading and manufacturing started generating bigger profits and an expansion was in order, we started to realize that the only thing we needed to make more money was money. We talked to our friends in the other industrialist corporations and we realized that this was a problem for them as well. One of our friends even had an internal banking system in his corporation where miners would deposit funds in a savings account. This way he managed to gain an extra 5B ISK that could be used in the 30 running manufacturing lines while paying his members a weekly interest. And this gave us an idea.
After doing some research on banks in EVE Online we were convinced that this could be a really great service if properly executed. Even though every other bank in EVE Online failed or turned out to be a scam, we believe we could maintain this business model because we would use the money ourselves for a long time to expand our manufacturing and trading operations + we could loan this money to our friends in 6 other expanding industrialist corporations. Since we know them in real life we know for a fact that they will not scam us (because we could set their house on fire).
Our banking system right now is very simple. You can open up a savings account and you will receive 2% interest per week (every Sunday). Withdrawals can be made 7 days after your last deposit. Withdrawals will be processed as soon as possible with a maximum 24h delay. A withdrawal will cost 0,5% service tax.
Where will my money go? First of all we will use your money to expand our own trading and manufacturing operations. When we reach a ceiling for the money we can use we will start loaning it to 6 other corporations of whom we know the CEO and everybody with access to the wallet in real life (so there is no risk of them running away with our/your money).
The bank will always keep 25% of all deposits in cash to make sure we can provide a quick and flexible withdrawal service.
If you would require more information about our banking service, you can contact Mentz Ihnon, Rudy Verboven or Pol Pahineh ingame. We also have a public channel called FidesBank and our blog: http://fidesbank.blogspot.com. On our blog you can read the terms and conditions for our service (but most of it is already explained here).
We sincerely hope that the community will give us a chance. |

Kryptik Kai
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7513
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 15:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
So... the short version is you want an open ended loan with no collateral or 3rd party auditing? "Shiny.-á Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb |

flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
2005
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 15:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
My best advice i can give : Remove the OP and walk away while you still can 
Did you btw in your ''checking why previous eve banks fell down'' also check WHO walked off with the isk in those cases?It is not the ones below you and your friends we need to worry about .
Start a new thread and ask for a specified loan amount with a specified duration.That is your only and best bet , though there is a good chance that onlt having started this thread will kill the potential of getting that loan.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
148
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 15:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Free blogs don't make you look legit. See these previous attempts.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3553459 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3612683 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4138807 .
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flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
2005
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 15:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Those links have one thing in common ....
I post way too much on eve-o .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 16:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
So, if I can follow this correctly, you're paying 8.25% monthly (2%/w compounded) for the right to loan out 75% of the investment. That amounts to 11% monthly interest payments on the isk you're loaning out just to break even on the interest payments on deposits. Now obviously you'll be wanting to take a cut for your time and trouble so let's say you need 15% monthly interest on the isk you loan to break even after labour.
So, how can you get 15%/m interest on loans, well, the basic rate for MD collateralised loans is 2%/m so you're looking at uncollateralised loans only. After all, if they have collateral they're not going to want to use your service at 15% when they can use someone else at 2%. Uncollateralised loans come with a fairly high default rate because you have literally no way of compelling them to return the , let's assume 50%. This means that your breakeven interest rate on loans now has to be about 30% to cover the interest payments on deposits, assuming a higher interest rate doesn't change the default rate.
Could you please expand upon your business plan? |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 16:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:So, if I can follow this correctly, you're paying 8.25% monthly (2%/w compounded) for the right to loan out 75% of the investment. That amounts to 11% monthly interest payments on the isk you're loaning out just to break even on the interest payments on deposits. Now obviously you'll be wanting to take a cut for your time and trouble so let's say you need 15% monthly interest on the isk you loan to break even after labour.
So, how can you get 15%/m interest on loans, well, the basic rate for MD collateralised loans is 2%/m so you're looking at uncollateralised loans only. After all, if they have collateral they're not going to want to use your service at 15% when they can use someone else at 2%. Uncollateralised loans come with a fairly high default rate because you have literally no way of compelling them to return the isk, let's assume 50%. This means that your breakeven interest rate on loans now has to be about 30% to cover the interest payments on deposits, assuming a higher interest rate doesn't change the default rate.
Could you please expand upon your business plan?
Well since the money is used to manufacture and trade by ourselves in the first stages of the bank we can easily turn it into a 10% profit per week (just counting the cash flow, without anything left behind in stocks). Our friends will indeed have an uncollaterized debt to us, which can be compensated for by the fact that we know them very well in real life. Our main business plan is to try to attract people that have money that cannot be directly invested in their trade or manufacturing and thus is "frozen" in their wallet (since the interest we offer isn't enough of course compared to the money you could gain from these activities yourself). As for the actual loan interest that we receive from our friends, it will still be at least 10% per month with weekly payments not to freeze up the cash flow from our bank. This way we can make a slight profit in combination with the small service tax for withdrawals.
I hope that this sort of answers your question. We realize that starting a bank (a business based on trust) is very hard in the EVE universe where trust is hard to come by, but we hope through a decent and flexible withdrawal service people would consider over time. :) |

