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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.03.30 13:43:00 -
[31]
 Quote:
This level of close-range threat and ship size forces the primary to keep weaponry on the Prophecy, allowing the medium to long range gangmates to attack out of harms way.
This is where your setup falls down. People with correct tactics wwill simply switch away from a tanked ship, tackler or not. Also, a single 20km disruptor bares very little threat nowadays.
Let me say, though, your posts do give me a lot of enjoyment to read because of your (generally) thoroughly flawed design process and the fact that your decisions are ill informed, combined with the dramatic roleplaying style flair involved.
This is not a flame, I just feel that people giving out bad information need to be told as much so that the less experienced among us don't waste their time/get ganked/die otherwise. Of course, this is merely my opinion.
Testy's Eve Blog!
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Elegant
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Posted - 2006.03.30 14:47:00 -
[32]
I gotta agree with all the people expressing doubt or dissappointment over this one. I defended your bleeder setup because it actually fit a misunderstood and unique role. This "Towershield" setup is pretty much common dross.
Delivered with flair though as Testy said.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.03.30 16:00:00 -
[33]
For those who have found the setup common, well done. You've accomplished nothing by contributing to this thread. You continue to forget that the ideas, tactics, and ship designs you have in your head may be completely new to a large portion of other players. Thus my ship setups are posted for general consumption and not to impress anyone. Those who can learn from it will, and those who already know it can assist in improving can help.
Anything else is simply a waste of time as you are neither helping to spread your ideas to those unaware nor helping to improve already existing ideas.
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Tulthix
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Posted - 2006.03.30 16:01:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Tulthix on 30/03/2006 16:02:29
I have to say thank you; I appreciate threads like this. I often can't afford/don't have the skills to run a full set of t2 gear, so threads like this help immensely.
As far as tactics (to the other posters above), I'm no expert but it seems like to me the artillery support ships can just warp out if they get beat on too much, then back in as needed while the big proph(s) tackler is keeping the target from going anywhere.
Now for my contribution to the thread:
I was curious about the performance of EMP ammo versus Phased plasma on the shields of a target.
EMP med:
10 emp
8 explosive
4 kinetic
0 thermal
50% range mod
Phased Plasma med:
0 emp
0 explosive
4 kinetic
16 thermal
62.5% range mod
Now consider the damage per shot on some resist setups:
typical unhardened shields (0/60/40/20):
emp = 15.6 damage (2.63% more than phased plasma)
phased plasma = 15.2 damage
Here, I'd say they are comparable. One might argue that the extra range may make up the 2.63% damage gap.
single hardened shields (50/60/40/20):
emp = 10.6 damage
phased plasma = 15.2 damage (43.4% more than emp)
Here the phased plasma is well ahead.
caracal 1 invuln 1 (25/70/55/40):
emp = 11.7 damage (2.63% more than phased plasma)
phased plasma = 11.4 damage
The same as unhardened.
caracal with 1 em hardener and 2 invuln 1s (66.45/76.52/64.78/53.04)
emp = 6.64 damage
phased plasma = 8.92 damage (34.3% more than emp)
Here, again the phased plasma is ahead.
CONCLUSION:
On the balance situation of the scenarios above, the phased plasma is either comparable to emp versus shields, or ahead. Thus, phased plasma is better general purpose anti shield ammo.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.03.30 16:06:00 -
[35]
Quote:
On the balance situation of the scenarios above, the phased plasma is either comparable to emp versus shields, or ahead. Thus, phased plasma is better general purpose anti shield ammo.
Nicely run on the math. Since I'm not a heavy minmatar pilot I snapped right into the EMP ammo because where I fight it is primarily armor tankers, thus there is generlaly no shield hardening involved. However the minor difference in damage/range and the additional versatility phased has when there is shield hardening does seem to the teh winnar. I'll certainly update the origonal post and bleeder post with the change in plan.
As a side note, I'm glad you find it enjoyable.  Far too many people assume that information they contain in their head from years of experience is common knowledge to the rest of the community. With over 100,000 EVE accounts there is bound to be a good group of people who still have not yet thought of that idea. Post the idea, the tactic, the ship loadout, however obvious it is so that you can still inform those who are unaware and gain insight to improvements from others who have already tried it.
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Funboy
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Posted - 2006.03.30 16:49:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Funboy on 30/03/2006 16:50:47
Well I don't think it really merited it's own 'special press release corner' tbh.
I disagree with the philosophy.
If the fight is this ship and a handful of others, your theory of 'attention' may work, but it's then relegated to pointless because your sure of victory and therefore shold be fitting for more damage.
