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Anyone else sick of the amount of Nos Dominix's?

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DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:31:00 - [31] Its a no-brainer setup that works in pretty much any close range situation where you aren't jammed. Close range being anything under 20k, which is where most fights happen. The ship itself doesn't have the grid to support a good rack of turrets, and has pitiful cap which makes it worthless at tanking without Nos, injector (which also eats grid) or both. In the end theres nothing wrong with using that setup, its the Nosferatu that are blatantly overpowered. Giving them signature resolution would fix that right up. I also think medium/heavy drone signature resolutions aren't as bad as they should be. ;/ Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Seramis	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Jim'ard Stone Originally by: Asnar solution it aint a solution. Just give you a chance of escaping like wcs. which id prefer It is a solution. Domi without lock ... Nosferatu == useless, EW Modules == useless, Tank without Nosferatus == easy to break because cap will die fast One single module, and u r freed from all of your worries.
Kinsy	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:39:00 - [33] I fail to see the problem...They can still be jammed, and you can just plain outgun em, I've popped a few in a geddon with 3-4 NOS before they were able to drain me dry. And to all those who think Domi cant do damage, go watch some jamesw vids and check his setup. 6 Dual 250's Shield stuff, Cap Booster, tackle 5 damage mods and 2 wcs or 7 pre-nerf. Nowadays you can swop the damagemods for PDU's and switch to 350's if you want. Couple that with t2 drones and you've got one of the highest dps ships in the game.
Seramis	Posted - 2006.03.30 14:49:00 - [34] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Its a no-brainer setup that works in pretty much any close range situation where you aren't jammed. Close range being anything under 20k, which is where most fights happen. The ship itself doesn't have the grid to support a good rack of turrets, and has pitiful cap which makes it worthless at tanking without Nos, injector (which also eats grid) or both. In the end theres nothing wrong with using that setup, its the Nosferatu that are blatantly overpowered. Giving them signature resolution would fix that right up. I also think medium/heavy drone signature resolutions aren't as bad as they should be. ;/ Don't give Nosferatu signature resolution. They are no guns! A better idea would be to give them a percentage value (e.g. 5% of total cap of enemy ship drained per cycle for heavy Nos).
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:00:00 - [35] Here is a list of counters for the Nos dominix: ECM + sensor boosters for a faster lock time then them; Sensor Dampeners + sensor boosters; Fit some nos; Sniping; Bring more than one person; And my personal favourite at the moment: Cap injectors Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
dazedandconfused	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:01:00 - [36] Ok, Whiner, you want my thoughts? fine. :P Stay out of nos range. Nerfing the drone bay idea isn't so hot, really. It is a drone ship and thus I think messing with its core strength to solve the nos "problem" is silly. The nos Domi is very powerful indeed, but it isnt invincible. I don't see the point of nerfing it because it is good. It is hardly nerf worthy. It just takes a different method of fighting to kill it. A small gang of ships should easily be able to kill one ship, Obviously you're doing something wrong. Do you have someone who can jam? One cannot be nos'd if the nosser is jammed. Plus I know of a lot of nos domi pilots who depend on their nos to keep their tank going. Jamming is really the way to go. If you can't find someone to do that, then you might as well be blown up every time :P. Fighting fire with fire is also an option. I hear injectors work great vs nos too. Ultimately you might have to gasp fight differently than you normally do. I hope this helps.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:24:00 - [37] Edited by: Butter Dog on 30/03/2006 15:26:45 Originally by: Jon Xylur If I remember correctly, there are more than 3 times more Ravens than Domis out there. Infact, there are allmsot as much Ravens than all other BSs combined. So don't whine about the amount of Domis. Thank you. And there we have it. Quite frankly the Raven is a much easier ship for new players to use than the Domi. You need top-end drone, fitting, and tanking skills to use the Domi to anything near effectiveness and even then you will struggle with a really good fitting. Its a complete myth that a dominix can fit 6 heavy nos and a really good armour tank with worthwhile mid slots. More like 3 heavy nos and 3 medium unless you compromise your tank with RCU. Even then the Dominix is ONLY effective at extreme close range. ------------------ The ISS Navy is recruiting. See this thread for further details. www.eve-iss.com
Semkhet	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Jim'ard Stone Edited by: Jim''ard Stone on 30/03/2006 12:03:32 So many players are using them and the skill req's to be good in a nos domi is pretty low. it always generally, ew, 3-6 nos, heavy armour tank and a generous amount of tackle gear. its so common now that most ive spoke to just refuse to engage them in small ops. I feel something does need to be done. Your thoughts? And yes im whining but thats what this forum sections about so go troll elsewhere. Hmmm perhaps a 175m3 drone bay, it has the bonus it doesnt need 3 reforcements of heavies, least small gangs could pick of the drones before it dominate your gang. Hooo... Poor little thing And what ? 1 million sp to use a Domi ? You know what genius, why don't you go to play tic tac toe ? I'am sure it will represent a challenge for you
Sun Ra	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:44:00 - [39] I posted THIS yesterday, almost 1200 dps is just sick Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas'
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Yarek Balear Yeah, I'm also sick of Megapulse Geddons, Railthrons, Blastathrons, Tachy-Apocs etc etc etc.... Oh wait - that means not everyone is in a Domi Yeesh. You didn't list a Raven in there?