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
148
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 16:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mentz Ihnon wrote: Well since the money is used to manufacture and trade by ourselves in the first stages of the bank we can easily turn it into a 10% profit per week (just counting the cash flow, without anything left behind in stocks). Our friends will indeed have an uncollaterized debt to us, which can be compensated for by the fact that we know them very well in real life. Our main business plan is to try to attract people that have money that cannot be directly invested in their trade or manufacturing and thus is "frozen" in their wallet (since the interest we offer isn't enough of course compared to the money you could gain from these activities yourself). As for the actual loan interest that we receive from our friends, it will still be at least 10% per month with weekly payments not to freeze up the cash flow from our bank. This way we can make a slight profit in combination with the small service tax for withdrawals.
I hope that this sort of answers your question. We realize that starting a bank (a business based on trust) is very hard in the EVE universe where trust is hard to come by, but we hope through a decent and flexible withdrawal service people would consider over time. :)
So you take a 1b loan out at 2% per week compounded, you'll owe 82.5m on that after a month, then loan out 750m uncollateralized at 10% for a month and will make 75m profit assuming your investees never default, while keeping 250m on hand to pay out investors. Total profit -7.5m. .
|

Ria Nieyli
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mentz Ihnon wrote:X ATM092 wrote:So, if I can follow this correctly, you're paying 8.25% monthly (2%/w compounded) for the right to loan out 75% of the investment. That amounts to 11% monthly interest payments on the isk you're loaning out just to break even on the interest payments on deposits. Now obviously you'll be wanting to take a cut for your time and trouble so let's say you need 15% monthly interest on the isk you loan to break even after labour.
So, how can you get 15%/m interest on loans, well, the basic rate for MD collateralised loans is 2%/m so you're looking at uncollateralised loans only. After all, if they have collateral they're not going to want to use your service at 15% when they can use someone else at 2%. Uncollateralised loans come with a fairly high default rate because you have literally no way of compelling them to return the isk, let's assume 50%. This means that your breakeven interest rate on loans now has to be about 30% to cover the interest payments on deposits, assuming a higher interest rate doesn't change the default rate.
Could you please expand upon your business plan? Well since the money is used to manufacture and trade by ourselves in the first stages of the bank we can easily turn it into a 10% profit per week (just counting the cash flow, without anything left behind in stocks). Our friends will indeed have an uncollaterized debt to us, which can be compensated for by the fact that we know them very well in real life. Our main business plan is to try to attract people that have money that cannot be directly invested in their trade or manufacturing and thus is "frozen" in their wallet (since the interest we offer isn't enough of course compared to the money you could gain from these activities yourself). As for the actual loan interest that we receive from our friends, it will still be at least 10% per month with weekly payments not to freeze up the cash flow from our bank. This way we can make a slight profit in combination with the small service tax for withdrawals. I hope that this sort of answers your question. We realize that starting a bank (a business based on trust) is very hard in the EVE universe where trust is hard to come by, but we hope through a decent and flexible withdrawal service people would consider over time. :)
And what would the "small" service tax for withdrawals be? Give me some examples for 100mil, 1bil, 10bil. |