Your theory relies on the target attempting to get away.
If your target has a chance and isn't trying to run, it wont shoot the prophecy because quite frankly with 5 t1 220 autos without bonuses you're doing toss all damage.
What i'm getting at is use an interceptor for tackling in groups, or at least a cruiser/bc sized vessel with more mids.
Also 1 T1 disruptor? you're gonna lose nearly all your targets unless u get lucky.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2006.03.30 16:58:00 -
[37]
Quote:
If your target has a chance and isn't trying to run, it wont shoot the prophecy because quite frankly with 5 t1 220 autos without bonuses you're doing toss all damage.
If it refocuses on the artillary-design ships that are a good 30-40k away (depending upon victim loadout, if I see it is fitting arts I'll call for close-range support) then they can simply be aligned for warp and leave the moment primary switches.
We've tested it out, this tactic, and it works wonderfully. Our latest engagement was against a fully t2 fitted megathron from a two year pilot. It was incredibly close but in the end the tactic worked. The towershield prophecy, what I flew, was doing ****poor damage but the fact that I was keeping him in place (20k scram + bumping ftw) and tanking his damaged saved our group. The mid-range support came in and it turned into a continual battle of tactical relocations and commands. It was a brilliant fight and an excellent display of combat from both sides (especially since he was outnumbered 1/5, despite our largest ship being a BC) but in the end the moment he switched primary targets and attempted to knock out a farther artillary-ship we had, they would warp out, warp back in and he mega would have to choose:
"Do I keep firing at ships I can't reach yet and never kill one, or focus back on the one closest ship that is keeping me from doing -anything-?"
Psychological warfare and knowing what your victim is going to think is what this design is based off of. It is simplistic, yes. It is certainly not new to some veteran players in EVE. But it's use as an "aggro holder" is viable to the point of my corpmates placing their ship's life on it.
Granted it does have it's weaknesses, like any ship, but we can focus on that when the forums call for it.
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.03.30 23:24:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Zysco on 30/03/2006 23:24:14
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Let me say, though, your posts do give me a lot of enjoyment to read because of your (generally) thoroughly flawed design process and the fact that your decisions are ill informed, combined with the dramatic roleplaying style flair involved.
This is not a flame, I just feel that people giving out bad information need to be told as much so that the less experienced among us don't waste their time/get ganked/die otherwise. Of course, this is merely my opinion.
signed 100%
callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back |
Ming Xia
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Posted - 2006.03.30 23:49:00 -
[39]
It's not like TSDS (Except for the TSBS guys) have any good setups anyway. They just kill using overwhelming numbers. They could fit bananas in the hi slots for all anyone cares. If they die, oh well, couple million ISK down the drain. The insurance on their ships cost more than their setups.
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Deathwind2097
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Posted - 2006.03.31 00:03:00 -
[40]
Come fight us Ming. New Dawn Rising, down in providence around kbp7-g. until you actually fight all teh TSDS corps dont blurt out incorrect stuff you ignorant fool.
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pWnZA11
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Posted - 2006.03.31 00:11:00 -
[41]
Edited by: pWnZA11 on 31/03/2006 00:12:16
This setup sucks. During my 1v1 with a 7 month old PVP Ferox pilot using heavies my armor almost got down to 75%. During a 2v1 vs a cara and Moa got to 50%. This is the worst setup Ive seen ever on EVE-O. Pls disregard it and leave this thread.
P.S. I started using a similar setup before this post but was based on malkas Puni. Also char using it is 20 days old so I only have skills for dual 800 plates and 150 ACs. Still gets it done =) Oh and just relised this was a Proph but I did it on a Maller. Same basic thinking.
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The Cold
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Posted - 2006.03.31 00:16:00 -
[42]
Originally by: pWnZA11
Edited by: pWnZA11 on 31/03/2006 00:12:16
This setup sucks. During my 1v1 with a 7 month old PVP Ferox pilot using heavies my armor almost got down to 75%. During a 2v1 vs a cara and Moa got to 50%. This is the worst setup Ive seen ever on EVE-O. Pls disregard it and leave this thread.
P.S. I started using a similar setup before this post but was based on malkas Puni. Also char using it is 20 days old so I only have skills for dual 800 plates and 150 ACs. Still gets it done =) Oh and just relised this was a Proph but I did it on a Maller. Same basic thinking.