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:48:00 - [41] Originally by: Sun Ra I posted THIS yesterday, almost 1200 dps is just sick I like how you gave the megathron 1 damage mod and then the dominix three. Can you give me the entire setups used for these graphs? Because some are going to be moe sueful at that range than others and some are going to tank more. Raw damage is completely subjective. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Xori Ruscuv	Posted - 2006.03.30 15:49:00 - [42] Originally by: Twilight Moon Theres a lovely video on the Video part of these forums showing a Blasterthorn wiping the floor of a Domi. Somewhere. Yeah - Marko Debreault's latest vid.
Funboy	Posted - 2006.03.30 16:55:00 - [43] Originally by: Jon Xylur If I remember correctly, there are more than 3 times more Ravens than Domis out there. Infact, there are allmsot as much Ravens than all other BSs combined. So don't whine about the amount of Domis. Yeh but they're all doing lvl 4 missions
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:00:00 - [44] Originally by: Nyphur Here is a list of counters for the Nos dominix: ECM + sensor boosters for a faster lock time then them; Sensor Dampeners + sensor boosters; Fit some nos; Sniping; Bring more than one person; And my personal favourite at the moment: Cap injectors My personal favorite is ultra low cap use via passive tanking, projectiles, and missiles. :p
Ras Blumin	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:19:00 - [45] Lets base all balance on the use of faction mods and racial jammers. A dirty job - Released 2006.01.02
LUKEC	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:19:00 - [46] vampadomi is not overpowered... ECM is. If you nerf jamming i can laugh at any vampire setup apart from 5x heavy neut apoc Originally by: Commander Nikolas People like Lukec are the problem and they know it. Shin Ra's Raven has 4x WCS, Lukec's Dominix has 5x WCS & Ishtar has 2x WCS. Antipiracy is causing brain damage
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:41:00 - [47] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 30/03/2006 17:43:14 Originally by: Nyphur Here is a list of counters for the Nos dominix: ECM + sensor boosters for a faster lock time then them; Sensor Dampeners + sensor boosters; Fit some nos; Sniping; Bring more than one person; And my personal favourite at the moment: Cap injectors ... the issue with balance is never that something can't be countered. That would be so imbalanced we can reasonably believe it would have disappeared already. It's the lack of versatility of the counters to some setups/mods that creates imbalances. And the very reason why people use versatile setups, often based on versatile mods (though not always), is that those mods (as Lapalisse would have said) counter many setups, requiring specialized setups to counter them. ECM counter anything that requires a lock, nos counters anything that requires cap. Those mods are so often used as the reason why some things can't be balanced because they work so well, and they have to work well because they have to counter setups/mods using a lock and cap. And, what do we end up with ? Setups that can counter almost anything (and thus, require very specific setups to beat, or the same kind of setups, or overwhelming odds) because they use those mods that are both necessary to counter other overpowered mods, and also overpowered because they can do so many things. There's a lack of options to counter many mods/setups in many situations and therefore some mods are too versatile, and it goes badly when the same setup uses them all. So, as far as the counters you propose are concerned. You suggest to use ECM with a faster lock, which is something they can adapt to and is basically bringing more of the same (which is not what balance is for). Sensor dampeners are of the same breed. Fitting more nos is once again more of the same. Sniping doesn't work, as staying out of range, simply because in EVE you need to scamble and that can only be in... scrambling range, which is heavy nos range. Bring more people is always the sign of an imbalance. In RL, the best tactic is the tactic that requires people to invest (way) more resources than you to beat you. In EVE, or in any game for that matter, that's the very definition of something that is overpowered. And that's why this counter sucks. As for the cap injector, you will feed the cap of the dominix, which means that you can only kill him if you outdamage his sustained tank... and I believe you know which kind of damage you need to do to do that, don't you... So, in the end, nos-domi can be countered, dominix is fine, it just uses mods that are far too powerful for their versatility (we should have average effectiveness*versatility = constant accross options and that's not what we have). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
Prestis	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:53:00 - [48] Yes, they combine three of the most over-boosted or under-nerfed things in EVE - drones, EW and NOS.