Hektor Aldent
Kion Imperium
0
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Posted - 2014.01.27 17:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Cool. |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
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Posted - 2014.01.27 17:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
The point of the 25% that was kept in the wallet also included stock that could be sold fast and we will of course be covered with our own capital. So we could basically reloan the full amount assuming we can cover the 25% withdrawal mark. As for the fact that you mention that our friends will never default a payment: we are quite sure of this since the loan is payed back in small weekly amounts so after every week our cash flow will improve (and as I said before we know them very well in real life). I realize know that I should have explained this better in my original post but I thought it would be clear what the idea was in terms of keeping a share of the money compared to the amount we could actually loan out so it will not result in losses.
For Ria: the service tax is 0,5% |

Ria Nieyli
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Right. Perhaps I should learn to read the op properly, but in my defence I haven't slept in 48h. At any rate, tacking a service tax on what is essentially an uncollateralised loan is a huge turn off. |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Right. Perhaps I should learn to read the op properly, but in my defence I haven't slept in 48h. At any rate, tacking a service tax on what is essentially an uncollateralised loan is a huge turn off.
Thank you for the feedback. I'll take it up with my 2 partners to see how things would turn out without a service tax. |

Jace Sarice
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Good luck to you. It would be nice if a respected bank actually took off in Eve. Trust your veins. |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jace Sarice wrote:Good luck to you. It would be nice if a respected bank actually took off in Eve.
Thank you very much. It will be a long way to go because of the bad history but we're confident that trust will grow over time. |

X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 17:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sorry, I'm still confused. If you're only making loans to one specific operation which is run by people you know IRL then in what sense is this a bank? You're suggesting we make uncollateralised loans to you so you can in turn make uncollateralised loans to them, wouldn't it be simpler if they just presented their business model here and asked for loans to expand their operations? That way we can see what we're buying into without having to trust a 3rd party (you) with all the isk uncollateralised. This is a bond offering. |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 18:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:Sorry, I'm still confused. If you're only making loans to one specific operation which is run by people you know IRL then in what sense is this a bank? You're suggesting we make uncollateralised loans to you so you can in turn make uncollateralised loans to them, wouldn't it be simpler if they just presented their business model here and asked for loans to expand their operations? That way we can see what we're buying into without having to trust a 3rd party (you) with all the isk uncollateralised. This is a bond offering. We're basically trying to collect money for 7 corporations (ourselves included) from many different people instead of just one big investor and afterwards distributing this where it can be used productively. But I certainly see your point. We were just hoping that more people would put up small amounts instead of a big investor with a ton of collateral (and these are all industrialists that only have mineral/salvage stocks and low value blueprints that are used in the process so there is nothing that can be put up for the long term as colleteral). As for the simplicity: it's easier for them that we just take care of the business so that they don't have to worry about looking for investors every time they needed money. |

X ATM092
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
255
|
Posted - 2014.01.27 18:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think it's far more likely you'll get investors if you can show people what they're buying into rather than having them give money to a "bank" that multiplies it using a mechanism that is kept out of sight. |

Mentz Ihnon
Fides Bank
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 10:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
X ATM092 wrote:I think it's far more likely you'll get investors if you can show people what they're buying into rather than having them give money to a "bank" that multiplies it using a mechanism that is kept out of sight. Thank you for the advice and the constructive criticism. But operating a bank for us is far more than just profits and investments. It's also a way of how we would like to play our game. We would really like to try and build up a trusted service like this. |

RAW23
681
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 10:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mentz Ihnon wrote:X ATM092 wrote:I think it's far more likely you'll get investors if you can show people what they're buying into rather than having them give money to a "bank" that multiplies it using a mechanism that is kept out of sight. Thank you for the advice and the constructive criticism. But operating a bank for us is far more than just profits and investments. It's also a way of how we would like to play our game. We would really like to try and build up a trusted service like this.
The fact that you want to put role-playing a bank ahead of optimising your business and ahead of providing the best possible service to your investors says pretty much all there is to say about your plan. Like many of the banks in eve's past you will sacrifice good business practices to ego and any poor sap stupid enough to invest in a business that touts its desire to be inefficient deserves everything they will inevitably get. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |

Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
35
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 11:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
The biggest issues that all past EVE banks have faced are the security of the funds and the safe management of those funds to prevent loss. There does not yet exist a mechanism in game to properly implement a risk free structure. Trust and reputation have been relied on before and many many people got burned.
Your ONLY solution to this huge obstacle, in your attempt to start a bank, is to tell us that you are all mates so you wont scam anyone. Which is either horseshit or very shortsighted.
I get your reasoning, even though I don't think you can make it work on a practical level. But this aint gonna fly. If you want liquidity, ask for a loan like everyone else, it will save you a lot of hassle and has a better chance of getting the funds that you need.
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virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
64
|
Posted - 2014.01.28 18:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
screams ponzi to me sorry One of the previous successful ponzi scammers who took a ton and did a massive write up afterwards listed the main elements that every ponzi needs and that act as flags off the top of my head it went something like this:
an interest rate too good to be true to lure in investors a website to shepherd the investors to so that communication can be controlled easily similarly minimise communication on the official forums because it's very hard to control barriers to withdrawal and encouragement not to withdraw a very small team or single person running the bank a vague business plan on how the profit will be made
I'm afraid your offer to me ticks all the wrong flags.
I'll see if I can find the original story to link.
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Setsune Rin
Collapsed Out Shadow Cartel
150
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 09:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
that was james 315 wasn't it?
shouldn't be hard to find, he's boasted it all over
edit: found it
http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/ |

virm pasuul
Mine 'N' Refine Yulai Federation
65
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 14:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thanks for finding the link for me I couldn't, kept getting to the Phaser Inc ponzi which is all empty links now. |

Hektor Aldent
Peoples Bank Of New Eden
1
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 07:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
So far so good with my small investment in this bank. They've paid up for the last two weeks. Answered all my questions.
Bump. |

I Was There
The Little Urban Achievers Foundation
128
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 10:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Hey, I also have a bank. All my employees are trustworthy, because I know them in real life, and because I kidnapped their families. Send me all your isk, because I'll make them grow. I'll your money in some corps I know that ALWAYS need more money, and always pay their interests. Also, Obama officially approves of my bank, and so does Putin. |

Tronjay the'3rd
IGNOTUS AGENDA Cult of War
53
|
Posted - 2014.02.12 12:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mentz Ihnon wrote:Jace Sarice wrote:Good luck to you. It would be nice if a respected bank actually took off in Eve. Thank you very much. It will be a long way to go because of the bad history but we're confident that trust will grow over time.
Even trustworthy people can get untrustworthy if it relates to a shitload of isk. Proved over and over again with EVE banks.
sà¦FÇàn+îF¬¡TüôS¦ƒpÇéµòàFâ+FÇîtñ¦S¦ïS+ìFâ+n+îtö¿FÇîtñ¦S¦ïS+ìtö¿n+îF+æFÇîtñ¦S¦ïTüán+îTüáFÇîtñ¦S¦ïF+æ
Sun Tzu-á-¬ |

Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Inter Vivos Trust Service
29
|
Posted - 2014.02.15 00:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
I Was There wrote:Hey, I also have a bank. All my employees are trustworthy, because I know them in real life, and because I kidnapped their families. Send me all your isk, because I'll make them grow. I'll your money in some corps I know that ALWAYS need more money, and always pay their interests. Also, Obama officially approves of my bank, and so does Putin.
Will you submit to an audit to prove that you actually have their families? I've been burned before on people claiming this only to find out that they were scammers who only had pets or distant relatives. "I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."-á- Book of Reclaiming 22:13 |

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
|
Posted - 2014.02.19 13:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Was ist ein Einbruch in eine Bank gegen die Gr++ndung einer Bank? Bertold Brecht -Die Dreigroschenoper
Google translates it: What is an intrusion into a bank compared with founding a bank?
I like the irony in the "Fides" Bank name  |

Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
6299
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 21:12:00 -
[30] - Quote
One time bump to fix forum. |
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