It's a joke thread, another one is up, geddon setup. Mods should close such threads before anybody replies to them to avoid confusion. It's not our problem that some1 lost a deimos to a faulty mwd 
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Zysco
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Posted - 2006.03.31 01:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: The Cold
Originally by: pWnZA11
Edited by: pWnZA11 on 31/03/2006 00:12:16
This setup sucks. During my 1v1 with a 7 month old PVP Ferox pilot using heavies my armor almost got down to 75%. During a 2v1 vs a cara and Moa got to 50%. This is the worst setup Ive seen ever on EVE-O. Pls disregard it and leave this thread.
P.S. I started using a similar setup before this post but was based on malkas Puni. Also char using it is 20 days old so I only have skills for dual 800 plates and 150 ACs. Still gets it done =) Oh and just relised this was a Proph but I did it on a Maller. Same basic thinking.
It's a joke thread, another one is up, geddon setup. Mods should close such threads before anybody replies to them to avoid confusion. It's not our problem that some1 lost a deimos to a faulty mwd
Its not a joke thread, alty.
callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.03.31 02:11:00 -
[44]
One medium?
You dumb or something?
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Friends Forever |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.03.31 02:12:00 -
[45]
Ever have 50 BS's focus fire on you?
I have, it aint fun.
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Friends Forever |
Randay
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Posted - 2006.03.31 03:20:00 -
[46]
projectile on prophecy = quit eve.
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"Det hSr kan betyda krig!" |
Ming Xia
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Posted - 2006.03.31 04:49:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Deathwind2097
Come fight us Ming. New Dawn Rising, down in providence around kbp7-g. until you actually fight all teh TSDS corps dont blurt out incorrect stuff you ignorant fool.
LoL... geez such hostility.
I have fought you. Not New Dawn per say, because they never came to our space in any sort of numbers. But yes, Ive fought TSDS and killed and been killed by TSDS.
I particularly like the 220 and 425 Mallers that Jake Anthony and Carnal Pleasure use, but whatever...
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Phelan Lore
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/03/2006 07:10:31
Quote:
Did I get it? Or did I read into it too much?
You two seriously........ smoke good stuff. I can't beleive all the crap you type just to talk about a setup. 
^^ what he said...
Also I think the rubber ducky set up is more practical in real PvP settings...
________________
~Phelan Lore
Your isk has become my isk, by way of my actions... |
Aeaus
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Posted - 2006.03.31 06:10:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Phelan Lore
Originally by: KilROCK
Edited by: KilROCK on 30/03/2006 07:10:31
Quote:
Did I get it? Or did I read into it too much?
You two seriously........ smoke good stuff. I can't beleive all the crap you type just to talk about a setup.
^^ what he said...
Also I think the rubber ducky set up is more practical in real PvP settings...
Pfft, personally I would love to see the prophecy reanimate from a gutted turkey and go around pecking other ships :D
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.31 07:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Malka Badi'a
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 30/03/2006 01:47:53
Quote:
Also, why is everything in that setup T1?
Because I fit a ship mathamatically to be viable in t1, that way those without amazing skills know that the ship is still capable of doing it's job. Those that can use t2 (yes, I can) modules are more than willing to refit because that will only improve upon the initial design and push it even farther.
That's how I work. Take a ship to it's basic level of design, make it work, and then let others improve upon the base design with other ideas and higher modules.
As for the skills, I thought the hardeners received a bonus as well, or is that just for when they are offline? If that's the case I might rerun my math on the energized+new skills.
I must say, I am quite glad you're still posting great setups :)
btw, sorry I've been so busy lately >.<
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Randay
projectile on prophecy = quit eve.
Please oh please dont put AC's on a propechy 
Eve mail me ingame if you want a setup that eats hac's for breakfast, and possible also all other bc's(though not t2 bc's)
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:05:00 -
[52]
Originally by: The Cold
Originally by: pWnZA11
Edited by: pWnZA11 on 31/03/2006 00:12:16
This setup sucks. During my 1v1 with a 7 month old PVP Ferox pilot using heavies my armor almost got down to 75%. During a 2v1 vs a cara and Moa got to 50%. This is the worst setup Ive seen ever on EVE-O. Pls disregard it and leave this thread.
P.S. I started using a similar setup before this post but was based on malkas Puni. Also char using it is 20 days old so I only have skills for dual 800 plates and 150 ACs. Still gets it done =) Oh and just relised this was a Proph but I did it on a Maller. Same basic thinking.