Goberth Ludwig	Posted - 2006.03.30 17:56:00 - [49] omg why did ccp make the cap injector? oh noes - Gob (my nubie attempt at a forum sig, bare with me plz :p)
AnxietyAttack	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:04:00 - [50] 1M SP to pwn other bs, your having a laugh yeah. Without the support skills and drone skills etc, what exactly do you plan to do. Ffs, enough whining on this matter, domi is a foerce ship with good skills and can give most ships a badtime within 25km ( named H nos), but it is very specialised and there are ways to beat it, stop whining and adapt to the game ffs Kiss it
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:11:00 - [51] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Its a no-brainer setup that works in pretty much any close range situation where you aren't jammed. Close range being anything under 20k, which is where most fights happen. The ship itself doesn't have the grid to support a good rack of turrets, and has pitiful cap which makes it worthless at tanking without Nos, injector (which also eats grid) or both. In the end theres nothing wrong with using that setup, its the Nosferatu that are blatantly overpowered. Giving them signature resolution would fix that right up. I also think medium/heavy drone signature resolutions aren't as bad as they should be. ;/ Very insightful of you, especially pointing out that the Dominix has some serious setbacks. Other people should take note. However, I must say that the problem with smaller nosferatus against interceptors and similar isn't as much nosferatu amount as nosferatu range. If the signature resolution is changed that a heavy nosferatu leech as much energy per second as a small nosferatu, then it is still a valid defence mechanism for battleships against smaller ships. Such mechanisms are needed, and this from someone who is otherwise protective of frigates (and similar sized ships) in combat. On the drone comment, however, I must say that the signature resolution isn't the issue. Even if heavy drones were to be given a 400 (current is 125) meter resolution, they would still serve as good interceptor killers. The reason is that interceptors move (duh). An interceptor can't be hit by a large drone if it (the interceptor) sit still. Right now. Originally by: KilROCK Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool. Pod yourself till you got no skills.[
dalman	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Sun Ra I posted THIS yesterday, almost 1200 dps is just sick That's pretty much what I used to fly with. Before the tanking changes. Cause now you're way short on powergrid. At that time I used a couple of 1600 plates (no repper at all) and a medium capinjector only (instead of repairer + heavy injector that would be 'needed' now). I'd love to fly something similiar now, but the too small grid forces me towards 'mainstream setups'. Am I forced to have any regret? I've become the lie, beautiful and free In my righteous own mind I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me
seeyouauntie	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Jim'ard Stone Originally by: Asnar solution it aint a solution. Just give you a chance of escaping like wcs. which id prefer Or, you could you know, not run from a fight. Jam a Domi, and the nos aren't a problem anymore. ---------------------------------- I <3 mining.