It's a joke thread, another one is up, geddon setup. Mods should close such threads before anybody replies to them to avoid confusion. It's not our problem that some1 lost a deimos to a faulty mwd
Nope.. This one is for real, the other thread though is not.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:36:00 -
[53]
High's
2-3 Named NOS
4-5 Medium Pulse Laser II /conflag
Mid's
1 10mn AB
1 7.5k Scram
1 Webber
Low's
2 Medium Rep II
3 Hardeners
1 CPR
Same principle.. up close fighting... urr but better  Id like to call it Prophecy - SquirrilHunter design Experimental 
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.03.31 10:38:00 -
[54]
Edited by: LWMaverick on 31/03/2006 10:37:56
I can believe that youre actually using 220mm AC's and only an afterburner.. The propechy is a slow mofo already, and would never get in range, for you to hit with the guns, unless he's web'd to hell, and then its probably not a fight anyway, but more like a gank.
Youre talking about drawing fire, and make the enemy concentrate on you, istead of youre friends, well, a 1600mm plate is not a must for that, and youre tank wont run forever anyway, so why not fit a full support ship that can take a serious beating, and at the same time do some damage(im not talking dps) by nossing youre enemy to hell instead?
This setup is proven to kick ass, tank hac's, and even zealot + eagle at optimal range for quiet some time:
3 T2 Heavy pulses
4 T2 Medium nosfs
10mn Afterburner(t2/named)
20k scrambler
90% web
2 T2 Medium reps
3 T2 Energized adaptive nano's (with good compensation skills)
T2 RCU
My resists are 85/70/71/75
This setup has a few disadvangtages, it needs to be within nosfs range to be able to keep the reps running, it has a low damage output, and as always, the ships is damn slow.
And if you wanna go totally nuts, and you dont care about getting a final blow on the kill mails, go with 7 t2 Nosfs instead, or 6 T2 nosfs, and change the web for a Medium cap booster, so youre able to tank for several minuts without the help of the nosfs.
Change the stuff for t1 and the energized adaptives for hardners if youre a cheap-ass or if you are lacking in skills/isk/whatever
And if youre completly nuts, go with 5-6 Nosfs t1/named(because of lower pg use) mwd, med cap booster(800 charges) and tank (like the setup above), and go have fun!
EDIT: Typo
/Mav
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:01:00 -
[55]
Oo maverick I quite like that, curiosity though as the dps from 3 Heavy Pulse II isn't much anyway could you replace the Heavies with Quad Lights ? May give u enough extra Pg to lose the RCU and fit something else (I know u didn't want a plate... but might not be so bad)
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-= |
LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Oo maverick I quite like that, curiosity though as the dps from 3 Heavy Pulse II isn't much anyway could you replace the Heavies with Quad Lights ? May give u enough extra Pg to lose the RCU and fit something else (I know u didn't want a plate... but might not be so bad)
Alliaanna
it dosent really matter, change it with whatever you like, it wasnt really the setup that was important, it was more the idea...
There is endless possibilties with this setup, and it can operate in many different roles, it can be really cheap, fun and effective to fly..
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Frools
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:11:00 -
[57]
drop to focused pulse IIs and it fits without an rcu
lose about 20dps according to quickfit
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migwar
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Posted - 2006.03.31 11:11:00 -
[58]
If you ignore the verbosity of the post,
Basically its the same philosophy behing a 1600mm plate and small blasterax, tank first then whatever fits in the highs.
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OrangeAfroMan
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Posted - 2006.03.31 21:40:00 -
[59]
Originally by: LWMaverick
Originally by: Randay
projectile on prophecy = quit eve.
Please oh please dont put AC's on a propechy
Eve mail me ingame if you want a setup that eats hac's for breakfast, and possible also all other bc's(though not t2 bc's)
Yeah dont waste all those sweet laser damage bonuses!
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Elegant
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Posted - 2006.03.31 22:16:00 -
[60]
Originally by: OrangeAfroMan
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
High's
2-3 Named NOS
4-5 Medium Pulse Laser II /conflag
Mid's
1 10mn AB
1 7.5k Scram
1 Webber
Low's
2 Medium Rep II
3 Hardeners
1 CPR
Same principle.. up close fighting... urr but better Id like to call it Prophecy - SquirrilHunter design Experimental
Alliaanna
Hm... all i have to say is suck me.
No need to get personal... People have every right to criticize the setup just as people have every right to defend it. I'm fairly sure Malka can handle a little mockery, so you don't need to be so defensive.
That out of the I suggest to Malka that a setup with more nos, similar to what Maverick posted would work much better at the role you propose.
a) It tanks better
b) Its damage is poorer than the already poor damage of your initial setup, but it's better at breaking tanks with the extra nos.
c) For the above reason it holds attention better.
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