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:34:00 - [54] Originally by: Asnar solution uh... you have to fit a module (at LEAST one) which counters only 1/4 of ships to deal with one setup which is highly effective against everything? in other words, a general setup which cannot be defeated by anything but a specialised setup? sounds wrong? sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.03.30 18:34:00 - [55] To reiterate for people who don't seem to grasp the concept of pvp. Killing someone requires you to hold them in place, preventing them from warping off to safety. Okay? That means 20km or less for most pvp to scramble a target. That just so happens to be where Heavy Nosferatus work best. Thats fine. Here is the problem: they work against everything, ignoring size and speed. They're the only weapons in EVE which don't follow class based rules. You figure out why thats bad. Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Malka Badi'a	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:32:00 - [56] Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 30/03/2006 19:33:22 Quote: They're the only weapons in EVE which don't follow class based rules. Smartbombs don't care about class. Sensor dampeners don't care about class, just default range of the target. ECM isn't class-based but is sensor strength based which can vary per class size or ECCM modules. Nos remain effective so long as the target is within range and has cap to give you. Smartbombs remain effective so long as the target is within range and you have cap. Sensor dampeners remain effective so long as the target is within range. ECM jammers remain effective so long as the target is within range and you roll a high dice. Compare that to: Railguns remain effective so long as the target is within range and isn't moving faster than the guns can track. Missiles remain effective so long as the target is within range and isn't moving faster than the explosion radius. Digi, I think saying NOS are the only weapons that do not follow class-size is forgetting a plethora of other modules. A nos out of range is a dead nos, just like guns. A nos on a target that is already empty on cap returns no cap for you, worthless just like when a target ship is moving too fast to track. Quote: in other words, a general setup which cannot be defeated by anything but a specialised setup? sounds wrong? Sounds right to me. A generalized setup meant to engage multiple different situations versus a specialized setup meant to engage a special, specific situation. --------------
Samirol	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:38:00 - [57] Originally by: Kinsy I fail to see the problem...They can still be jammed, and you can just plain outgun em, I've popped a few in a geddon with 3-4 NOS before they were able to drain me dry. And to all those who think Domi cant do damage, go watch some jamesw vids and check his setup. 6 Dual 250's Shield stuff, Cap Booster, tackle 5 damage mods and 2 wcs or 7 pre-nerf. Nowadays you can swop the damagemods for PDU's and switch to 350's if you want. Couple that with t2 drones and you've got one of the highest dps ships in the game. is 5 dmg mods worth all that much? i split 3 dmg, 3 tracking, and 2 bonus slots The ISSN is recruiting
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:41:00 - [58] Originally by: Samirol Originally by: Kinsy I fail to see the problem...They can still be jammed, and you can just plain outgun em, I've popped a few in a geddon with 3-4 NOS before they were able to drain me dry. And to all those who think Domi cant do damage, go watch some jamesw vids and check his setup. 6 Dual 250's Shield stuff, Cap Booster, tackle 5 damage mods and 2 wcs or 7 pre-nerf. Nowadays you can swop the damagemods for PDU's and switch to 350's if you want. Couple that with t2 drones and you've got one of the highest dps ships in the game. is 5 dmg mods worth all that much? i split 3 dmg, 3 tracking, and 2 bonus slots Never fit five. Ever. They get their bonuses multipled as such: 1st - 1 2nd - 0.87 3rd - 0.57 4th - 0.28 5th - 0.11 6th - 0.03 7th - 0.01 8th - 0 (effectively) The 4th generally isn't worth it, the fifth is way out. Splitting 3/3 is perfect. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Zysco	Posted - 2006.03.30 19:46:00 - [59] Edited by: Zysco on 30/03/2006 19:46:29 Originally by: Kinsy Nowadays you can swop the damagemods for PDU's and switch to 350's if you want. Couple that with t2 drones and you've got one of the highest dps ships in the game. Sounds like a terrible setup 350s? Eww. Much better things to do with the free lows now. And the dps isnt all that great tbh, its definately not "one of the highest dps ships in the game." A blaserdomi tho... callon > I don't like traveling much, i think its cause my father used to beat me with a globe. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=300438New vid: "we're back
Jim'ard Stone	Posted - 2006.03.30 20:25:00 - [60] mostly why i cant be assed posting always get 15 year old smackers telling me to stop whining and f off etc, this is a ships and modules disscusion thread i dun see why i cant ask for constructive comments back. Its ment for moaning "this mod dun work, that ships borked" etc etc but theres always one user saying "OMFGWTF UR LAM0r gEt LIFe!" rediculous some people..

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